Mailing List Archive

Wikimedia already has a bank account in Belgium.

Jakob Voss wrote:
> Any File wrote:
>
>>> It might be a good thing to add the ability
>>> of bank transfer, maybe even through a WMF-account that they transfer it
>>> together to you? (to reduce costs for international and inter-valuta
>>> traffic)
>> This may be a good idea, but it may have some legal implication. Who
>> would be the entity that collect the money and at what title would do that.
> > [...]
>> If such a thing would be set up, not only the people in that country
>> could benefit, but also the people in many other countries in Europe
>> since the transfer fee to another EU country would be minimal compared
>> to an EU/Taiwan transfer.
>
> In 2005 Wikimania Foundation was given access to a bank account held by
> Wikimedia Germany. I don't know whether Wikimania Germany can offer this
> for Wikimania 2007 but I'll ask our treasurer. A bank account within the
> EU would at least help EU citizen because transfer fee within EU is zero
> (of course there is transfer fee between EU and taiwan but it's probably
> less if money is transfered collected). Maybe we could set up a
> procedure where you weekly send Wikimedia Germany the list of people
> with keywords and Wikimedia Germany checks whether money has been
> recieved or not.
>
> Greetings,
> Jakob
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l

David Strauss wrote:
> Wikimedia already has a bank account in Belgium.

Well, then better ask Wikimedia Foundation and they might ask a local
european chapter if help is needed.

Greetings,
Jakob

On 2/28/07, Jakob Voss <jakob.voss at nichtich.de> wrote:
> Any File wrote:
>
> >> It might be a good thing to add the ability
> >> of bank transfer, maybe even through a WMF-account that they transfer it
> >> together to you? (to reduce costs for international and inter-valuta
> >> traffic)
> >
> > This may be a good idea, but it may have some legal implication. Who
> > would be the entity that collect the money and at what title would do that.
> > [...]
> > If such a thing would be set up, not only the people in that country
> > could benefit, but also the people in many other countries in Europe
> > since the transfer fee to another EU country would be minimal compared
> > to an EU/Taiwan transfer.
>
> In 2005 Wikimania Foundation was given access to a bank account held by
> Wikimedia Germany. I don't know whether Wikimania Germany can offer this
> for Wikimania 2007 but I'll ask our treasurer. A bank account within the
> EU would at least help EU citizen because transfer fee within EU is zero
> (of course there is transfer fee between EU and taiwan but it's probably
> less if money is transfered collected). Maybe we could set up a
> procedure where you weekly send Wikimedia Germany the list of people
> with keywords and Wikimedia Germany checks whether money has been
> recieved or not.

No need to ask the treasurer, we can't do that :-)

"opening an account in the name of" is not as trivial a thing as it
seems. There are many considerations involved. In Germany, for
example, you need to have a representative, ie. a subsidiary or some
such. It also involves tax questions and such weird things that are
not easy to straighten out just "for an event" (they're already not
easy "for an organisation" -- believe me, it's not like I haven't been
trying ;) )

On the other hand, bank transfer is not always the means of payment of
choice. My point being, the Italians may want bank transfer, as the
Germans would, but the French or the Americans would simply never use
it. In the end, we will never be able to accommodate, at least in the
near future, everyone. Paypal with its credit card solution might not
be the *best* solution *for everyone*,but at this stage, it is
definitely the best solution available to us, with the means we have
and the possibility we've explored.

Cheers,

Delphine
PS. Ah, and using 5 different accounts to track donation
money/wikimania fees/whatever else is *not* a good idea. The Belgian
account is not a satisfying solution at this stage, for other reasons.


--
~notafish
NB. This address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to
this address will probably get lost.

Delphine M?nard wrote:

> No need to ask the treasurer, we can't do that :-)

[...]

> -- believe me, it's not like I haven't been trying ;)

thanks for clarification. by the way did you know that you are still
listed at
http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Team#General_Coordination ?

Greetings,
Jakob

> On 2/28/07, Jakob Voss wrote:
>> A bank account within the
> > EU would at least help EU citizen because transfer fee within EU is zero
> > (of course there is transfer fee between EU and taiwan but it's probably
> > less if money is transfered collected).

Actually this is not true. I know that in some countries the transfert
is zero commission, but this is not true in other countries. The
"rules" is that for a transfer inside the "agree-zone" (it is not all
of the Europe, nor all of the euro zone) is charged the same way a
domestic transfer . But since it is not always true that domestic
transfer are free of charge, not always the inter-euro transfer are
free of charge. For instance I would pay from 1 eur to 8 eur of
commission charge from Italy (depending the way used - online or at
bank office, the bank branch or post office, etc.)

I just saying that for completeness of information. I is always still
true that an inter-euro transfer is much more cheaper than a transfer
from an Euro countries to a "far" country

On 3/1/07, Delphine M?nard <notafishz at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> "opening an account in the name of" is not as trivial

I surely know that, and actually I was not thing that such system
could be available for this (2007) wikimania, but it can be something
that somebody may think for a future edition.

It would be also interesting to compare the overall cost for the
receiving part. Usually credit card commissions for a merchant are
rather high, if it have not a big volume of affair.

> There are many considerations involved.

By the way this rise me a point. Is the person who is sending money
(in any way (s)he is doing it) enough informed for what it is paying
and who is paying (where the money are going)?

In page http://wikimania2007.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania:Translation/Registration_form
it is said to make transfer to "Association of Digital Culture of
Taiwan", but this Association is never cited in any other page of the
web site (except for some bulletins) and not cited in another point of
the registration form.

In the page that gives you the registration number, there is list of
money due, but it is not well stated for what.

> On the other hand, bank transfer is not always the means of payment of
> choice. My point being, the Italians may want bank transfer, as the
> Germans would, but the French or the Americans would simply never use
> it.

This rise my curiosity. Why this? Because every French has a credit card?

> PS. Ah, and using 5 different accounts to track donation
> money/wikimania fees/whatever else is *not* a good idea.

That's for sure. A workaround for this would be that this way of
payment would be available only for early payment. Actually I know
there are many points that would be needed to be addressed (for
instance you would have to move personal details from inside the EU to
a different country)

AnyFile

On 3/1/07, Any File <anysomefile at gmail.com> wrote:

> > On the other hand, bank transfer is not always the means of payment of
> > choice. My point being, the Italians may want bank transfer, as the
> > Germans would, but the French or the Americans would simply never use
> > it.
>
> This rise my curiosity. Why this? Because every French has a credit card?

Yes, and it costs little and it's really handy because debit and
credit card are in the same plastic thing. And our online banking
sucks big time, so making an online bank transfer is hell in a box.

Cultural differences and history are a big part of this "money
changing hands" business. There are those who don't like credit cards,
those who don't have them, those who would "never do anything
involving money over the internet", those who have never seen or heard
of a check and those who can't imagine that checks are not accepted,
those who love cash and those who hate it, those who are paypal
freaks, those who don't trust paypal. In short, there are as many ways
of "paying" as there are countries and people. And one organisation
cannot accommodate them all.

We have to draw the line somewhere :-)

Delphine

--
~notafish
NB. This address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to
this address will probably get lost.

2007/3/2, Delphine M?nard <notafishz at gmail.com>:
>
> On 3/1/07, Any File <anysomefile at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On the other hand, bank transfer is not always the means of payment of
> > > choice. My point being, the Italians may want bank transfer, as the
> > > Germans would, but the French or the Americans would simply never use
> > > it.
> >
> > This rise my curiosity. Why this? Because every French has a credit
> card?
>
> Yes, and it costs little and it's really handy because debit and
> credit card are in the same plastic thing. And our online banking
> sucks big time, so making an online bank transfer is hell in a box.
>
> Cultural differences and history are a big part of this "money
> changing hands" business. There are those who don't like credit cards,
> those who don't have them, those who would "never do anything
> involving money over the internet", those who have never seen or heard
> of a check and those who can't imagine that checks are not accepted,
> those who love cash and those who hate it, those who are paypal
> freaks, those who don't trust paypal. In short, there are as many ways
> of "paying" as there are countries and people. And one organisation
> cannot accommodate them all.
>
> We have to draw the line somewhere :-)
>
> Delphine
>
> --
> ~notafish
> NB. This address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to
> this address will probably get lost.
>


Hi, all,

Generally in Taiwan, banks don't accept people to open an account for just
one event, and furthermore, only legal entities who have registered to the
government can open bank accounts. When Taipei was chosen to host Wikimania
2007, Taiwanese Wikimedians didn't have an organization to open an account.
Neither the Foundation had the qualification. It took much time for the
organizing team to negotiate with the banks, but finally in vain.

After several weeks negotiating between the team, Brad and a friendly
organization, in which KJ is on the board of trustees, now we have a bank
account in Taiwan. This account is from a co-sponsor "Association of Digital
Culture of Taiwan", and it is an independent account from their own account.
WMF and ADCT both parties acknowledge this account is just for this event.
ADCT doesn't charge us for borrowing this account from them.

With this account, we can continue our preparation works. It will be the
account for receiving registration fees and etc. Dann ( Ms. Hsin-cheng Hsu),
the treasurer of the team will check the account when she gets notification
from registration manager of this event. Then we can as soon as possible
confirm the attendee's registration, including accommodation, if he/she
wants to stay in CTOYAC.

We have set up a SOP in both Paypal and remittance ways. We hope the process
of registration goes very smoothly. Thanks for all your concern and
understanding. And also, thank you ADCT.

THD
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Hoi,
Credit card cheap ??
YOU ARE JOKING
Money transfers within Europe are free provided you use the right IBAN etc
codes. Credit card can cost anything up to four percent; it is legalised
stealing.
Thanks,
GerardM

On 3/2/07, Delphine M?nard <notafishz at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 3/1/07, Any File <anysomefile at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > On the other hand, bank transfer is not always the means of payment of
> > > choice. My point being, the Italians may want bank transfer, as the
> > > Germans would, but the French or the Americans would simply never use
> > > it.
> >
> > This rise my curiosity. Why this? Because every French has a credit
> card?
>
> Yes, and it costs little and it's really handy because debit and
> credit card are in the same plastic thing. And our online banking
> sucks big time, so making an online bank transfer is hell in a box.
>
> Cultural differences and history are a big part of this "money
> changing hands" business. There are those who don't like credit cards,
> those who don't have them, those who would "never do anything
> involving money over the internet", those who have never seen or heard
> of a check and those who can't imagine that checks are not accepted,
> those who love cash and those who hate it, those who are paypal
> freaks, those who don't trust paypal. In short, there are as many ways
> of "paying" as there are countries and people. And one organisation
> cannot accommodate them all.
>
> We have to draw the line somewhere :-)
>
> Delphine
>
> --
> ~notafish
> NB. This address is used for mailing lists. Personal emails sent to
> this address will probably get lost.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimania-l mailing list
> Wikimania-l at lists.wikimedia.org
> http://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimania-l
>
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Dear GerardM,

please just re-read what Delphine read:

> Cultural differences and history are a big part of this "money
> changing hands" business. There are those who don't like credit cards,
> those who don't have them, those who would "never do anything
> involving money over the internet", those who have never seen or heard
> of a check and those who can't imagine that checks are not accepted,
> those who love cash and those who hate it, those who are paypal
> freaks, those who don't trust paypal. In short, there are as many ways
> of "paying" as there are countries and people. And one organisation
> cannot accommodate them all.

A public discussion about how to pay based on different background and
limited knowledge of concret circumstances is a wasteful effort of time
that can better be used in other places to help Wikimania and the other
Wikimedia projects.

Greetings,
Jakob

Hoi,
The one thing I respond to is the "Yes, and it costs little ", exactly
the part that you filtered out. Credit cards are a rip off compared to
EU bank transfers. Banks that receive money and charge for are in
violation of EU rulings. I know for sure that some Italian banks steal
in this way. This is part of a concerted effort to get the EU public to
use credit cards ie enrich the banks.
Thanks,
GerardM

Jakob Voss schreef:
> Dear GerardM,
>
> please just re-read what Delphine read:
>
>
>> Cultural differences and history are a big part of this "money
>> changing hands" business. There are those who don't like credit cards,
>> those who don't have them, those who would "never do anything
>> involving money over the internet", those who have never seen or heard
>> of a check and those who can't imagine that checks are not accepted,
>> those who love cash and those who hate it, those who are paypal
>> freaks, those who don't trust paypal. In short, there are as many ways
>> of "paying" as there are countries and people. And one organisation
>> cannot accommodate them all.
>>
>
> A public discussion about how to pay based on different background and
> limited knowledge of concret circumstances is a wasteful effort of time
> that can better be used in other places to help Wikimania and the other
> Wikimedia projects.
>
> Greetings,
> Jakob