Before building on top of this, I wanna shortly appreciate the resilience of the Pakistani community, who made it to the 21st position of the WLM 2023 international winner list despite these challenges and lack of support.
So, where do we stand now?
Two takeaways from Stephen's statement:
- foundation vaguely understands the situation in Pakistan
- for support, Pakistani wikimedia folks need to email another foundation team, Benedict added another new email address to the list. I hope other people have also something to add to the list. We will have a beautiful long list at the end and we may need crm solutions to keep track of all the communication.
Gratitude to to Mr. Stephen LaPorte for taking the time to give the statement, we are now confident that our emails to are read by the foundation employees if not answered. Would you kindly forward this mail to the relevant foundation team directly and get back to us with the respond?
Please answer to the following questions precisely, filtering corporate buzzwords and unnecessary fleshing out of the message.
- Is responding to any wikimedia foundation hosted project's block in a country included in the foundation's scope? If no, this thread is done.
- If yes, to what extent? what is the specific workflow for that? What specific actions are expected from the community and the foundation in that process?
- Why do we keep being referred from one foundation team to another when no one bothers to reply at all?
Regards,
WikiInsaf
Insaf jarur milegi
On Thursday, March 21st, 2024 at 11:22 PM, Stephen LaPorte <slaporte@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am Stephen LaPorte, the General Counsel at the Foundation.
>
> We have received reports that Wikimedia Commons has been partially inaccessible in Pakistan—depending on the user's Internet Service Provider—for multiple years, starting as early as 2021. My understanding is that it does not affect the display of images on Wikipedia, and it predates the [blocking and unblocking](https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-pakistan-telecommunications-authority-to-restore-access-to-wikipedia-in-pakistan/) of Wikipedia in February 2023.
>
> We have not received any formal notice or a recent legal demand related to Wikimedia Commons, so we do not know on what grounds the site is partially inaccessible or how many people have been affected since this started. Overall, traffic to Wikimedia Commons from Pakistan before 2020 is too low to establish a clear pattern that shows when this started or the extent of the disruption. All these factors have made understanding the situation difficult and require a balanced response, and we remain committed to knowledge access in the country.
>
> After [Yaroslav reported](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2023/07#Is_Wikimedia_Commons_blocked_in_Pakistan?) not being able to access the site last year, we investigated further. We've shared information about this situation with other organizations that monitor internet censorship and advocate for internet freedom in Pakistan.
>
> We believe that access to knowledge is a human right, and we oppose internet censorship in all forms. We believe that limiting access to projects like Wikimedia Commons deprives people of access to important historical and educational content and makes it more difficult for local volunteers to share their media with the world.
>
> If you experience censorship of the Wikimedia projects, you are welcome to report this directly to the Wikimedia Foundation at <answers@wikimedia.org> and we can help route the question to the right technical experts within the Foundation.
>
> Best,
> Stephen
>
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 10:06?AM Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My understanding is that only Commons is currently blocked in Pakistan.
>>
>> In July 2023, when I visited, I could (and did) edit Wikipedia and Wikivoyage in several languages, as well as Wikidata. To be honest I did not try Urdu Wikipedia, but I guess if it were blocked in Pakistan we would know this.
>>
>> My impression from the communication with WMF I described earlier was that they learned about the Commons block from me. I might be wrong of course.
>>
>> Best
>> Yaroslav
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 5:14?PM Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Could someone please explicitly state which Wikimedia projects are blocked in Pakistan? This thread starts around the blocking of Commons, but information provided by James Heilman implies that (at least one point) ALL Wikimedia projects are blocked. So, to be clear, are Wikipedias also blocked? Other projects? Understanding the extent of the block will help the broader community to best assist our Pakistani colleagues in continuing to contribute, and for helping the broad Pakistani citizenship to access our work.
>>>
>>> It may be helpful for someone from the WMF who is in a position to report to tell us exactly which projects are currently blocked, and whether or not any of the originally blocked projects have now had blocks lifted.
>>>
>>> Risker/Anne
>>>
>>> Risker/Anne
>>>
>>> On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 at 11:21, Saqib Qayyum <saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I remember this statement was issued when Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year.
>>>> --
>>>> Saqib Qayyum
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 7:54?AM James Heilman <jmh649@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here is the press release from Feb 3, 2023 from the WMF urging Pakistan to unblock Wikimedia Projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-pakistan-telecommunications-authority-to-restore-access-to-wikipedia-in-pakistan/
>>>>>
>>>>> Appears the reason has to do with religious content
>>>>>
>>>>> https://netblocks.org/reports/wikipedia-restricted-in-pakistan-over-alleged-sacrilegious-content-nAg35pAp
>>>>>
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 6:40?PM Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention back to getting Commons unblocked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From,
>>>>>> I dream of horses
>>>>>> She/her
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/5BTBH6H4PEHX7CCUBYKUDKDXDC3VOAX5/
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From,
>>>>>>> I dream of horses
>>>>>>> She/her
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So how can VPN be a solution?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From,
>>>>>>>> I dream of horses
>>>>>>>> She/her
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So how can VPN be a solution?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum <saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Mr James
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site.
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Saqib Qayyum
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55?PM James Heilman <jmh649@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can you not just use a VPN?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29?PM Saqib Qayyum <saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Saqib Qayyum
>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>>>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/H5SMMTKRTUI5QLDKOCLZNWCABGDK3UHL/
>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> James Heilman
>>>>>>>>>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/53DBHAHGEAWIH5VI2X7YMEWYSWDHCBXM/
>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/SPUJHE3YFDHS2OBQT6KTJOFK7WOSGDZF/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/RPS6LSQ7DFBOI2FVML4F2TYTKEUVPSFQ/
>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/CMD6ZMRBLVEYSLR7A5OREASGAJPPTB6T/
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/RWXA44WQNH2K4PVXLSDHCTBGQ3PR4JF7/
>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/EJI2VJIUIR2NGW7IDPL3GR6DOUQHEG7S/
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/DQLOG7SVBJAOXKG67FGAYJOM5MYBXSCG/
>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> James Heilman
>>>>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/D4SZTUNQ3LKSP7OPLKXXLRSXZMO2YJKB/
>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/UMZO7ZQ34JUEIPWGQFBLL25TZB3UUHGX/
>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/73YAZYWM6MVXM6OWLKKADNAYYQSNACGU/
>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/MZFHLGTN6OXF55AXFKEBFUBZNEBPKAYH/
>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>
> --
>
> Stephen LaPorte (he/him/his)
> General Counsel
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
> NOTICE: This message may be confidential or legally privileged. If you have received it by accident, please delete it and let us know about the mistake. As an attorney for the Wikimedia Foundation, for legal and ethical reasons, I cannot give legal advice to, or serve as a lawyer for, community members, volunteers, or staff members in their personal capacity. For more on what this means, please see our [legal disclaimer](https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia_Legal_Disclaimer).
So, where do we stand now?
Two takeaways from Stephen's statement:
- foundation vaguely understands the situation in Pakistan
- for support, Pakistani wikimedia folks need to email another foundation team, Benedict added another new email address to the list. I hope other people have also something to add to the list. We will have a beautiful long list at the end and we may need crm solutions to keep track of all the communication.
Gratitude to to Mr. Stephen LaPorte for taking the time to give the statement, we are now confident that our emails to are read by the foundation employees if not answered. Would you kindly forward this mail to the relevant foundation team directly and get back to us with the respond?
Please answer to the following questions precisely, filtering corporate buzzwords and unnecessary fleshing out of the message.
- Is responding to any wikimedia foundation hosted project's block in a country included in the foundation's scope? If no, this thread is done.
- If yes, to what extent? what is the specific workflow for that? What specific actions are expected from the community and the foundation in that process?
- Why do we keep being referred from one foundation team to another when no one bothers to reply at all?
Regards,
WikiInsaf
Insaf jarur milegi
On Thursday, March 21st, 2024 at 11:22 PM, Stephen LaPorte <slaporte@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I am Stephen LaPorte, the General Counsel at the Foundation.
>
> We have received reports that Wikimedia Commons has been partially inaccessible in Pakistan—depending on the user's Internet Service Provider—for multiple years, starting as early as 2021. My understanding is that it does not affect the display of images on Wikipedia, and it predates the [blocking and unblocking](https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-pakistan-telecommunications-authority-to-restore-access-to-wikipedia-in-pakistan/) of Wikipedia in February 2023.
>
> We have not received any formal notice or a recent legal demand related to Wikimedia Commons, so we do not know on what grounds the site is partially inaccessible or how many people have been affected since this started. Overall, traffic to Wikimedia Commons from Pakistan before 2020 is too low to establish a clear pattern that shows when this started or the extent of the disruption. All these factors have made understanding the situation difficult and require a balanced response, and we remain committed to knowledge access in the country.
>
> After [Yaroslav reported](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Village_pump/Archive/2023/07#Is_Wikimedia_Commons_blocked_in_Pakistan?) not being able to access the site last year, we investigated further. We've shared information about this situation with other organizations that monitor internet censorship and advocate for internet freedom in Pakistan.
>
> We believe that access to knowledge is a human right, and we oppose internet censorship in all forms. We believe that limiting access to projects like Wikimedia Commons deprives people of access to important historical and educational content and makes it more difficult for local volunteers to share their media with the world.
>
> If you experience censorship of the Wikimedia projects, you are welcome to report this directly to the Wikimedia Foundation at <answers@wikimedia.org> and we can help route the question to the right technical experts within the Foundation.
>
> Best,
> Stephen
>
> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 10:06?AM Yaroslav Blanter <ymbalt@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> My understanding is that only Commons is currently blocked in Pakistan.
>>
>> In July 2023, when I visited, I could (and did) edit Wikipedia and Wikivoyage in several languages, as well as Wikidata. To be honest I did not try Urdu Wikipedia, but I guess if it were blocked in Pakistan we would know this.
>>
>> My impression from the communication with WMF I described earlier was that they learned about the Commons block from me. I might be wrong of course.
>>
>> Best
>> Yaroslav
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 5:14?PM Risker <risker.wp@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Could someone please explicitly state which Wikimedia projects are blocked in Pakistan? This thread starts around the blocking of Commons, but information provided by James Heilman implies that (at least one point) ALL Wikimedia projects are blocked. So, to be clear, are Wikipedias also blocked? Other projects? Understanding the extent of the block will help the broader community to best assist our Pakistani colleagues in continuing to contribute, and for helping the broad Pakistani citizenship to access our work.
>>>
>>> It may be helpful for someone from the WMF who is in a position to report to tell us exactly which projects are currently blocked, and whether or not any of the originally blocked projects have now had blocks lifted.
>>>
>>> Risker/Anne
>>>
>>> Risker/Anne
>>>
>>> On Wed, 20 Mar 2024 at 11:21, Saqib Qayyum <saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I remember this statement was issued when Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year.
>>>> --
>>>> Saqib Qayyum
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Mar 20, 2024 at 7:54?AM James Heilman <jmh649@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Here is the press release from Feb 3, 2023 from the WMF urging Pakistan to unblock Wikimedia Projects.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://wikimediafoundation.org/news/2023/02/03/wikimedia-foundation-urges-pakistan-telecommunications-authority-to-restore-access-to-wikipedia-in-pakistan/
>>>>>
>>>>> Appears the reason has to do with religious content
>>>>>
>>>>> https://netblocks.org/reports/wikipedia-restricted-in-pakistan-over-alleged-sacrilegious-content-nAg35pAp
>>>>>
>>>>> James
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 6:40?PM Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> IP block exemption is already automatically granted to admins, at least on the English Wikipedia; it’s rarely needed enough that further automatic exemption doesn’t really make sense. VPNs, typically costing money, aren’t an accessible workaround, anyways. Let’s redirect attention back to getting Commons unblocked.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From,
>>>>>> I dream of horses
>>>>>> She/her
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 2:40 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's intriguing (to me) to contemplate how the notion of restricting IP editing in specific circumstances is often viewed as a violation of principle, even when supported by examples or data, yet a restriction like requiring long-standing users to jump through hoops just to use a VPN for privacy—something standard nowadays—is considered necessary and acceptable. Both policies aim to address issues while weighing the pros and cons and inevitably curbing some degree of freedom.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Personally, I question the efficiency of the VPN restriction. I hold a different perspective: implementing a one or two-year, 100-500-edit registration threshold for automatic exemption of registered users seems reasonable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Nevertheless, it's important to recognize that nothing is inherently necessary; these are always political and not technical choices.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's not just vandals ruining it; it's also the approach taken. By granting trolls immense power to disrupt everyone's activities, you fuel their mischief. Thus, every time these extreme measures are enforced and standardized, they inevitably lead to wasted time and endless debates about the status quo, and regular users pay a price. Not hypothetically, for real.... we know. Whoever prioritizes the pursuit of trolls and vandals over the work of regular users, de facto feeds the troll.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It's important to clarify: as seasoned users, many of us have kinda learned to navigate this "mess" and endure it... similar issues have been grappled with for years, Commons management shows little sign of improvement and we just don't care anymore.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> However, for those who haven't mastered it or are stuck in some nationwide quagmire as this one, suggesting VPNs as a solution is impractical—unless you anticipate tens of thousands of users from a country with millions of inhabitants to individually request IP exemptions. It's evident that the log of such a system would not be sustainable.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I remain skeptical that an alternative solution will be implemented, given the likelihood that the approach will mirror that of the VPN case or other instances—utilizing massive and/or indefinite self-referential strict measures that are seldom evaluated on the long term with some metrics.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 20:24:15 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Wikimedia-l mailing list -- wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>>>>>>> Public archives at https://lists.wikimedia.org/hyperkitty/list/wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org/message/5BTBH6H4PEHX7CCUBYKUDKDXDC3VOAX5/
>>>>>>> To unsubscribe send an email to wikimedia-l-leave@lists.wikimedia.org
>>>>>>> Unfortunately, there’s a history of an overwhelming amount of vandals using VPNs to, well, vandalize Wikipedia, hence the block on known VPN and the bureaucracy surrounding them. If the block is removed, it’ll quite likely become a problem again. It really is a situation of people behaving poorly ruining it for everyone.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From,
>>>>>>> I dream of horses
>>>>>>> She/her
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 12:17 PM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> That doesn't seem logical or fair. If a user is registered and not already blocked, the IPs they are using shouldn't matter at all.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Personally, I've never used a VPN before I got it this way (even living in the PRC), but I understand that some people might need to do so for privacy reasons. So, this restriction should be removed. Registered users should have the freedom to access the platform how they want. If there's an issue with a specific user, it's more appropriate to block their username rather than restricting their access when logged in based on IP addresses. Adding more bureaucracy isn't the solution if there isn't a problem to begin with.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In any case, nothing will probably change. But please don't say that VPN is a solution. People have already enough problems that adding more and more passages.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 19:51:42 CET, Neurodivergent Netizen <idoh.idreamofhorses@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So how can VPN be a solution?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Right, you would’ve had to use IP block exemption, which would require some level of trust from the community that you aren’t a vandal or other blocked user trying to circumspect said block.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> From,
>>>>>>>> I dream of horses
>>>>>>>> She/her
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Mar 19, 2024, at 11:23 AM, Alessandro Marchetti via Wikimedia-l <wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Why is there so much discussion about using VPNs as a solution? A few years ago, I acquired a VPN as part of an antivirus package. However, when I tried to use it for other services, I encountered an unexpected issue switching on wiki platforms: despite being there as a registered user, I found myself unable to edit them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> So how can VPN be a solution?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> A.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Il martedì 19 marzo 2024 alle ore 18:17:52 CET, Saqib Qayyum <saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> ha scritto:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hello Mr James
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Certainly, using a VPN is a workaround, but it's worth noting that obtaining an IP block exemption is still necessary to edit Commons, and this is not always feasible for all users. Many may not even be aware of its existence. For instance, I couldn't edit Commons since October 2020 until I discovered the option for IP ban exemption. .
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> And because of this, contributions to Commons from Pakistan have significantly dwindled. For instance, I recall organizing Wiki Loves Monuments Pakistan from 2014, where we used to receive thousands of images annually. However, in recent years, the number of uploads has drastically declined, with only a maximum of 100 photos being uploaded each year. This trend underscores the challenges Pakistani users face in accessing and contributing to the site.
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> Saqib Qayyum
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:55?PM James Heilman <jmh649@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Can you not just use a VPN?
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> James
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Mar 19, 2024 at 9:29?PM Saqib Qayyum <saqibqayyumc@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I am writing to you as a concerned volunteer from Pakistan regarding a critical issue that has been persisting for several years now. Despite multiple attempts to communicate this matter to members of the WMF's communication team, there has been a disappointing lack of response or acknowledgment.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> For the past several years, Commons has been blocked in Pakistan. While Wikipedia was briefly blocked last year, the swift response from both Pakistani and international news media led to its unblocking. However, the blockade of Commons, being a less prominent site in comparison, has gone largely unnoticed.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Furthermore, several journalists I have spoken to have also expressed frustration over their attempts to reach out to WMF staff regarding this issue, only to receive no response.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> I urge the WMF to prioritize this matter and take immediate action to address the ongoing blockage of Commons in Pakistan.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Thank you for your attention to this urgent matter.
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Saqib Qayyum
>>>>>>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Saqib
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> James Heilman
>>>>>>>>>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>>
>>>>> James Heilman
>>>>> MD, CCFP-EM, Wikipedian
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>
> --
>
> Stephen LaPorte (he/him/his)
> General Counsel
> Wikimedia Foundation
>
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