Hi list!
To avoid confusion in cross-posting, forgetting about that,
splitted discussions among 3 different mailing lists, breading
new lists (see Anthere's lengthy post beneath),
I've got a proposition:
Let's make _only one_ mailing list called
of course wikipedia-l@wikipedia.org
Every message to be sent would be tagged by supplying
the header [Wikitech-l] and/or [Intlwiki-l] or other
in the first line of the post or in the subject field.
Daemon at the mailing list server would decide
(is it possible?) to who sent the fresh post it has just
received. It would be based on information which every
subscriber would enter during subscription process,
like marking check-boxes
"Please deliver me technical issues",
that is current [Wikitech-l]
"Please inform me about international issues",
that is [Intlwiki-l]
"Please inform me about xx language Wikipedia issues",
that is eg. [xxwiki-l]
You might ask, what to do with those who forget to enter
desired [...] tags (especially unexperienced users will do
this permanently).
One could be asked during subscription process
on what Wikipedia he/she spends the most of his/her time.
Then the daemon would sent his/her untagged message
like it was sent with respective tag
(as it would be the most probable target).
What to do when you forget to put one more extra [] tag?
Sent a blank message with only one line:
repost-last [tag1] [tag2] etc. Daemon would send to the respective
remaining subscribers - that way only once to every address!
(developers, does it sound too stupid?)
The remaining question is: how can I be informed about important
issues when I'm not subscribed to receive them?
(Sounds like more general question of communication issues, eh?)
Maybe through subscribing to messages containing selected
words or regexs + tagging messages with those keywords
like [Spanish], [Main_Page], [unification] etc. Don't know.
But definitely the proposed solution would be a step
to make the process of communication less upsetting
for multi-subscribers and towards unification of Wikipedias.
BTW, please, cross-post it to the Wikipedia-l ;-)
I conscioussly decided to receive less messages
than others do.
User:Youandme
On 17 Oct 2002 at 3:41, Anthere wrote:
>
> Hi everybody,
> I dunno about you all, but I am getting overly confused between all the different points discussed
> at the same time, url adresses, contents of a page we have not agreed to exist, common
> recentchanges, common servers or not, auto-redirection or not, cookies or not, common meta ...
> It's nice that so many ideas are proposed, but it's really getting confusing. Maybe even more to
> non-english speaking, and certainly for those not following all lists thoroughly.
> Another thing adding to the confusion is that *mailing list(s) matter*. I think that could be a point
> to start with, and one on which we could maybe easily agree on, which would be nice for a
> change.
> I already stated a couple of time, there was a problem with the definition of the mainlist and the
> interlist.
> 1)The main list is both used for internal english matters AND integrated wikipedia matters
> 2 The inter list was initially set up to take care of matters dealing with creating and organising
> inter wiki
> A side effect of 1) is that some en.wiki editors tend to generalize typical english matters to the
> rest of the wikipedias.
> A side effect of 1) is that all inter that want to be involved in the decision process have to register
> the main list. Thus making the inter list useless.
> A side effect of 2) is that new inter comers tend to believe they can post messages to the inter
> list, and trust the information there is complete. Both points being clearly untrue (especially since
> we sometimes forget to double post, on one, or on the other list)
> Other side effects are multiple cross posting between the two lists, implying
> - additional posting time (specially when we forget the cc)
> - additional reading time to check the message is the same
> - additional time for deletion
> - cluttering of the mail box
> - incomplete information for those who are not registered at *both* lists
> My belief is that we need to set up that issue.
> Ideally, I think there should be:
> 1) A "main" list, dealing with integrated issues (I don't know the best word to say that, I don't want
> to mean integration, I want to say issues important to the enlarged community)
> 2) Plenty of language-specific lists, among which the english list, to deal with naming
> conventions and majuscule/minuscule typo conventions. Lists only to be set up if there is a need
> and a demand of course.
> In concrete terms, for example
> Option1: either a new list (a "metalist") is created, and the mainlist deals with english matters
> (the inconvenience of that option will be that most people would continue nevertheless to post
> everything at the main list)
> Option2: the interlist really becomes the integrated list and the mainlist stays only for en.issues
> (that option could maybe be accompanied by an automatic registering process for english not yet
> on the interlist; but again, I fear lazyness will prevent this process, and posting will stay on the
> main list anyway; also, this might become a diplomatic issue to some)
> Option3: the main list becomes the main list (metalist), and a new en.list is created for english
> issues (is that possible that all users of the main list are automatically registered to that en.list,
> and an automatic message send for easy unsuscribing for those not interested to stay on it? it
> would make the switching process less labourious...)
> The 3rd process could be nearly transparent for english users, as most of the time, people reply
> to messages, so it won't change habits much. They will be registered to two lists, but ain't that
> the case of many already ?
> This option would help avoiding cross posting and information loss. It would save time. It would
> avoid mailbox cluttering. It will also make clearer that setting up an integrated encyclopedia is a
> one of the goals; not helping side projects to develop.
>
> A conceptual point is also bothering me, but I admit I have no idea to prevent that right now.
> That is the word "international" to be opposed to the english-speaking_main_wikipedia.
> It is just the same than the words "importation" and "exportation"; just depends on your own
> position.
> International has a smell of countries. While english versus non-english just have a smell of
> language. I like that option better.
> Just my thoughts. Sorry if it was too long and laborious task to read. But I think it important that
> somehow, one day, this mailing list issues are dealt with.
> Anthere
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nie tylko dla bogaczy... pogoda! >>> http://link.interia.pl/f166e
To avoid confusion in cross-posting, forgetting about that,
splitted discussions among 3 different mailing lists, breading
new lists (see Anthere's lengthy post beneath),
I've got a proposition:
Let's make _only one_ mailing list called
of course wikipedia-l@wikipedia.org
Every message to be sent would be tagged by supplying
the header [Wikitech-l] and/or [Intlwiki-l] or other
in the first line of the post or in the subject field.
Daemon at the mailing list server would decide
(is it possible?) to who sent the fresh post it has just
received. It would be based on information which every
subscriber would enter during subscription process,
like marking check-boxes
"Please deliver me technical issues",
that is current [Wikitech-l]
"Please inform me about international issues",
that is [Intlwiki-l]
"Please inform me about xx language Wikipedia issues",
that is eg. [xxwiki-l]
You might ask, what to do with those who forget to enter
desired [...] tags (especially unexperienced users will do
this permanently).
One could be asked during subscription process
on what Wikipedia he/she spends the most of his/her time.
Then the daemon would sent his/her untagged message
like it was sent with respective tag
(as it would be the most probable target).
What to do when you forget to put one more extra [] tag?
Sent a blank message with only one line:
repost-last [tag1] [tag2] etc. Daemon would send to the respective
remaining subscribers - that way only once to every address!
(developers, does it sound too stupid?)
The remaining question is: how can I be informed about important
issues when I'm not subscribed to receive them?
(Sounds like more general question of communication issues, eh?)
Maybe through subscribing to messages containing selected
words or regexs + tagging messages with those keywords
like [Spanish], [Main_Page], [unification] etc. Don't know.
But definitely the proposed solution would be a step
to make the process of communication less upsetting
for multi-subscribers and towards unification of Wikipedias.
BTW, please, cross-post it to the Wikipedia-l ;-)
I conscioussly decided to receive less messages
than others do.
User:Youandme
On 17 Oct 2002 at 3:41, Anthere wrote:
>
> Hi everybody,
> I dunno about you all, but I am getting overly confused between all the different points discussed
> at the same time, url adresses, contents of a page we have not agreed to exist, common
> recentchanges, common servers or not, auto-redirection or not, cookies or not, common meta ...
> It's nice that so many ideas are proposed, but it's really getting confusing. Maybe even more to
> non-english speaking, and certainly for those not following all lists thoroughly.
> Another thing adding to the confusion is that *mailing list(s) matter*. I think that could be a point
> to start with, and one on which we could maybe easily agree on, which would be nice for a
> change.
> I already stated a couple of time, there was a problem with the definition of the mainlist and the
> interlist.
> 1)The main list is both used for internal english matters AND integrated wikipedia matters
> 2 The inter list was initially set up to take care of matters dealing with creating and organising
> inter wiki
> A side effect of 1) is that some en.wiki editors tend to generalize typical english matters to the
> rest of the wikipedias.
> A side effect of 1) is that all inter that want to be involved in the decision process have to register
> the main list. Thus making the inter list useless.
> A side effect of 2) is that new inter comers tend to believe they can post messages to the inter
> list, and trust the information there is complete. Both points being clearly untrue (especially since
> we sometimes forget to double post, on one, or on the other list)
> Other side effects are multiple cross posting between the two lists, implying
> - additional posting time (specially when we forget the cc)
> - additional reading time to check the message is the same
> - additional time for deletion
> - cluttering of the mail box
> - incomplete information for those who are not registered at *both* lists
> My belief is that we need to set up that issue.
> Ideally, I think there should be:
> 1) A "main" list, dealing with integrated issues (I don't know the best word to say that, I don't want
> to mean integration, I want to say issues important to the enlarged community)
> 2) Plenty of language-specific lists, among which the english list, to deal with naming
> conventions and majuscule/minuscule typo conventions. Lists only to be set up if there is a need
> and a demand of course.
> In concrete terms, for example
> Option1: either a new list (a "metalist") is created, and the mainlist deals with english matters
> (the inconvenience of that option will be that most people would continue nevertheless to post
> everything at the main list)
> Option2: the interlist really becomes the integrated list and the mainlist stays only for en.issues
> (that option could maybe be accompanied by an automatic registering process for english not yet
> on the interlist; but again, I fear lazyness will prevent this process, and posting will stay on the
> main list anyway; also, this might become a diplomatic issue to some)
> Option3: the main list becomes the main list (metalist), and a new en.list is created for english
> issues (is that possible that all users of the main list are automatically registered to that en.list,
> and an automatic message send for easy unsuscribing for those not interested to stay on it? it
> would make the switching process less labourious...)
> The 3rd process could be nearly transparent for english users, as most of the time, people reply
> to messages, so it won't change habits much. They will be registered to two lists, but ain't that
> the case of many already ?
> This option would help avoiding cross posting and information loss. It would save time. It would
> avoid mailbox cluttering. It will also make clearer that setting up an integrated encyclopedia is a
> one of the goals; not helping side projects to develop.
>
> A conceptual point is also bothering me, but I admit I have no idea to prevent that right now.
> That is the word "international" to be opposed to the english-speaking_main_wikipedia.
> It is just the same than the words "importation" and "exportation"; just depends on your own
> position.
> International has a smell of countries. While english versus non-english just have a smell of
> language. I like that option better.
> Just my thoughts. Sorry if it was too long and laborious task to read. But I think it important that
> somehow, one day, this mailing list issues are dealt with.
> Anthere
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Nie tylko dla bogaczy... pogoda! >>> http://link.interia.pl/f166e