Mailing List Archive

Hi everyone,

The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns and
questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added an
FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the block
and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating the
project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages to
your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.


Best,

Samir

[1] https://w.wiki/LEF

Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)

Community Brand and Marketing coordinator

Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>



On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com> wrote:

> This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship with
> the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats been
> reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who been
> blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they start
> making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be
> something done to get them back to good standing with the community first
> untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the hen
> house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
>
> After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the 2030
> strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should have
> been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible not
> to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we will be
> doing anything for the next 10 years.
>
> On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness
> > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> >
> >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far, it
> > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
> operate,
> > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin
> > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of buzz,
> > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong,
> and
> > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block
> > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> > >
> > > Hello,
> > >
> > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at
> > > you, Essie.
> > >
> > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the
> > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of resources
> > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a
> > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the
> > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself as
> > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and
> > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and
> > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think that
> > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta
> > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been
> > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few
> > > months.
> > >
> > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program
> > > in its current form.
> > >
> > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated
> > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether
> > > this project should continue. If the community wants a branding
> > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the project's
> > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
> > >
> > > Pine
> > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
>
>
> --
> GN.
>
> *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> August
> hosted by ESEAP
>
> Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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Hoi,
The fact that it is considered major enough to address how Snøhetta became
blocked on English Wikipedia is ok. What is also does is confirm the bias
towards English Wikipedia. I am pretty sure that in the briefing of
Snøhetta personnel it was NOT mentioned that other projects may have
different policies, they substantially differ.

For me this whole process seems like a traintrack leading to a train wreck.
Wikipedia is not what *we *do, it is the brand Wikimedia is best known for.
Remember bias is not experienced and appreciated by the people who are
associated with what is dominant. I stated before how Wikipedia bias has
prevented us to move forward with our other "brands" and projects. I would
like some response on that.
Thanks,
GeradM

On Thu, 26 Mar 2020 at 00:16, Samir Elsharbaty <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns and
> questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added an
> FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the block
> and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating the
> project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages to
> your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Samir
>
> [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
>
> Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
>
> Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship
> with
> > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats been
> > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who been
> > blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they
> start
> > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be
> > something done to get them back to good standing with the community first
> > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the hen
> > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
> >
> > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the
> 2030
> > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should have
> > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible
> not
> > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we will be
> > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> >
> > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness
> > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far,
> it
> > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
> > operate,
> > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin
> > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of
> buzz,
> > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong,
> > and
> > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block
> > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community.
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at
> > > > you, Essie.
> > > >
> > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the
> > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
> resources
> > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a
> > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the
> > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself
> as
> > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and
> > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and
> > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think
> that
> > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta
> > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been
> > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few
> > > > months.
> > > >
> > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program
> > > > in its current form.
> > > >
> > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated
> > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether
> > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a branding
> > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
> project's
> > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> >
> > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > August
> > hosted by ESEAP
> >
> > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Samir,

I don't think the "FAQ" gets the point. The "AQ" was if the "rebranding"
was acceptable. The answer was a resounding "no".

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020, 5:16 PM Samir Elsharbaty <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:

> Hi everyone,
>
> The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns and
> questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added an
> FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the block
> and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating the
> project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages to
> your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Samir
>
> [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
>
> Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
>
> Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship
> with
> > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats been
> > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who been
> > blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they
> start
> > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be
> > something done to get them back to good standing with the community first
> > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the hen
> > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
> >
> > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the
> 2030
> > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should have
> > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible
> not
> > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we will be
> > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> >
> > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness
> > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far,
> it
> > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
> > operate,
> > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin
> > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of
> buzz,
> > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong,
> > and
> > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block
> > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community.
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at
> > > > you, Essie.
> > > >
> > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the
> > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
> resources
> > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a
> > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the
> > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself
> as
> > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and
> > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and
> > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think
> that
> > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta
> > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been
> > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few
> > > > months.
> > > >
> > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program
> > > > in its current form.
> > > >
> > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated
> > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether
> > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a branding
> > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
> project's
> > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> >
> > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > August
> > hosted by ESEAP
> >
> > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
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New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even
after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)


- d.

On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
<selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns and
> questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added an
> FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the block
> and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating the
> project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages to
> your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
>
>
> Best,
>
> Samir
>
> [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
>
> Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
>
> Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship with
> > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats been
> > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who been
> > blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they start
> > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be
> > something done to get them back to good standing with the community first
> > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the hen
> > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
> >
> > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the 2030
> > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should have
> > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible not
> > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we will be
> > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> >
> > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an unwillingness
> > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so far, it
> > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
> > operate,
> > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to spin
> > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of buzz,
> > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am wrong,
> > and
> > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside? Block
> > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community.
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> > > >
> > > > Hello,
> > > >
> > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally at
> > > > you, Essie.
> > > >
> > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the
> > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of resources
> > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project is a
> > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the
> > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding itself as
> > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and
> > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems, and
> > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think that
> > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta
> > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've been
> > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few
> > > > months.
> > > >
> > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this program
> > > > in its current form.
> > > >
> > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending associated
> > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on whether
> > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a branding
> > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the project's
> > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be involved.
> > > >
> > > > Pine
> > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > GN.
> >
> > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > August
> > hosted by ESEAP
> >
> > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

_______________________________________________
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New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

Hi All,

We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline and
share an invitation to join an event this month.

We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so we are
slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening to all
of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and
priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the project
timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and smaller
time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month and
keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a more
regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions planned
for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals are
likewise shifted +4 weeks.

But we do have things to share:

*This month: live brand concept presentation!*

To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts referred to
in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will
present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. Snøhetta
will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models from
the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified concept.
This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work around
the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design system.
The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing after. You
can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation of a
proposal for a naming convention or design.

Thank you!

Samir and the brand project team

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline

[2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network

[3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/

[4] Join via Zoom:

https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325

Steam via Youtube Live:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q

Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)

Community Brand and Marketing coordinator

Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>



On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:

> The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even
> after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
>
>
> - d.
>
> On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
> <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> >
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns and
> > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added
> an
> > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the block
> > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating
> the
> > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages to
> > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
> >
> >
> > Best,
> >
> > Samir
> >
> > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
> >
> > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> >
> > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> >
> > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship
> with
> > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats been
> > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who been
> > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they
> start
> > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be
> > > something done to get them back to good standing with the community
> first
> > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the
> hen
> > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
> > >
> > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the
> 2030
> > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should have
> > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its comprehensible
> not
> > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we will
> be
> > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> > >
> > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
> unwillingness
> > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - d.
> > > >
> > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so
> far, it
> > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
> > > operate,
> > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to
> spin
> > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of
> buzz,
> > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am
> wrong,
> > > and
> > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside?
> Block
> > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the community.
> > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > Peter
> > > > >
> > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> On
> > > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> > > > >
> > > > > Hello,
> > > > >
> > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed personally
> at
> > > > > you, Essie.
> > > > >
> > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the
> > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
> resources
> > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project
> is a
> > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the
> > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding
> itself as
> > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities and
> > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems,
> and
> > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think
> that
> > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve Snøhetta
> > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've
> been
> > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past few
> > > > > months.
> > > > >
> > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this
> program
> > > > > in its current form.
> > > > >
> > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
> associated
> > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on
> whether
> > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a branding
> > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
> project's
> > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
> involved.
> > > > >
> > > > > Pine
> > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > GN.
> > >
> > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > > August
> > > hosted by ESEAP
> > >
> > > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>
_______________________________________________
Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at: https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l, <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org?subject=unsubscribe>

There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that.
No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I just
didn't hear that.
Kind regards,
(Comment in personal capacity)

Thanks


On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
> We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline and
> share an invitation to join an event this month.
>
> We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so we are
> slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening to all
> of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and
> priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the project
> timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and smaller
> time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month and
> keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a more
> regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions planned
> for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals are
> likewise shifted +4 weeks.
>
> But we do have things to share:
>
> *This month: live brand concept presentation!*
>
> To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts referred to
> in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will
> present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. Snøhetta
> will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models from
> the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified concept.
> This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work around
> the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design system.
> The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing after. You
> can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation of a
> proposal for a naming convention or design.
>
> Thank you!
>
> Samir and the brand project team
>
> [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline
>
> [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
>
> [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
>
> [4] Join via Zoom:
>
> https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
>
> Steam via Youtube Live:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
>
> Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
>
> Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even
> > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
> >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
> > <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi everyone,
> > >
> > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns
> and
> > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now added
> > an
> > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the
> block
> > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of updating
> > the
> > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages
> to
> > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
> > >
> > >
> > > Best,
> > >
> > > Samir
> > >
> > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
> > >
> > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > >
> > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial relationship
> > with
> > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats
> been
> > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who
> been
> > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but before they
> > start
> > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to be
> > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the community
> > first
> > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild the
> > hen
> > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they recommend.
> > > >
> > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into the
> > 2030
> > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should
> have
> > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
> comprehensible
> > not
> > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we
> will
> > be
> > > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
> > unwillingness
> > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - d.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so
> > far, it
> > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
> > > > operate,
> > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan to
> > spin
> > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots of
> > buzz,
> > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am
> > wrong,
> > > > and
> > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside?
> > Block
> > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
> community.
> > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > Peter
> > > > > >
> > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
> wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> > On
> > > > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
> movement?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
> personally
> > at
> > > > > > you, Essie.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved the
> > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
> > resources
> > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this project
> > is a
> > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of the
> > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding
> > itself as
> > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities
> and
> > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance problems,
> > and
> > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't think
> > that
> > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
> Snøhetta
> > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've
> > been
> > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past
> few
> > > > > > months.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this
> > program
> > > > > > in its current form.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
> > associated
> > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on
> > whether
> > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a branding
> > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
> > project's
> > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
> > involved.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > GN.
> > > >
> > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > > > August
> > > > hosted by ESEAP
> > > >
> > > > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > Noongarpedia: https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > > Unsubscribe:
> https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
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> > > _______________________________________________
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In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably spends
more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.

Best
Yaroslav

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that.
> No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I just
> didn't hear that.
> Kind regards,
> (Comment in personal capacity)
>
> Thanks
>
>
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline and
> > share an invitation to join an event this month.
> >
> > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so we are
> > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening to all
> > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and
> > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the project
> > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and smaller
> > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month and
> > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a more
> > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
> planned
> > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals are
> > likewise shifted +4 weeks.
> >
> > But we do have things to share:
> >
> > *This month: live brand concept presentation!*
> >
> > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts referred
> to
> > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will
> > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. Snøhetta
> > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models from
> > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified concept.
> > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work around
> > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design system.
> > The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing after.
> You
> > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation of a
> > proposal for a naming convention or design.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Samir and the brand project team
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline
> >
> > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
> >
> > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
> >
> > [4] Join via Zoom:
> >
> > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
> >
> > Steam via Youtube Live:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
> >
> > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> >
> > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> >
> > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even
> > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29>
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
> > > <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns
> > and
> > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now
> added
> > > an
> > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the
> > block
> > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
> updating
> > > the
> > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages
> > to
> > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Samir
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
> > > >
> > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > >
> > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
> relationship
> > > with
> > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats
> > been
> > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who
> > been
> > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but before
> they
> > > start
> > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to
> be
> > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the community
> > > first
> > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild
> the
> > > hen
> > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
> recommend.
> > > > >
> > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into
> the
> > > 2030
> > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should
> > have
> > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
> > comprehensible
> > > not
> > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we
> > will
> > > be
> > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
> > > unwillingness
> > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - d.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > > > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so
> > > far, it
> > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
> > > > > operate,
> > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan
> to
> > > spin
> > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots
> of
> > > buzz,
> > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am
> > > wrong,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside?
> > > Block
> > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
> > community.
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
> > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> > > On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
> > movement?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
> > personally
> > > at
> > > > > > > you, Essie.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved
> the
> > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
> > > resources
> > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
> project
> > > is a
> > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of
> the
> > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding
> > > itself as
> > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities
> > and
> > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
> problems,
> > > and
> > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't
> think
> > > that
> > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
> > Snøhetta
> > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've
> > > been
> > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past
> > few
> > > > > > > months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this
> > > program
> > > > > > > in its current form.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
> > > associated
> > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on
> > > whether
> > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a branding
> > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
> > > project's
> > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
> > > involved.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > GN.
> > > > >
> > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > > > > August
> > > > > hosted by ESEAP
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > Noongarpedia:
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > > Unsubscribe:
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> > >
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> > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those whose voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just part of the heat in the kitchen.
Cheers,
Peter

-----Original Message-----
From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM
To: Wikimedia Mailing List
Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?

In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not think
he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably spends
more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.

Best
Yaroslav

On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com> wrote:

> There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that.
> No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I just
> didn't hear that.
> Kind regards,
> (Comment in personal capacity)
>
> Thanks
>
>
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi All,
> >
> > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline and
> > share an invitation to join an event this month.
> >
> > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so we are
> > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening to all
> > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and
> > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the project
> > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and smaller
> > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month and
> > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a more
> > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
> planned
> > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals are
> > likewise shifted +4 weeks.
> >
> > But we do have things to share:
> >
> > *This month: live brand concept presentation!*
> >
> > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts referred
> to
> > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will
> > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. Snøhetta
> > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models from
> > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified concept.
> > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work around
> > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design system.
> > The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing after.
> You
> > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation of a
> > proposal for a naming convention or design.
> >
> > Thank you!
> >
> > Samir and the brand project team
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline
> >
> > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
> >
> > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
> >
> > [4] Join via Zoom:
> >
> > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
> >
> > Steam via Youtube Live:
> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
> >
> > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> >
> > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> >
> > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even
> > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
> > >
> > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29>
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
> > > <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Hi everyone,
> > > >
> > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns
> > and
> > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now
> added
> > > an
> > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the
> > block
> > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
> updating
> > > the
> > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages
> > to
> > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > >
> > > > Samir
> > > >
> > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
> > > >
> > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > >
> > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
> relationship
> > > with
> > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats
> > been
> > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who
> > been
> > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but before
> they
> > > start
> > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to
> be
> > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the community
> > > first
> > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild
> the
> > > hen
> > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
> recommend.
> > > > >
> > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into
> the
> > > 2030
> > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should
> > have
> > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
> > comprehensible
> > > not
> > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we
> > will
> > > be
> > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
> > > unwillingness
> > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - d.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > > > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so
> > > far, it
> > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
> > > > > operate,
> > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan
> to
> > > spin
> > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots
> of
> > > buzz,
> > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am
> > > wrong,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside?
> > > Block
> > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
> > community.
> > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
> > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> > > On
> > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
> > movement?
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
> > personally
> > > at
> > > > > > > you, Essie.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved
> the
> > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
> > > resources
> > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
> project
> > > is a
> > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of
> the
> > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding
> > > itself as
> > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities
> > and
> > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
> problems,
> > > and
> > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't
> think
> > > that
> > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
> > Snøhetta
> > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've
> > > been
> > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past
> > few
> > > > > > > months.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this
> > > program
> > > > > > > in its current form.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
> > > associated
> > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on
> > > whether
> > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a branding
> > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
> > > project's
> > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
> > > involved.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > GN.
> > > > >
> > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > > > > August
> > > > > hosted by ESEAP
> > > > >
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> > > > > Noongarpedia:
> https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > > > _______________________________________________
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Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes
across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a
word with them here?


- d.

On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood
<peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>
> When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those whose voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just part of the heat in the kitchen.
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
> Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM
> To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
>
> In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not think
> he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably spends
> more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
>
> Best
> Yaroslav
>
> On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that.
> > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I just
> > didn't hear that.
> > Kind regards,
> > (Comment in personal capacity)
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> >
> > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hi All,
> > >
> > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline and
> > > share an invitation to join an event this month.
> > >
> > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so we are
> > > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening to all
> > > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and
> > > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the project
> > > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and smaller
> > > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month and
> > > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a more
> > > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
> > planned
> > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals are
> > > likewise shifted +4 weeks.
> > >
> > > But we do have things to share:
> > >
> > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!*
> > >
> > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts referred
> > to
> > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will
> > > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT. Snøhetta
> > > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models from
> > > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified concept.
> > > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work around
> > > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design system.
> > > The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing after.
> > You
> > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation of a
> > > proposal for a naming convention or design.
> > >
> > > Thank you!
> > >
> > > Samir and the brand project team
> > >
> > > [1]
> > >
> > >
> > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline
> > >
> > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
> > >
> > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
> > >
> > > [4] Join via Zoom:
> > >
> > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
> > >
> > > Steam via Youtube Live:
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
> > >
> > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > >
> > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > >
> > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is even
> > > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
> > > >
> > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
> > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > - d.
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
> > > > <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > >
> > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the concerns
> > > and
> > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now
> > added
> > > > an
> > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about the
> > > block
> > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
> > updating
> > > > the
> > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those pages
> > > to
> > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > Best,
> > > > >
> > > > > Samir
> > > > >
> > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
> > > > >
> > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > > >
> > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
> > relationship
> > > > with
> > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban thats
> > > been
> > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users who
> > > been
> > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but before
> > they
> > > > start
> > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there needs to
> > be
> > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the community
> > > > first
> > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to rebuild
> > the
> > > > hen
> > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
> > recommend.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped into
> > the
> > > > 2030
> > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that should
> > > have
> > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
> > > comprehensible
> > > > not
> > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why we
> > > will
> > > > be
> > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
> > > > unwillingness
> > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - d.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > > > > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have seen so
> > > > far, it
> > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on how we
> > > > > > operate,
> > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and plan
> > to
> > > > spin
> > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with lots
> > of
> > > > buzz,
> > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe I am
> > > > wrong,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the outside?
> > > > Block
> > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
> > > community.
> > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
> > > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> > > > On
> > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
> > > movement?
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
> > > personally
> > > > at
> > > > > > > > you, Essie.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta deserved
> > the
> > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward of
> > > > resources
> > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
> > project
> > > > is a
> > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component of
> > the
> > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF rebranding
> > > > itself as
> > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the communities
> > > and
> > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
> > problems,
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't
> > think
> > > > that
> > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
> > > Snøhetta
> > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and I've
> > > > been
> > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the past
> > > few
> > > > > > > > months.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with this
> > > > program
> > > > > > > > in its current form.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
> > > > associated
> > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view on
> > > > whether
> > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a branding
> > > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on the
> > > > project's
> > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
> > > > involved.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > GN.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > > > > > August
> > > > > > hosted by ESEAP
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > Noongarpedia:
> > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines and
> > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary
about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3]
in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development
process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project
itself.

The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4]. The
RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk page
[5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they
are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making
further conclusions here.

The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the
Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as
well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming
convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central concept
is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention
proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia"
with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.

Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming
conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline
[6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the
communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this
review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the
timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the full
proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation
leadership and the Board.

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/RfC_Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia

[2]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia#Report_about_this_RfC_by_the_Brand_Project_team

[3]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project

[4]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/FAQ

[5]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project




Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)

Community Brand and Marketing coordinator

Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>



On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:

> Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes
> across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a
> word with them here?
>
>
> - d.
>
> On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood
> <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> >
> > When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
> occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those whose
> voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just
> part of the heat in the kitchen.
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
> > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM
> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> >
> > In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
> think
> > he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably spends
> > more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
> >
> > Best
> > Yaroslav
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that.
> > > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
> just
> > > didn't hear that.
> > > Kind regards,
> > > (Comment in personal capacity)
> > >
> > > Thanks
> > >
> > >
> > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
> selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi All,
> > > >
> > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline
> and
> > > > share an invitation to join an event this month.
> > > >
> > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so
> we are
> > > > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening
> to all
> > > > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and
> > > > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the
> project
> > > > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
> smaller
> > > > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month
> and
> > > > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a
> more
> > > > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
> > > planned
> > > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals
> are
> > > > likewise shifted +4 weeks.
> > > >
> > > > But we do have things to share:
> > > >
> > > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!*
> > > >
> > > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
> referred
> > > to
> > > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will
> > > > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
> Snøhetta
> > > > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual models
> from
> > > > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified
> concept.
> > > > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work
> around
> > > > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design
> system.
> > > > The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing
> after.
> > > You
> > > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation
> of a
> > > > proposal for a naming convention or design.
> > > >
> > > > Thank you!
> > > >
> > > > Samir and the brand project team
> > > >
> > > > [1]
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline
> > > >
> > > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
> > > >
> > > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
> > > >
> > > > [4] Join via Zoom:
> > > >
> > > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
> > > >
> > > > Steam via Youtube Live:
> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
> > > >
> > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > >
> > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > >
> > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is
> even
> > > > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
> > > > >
> > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
> > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > - d.
> > > > >
> > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
> > > > > <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
> concerns
> > > > and
> > > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have now
> > > added
> > > > > an
> > > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about
> the
> > > > block
> > > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
> > > updating
> > > > > the
> > > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those
> pages
> > > > to
> > > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Best,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Samir
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
> > > relationship
> > > > > with
> > > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
> thats
> > > > been
> > > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many users
> who
> > > > been
> > > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but before
> > > they
> > > > > start
> > > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
> needs to
> > > be
> > > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the
> community
> > > > > first
> > > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
> rebuild
> > > the
> > > > > hen
> > > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
> > > recommend.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped
> into
> > > the
> > > > > 2030
> > > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
> should
> > > > have
> > > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
> > > > comprehensible
> > > > > not
> > > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how, why
> we
> > > > will
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com>
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
> > > > > unwillingness
> > > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > - d.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > > > > > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have
> seen so
> > > > > far, it
> > > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on
> how we
> > > > > > > operate,
> > > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and
> plan
> > > to
> > > > > spin
> > > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with
> lots
> > > of
> > > > > buzz,
> > > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe
> I am
> > > > > wrong,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the
> outside?
> > > > > Block
> > > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
> > > > community.
> > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
> > > > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> > > > > On
> > > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
> > > > movement?
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
> > > > personally
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > you, Essie.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
> deserved
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward
> of
> > > > > resources
> > > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
> > > project
> > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important component
> of
> > > the
> > > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
> rebranding
> > > > > itself as
> > > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
> communities
> > > > and
> > > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
> > > problems,
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I don't
> > > think
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
> > > > Snøhetta
> > > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia, and
> I've
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during the
> past
> > > > few
> > > > > > > > > months.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with
> this
> > > > > program
> > > > > > > > > in its current form.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
> > > > > associated
> > > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view
> on
> > > > > whether
> > > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a
> branding
> > > > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on
> the
> > > > > project's
> > > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should be
> > > > > involved.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > GN.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > > > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > > > > > > August
> > > > > > > hosted by ESEAP
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wikimania: https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > > Noongarpedia:
> > > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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Sorry dropped footnote #[6] while sending:
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline

Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)

Community Brand and Marketing coordinator

Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>



On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:22 AM Samir Elsharbaty <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:

> Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary
> about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3]
> in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development
> process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project
> itself.
>
> The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4]. The
> RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk page
> [5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they
> are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making
> further conclusions here.
>
> The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the
> Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as
> well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming
> convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central concept
> is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention
> proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia"
> with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
>
> Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming
> conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline
> [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the
> communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this
> review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the
> timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the full
> proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation
> leadership and the Board.
>
> [1]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/RfC_Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia
>
> [2]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia#Report_about_this_RfC_by_the_Brand_Project_team
>
> [3]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project
>
> [4]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/FAQ
>
> [5]
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project
>
>
>
>
> Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
>
> Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes
>> across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a
>> word with them here?
>>
>>
>> - d.
>>
>> On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood
>> <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>> >
>> > When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
>> occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those whose
>> voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just
>> part of the heat in the kitchen.
>> > Cheers,
>> > Peter
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
>> Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
>> > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM
>> > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
>> > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
>> >
>> > In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
>> think
>> > he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
>> spends
>> > more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
>> >
>> > Best
>> > Yaroslav
>> >
>> > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >
>> > > There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that.
>> > > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
>> just
>> > > didn't hear that.
>> > > Kind regards,
>> > > (Comment in personal capacity)
>> > >
>> > > Thanks
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
>> selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
>> > > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > > Hi All,
>> > > >
>> > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline
>> and
>> > > > share an invitation to join an event this month.
>> > > >
>> > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so
>> we are
>> > > > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening
>> to all
>> > > > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and
>> > > > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the
>> project
>> > > > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
>> smaller
>> > > > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month
>> and
>> > > > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a
>> more
>> > > > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
>> > > planned
>> > > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals
>> are
>> > > > likewise shifted +4 weeks.
>> > > >
>> > > > But we do have things to share:
>> > > >
>> > > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!*
>> > > >
>> > > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
>> referred
>> > > to
>> > > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team will
>> > > > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
>> Snøhetta
>> > > > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
>> models from
>> > > > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified
>> concept.
>> > > > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work
>> around
>> > > > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design
>> system.
>> > > > The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing
>> after.
>> > > You
>> > > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation
>> of a
>> > > > proposal for a naming convention or design.
>> > > >
>> > > > Thank you!
>> > > >
>> > > > Samir and the brand project team
>> > > >
>> > > > [1]
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline
>> > > >
>> > > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
>> > > >
>> > > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
>> > > >
>> > > > [4] Join via Zoom:
>> > > >
>> > > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
>> > > >
>> > > > Steam via Youtube Live:
>> > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
>> > > >
>> > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
>> > > >
>> > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
>> > > >
>> > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > >
>> > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > > >
>> > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is
>> even
>> > > > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
>> > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29>
>> > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > > > - d.
>> > > > >
>> > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
>> > > > > <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Hi everyone,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
>> concerns
>> > > > and
>> > > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have
>> now
>> > > added
>> > > > > an
>> > > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about
>> the
>> > > > block
>> > > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
>> > > updating
>> > > > > the
>> > > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those
>> pages
>> > > > to
>> > > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Best,
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Samir
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com>
>> > > wrote:
>> > > > > >
>> > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
>> > > relationship
>> > > > > with
>> > > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
>> thats
>> > > > been
>> > > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
>> users who
>> > > > been
>> > > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
>> before
>> > > they
>> > > > > start
>> > > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
>> needs to
>> > > be
>> > > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the
>> community
>> > > > > first
>> > > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
>> rebuild
>> > > the
>> > > > > hen
>> > > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
>> > > recommend.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped
>> into
>> > > the
>> > > > > 2030
>> > > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
>> should
>> > > > have
>> > > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
>> > > > comprehensible
>> > > > > not
>> > > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how,
>> why we
>> > > > will
>> > > > > be
>> > > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com
>> >
>> > > > wrote:
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
>> > > > > unwillingness
>> > > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > >
>> > > >
>> > >
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > - d.
>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
>> > > > > > > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have
>> seen so
>> > > > > far, it
>> > > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on
>> how we
>> > > > > > > operate,
>> > > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and
>> plan
>> > > to
>> > > > > spin
>> > > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with
>> lots
>> > > of
>> > > > > buzz,
>> > > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe
>> I am
>> > > > > wrong,
>> > > > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the
>> outside?
>> > > > > Block
>> > > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
>> > > > community.
>> > > > > > > > > Cheers,
>> > > > > > > > > Peter
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
>> > > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
>> > > > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
>> > > > > On
>> > > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W
>> > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
>> > > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
>> > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
>> > > > movement?
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Hello,
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
>> > > > personally
>> > > > > at
>> > > > > > > > > you, Essie.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
>> deserved
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward
>> of
>> > > > > resources
>> > > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
>> > > project
>> > > > > is a
>> > > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
>> component of
>> > > the
>> > > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
>> rebranding
>> > > > > itself as
>> > > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
>> communities
>> > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
>> > > problems,
>> > > > > and
>> > > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I
>> don't
>> > > think
>> > > > > that
>> > > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't involve
>> > > > Snøhetta
>> > > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia,
>> and I've
>> > > > > been
>> > > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during
>> the past
>> > > > few
>> > > > > > > > > months.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with
>> this
>> > > > > program
>> > > > > > > > > in its current form.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and spending
>> > > > > associated
>> > > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view
>> on
>> > > > > whether
>> > > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a
>> branding
>> > > > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on
>> the
>> > > > > project's
>> > > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should
>> be
>> > > > > involved.
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > Pine
>> > > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> and
>> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
>> > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
>> > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
>> > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
>> > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
>> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
>> and
>> > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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>> > > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
>> > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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>> and
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>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > --
>> > > > > > > GN.
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
>> > > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
>> > > > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
>> > > > > > > August
>> > > > > > > hosted by ESEAP
>> > > > > > >
>> > > > > > > Wikimania:
>> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
>> > > > > > > Noongarpedia:
>> > > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
>> > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
>> > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 09:49, Samir Elsharbaty
<selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:

> While having Wikipedia as a central concept
> is a project requirement,

... and here we have the source of all the problems here: the answer
has been predetermined.


- d.

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This is a reply Shamir, but it is more a reply to the process and Wikimedia
Foundation.

Reading [1] my immediate thought is that whoever wrote it is more focused
on reputing the core finding than respecting the outcome. It is a reaction
to the statement “We do not know what the Wikimedia Foundation’s new name
would be, only that it would utilize Wikipedia not Wikimedia.” and 91% says
“no”. Still the process continues as nothing has happen. When 91% opposes a
change in volunteer organization you stop and listen, this is an earthquake.

I opposed the name change, even if I don't really agree with the RFC, but
what happen later I find perhaps more troublesome. This shows a real lack
of understanding of why people objected to the idea. People have said no to
this several times now, and the process continues like nothing has happen.
Someone must clarify what this is, and who is behind it, and why, because
as it is now the chance of onboarding the communities are virtually zero.

As it is now I would say call it a failure, and make a full halt.

[1]
https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/RfC_Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia

John Erling Blad
/jeblad

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:49 AM Samir Elsharbaty <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
wrote:

> Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary
> about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3]
> in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the development
> process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project
> itself.
>
> The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4]. The
> RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk page
> [5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they
> are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before making
> further conclusions here.
>
> The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the
> Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as
> well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming
> convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central concept
> is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention
> proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia"
> with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
>
> Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming
> conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline
> [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the
> communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this
> review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the
> timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the full
> proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation
> leadership and the Board.
>
> [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/RfC_Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia
>
> [2]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia#Report_about_this_RfC_by_the_Brand_Project_team
>
> [3]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project
>
> [4]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/FAQ
>
> [5]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project
>
>
>
>
> Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
>
> Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
>
> Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes
> > across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a
> > word with them here?
> >
> >
> > - d.
> >
> > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood
> > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
> > occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
> whose
> > voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just
> > part of the heat in the kitchen.
> > > Cheers,
> > > Peter
> > >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org] On
> > Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
> > > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM
> > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> > >
> > > In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
> > think
> > > he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
> spends
> > > more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
> > >
> > > Best
> > > Yaroslav
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >
> > > > There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that.
> > > > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
> > just
> > > > didn't hear that.
> > > > Kind regards,
> > > > (Comment in personal capacity)
> > > >
> > > > Thanks
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
> > selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > Hi All,
> > > > >
> > > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project timeline
> > and
> > > > > share an invitation to join an event this month.
> > > > >
> > > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world, so
> > we are
> > > > > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are happening
> > to all
> > > > > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time and
> > > > > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the
> > project
> > > > > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
> > smaller
> > > > > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by month
> > and
> > > > > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on a
> > more
> > > > > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming discussions
> > > > planned
> > > > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design proposals
> > are
> > > > > likewise shifted +4 weeks.
> > > > >
> > > > > But we do have things to share:
> > > > >
> > > > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!*
> > > > >
> > > > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
> > referred
> > > > to
> > > > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
> will
> > > > > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
> > Snøhetta
> > > > > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
> models
> > from
> > > > > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified
> > concept.
> > > > > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming work
> > around
> > > > > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design
> > system.
> > > > > The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing
> > after.
> > > > You
> > > > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a presentation
> > of a
> > > > > proposal for a naming convention or design.
> > > > >
> > > > > Thank you!
> > > > >
> > > > > Samir and the brand project team
> > > > >
> > > > > [1]
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline
> > > > >
> > > > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
> > > > >
> > > > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
> > > > >
> > > > > [4] Join via Zoom:
> > > > >
> > > > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
> > > > >
> > > > > Steam via Youtube Live:
> > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
> > > > >
> > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > > >
> > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > > >
> > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this is
> > even
> > > > > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
> > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > - d.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
> > > > > > <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
> > concerns
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have
> now
> > > > added
> > > > > > an
> > > > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details about
> > the
> > > > > block
> > > > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
> > > > updating
> > > > > > the
> > > > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add those
> > pages
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Samir
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <gnangarra@gmail.com
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
> > > > relationship
> > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
> > thats
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
> users
> > who
> > > > > been
> > > > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
> before
> > > > they
> > > > > > start
> > > > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
> > needs to
> > > > be
> > > > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the
> > community
> > > > > > first
> > > > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
> > rebuild
> > > > the
> > > > > > hen
> > > > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
> > > > recommend.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been pumped
> > into
> > > > the
> > > > > > 2030
> > > > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
> > should
> > > > > have
> > > > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
> > > > > comprehensible
> > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how,
> why
> > we
> > > > > will
> > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
> dgerard@gmail.com>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
> > > > > > unwillingness
> > > > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > - d.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > > > > > > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have
> > seen so
> > > > > > far, it
> > > > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework on
> > how we
> > > > > > > > operate,
> > > > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care, and
> > plan
> > > > to
> > > > > > spin
> > > > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages with
> > lots
> > > > of
> > > > > > buzz,
> > > > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid. Maybe
> > I am
> > > > > > wrong,
> > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the
> > outside?
> > > > > > Block
> > > > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
> > > > > community.
> > > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
> > > > > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> > > > > > On
> > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a
> > > > > movement?
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
> > > > > personally
> > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > > you, Essie.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
> > deserved
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good steward
> > of
> > > > > > resources
> > > > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that this
> > > > project
> > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
> component
> > of
> > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
> > rebranding
> > > > > > itself as
> > > > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
> > communities
> > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
> > > > problems,
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I
> don't
> > > > think
> > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't
> involve
> > > > > Snøhetta
> > > > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia,
> and
> > I've
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during
> the
> > past
> > > > > few
> > > > > > > > > > months.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with
> > this
> > > > > > program
> > > > > > > > > > in its current form.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
> spending
> > > > > > associated
> > > > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's view
> > on
> > > > > > whether
> > > > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a
> > branding
> > > > > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide on
> > the
> > > > > > project's
> > > > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant should
> be
> > > > > > involved.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> and
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
> > > > > > > > > > New messages to: Wikimedia-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > > > > > > Unsubscribe:
> > > > > > https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/wikimedia-l,
> > > > > > > > > <mailto:wikimedia-l-request@lists.wikimedia.org
> > > > > ?subject=unsubscribe>
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Mailing_lists/Guidelines
> and
> > > > > > > > > https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia-l
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> > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > GN.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > > > > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > > > > > > > August
> > > > > > > > hosted by ESEAP
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wikimania:
> https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > > > Noongarpedia:
> > > > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
> > > > > > > > Photo Gallery: http://gnangarra.redbubble.com
> > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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Since the process has decided its not hearing that the community doesnt
want the change why continue to pretend the communities input or interest
in the project is even wanted.

On Sat, 11 Apr 2020 at 17:25, John Erling Blad <jeblad@gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a reply Shamir, but it is more a reply to the process and Wikimedia
> Foundation.
>
> Reading [1] my immediate thought is that whoever wrote it is more focused
> on reputing the core finding than respecting the outcome. It is a reaction
> to the statement “We do not know what the Wikimedia Foundation’s new name
> would be, only that it would utilize Wikipedia not Wikimedia.” and 91% says
> “no”. Still the process continues as nothing has happen. When 91% opposes a
> change in volunteer organization you stop and listen, this is an
> earthquake.
>
> I opposed the name change, even if I don't really agree with the RFC, but
> what happen later I find perhaps more troublesome. This shows a real lack
> of understanding of why people objected to the idea. People have said no to
> this several times now, and the process continues like nothing has happen.
> Someone must clarify what this is, and who is behind it, and why, because
> as it is now the chance of onboarding the communities are virtually zero.
>
> As it is now I would say call it a failure, and make a full halt.
>
> [1]
>
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/RfC_Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia
>
> John Erling Blad
> /jeblad
>
> On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 10:49 AM Samir Elsharbaty <
> selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi, the Brand team has been watching the RfC and has written a summary
> > about it [1] that was shared both in the RfC [2] and the project page [3]
> > in Meta. The team has integrated the feedback of the RfC in the
> development
> > process, just as we did with the activities organized by the project
> > itself.
> >
> > The RfC is covered in the main project page as well as in the FAQ [4].
> The
> > RfC has been a recurrent topic of discussion in the Brand project talk
> page
> > [5], where we are answering questions and discussing topics whenever they
> > are posted. We recommend you to have a look at these updates before
> making
> > further conclusions here.
> >
> > The RfC is about the use of the word “Wikipedia” in the name of the
> > Foundation, and by extension the names of affiliates were discussed as
> > well. The project team has clarified that many options for a naming
> > convention are being explored. While having Wikipedia as a central
> concept
> > is a project requirement, It is very unlikely that any naming convention
> > proposal will be based on a simple substitution of the word "Wikimedia"
> > with the word "Wikipedia". Brand systems offer many more possibilities.
> >
> > Another important point to clarify is that the proposals for naming
> > conventions haven’t been defined yet. According to the project timeline
> > [6], several proposals for a naming convention will be shared with the
> > communities for feedback in May, at the earliest. At the end of this
> > review, one proposal will be selected and refined. You can check the
> > timeline to learn about further phases with public reviews before the
> full
> > proposal for a brand system is presented to the Wikimedia Foundation
> > leadership and the Board.
> >
> > [1]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/RfC_Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia
> >
> > [2]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Requests_for_comment/Should_the_Foundation_call_itself_Wikipedia#Report_about_this_RfC_by_the_Brand_Project_team
> >
> > [3]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project
> >
> > [4]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/FAQ
> >
> > [5]
> >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Talk:Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> >
> > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> >
> > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 1:12 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Yes. Who's the person telling Samir to post this stuff, which comes
> > > across as aggressively ignoring all feedback to date? Could we have a
> > > word with them here?
> > >
> > >
> > > - d.
> > >
> > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 14:12, Peter Southwood
> > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > When you speak for someone who is hard of listening, it is an
> > > occupational hazard that you will be shouted at occasionally by those
> > whose
> > > voices are being ignored. It is not necessarily anything personal, just
> > > part of the heat in the kitchen.
> > > > Cheers,
> > > > Peter
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> On
> > > Behalf Of Yaroslav Blanter
> > > > Sent: Friday, April 10, 2020 11:28 AM
> > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we as a movement?
> > > >
> > > > In all honesty, this should not have been directed at Samir. I do not
> > > think
> > > > he has the authority to stop the process. And whoever has probably
> > spends
> > > > more time in Twitter that in Wikimedia projects.
> > > >
> > > > Best
> > > > Yaroslav
> > > >
> > > > On Fri, Apr 10, 2020 at 11:12 AM Tito Dutta <trulytito@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > There is something called [[WP:IDHT,]] i.e. I didn't hear that.
> > > > > No matter how many times, how many people (90% in the RFC) speak, I
> > > just
> > > > > didn't hear that.
> > > > > Kind regards,
> > > > > (Comment in personal capacity)
> > > > >
> > > > > Thanks
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On Fri, 10 Apr 2020 at 00:15, Samir Elsharbaty <
> > > selsharbaty@wikimedia.org>
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > Hi All,
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We wanted to follow up with a brief update on the project
> timeline
> > > and
> > > > > > share an invitation to join an event this month.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > We know there continues to be so much uncertainty in the world,
> so
> > > we are
> > > > > > slowing down the process of the project. Big changes are
> happening
> > > to all
> > > > > > of us these days. We want to make sure that we respect the time
> and
> > > > > > priorities of the project collaborators. This means updating the
> > > project
> > > > > > timeline approach to have more flexibility for participants and
> > > smaller
> > > > > > time commitments [1], revising the project schedule month by
> month
> > > and
> > > > > > keeping the Brand Network [2] and other participants informed on
> a
> > > more
> > > > > > regular basis with any updates and changes. The naming
> discussions
> > > > > planned
> > > > > > for April are now pushed to May, at the earliest. Design
> proposals
> > > are
> > > > > > likewise shifted +4 weeks.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > But we do have things to share:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > *This month: live brand concept presentation!*
> > > > > >
> > > > > > To honor, celebrate, and conclude the work around the concepts
> > > referred
> > > > > to
> > > > > > in Essie’s email above [3], Snohetta and the Brand Project team
> > will
> > > > > > present the Unified Concept LIVE on 16 April, 15:00 - 16:00 GMT.
> > > Snøhetta
> > > > > > will explain how they used the ideas, feedback and conceptual
> > models
> > > from
> > > > > > the workshops and online exercises to arrive at a final, unified
> > > concept.
> > > > > > This unified concept will be the foundation for the upcoming
> work
> > > around
> > > > > > the naming conventions, visual decisions, and the overall design
> > > system.
> > > > > > The session will also be recorded and made available for viewing
> > > after.
> > > > > You
> > > > > > can join us using these links. [4] Note: this is not a
> presentation
> > > of a
> > > > > > proposal for a naming convention or design.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Thank you!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Samir and the brand project team
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [1]
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Communications/Wikimedia_brands/2030_movement_brand_project/Timeline
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [2] https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Brand_Network
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [3] https://brandingwikipedia.org/concepts/
> > > > > >
> > > > > > [4] Join via Zoom:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > https://wikimedia.zoom.us/j/769565325
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Steam via Youtube Live:
> > > > > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xS72O6Si94Q
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 10:32 AM David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com
> >
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > The article itself is spammy brochure-style nonsense, and this
> is
> > > even
> > > > > > > after some cleanup. Editorial eyes welcomed.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_(company)
> > > > > <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sn%C3%B8hetta_%28company%29>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > - d.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Wed, 25 Mar 2020 at 23:16, Samir Elsharbaty
> > > > > > > <selsharbaty@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Hi everyone,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > The Brand Project Team felt it was important to address the
> > > concerns
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > questions around Snøhetta and the English Wikipedia, and have
> > now
> > > > > added
> > > > > > > an
> > > > > > > > FAQ about it. [1] Please refer there for the full details
> about
> > > the
> > > > > > block
> > > > > > > > and what is being done. The project team is in the process of
> > > > > updating
> > > > > > > the
> > > > > > > > project materials, including the FAQ, so feel free to add
> those
> > > pages
> > > > > > to
> > > > > > > > your watchlist to stay up to date on the latest information.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Samir
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > [1] https://w.wiki/LEF
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Samir Elsharbaty (he/him)
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Community Brand and Marketing coordinator
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Wikimedia Foundation <https://wikimediafoundation.org/>
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > On Tue, Mar 24, 2020 at 4:43 AM Gnangarra <
> gnangarra@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > This does have feeling of a company creating a financial
> > > > > relationship
> > > > > > > with
> > > > > > > > > the Foundation as way to bypass or backdoor a community ban
> > > thats
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > reviewed already. Over the years I've worked with many
> > users
> > > who
> > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > blocked and help them become productive contributors but
> > before
> > > > > they
> > > > > > > start
> > > > > > > > > making recommendation or decisions about who we are there
> > > needs to
> > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > something done to get them back to good standing with the
> > > community
> > > > > > > first
> > > > > > > > > untiil thats taken place. It's like asking the fox to
> > > rebuild
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > hen
> > > > > > > > > house, I just dont see how I could support anything they
> > > > > recommend.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > After the dollars, and t=volunteer time that has been
> pumped
> > > into
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > 2030
> > > > > > > > > strategy shouldnt we already know who we are, as it is that
> > > should
> > > > > > have
> > > > > > > > > been the key starting point for a strategy process. Its
> > > > > > comprehensible
> > > > > > > not
> > > > > > > > > to have known or explored that before deciding where, how,
> > why
> > > we
> > > > > > will
> > > > > > > be
> > > > > > > > > doing anything for the next 10 years.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > On Tue, 24 Mar 2020 at 03:20, David Gerard <
> > dgerard@gmail.com>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > Particularly as they've demonstrated by their actions an
> > > > > > > unwillingness
> > > > > > > > > > to work with Wikipedia properly:
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > >
> >
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Archive318#Review_of_User:Sn%C3%B8hettaAS_block_please
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > - d.
> > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > On Sat, 14 Mar 2020 at 04:34, Peter Southwood
> > > > > > > > > > <peter.southwood@telkomsa.net> wrote:
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I would agree with this in principle. From what I have
> > > seen so
> > > > > > > far, it
> > > > > > > > > > looks like either Snøhetta have not done their homework
> on
> > > how we
> > > > > > > > > operate,
> > > > > > > > > > or they have the arrogance of PR agencies, don't care,
> and
> > > plan
> > > > > to
> > > > > > > spin
> > > > > > > > > > their way through with smoke and mirrors, flashy pages
> with
> > > lots
> > > > > of
> > > > > > > buzz,
> > > > > > > > > > little content and all the dialogue they can't avoid.
> Maybe
> > > I am
> > > > > > > wrong,
> > > > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > they have just been badly briefed. Who can tell from the
> > > outside?
> > > > > > > Block
> > > > > > > > > > evasion does not bode well for their understanding of the
> > > > > > community.
> > > > > > > > > > > Cheers,
> > > > > > > > > > > Peter
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > > > > > From: Wikimedia-l [mailto:
> > > > > > wikimedia-l-bounces@lists.wikimedia.org]
> > > > > > > On
> > > > > > > > > > Behalf Of Pine W
> > > > > > > > > > > Sent: Friday, March 13, 2020 8:13 PM
> > > > > > > > > > > To: Wikimedia Mailing List
> > > > > > > > > > > Subject: Re: [Wikimedia-l] Brand Project: Who are we
> as a
> > > > > > movement?
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Hello,
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > First, a disclaimer that these comments aren't directed
> > > > > > personally
> > > > > > > at
> > > > > > > > > > > you, Essie.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Even if money was unlimited, I thought that Snøhetta
> > > deserved
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > community's trust, and I felt that WMF was a good
> steward
> > > of
> > > > > > > resources
> > > > > > > > > > > (all of which are questionable), I don't think that
> this
> > > > > project
> > > > > > > is a
> > > > > > > > > > > good idea. Wikidata is an increasingly important
> > component
> > > of
> > > > > the
> > > > > > > > > > > Wikiverse, and there are a some problems with WMF
> > > rebranding
> > > > > > > itself as
> > > > > > > > > > > the Wikipedia Foundation including the risk to the
> > > communities
> > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > affiliates from WMF's political adventures, governance
> > > > > problems,
> > > > > > > and
> > > > > > > > > > > occasional high profile clashes with the community. I
> > don't
> > > > > think
> > > > > > > that
> > > > > > > > > > > the costs or the risks here make sense, I wouldn't
> > involve
> > > > > > Snøhetta
> > > > > > > > > > > given its apparent block evasion on English Wikipedia,
> > and
> > > I've
> > > > > > > been
> > > > > > > > > > > unimpressed with WMF's handling of this process during
> > the
> > > past
> > > > > > few
> > > > > > > > > > > months.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > I am fine with discussions about branding, but not with
> > > this
> > > > > > > program
> > > > > > > > > > > in its current form.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Given the choice, I would freeze this project and
> > spending
> > > > > > > associated
> > > > > > > > > > > with it pending a Meta RfC regarding the community's
> view
> > > on
> > > > > > > whether
> > > > > > > > > > > this project should continue. If the community wants a
> > > branding
> > > > > > > > > > > project to continue, I would let the community decide
> on
> > > the
> > > > > > > project's
> > > > > > > > > > > parameters and budget, and what if any consultant
> should
> > be
> > > > > > > involved.
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > Pine
> > > > > > > > > > > ( https://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Pine )
> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
> > > > > > > > > > > Wikimedia-l mailing list, guidelines at:
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> > > > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________
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> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > > GN.
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > *Power of Diverse Collaboration*
> > > > > > > > > *Sharing knowledge brings people together*
> > > > > > > > > Wikimania Bangkok 2021
> > > > > > > > > August
> > > > > > > > > hosted by ESEAP
> > > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > > Wikimania:
> > https://wikimania.wikimedia.org/wiki/User:Gnangarra
> > > > > > > > > Noongarpedia:
> > > > > https://incubator.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wp/nys/Main_Page
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Wikimania Bangkok 2021
August
hosted by ESEAP

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