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Cary Bass wrote:
> I believe that bringing up the dates for Wikimania 2009 was advantageous
> for several reasons; the first being that it allows a specific 2009 team
> to learn from the 2008 conference.

Absolutely. This was the subject of an informal post-mortem after
Wikimania Boston, and I'm happy to see that we have gone this way.

> The question now is whether bidding
> for 2010 should take place in the fall, shortly after Wikimania 2008, to
> take advantage of the momentum generated by the current conference,
> while the event is still fresh in people's heads; or should we wait
> until the beginning of 2009, like we did this year with Wikimania 2009.
>

Doing this in the fall should be just fine. Remember that in the past
year both 2008 and 2009 had to be allocated on a catch-up basis. Now we
go back to one decision per year. There is an advantage to an early
start in that it allows the new city to put together and fund the team
members who will be at the preceding Wikimania.

No matter when the decision is made, there will always be
procrastinators who wait for the last minute to make their submissions
anyway.

> I'm sure this will be somewhat of a discussion during this year's event.
> ~ I'd also like to involve as wide a representation of the community at
> large in the process; this is why I'm sending this email out now, while
> Wikimania is on people's minds.
>
>
Ec.

PS: re Buenos Aires: The site still shows a "proposed" date of August
28-30. Has this been firmed up? My reason for asking is that my wife
has agreed to come with me to Buenos Aires, and she wants to slot in her
vacation time at work before someone else claims that spot.

Ray

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Ray,


>PS: re Buenos Aires: The site still shows a "proposed" date of August
>28-30. Has this been firmed up? My reason for asking is that my wife
>has agreed to come with me to Buenos Aires, and she wants to slot in her
>vacation time at work before someone else claims that spot.

It is not set in stone yet, but the venue is reserved and confirmed for that
whole week.

Barcex

2008/7/11, Cary Bass <cbass@wikimedia.org>:

> I believe that bringing up the dates for Wikimania 2009 was advantageous
> for several reasons; the first being that it allows a specific 2009 team
> to learn from the 2008 conference. The question now is whether bidding
> for 2010 should take place in the fall, shortly after Wikimania 2008, to
> take advantage of the momentum generated by the current conference,
> while the event is still fresh in people's heads; or should we wait
> until the beginning of 2009, like we did this year with Wikimania 2009.
>
>
Just some comments. I think it is better to avoid terms like "fall" as
the world has a Northern and a Southern hemisphere. Instead it is better to
propose month ranges. Our experience as WM2009 bidding team was not always
pleasant because the bidding period went from December (Christmas) to the
end of February (Summer vacations in the Southern hemisphere). So I advice
to set a bidding period when both Northern and Southern hemispheres are not
on vacations. In my opinion, proper periods of the year could be:
September-November and March-June. I vote for September-November 2008
(three months) if the timeline is announced by the beginning of August.

Barcex

Barcex wrote:
> Ray,
>
> >PS: re Buenos Aires: The site still shows a "proposed" date of
> August
> >28-30. Has this been firmed up? My reason for asking is that my
> wife
> >has agreed to come with me to Buenos Aires, and she wants to slot
> in her
> >vacation time at work before someone else claims that spot.
>
> It is not set in stone yet, but the venue is reserved and confirmed
> for that whole week.
>

Thank you. So if she sets her vacation for the two weeks beginning
August 23 she should be safe?

Ray

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Hi Cary,

thanks for bringing this up. I agree definitely that bringing the
dates afront is a good thing, even though not all potential has been
used yet. However, I also see some disadvantages of bringing the dates
forth too much. The main argument here is the loose of momentum
*after* the bidding process. Momentum is important, and to start a
bidding process almost two years in advance is probably too much for
an organization of mainly volunteers where a lot of people don't know
what they will be doing in one year time even.

Being on a probably bidding team, I think having the bidding process
in october/november is not going to work well. We are already
orienting, and to make a good bid, we want to offer a sound financial
and organizational basis. However, this costs time, as easy as that.
This also requires internal approval within chapters if they
participate in the bidding process, which also takes time. It will be
very tough to find sufficient willing potential sponsors and
supportive organisations more then 1,5 year in advance of the
conference.

We did discuss this quite extensively already actually internally
(within the NL bidding team), and concluded that it would be nearly
impossible for us to compete if the bidding process would take place
this early in the year. Please also bear in mind that some chapters,
especially in Europe, are organizing their national conference in the
fall (this time that is an appropriate word to use ;-) ) of this year,
and since there is quite some overlap in the people, that would
potentially cause major problems.

So to conclude, please let's not rush things, and offer people from
all over the world to create a great bid, with a good basis.
Especially a bid that will after all also be able to be executed as
planned, which is harder if there is more rush in the creation of the
bid.

However, I would plea to make the bidding process somewhat longer.
Start somewhat earlier with it, and have larger spans. Let's try to
finish it in March, but already start it in November or December. This
would offer the best of both worlds I believe.

Also I believe that if a group of people wants to take the momentum
from this Wikimania, they will. With or without a short deadline.
People don't need a deadline to work on a bid.

Best regards,

Lodewijk Gelauff

ps: to be clear, I am active in Wikimedia Nederland, and working on a
Dutch bid for Wikimania 2010. I might be a bit biased with what
problems *we* think to encounter with an early deadline. :)

2008/7/11 Cary Bass <cbass@wikimedia.org>:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Whether it's those of you who are preparing to go to Alexandria and
> those of you who are going to get tired of hearing the stories from
> those of you that did, you probably didn't expect to see that as a
> subject line quite yet.
>
> However, I'm writing this email now, to allow an ample amount of time in
> advance of the bidding process to begin to set the dates. This is done
> for several reasons; not the least of which to allow those interested in
> bidding ample time for getting their bid ideas into place.
>
> I believe that bringing up the dates for Wikimania 2009 was advantageous
> for several reasons; the first being that it allows a specific 2009 team
> to learn from the 2008 conference. The question now is whether bidding
> for 2010 should take place in the fall, shortly after Wikimania 2008, to
> take advantage of the momentum generated by the current conference,
> while the event is still fresh in people's heads; or should we wait
> until the beginning of 2009, like we did this year with Wikimania 2009.
>
> I'm sure this will be somewhat of a discussion during this year's event.
> ~ I'd also like to involve as wide a representation of the community at
> large in the process; this is why I'm sending this email out now, while
> Wikimania is on people's minds.
>
> - --
> Cary Bass
> Volunteer Coordinator
>
> Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
> Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601
> Fax: 415.882.0495
>
> E-Mail: cary@wikimedia.org
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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Hey all!

Okay, I've created a draft page at
<http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/Draft_timeline>.
I'd love much feedback and input as well as collaboration (it *is* a
wiki!).

- --
Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator

Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601
Fax: 415.882.0495

E-Mail: cary@wikimedia.org
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Ehm? Did you decide on the timeline now? :S

Just for the record, is this a WMF decision, or just what we call in
Dutch a "proefballon", a little test to taste the reactions.

as explained in my previous email, I see barely advantages and a lot
of disadvantages. I sincerely hope this time schedule will not be
close to what it will be, especially not without a little more
rationale?

Best regards,

Lodewijk

2008/7/23, Cary Bass <cbass@wikimedia.org>:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hey all!
>
> Okay, I've created a draft page at
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2010/Bids/Draft_timeline>.
> I'd love much feedback and input as well as collaboration (it *is* a
> wiki!).
>
> - --
> Cary Bass
> Volunteer Coordinator
>
> Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
> Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601
> Fax: 415.882.0495
>
> E-Mail: cary@wikimedia.org
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> Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)
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> clAAoOP9XU8j1SxOLtDcXzGWluhtQTX3
> =dHE3
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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effe iets anders wrote:
| Ehm? Did you decide on the timeline now? :S
|
| Just for the record, is this a WMF decision, or just what we call in
| Dutch a "proefballon", a little test to taste the reactions.
|
| as explained in my previous email, I see barely advantages and a lot
| of disadvantages. I sincerely hope this time schedule will not be
| close to what it will be, especially not without a little more
| rationale?
|
| Best regards,
|
| Lodewijk
|

Perhaps you missed the page title "Draft Timeline". Or my comment, "It
*is* a wiki". That is, I anticipate much discussion and explanation as
well as consensus about the timelines. I believe Damien Finol has
already begun the talk page.

- --
Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator

Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601
Fax: 415.882.0495

E-Mail: cary@wikimedia.org
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I think this faster timeline could be OK, but only if there was more of an
independent WMF led drive for international sponsors going on at the same
time. This would take some of the pressure off individual candidate cities
to secure big sponsorship deals and remove a heck of a lot of duplicated
work. (Obviously expensive cities would still have to secure some level of
local sponsorship.) It would also enable bidding cities to be a lot more
concrete about their financial situation.

Tom

-----Original Message-----
From: wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org
[mailto:wikimania-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Cary Bass
Sent: 23 July 2008 16:59
To: effeietsanders@gmail.com; Wikimania general list (open subscription)
Subject: Re: [Wikimania-l] Wikimania 2010 bidding process

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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effe iets anders wrote:
| Ehm? Did you decide on the timeline now? :S
|
| Just for the record, is this a WMF decision, or just what we call in
| Dutch a "proefballon", a little test to taste the reactions.
|
| as explained in my previous email, I see barely advantages and a lot
| of disadvantages. I sincerely hope this time schedule will not be
| close to what it will be, especially not without a little more
| rationale?
|
| Best regards,
|
| Lodewijk
|

Perhaps you missed the page title "Draft Timeline". Or my comment, "It
*is* a wiki". That is, I anticipate much discussion and explanation as
well as consensus about the timelines. I believe Damien Finol has
already begun the talk page.

- --
Cary Bass
Volunteer Coordinator

Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601
Fax: 415.882.0495

E-Mail: cary@wikimedia.org
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Well, to be honest I think we first should think about the general
time schedule. Do we want to hurry or do we first want to reconsider
what kind or conference we want in the coming years and build the
wikimanias around that idea. It means a lot whether we want a very
unofficial conference or whether we want a more serious conference
which could for instance mean more possibilities for finding sponsors
and having a serious media look during the conference, more results
with respect to the main goals we have etc etc... I do know that at
least the program committee needs a huge evaluation (as soon as Jakob
and me are home, we will do that I guess) and I assume also other
teams want to do that, before we would do a wikimania wide evaluation,
and draw results from that.

So a few big questions ahead, which can very much influence the choice
of the city. Personally I'd not want to rush anything until we know
that.

On the page you created, which is of course a draft, it has been
assumed almost that we choose the early schedule, even though it is
still a draft (you could also make changes there, and still call it a
draft, even though the main window has been set).

I sincerely hope we can have an open discussion *first* on whether we
need evaluation, together with local team, committees, WMF etc, and
then see how long we need for that to draw conclusions etc.

Best regards,

Lodewijk

2008/7/23 Cary Bass <cbass@wikimedia.org>:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> effe iets anders wrote:
> | Ehm? Did you decide on the timeline now? :S
> |
> | Just for the record, is this a WMF decision, or just what we call in
> | Dutch a "proefballon", a little test to taste the reactions.
> |
> | as explained in my previous email, I see barely advantages and a lot
> | of disadvantages. I sincerely hope this time schedule will not be
> | close to what it will be, especially not without a little more
> | rationale?
> |
> | Best regards,
> |
> | Lodewijk
> |
>
> Perhaps you missed the page title "Draft Timeline". Or my comment, "It
> *is* a wiki". That is, I anticipate much discussion and explanation as
> well as consensus about the timelines. I believe Damien Finol has
> already begun the talk page.
>
> - --
> Cary Bass
> Volunteer Coordinator
>
> Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
> Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601
> Fax: 415.882.0495
>
> E-Mail: cary@wikimedia.org
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iEYEARECAAYFAkiHVT8ACgkQyQg4JSymDYlQiwCgsqYx4nZ09ZLuQUugDxAyhYPs
> gG0AnigfNDgDp6K11WEdhN2JmeJFK35y
> =cyKm
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>

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On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:44 AM, effe iets anders
<effeietsanders@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, to be honest I think we first should think about the general
> time schedule. Do we want to hurry or do we first want to reconsider
> what kind or conference we want in the coming years and build the
> wikimanias around that idea. It means a lot whether we want a very
> unofficial conference or whether we want a more serious conference
> which could for instance mean more possibilities for finding sponsors
> and having a serious media look during the conference, more results
> with respect to the main goals we have etc etc... I do know that at
> least the program committee needs a huge evaluation (as soon as Jakob
> and me are home, we will do that I guess) and I assume also other
> teams want to do that, before we would do a wikimania wide evaluation,
> and draw results from that.
>
> So a few big questions ahead, which can very much influence the choice
> of the city. Personally I'd not want to rush anything until we know
> that.
>
> On the page you created, which is of course a draft, it has been
> assumed almost that we choose the early schedule, even though it is
> still a draft (you could also make changes there, and still call it a
> draft, even though the main window has been set).
>
> I sincerely hope we can have an open discussion *first* on whether we
> need evaluation, together with local team, committees, WMF etc, and
> then see how long we need for that to draw conclusions etc.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lodewijk
>

Discussions about this are being started. See -planning.

--
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Cbrown1023

---
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I prefer to have a longer post-mortem phase than rushing into the next
stage. I'm now in Singapore for transit and have given no many time to
input feedbacks I had gotten from Wikimania attendees. Some are just
complements, others improvement suggestions. I think one of important
parts of city bidding is to clarify the criteria and feedback from the
latest conference should be concerned in refining our current
criteria.

Best,

On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:44 PM, effe iets anders
<effeietsanders@gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, to be honest I think we first should think about the general
> time schedule. Do we want to hurry or do we first want to reconsider
> what kind or conference we want in the coming years and build the
> wikimanias around that idea. It means a lot whether we want a very
> unofficial conference or whether we want a more serious conference
> which could for instance mean more possibilities for finding sponsors
> and having a serious media look during the conference, more results
> with respect to the main goals we have etc etc... I do know that at
> least the program committee needs a huge evaluation (as soon as Jakob
> and me are home, we will do that I guess) and I assume also other
> teams want to do that, before we would do a wikimania wide evaluation,
> and draw results from that.
>
> So a few big questions ahead, which can very much influence the choice
> of the city. Personally I'd not want to rush anything until we know
> that.
>
> On the page you created, which is of course a draft, it has been
> assumed almost that we choose the early schedule, even though it is
> still a draft (you could also make changes there, and still call it a
> draft, even though the main window has been set).
>
> I sincerely hope we can have an open discussion *first* on whether we
> need evaluation, together with local team, committees, WMF etc, and
> then see how long we need for that to draw conclusions etc.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Lodewijk
>
> 2008/7/23 Cary Bass <cbass@wikimedia.org>:
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> effe iets anders wrote:
>> | Ehm? Did you decide on the timeline now? :S
>> |
>> | Just for the record, is this a WMF decision, or just what we call in
>> | Dutch a "proefballon", a little test to taste the reactions.
>> |
>> | as explained in my previous email, I see barely advantages and a lot
>> | of disadvantages. I sincerely hope this time schedule will not be
>> | close to what it will be, especially not without a little more
>> | rationale?
>> |
>> | Best regards,
>> |
>> | Lodewijk
>> |
>>
>> Perhaps you missed the page title "Draft Timeline". Or my comment, "It
>> *is* a wiki". That is, I anticipate much discussion and explanation as
>> well as consensus about the timelines. I believe Damien Finol has
>> already begun the talk page.
>>
>> - --
>> Cary Bass
>> Volunteer Coordinator
>>
>> Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
>> Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
>> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
>> Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601
>> Fax: 415.882.0495
>>
>> E-Mail: cary@wikimedia.org
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>> Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin)
>> Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>>
>> iEYEARECAAYFAkiHVT8ACgkQyQg4JSymDYlQiwCgsqYx4nZ09ZLuQUugDxAyhYPs
>> gG0AnigfNDgDp6K11WEdhN2JmeJFK35y
>> =cyKm
>> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>



--
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http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Britty (in Japanese)
Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD

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On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 3:50 AM, Aphaia <aphaia@gmail.com> wrote:

> I prefer to have a longer post-mortem phase than rushing into the next
> stage. I'm now in Singapore for transit and have given no many time to
> input feedbacks I had gotten from Wikimania attendees. Some are just
> complements, others improvement suggestions. I think one of important
> parts of city bidding is to clarify the criteria and feedback from the
> latest conference should be concerned in refining our current
> criteria.
>
> Best,
>

Well, the sooner we start, the longer it will last :-) Are the feedbacks
you received posted anywhere? Do people with feedback know about the
Comments page on the wikimania2008wiki?

I've also been thinking that we should have a more active collaboration
/about/ wikimania and related events, including long-term hosting for
presentations and project-ideas and workshop-results, on metawiki (and not
on a site dedicated to a specific year).

Discussions about wikimania's purpose, including annual post-mortems, might
best go there.

Until we work out where, recent discussions have been posted to the
wikimania2008 site:
http://wikimania2008.wikimedia.org/wiki/Post-mortem

Sharing in other languages the fact that there is a public post-mortem
discussion might be a good idea.

SJ



>
> On Thu, Jul 24, 2008 at 11:44 PM, effe iets anders
> <effeietsanders@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Well, to be honest I think we first should think about the general
> > time schedule. Do we want to hurry or do we first want to reconsider
> > what kind or conference we want in the coming years and build the
> > wikimanias around that idea. It means a lot whether we want a very
> > unofficial conference or whether we want a more serious conference
> > which could for instance mean more possibilities for finding sponsors
> > and having a serious media look during the conference, more results
> > with respect to the main goals we have etc etc... I do know that at
> > least the program committee needs a huge evaluation (as soon as Jakob
> > and me are home, we will do that I guess) and I assume also other
> > teams want to do that, before we would do a wikimania wide evaluation,
> > and draw results from that.
> >
> > So a few big questions ahead, which can very much influence the choice
> > of the city. Personally I'd not want to rush anything until we know
> > that.
> >
> > On the page you created, which is of course a draft, it has been
> > assumed almost that we choose the early schedule, even though it is
> > still a draft (you could also make changes there, and still call it a
> > draft, even though the main window has been set).
> >
> > I sincerely hope we can have an open discussion *first* on whether we
> > need evaluation, together with local team, committees, WMF etc, and
> > then see how long we need for that to draw conclusions etc.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Lodewijk
> >
> > 2008/7/23 Cary Bass <cbass@wikimedia.org>:
> >> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> >> Hash: SHA1
> >>
> >> effe iets anders wrote:
> >> | Ehm? Did you decide on the timeline now? :S
> >> |
> >> | Just for the record, is this a WMF decision, or just what we call in
> >> | Dutch a "proefballon", a little test to taste the reactions.
> >> |
> >> | as explained in my previous email, I see barely advantages and a lot
> >> | of disadvantages. I sincerely hope this time schedule will not be
> >> | close to what it will be, especially not without a little more
> >> | rationale?
> >> |
> >> | Best regards,
> >> |
> >> | Lodewijk
> >> |
> >>
> >> Perhaps you missed the page title "Draft Timeline". Or my comment, "It
> >> *is* a wiki". That is, I anticipate much discussion and explanation as
> >> well as consensus about the timelines. I believe Damien Finol has
> >> already begun the talk page.
> >>
> >> - --
> >> Cary Bass
> >> Volunteer Coordinator
> >>
> >> Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
> >> Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
> >> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> >> Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601
> >> Fax: 415.882.0495
> >>
> >> E-Mail: cary@wikimedia.org
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> >>
> >
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>
>
> --
> KIZU Naoko
> http://d.hatena.ne.jp/Britty (in Japanese)
> Quote of the Day (English): http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/WQ:QOTD
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