Mailing List Archive

Hi all,

I’ve been on this list since 2012 (Wikimania Hongkong) and I rarely comment,
but I’ll make a exception. When I saw the first email from Mina, I had a
hard time assuming good faith - it reproduced anti-trans talking points which
are, for the most part, hypothetical, with few or no actual instances of such
behaviour reported. This initial impression has now hardened into near-certainty
after the longish Kulturkampf style posting this morning.

I don’t think the concrete problem brought up is significant (as we all know,
by far the most sexual harassment happens in families and among acquaintances,
followed by the workplace). Harassment by openly trans people in public places
is a non-problem.

I also don’t think this list is a suitable place to discuss the larger topic
of Science-based medicine, book reviews, and NPOV on Wikipedia.

Have a great Wikimania!

Bye,

Stephan

> On 29. Jun 2023, at 14:37, zinkloss@gmail.com wrote:
>
> In the light of the posts by Mina Theofilatou, could the list admins take action to either ban the use of this list by Mina or moderate all future posts in line with the UCoC and TCoC?
>
> The facts are that in these posts:
> 24 June:
> Mina presented as a "valid concern" for Wikimania that there have been incidents of trans women harassing women at events. This promotes that myth that trans women are more dangerous than anyone else.
> 29 June:
> Mina promoted the myth that there is a "era of self-identification", where trans women might "exits the bathroom stall with his penis in his hand" which spreads fear of trans women and attempts to normalize the idea that trans women are exposing penises - and it's normal to call trans women men, so it's normal to misgender trans women if you feel like it.
> Mina attacked trans men using myths about fear of their menstruating. Mina derided the idea of respecting trans people by presenting her clearly transphobic views as self-evident "common decency", therefore making everyone genuinely respectful of LGBTQIA inclusion outside of common decency.
>
> Hopefully after these long confessional emails from Mina, no Wikimedia funded events will be hosting Mina or her unnamed friend who is irrationally frightened of trans women. This would be perfectly in
> line with Wikimedia event and Wikimania safe space policies. I recommend we also remove this email list platform as a way for Mina to permanently publish and promote transphobic myths.
>
> As a reminder, persistently avoiding calling trans women "trans women" or trans men "trans men" by using peculiar terms like AMAB, AFAB, MTF, born male, "males who identify as women", is itself an expression of transphobia. It is a sure sign that someone has spent far too long on anti-LGBTQ forums.
>
> Reference
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org/thread/5LQ26JNUNC5ROWJ42MYVWWLCSSBQ5WHG
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> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

--
------------------------------ It can be done! ---------------------------------
Please email me as schulz@eprover.org (Stephan Schulz)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Speaking as a Singaporean, I just want to add that, unfortunately, Singapore isn't LGBT-friendly, but as far as I'm concerned, as raised by the organisers, that the venue held will be a safe space for the LGBT community and there will be respective accommodations for all attending. And I doubt the organizers should tolerate such transphobia or any form of queerphobia at such events.
_______________________________________________
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To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

As with most societies, there will always be segments of populations adverse to LGBT. Zhenkanglai writes that "Singapore isn't LGBT-friendly". I will colour this further: The LGBT movement has come a long way in Singapore. While Singapore authorities did take actions against LGBT in the past, in the recent years, it has been largely tolerant of the LGBT population here. The establishment of the annual Pinkdot[1] event since 2009 is an example of the tolerance, and as well as repealing of certain laws.[2] It has also been reported that local public universities are making their campuses safe spaces recently.[3]

Will Wikimania participants feel any of the LGBT-unfriendliness? Hard to say. I certainly hope not. Singapore has been a host to many visitors, be it tourists, or foreigners working, studying here, seeking medical treatment on a long-term basis. If there were such unfriendliness, there may be news of this spreading, be it in the mainstream media or in the social media (where such matters can turn viral pretty fast).

With regards to the arrangement of the toilets at the venue, us organisers are certainly aware of the sensitivities and will make the arrangements clear in subsequent briefings of the event closer to August.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Dot_SG
[2]: https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/s377a-officially-repealed-as-president-assents-to-changes-to-legislation
[3]: https://www.channelnewsasia.com/cna-insider/transgender-students-safe-space-university-halls-dorms-gender-neutral-toilets-campus-housing-policy-2752946

Robertsky
A Singaporean on the Wikimania 2023 COT

________________________________
From: zhenkanglai@gmail.com <zhenkanglai@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, June 29, 2023 9:07 PM
To: wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: [Wikimania-l] Re: Use of this email list for anti-LGBTQ myths

Speaking as a Singaporean, I just want to add that, unfortunately, Singapore isn't LGBT-friendly, but as far as I'm concerned, as raised by the organisers, that the venue held will be a safe space for the LGBT community and there will be respective accommodations for all attending. And I doubt the organizers should tolerate such transphobia or any form of queerphobia at such events.
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org

Yeah I apologise for oversimplifying. But yeah, LGBT people are generally
safe and welcome here

On Thu, 29 Jun 2023, 22:02 Robert Sim, <contact@robertsky.com> wrote:

> As with most societies, there will always be segments of populations
> adverse to LGBT. Zhenkanglai writes that "Singapore isn't LGBT-friendly". I
> will colour this further: The LGBT movement has come a long way in
> Singapore. While Singapore authorities did take actions against LGBT in the
> past, in the recent years, it has been largely tolerant of the LGBT
> population here. The establishment of the annual Pinkdot[1] event since
> 2009 is an example of the tolerance, and as well as repealing of certain
> laws.[2] It has also been reported that local public universities are
> making their campuses safe spaces recently.[3]
>
> Will Wikimania participants feel any of the LGBT-unfriendliness? Hard to
> say. I certainly hope not. Singapore has been a host to many visitors, be
> it tourists, or foreigners working, studying here, seeking medical
> treatment on a long-term basis. If there were such unfriendliness, there
> may be news of this spreading, be it in the mainstream media or in the
> social media (where such matters can turn viral pretty fast).
>
> With regards to the arrangement of the toilets at the venue, us organisers
> are certainly aware of the sensitivities and will make the arrangements
> clear in subsequent briefings of the event closer to August.
>
> [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_Dot_SG
> [2]:
> https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/s377a-officially-repealed-as-president-assents-to-changes-to-legislation
> [3]:
> https://www.channelnewsasia.com/cna-insider/transgender-students-safe-space-university-halls-dorms-gender-neutral-toilets-campus-housing-policy-2752946
>
> Robertsky
> A Singaporean on the Wikimania 2023 COT
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* zhenkanglai@gmail.com <zhenkanglai@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, June 29, 2023 9:07 PM
> *To:* wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org <wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> *Subject:* [Wikimania-l] Re: Use of this email list for anti-LGBTQ myths
>
> Speaking as a Singaporean, I just want to add that, unfortunately,
> Singapore isn't LGBT-friendly, but as far as I'm concerned, as raised by
> the organisers, that the venue held will be a safe space for the LGBT
> community and there will be respective accommodations for all attending.
> And I doubt the organizers should tolerate such transphobia or any form of
> queerphobia at such events.
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list -- wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimania-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>