Mailing List Archive

I appreciate the honesty. Thank you.
I may have the chance to attend the wikimania, but this does lessens my
chances. Having delayed the arrangements may prove to be a wrong move.
Ticket fares go up as the date of the flight approaches.
Regardless if I attend Wikimania 2008, I wish everyone a great meeting, and
I hope to see you all in Wikimania 2009 Buenos Aires ( which I'm going to
start planning as soon as possible).
Thank you and take care

Alberto Conrado

PS.- If a scholarship ommittee member has a little spare time, could they
mind telling us (particularly or generally) the reason that we were not
chosen? Thank you.

On Fri, Jun 6, 2008 at 7:14 PM, Cary Bass <cbass@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi all,
>
> This is a very difficult note to write, but I believe it's easiest to
> just write it and be done with it, rather than leaving people in suspense.
>
> If you haven't received a scholarship letter by now, chances
> are very good that you will not receive one. There may be some
> cancellations as current recipients determine their ability to fulfill
> the requirements, thus allowing us to provide for additional funding,
> but otherwise, we have so far had a very limited amount of money
> earmarked for scholarships and so many people wanting to come to
> wikimania.
>
> Note: there is a specific contribution targeted for individuals in the
> Arabic world (Generally speaking, primary Arabic speakers with
> nationalities from countries with largely Arabic speakers or this list:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_world#States_.26_Territories>).
> We're still working on that list of names, so you may very well still
> have a letter coming if you're from any of these countries.
>
> For the rest of you, I do hope things open up and we're able to get more
> of you to Alexandria.
>
> - --
> Cary Bass
> Volunteer Coordinator
>
> Your continued donations keep Wikipedia running! Support the Wikimedia
> Foundation today: http://donate.wikimedia.org
> Wikimedia Foundation, Inc.
> Phone: 415.839.6885 x 601
> Fax: 415.882.0495
>
> E-Mail: cary@wikimedia.org
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> =IxO+
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>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

On 07/06/2008, Cary Bass <cbass@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Hi all,
>
> This is a very difficult note to write, but I believe it's easiest to
> just write it and be done with it, rather than leaving people in suspense.
>
> If you haven't received a scholarship letter by now, chances
> are very good that you will not receive one. There may be some
> cancellations as current recipients determine their ability to fulfill
> the requirements, thus allowing us to provide for additional funding,
> but otherwise, we have so far had a very limited amount of money
> earmarked for scholarships and so many people wanting to come to
> wikimania.
>
> Note: there is a specific contribution targeted for individuals in the
> Arabic world (Generally speaking, primary Arabic speakers with
> nationalities from countries with largely Arabic speakers or this list:
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabic_world#States_.26_Territories>).
> We're still working on that list of names, so you may very well still
> have a letter coming if you're from any of these countries.
>
> For the rest of you, I do hope things open up and we're able to get more
> of you to Alexandria.
>
> - --
> Cary Bass
> Volunteer Coordinator
>

Well, I can't go. I hope everyone has fun. If you need an extra hand to help
with the scholarships process next year, to speed up the process, I'll be
happy to volunteer. Thanks.

--
Al Tally
(User:Majorly)

On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 12:45 PM, José Alberto Conrado Flores
<fi.mcwan@gmail.com> wrote:
> PS.- If a scholarship ommittee member has a little spare time, could they
> mind telling us (particularly or generally) the reason that we were not
> chosen? Thank you.

Unfortunately, with the hundreds of applications we received, we're
not able to reply individually to those who didn't receive assistance.
This isn't to say that your applications weren't good, or what you
weren't deserving—the simple fact is that we have an extremely limited
budget, and we chose the people we thought were the best candidates
based on the information available to us.

If you weren't sponsored, it isn't that we looked at your application
and ruled you out, but rather that we weren't able to accommodate you
in our budget. It's very, very difficult to weigh one person's value
over another's, and there are a great many candidates I wish we could
have helped, but that was the difficult task with which we were
charged, and we did our best.

Austin
_______________________________________________
Wikimania-l mailing list
Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

I can't believe what you just said above.

But I guess, I am just pissed.

--Anirudh Bhati

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:43 AM, Austin Hair <adhair@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 12:45 PM, José Alberto Conrado Flores
> <fi.mcwan@gmail.com> wrote:
> > PS.- If a scholarship ommittee member has a little spare time, could they
> > mind telling us (particularly or generally) the reason that we were not
> > chosen? Thank you.
>
> Unfortunately, with the hundreds of applications we received, we're
> not able to reply individually to those who didn't receive assistance.
> This isn't to say that your applications weren't good, or what you
> weren't deserving—the simple fact is that we have an extremely limited
> budget, and we chose the people we thought were the best candidates
> based on the information available to us.
>
> If you weren't sponsored, it isn't that we looked at your application
> and ruled you out, but rather that we weren't able to accommodate you
> in our budget. It's very, very difficult to weigh one person's value
> over another's, and there are a great many candidates I wish we could
> have helped, but that was the difficult task with which we were
> charged, and we did our best.
>
> Austin
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>

Apologies for the rushed response.

I was referring to Austin's comment : "the simple fact is that we have an
extremely limited
budget, and we chose the people we thought were the best candidates
based on the information available to us."

I don't believe merit was or should have been an issue here. A large number
of us have been long-term contributors to the Wikimedia projects, and to put
one against the other would be great injustice. I am sure we cannot use an
objective scale to measure performance.

Instead, there should have been a clear distinction made between those who
could have afforded it, and those who can't (I am referring to PCI, PPP and
HDI differences)

Apologies for being crude, once again.

Best wishes,

--Anirudh Bhati

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Anirudh Bhati <anirudhsbh@gmail.com> wrote:

> I can't believe what you just said above.
>
> But I guess, I am just pissed.
>
> --Anirudh Bhati
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:43 AM, Austin Hair <adhair@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 12:45 PM, José Alberto Conrado Flores
>> <fi.mcwan@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > PS.- If a scholarship ommittee member has a little spare time, could
>> they
>> > mind telling us (particularly or generally) the reason that we were not
>> > chosen? Thank you.
>>
>> Unfortunately, with the hundreds of applications we received, we're
>> not able to reply individually to those who didn't receive assistance.
>> This isn't to say that your applications weren't good, or what you
>> weren't deserving—the simple fact is that we have an extremely limited
>> budget, and we chose the people we thought were the best candidates
>> based on the information available to us.
>>
>> If you weren't sponsored, it isn't that we looked at your application
>> and ruled you out, but rather that we weren't able to accommodate you
>> in our budget. It's very, very difficult to weigh one person's value
>> over another's, and there are a great many candidates I wish we could
>> have helped, but that was the difficult task with which we were
>> charged, and we did our best.
>>
>> Austin
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>
>
>

Since Anirudh brought it up: there were far more people who applied who
*are* very dedicated long-term contributors *and* who couldn't afford the
trip *and* who we would love to bring to Wikimania (in some cases, even
people who wanted to present talks of some sort) than we could fund.
"Merit," as Austin was using the term, means a combination of all of these
factors.

Not to mention hundreds (literally) of applications from people who were not
contributors, but are simply hoping for a scholarship (and in those cases,
I'm sure you'll agree, placing people who are Wikimedians ahead of them,
based on their contributions to the project, is fair).

Come on. Show a little good faith towards Austin and Cary, both of whom have
been working really hard to get this done.

And to make scholarships better in the future, all we really need is more
money. So fundraising ideas and/or ideas for donors are welcome. The
scholarship fund does not come out of thin air.

-- phoebe


On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 9:05 AM, Anirudh Bhati <anirudhsbh@gmail.com> wrote:

> Apologies for the rushed response.
>
> I was referring to Austin's comment : "the simple fact is that we have an
> extremely limited
> budget, and we chose the people we thought were the best candidates
> based on the information available to us."
>
> I don't believe merit was or should have been an issue here. A large
> number of us have been long-term contributors to the Wikimedia projects, and
> to put one against the other would be great injustice. I am sure we cannot
> use an objective scale to measure performance.
>
> Instead, there should have been a clear distinction made between those who
> could have afforded it, and those who can't (I am referring to PCI, PPP and
> HDI differences)
>
> Apologies for being crude, once again.
>
> Best wishes,
>
> --Anirudh Bhati
>
>
> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 9:15 PM, Anirudh Bhati <anirudhsbh@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> I can't believe what you just said above.
>>
>> But I guess, I am just pissed.
>>
>> --Anirudh Bhati
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 2:43 AM, Austin Hair <adhair@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> On Sat, Jun 7, 2008 at 12:45 PM, José Alberto Conrado Flores
>>> <fi.mcwan@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> > PS.- If a scholarship ommittee member has a little spare time, could
>>> they
>>> > mind telling us (particularly or generally) the reason that we were not
>>> > chosen? Thank you.
>>>
>>> Unfortunately, with the hundreds of applications we received, we're
>>> not able to reply individually to those who didn't receive assistance.
>>> This isn't to say that your applications weren't good, or what you
>>> weren't deserving—the simple fact is that we have an extremely limited
>>> budget, and we chose the people we thought were the best candidates
>>> based on the information available to us.
>>>
>>> If you weren't sponsored, it isn't that we looked at your application
>>> and ruled you out, but rather that we weren't able to accommodate you
>>> in our budget. It's very, very difficult to weigh one person's value
>>> over another's, and there are a great many candidates I wish we could
>>> have helped, but that was the difficult task with which we were
>>> charged, and we did our best.
>>>
>>> Austin
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimania-l mailing list
>>> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>>> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>>>
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>


--
- phoebe s. ayers | phoebe.ayers@gmail.com

Thank you Austin, Cary and Phoebe for your answers and dedication.

Just to clear our minds a little (and that is what I meant by "generally"),
could you tell us, at least vaguely, which was the profile that the ones who
got sponsored fulfilled? ( Amount requested, PCI, degree of contribution to
WMF projects, other criteria)

I'm sorry if I may be pushing this issue, but as you can see, some of us are
are a bit upset about the outcome.

About future sponsorship. Well, I must admit I didn't do much to get the
wikimania more sponsors. As the upcoming wikimania is going to be held in my
continent, I'll try to get my university (which is the largest in
Latinamerica) to get involved, and I'll try to get in touch with some IBM
reps for the continent. I think I may be able to afford that travel by
myself, but count me in if you need volunteers for the scholarship
committee.

Thank you all.


Alberto Conrado

Hi,

Thanks for taking time to respond, Phoebe. :-)

I had seen this message posted on the list by Cary two days ago, and after
reading it I was disappointed. I knew I probably wouldn't have been making
it to Wikimania this year, without a scholarship. I took it sportingly.
The conference doesn't have enough sponsors. It's nobody's fault. But, I
didn't think the other candidates would have been a *better* choice at all,
just lucky that they applied before some of us could. All of us have spent a
considerable amount of time in taking the project where it is now.

Austin wrote:
>This isn't to say that your applications weren't good, or what you
weren't deserving—the simple fact is that we have an extremely limited
budget, and we chose the people we thought were the best candidates
based on the information available to us.

I am sure it wasn't Austin's intention, but to me it came as a slap on the
face. Best candidates? That's like saying that the past three years well
spent working for Wikipedia and Wikimedia were a waste of my time. That's
like saying appearing on the front
page<http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/2515619.cms>(in
the print edition) of the world's largest circulated English daily for
your work on Wikipedia was a waste of time. That's like saying that a trip
to a city a thousand kilometres away just to understand the non-profit laws
so that we could better decide where to set up the Wikimedia India chapter
was a waste of time. Probably looking for and finding sponsors who would be
willing to support the NGO was a waste of time. My attempt at setting up
the chapter failed, but it definitely was not a wasted effort.

>Come on. Show a little good faith towards Austin and Cary, both of whom
have been working really hard to get this done.

Cary is a friend of mine. A great guy who's competent. I have full faith
in him, and that's one of the reasons why I took the rejection sportingly.
Moaning / bitching / crying wouldn't help me.

But when someone says that their decision rewarded the "best candidates".
Sorry mate, it's a botched up job.

It's like saying reverting vandalism the night before the final exam was a
waste of time. It was not. Wikipedia is my passion. I contribute to the
cause because I believe in it.

My best wishes to Alexandria organizing team, and I hope that this
Wikimania would be a success. :-)

Best,

--Anirudh

On Sun, Jun 8, 2008 at 11:01 PM, José Alberto Conrado Flores <
fi.mcwan@gmail.com> wrote:

> Thank you Austin, Cary and Phoebe for your answers and dedication.
>
> Just to clear our minds a little (and that is what I meant by "generally"),
> could you tell us, at least vaguely, which was the profile that the ones who
> got sponsored fulfilled? ( Amount requested, PCI, degree of contribution to
> WMF projects, other criteria)
>
> I'm sorry if I may be pushing this issue, but as you can see, some of us
> are are a bit upset about the outcome.
>
> About future sponsorship. Well, I must admit I didn't do much to get the
> wikimania more sponsors. As the upcoming wikimania is going to be held in my
> continent, I'll try to get my university (which is the largest in
> Latinamerica) to get involved, and I'll try to get in touch with some IBM
> reps for the continent. I think I may be able to afford that travel by
> myself, but count me in if you need volunteers for the scholarship
> committee.
>
> Thank you all.
>
>
> Alberto Conrado
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
>