Mailing List Archive

Anthere wrote:
> Since I am on it
> (http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2006-September/010021.html),
> I'd like us to think along what we could more or less easily do to push
> our visibility and participation in African countries (may be the the
> same in other parts of the world as well).
>
> I have identified the following solutions. Are they others ?
>
> 1. Increase awareness in the project
>
OLPC could have been extremely relevant here, sadly they only use the
Wikipedia content and provide it in a different format. There is a Yahoo
group called "Afrophonewikis" where many of the issues to do with
African languages are discussed. At Kasahorow work is done on a project
proposal to support MediaWiki in the Ghanaian languages. WiktionaryZ is
slowly but surely building portal pages for both countries and
languages; this is to make people feel that every language is considered
relevant.

For the Wikimedia Foundation it is absolutely essential that every
officer and employee supports the idea of our projects being
multilingual. This being a core value of what we do means that there is
no room to express the opinion that the English language is to be
preferred over "native" languages.
> 1.1 Identification of conferences where our participation might be
> relevant (focused on ICT, Education, Sustainable development, Culture)
> Contact with organisers and proposal to participate and make presentations
>
This would mean coordination of people who have something to contribute
here and making sure that there is a budget for people to go there. I
can effectively explain how many of the parts come together, I have
effectively involved NGO's and we are working on projects to create
content in (for Wikipedia) less developed languages.
> 1.2. Identification of big media group (make a list).
> Contact and proposition of articles. Language focus: english, french,
> arab, portuguese.
> Of course, include them in the list of press release.
>
I take it that you want to engage the media in the countries themselves,
this is more effectively done by local people. They will be able to do
so effectively when they know themselves empowered to do so. This means
that local chapters may be really relevant here. They are because they
can handle money and they provide a front to the people who do things on
the ground. If you want to stimulate local languages, learn how it is
done by others, what is done in Neapolitan is one good example but there
are more like it.
> 1.3. Identification of specialized press (make a list)
> Focus: Linux fanatics :-) Contact and proposition of articles
>
I think the Linux fanatics are overrated, they have many of the concepts
right, they have the fanatism wrong. We should reach out to everyone we
do not want to be associated and identified with a fanatic fringe. I
understand and appreciate the wink, but some of these people are fringe
and are more of a burden than of a help.
> 1.4. Identification of major NGO working on education and woman groups.
> Contact. Provide them with a bit of "advertisment".
>
When you want to get NGO's to work on our projects, you do not only want
to inform them, you also want to engage them. It means that a
substantial amount of time will be involved. The time frame in which
they operate is quite different, they work with budget cycles,
deadlines. NGO's are often really enthusiastic but for them wikis and
their methodology are new; they have to be initiated in the wiki way. It
takes time and perseverance.
> 1.5. Contact of all major universities.
> propose them teleconference (if they are equipped) or irl presentation
> (if that fit well with a formal conference or a trip)
>
I have not done that systematically yet, but it is extremely likely that
I will get many more contacts in universities soon.
>
> 2. Favor production of content in languages already developped
> Cases such as RAFT or Wiki voices. If necessary, find money and someone
> to help coordinating this to ensure success.
>
It is helpful if there is a place where these things are coordinated. A
language subcommittee of the SPC could do many of these things.. It is
just for this subcommittee to be allowed to start. Finding money is not
that hard. It just needs a plan that needs implementation. Approving
plans for funding and incorporation in the WMF would be a step towards
the notion of "donations, putting your money where your mouth is"
(details on Meta).
> 3. Favor production of content in local languages
>
> * Help Beta Wiki
> * Contact local NGOs for help in translation interface
> * Identification (now) of major languages (according to read/write
> coverage)
>
>
There is agreement between Brion and Nikerabbit that Beta Wiki will be
hosted on a more convenient place. This is an extremely important thing
and I am grateful to Brion to help out on this one.

Translating the User Interface only for our projects is a missed
opportunity. MediaWiki is extremely powerful software. When the
localisation is also seen as an opportunity to have this great tool
available, it becomes something that has relevance to an organisation
for itself. This is an extremely powerful argument. It also underlines
why the localisation in a wikipedia is not such a great idea; it's scope
is only that project and there is no added benefit.
> Here are some thougts. Are they others ?
> Who feel like helping take care of some of those points ?
>
It is important to be enthusiastic about what we do and it is as
important to have a good understanding what the WMF does and what it's
projects are. It is however also really relevant to tell that the WMF is
part of a growing ecosphere with many other projects like Wikitravel,
Yellowiki, Wikia being part of it. This shows that the wikiway is not
only the Wikipedia way.

I have been taking care of some of these points because it helps
WiktionaryZ. For WiktionaryZ it is relevant that we are part of this
whole wiki thing. The strength of what we do is achieved in the many
different things we do, try and achieve. We would be better served if we
cooperated more and bickered less.

Thanks,
GerardM

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/afrophonewikis/ - Yahoo group on
supporting African language
http://www.kasahorow.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page - Wiki for a
project plan for supporting Ghanaian languages
http://wiktionaryz.org - Pre alpha project to do lexicology, terminology
and ontology has both language and country portals
http://nike.users.idler.fi/dev/index.php?title=ISO-639-3/gil
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Gerard Meijssen wrote:
> Anthere wrote:
>>1.2. Identification of big media group (make a list).
>>Contact and proposition of articles. Language focus: english, french,
>>arab, portuguese.
>>Of course, include them in the list of press release.
>>
>
> I take it that you want to engage the media in the countries themselves,
> this is more effectively done by local people. They will be able to do
> so effectively when they know themselves empowered to do so. This means
> that local chapters may be really relevant here. They are because they
> can handle money and they provide a front to the people who do things on
> the ground. If you want to stimulate local languages, learn how it is
> done by others, what is done in Neapolitan is one good example but there
> are more like it.


Can you explain more about what is done in Neapolitan language ?


>>1.3. Identification of specialized press (make a list)
>>Focus: Linux fanatics :-) Contact and proposition of articles
>>
>
> I think the Linux fanatics are overrated, they have many of the concepts
> right, they have the fanatism wrong. We should reach out to everyone we
> do not want to be associated and identified with a fanatic fringe. I
> understand and appreciate the wink, but some of these people are fringe
> and are more of a burden than of a help.

Frankly... I have seen most languages start thanks to developers
participation. And remember quite well that for a rather long time, the
only articles we got were only in tech journals. This is something we
should rely on.

>>1.4. Identification of major NGO working on education and woman groups.
>>Contact. Provide them with a bit of "advertisment".
>>
>
> When you want to get NGO's to work on our projects, you do not only want
> to inform them, you also want to engage them. It means that a
> substantial amount of time will be involved. The time frame in which
> they operate is quite different, they work with budget cycles,
> deadlines. NGO's are often really enthusiastic but for them wikis and
> their methodology are new; they have to be initiated in the wiki way. It
> takes time and perseverance.

Correct

>>1.5. Contact of all major universities.
>>propose them teleconference (if they are equipped) or irl presentation
>>(if that fit well with a formal conference or a trip)
>>
>
> I have not done that systematically yet, but it is extremely likely that
> I will get many more contacts in universities soon.

ok

>>2. Favor production of content in languages already developped
>>Cases such as RAFT or Wiki voices. If necessary, find money and someone
>>to help coordinating this to ensure success.
>>
>
> It is helpful if there is a place where these things are coordinated. A
> language subcommittee of the SPC could do many of these things.. It is
> just for this subcommittee to be allowed to start. Finding money is not
> that hard. It just needs a plan that needs implementation. Approving
> plans for funding and incorporation in the WMF would be a step towards
> the notion of "donations, putting your money where your mouth is"
> (details on Meta).

Right now, the problem seems to be that nobody is willing to take time
doing plans. Doing plans is not as funny as writing articles.
For example, I suggested a long time ago we should build up a list of
african media contacts to send press releases to. I started doing that a
long time ago for Algeria and Marocco (press releases sent there never
raised any attention though). But a much more extensive list needs to be
set up and used. But no list has ever been made as far as I know. Saying
"it needs a plan" is good, that does not make it happen. Approving plans
is good as well, but needs a plan in the first place.

I am unsure how to approach this.

>>3. Favor production of content in local languages
>>
>>* Help Beta Wiki
>>* Contact local NGOs for help in translation interface
>>* Identification (now) of major languages (according to read/write
>>coverage)
>>
>>
>
> There is agreement between Brion and Nikerabbit that Beta Wiki will be
> hosted on a more convenient place. This is an extremely important thing
> and I am grateful to Brion to help out on this one.
>
> Translating the User Interface only for our projects is a missed
> opportunity. MediaWiki is extremely powerful software. When the
> localisation is also seen as an opportunity to have this great tool
> available, it becomes something that has relevance to an organisation
> for itself. This is an extremely powerful argument. It also underlines
> why the localisation in a wikipedia is not such a great idea; it's scope
> is only that project and there is no added benefit.

Here, I appear to have lost you on the way... can you re-explain ?

>>Here are some thougts. Are they others ?
>>Who feel like helping take care of some of those points ?
>>
>
> It is important to be enthusiastic about what we do and it is as
> important to have a good understanding what the WMF does and what it's
> projects are. It is however also really relevant to tell that the WMF is
> part of a growing ecosphere with many other projects like Wikitravel,
> Yellowiki, Wikia being part of it. This shows that the wikiway is not
> only the Wikipedia way.
>
> I have been taking care of some of these points because it helps
> WiktionaryZ. For WiktionaryZ it is relevant that we are part of this
> whole wiki thing. The strength of what we do is achieved in the many
> different things we do, try and achieve. We would be better served if we
> cooperated more and bickered less.

indeed

I went back to the meta page on the topic. They are hopelessly outdated.

Well, my first move will be to contact back this BBC journalist as well
as the journalist from IT & Telecom Digest. One step at a time.

> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/afrophonewikis/ - Yahoo group on
> supporting African language
> http://www.kasahorow.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page - Wiki for a
> project plan for supporting Ghanaian languages
> http://wiktionaryz.org - Pre alpha project to do lexicology, terminology
> and ontology has both language and country portals
> http://nike.users.idler.fi/dev/index.php?title=ISO-639-3/gil

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Anthere wrote:
> Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>
>> Anthere wrote:
>>
>>> 1.2. Identification of big media group (make a list).
>>> Contact and proposition of articles. Language focus: english, french,
>>> arab, portuguese.
>>> Of course, include them in the list of press release.
>>>
>>>
>> I take it that you want to engage the media in the countries themselves,
>> this is more effectively done by local people. They will be able to do
>> so effectively when they know themselves empowered to do so. This means
>> that local chapters may be really relevant here. They are because they
>> can handle money and they provide a front to the people who do things on
>> the ground. If you want to stimulate local languages, learn how it is
>> done by others, what is done in Neapolitan is one good example but there
>> are more like it.
>>
>
> Can you explain more about what is done in Neapolitan language ?
>
The Neapolitan language is a language that is considered by many to be
inferior. People are not educated in it, while the Neapolitans are a
proud people many sadly do not take pride in their own language. In
order to promote the Neapolitan language, everything is done to
stimulate the recognition of the Neapolitan language. Stubs are created
to create a tapestry of articles that are linked. Translation tools are
used to generate content. There is a newsletter in Neapolitan to people
who are interested. People living as far afield as the USA and Australia
are contacted when they show their interest in the Neapolitan language.
There have been articles in the press about the project. Neapolitan
traditions are covered, local interest is sought.

As the Italian chapter now has a coordinator for the regional languages,
it will be interesting to see how the chapter will be able to facilitate
projects like the Neapolitan wikipedia.. I know for instance that the
Neapolitan project would love to have a Neapolitan dictionary to scan
and OCR as well as support for scanning original Neapolitan literature
(most of is it in the public domain).
>>> 1.3. Identification of specialized press (make a list)
>>> Focus: Linux fanatics :-) Contact and proposition of articles
>>>
>> I think the Linux fanatics are overrated, they have many of the concepts
>> right, they have the fanatism wrong. We should reach out to everyone we
>> do not want to be associated and identified with a fanatic fringe. I
>> understand and appreciate the wink, but some of these people are fringe
>> and are more of a burden than of a help.
>>
>
> Frankly... I have seen most languages start thanks to developers
> participation. And remember quite well that for a rather long time, the
> only articles we got were only in tech journals. This is something we
> should rely on.
>
It may be true that many of our "languages" (you mean Wikipedia ?) were
started by developers, but since then many other projects have started
and many of these projects have not been started by developers. Many of
these projects are doing well. When you consider the press coverage we
are getting, you will find that we are now have traction in the main
press. The effect of publications like the one in Nature, the
Seigenthaler interview on CNN proved extremely valuable. This is where
our current relevant exposure comes from. A slashdot article does no
longer generate a slashdot effect.

I am not suggesting that we should cold shoulder the computer press.
They are relevant to a large part of the wiki community. What I am
saying is that the Linux fanatics are not and have never been that
important. The people who became involved in our projects have been too
level headed to call them fanatics.

>>> 1.4. Identification of major NGO working on education and woman groups.
>>> Contact. Provide them with a bit of "advertisment".
>>>
>>>
>> When you want to get NGO's to work on our projects, you do not only want
>> to inform them, you also want to engage them. It means that a
>> substantial amount of time will be involved. The time frame in which
>> they operate is quite different, they work with budget cycles,
>> deadlines. NGO's are often really enthusiastic but for them wikis and
>> their methodology are new; they have to be initiated in the wiki way. It
>> takes time and perseverance.
>>
>
> Correct
>
>
>>> 1.5. Contact of all major universities.
>>> propose them teleconference (if they are equipped) or irl presentation
>>> (if that fit well with a formal conference or a trip)
>>>
>>>
>> I have not done that systematically yet, but it is extremely likely that
>> I will get many more contacts in universities soon.
>>
>
> ok
>
>
>>> 2. Favor production of content in languages already developped
>>> Cases such as RAFT or Wiki voices. If necessary, find money and someone
>>> to help coordinating this to ensure success.
>>>
>>>
>> It is helpful if there is a place where these things are coordinated. A
>> language subcommittee of the SPC could do many of these things.. It is
>> just for this subcommittee to be allowed to start. Finding money is not
>> that hard. It just needs a plan that needs implementation. Approving
>> plans for funding and incorporation in the WMF would be a step towards
>> the notion of "donations, putting your money where your mouth is"
>> (details on Meta).
>>
>
> Right now, the problem seems to be that nobody is willing to take time
> doing plans. Doing plans is not as funny as writing articles.
> For example, I suggested a long time ago we should build up a list of
> african media contacts to send press releases to. I started doing that a
> long time ago for Algeria and Marocco (press releases sent there never
> raised any attention though). But a much more extensive list needs to be
> set up and used. But no list has ever been made as far as I know. Saying
> "it needs a plan" is good, that does not make it happen. Approving plans
> is good as well, but needs a plan in the first place.
>
> I am unsure how to approach this.
>
There is a plan what a language subcommittee can do. It has been
published on Meta. There are people who are willing to execute that
plan. The only thing that is needed is to have a mandate to do this for
the Wikimedia Foundation as well. We are doing many of the things
mentioned anyway because it benefits the WiktionaryZ project and we do
not mind that the benefit is more than just WiktionaryZ; that is what
makes it so sweet to do.
>>> 3. Favor production of content in local languages
>>>
>>> * Help Beta Wiki
>>> * Contact local NGOs for help in translation interface
>>> * Identification (now) of major languages (according to read/write
>>> coverage)
>>>
>> There is agreement between Brion and Nikerabbit that Beta Wiki will be
>> hosted on a more convenient place. This is an extremely important thing
>> and I am grateful to Brion to help out on this one.
>>
>> Translating the User Interface only for our projects is a missed
>> opportunity. MediaWiki is extremely powerful software. When the
>> localisation is also seen as an opportunity to have this great tool
>> available, it becomes something that has relevance to an organisation
>> for itself. This is an extremely powerful argument. It also underlines
>> why the localisation in a wikipedia is not such a great idea; it's scope
>> is only that project and there is no added benefit.
>>
>
> Here, I appear to have lost you on the way... can you re-explain ?
>
When an NGO helps with the localisation of MediaWiki, only to have a
Wikipedia benefit, is a nice effort but a missed opportunity. MediaWiki
can be used for other projects including projects of the NGO itself and
the partners they asked to do the localisation for them. This way
MediaWiki becomes a tool for these organisations as well and this in
turn makes the investment in the localisation more valuable. This means
that MediaWiki should be seen as a valuable commodity in it's own right,
a commodity we should more actively promote.
>>> Here are some thougts. Are they others ?
>>> Who feel like helping take care of some of those points ?
>>>
>>>
>> It is important to be enthusiastic about what we do and it is as
>> important to have a good understanding what the WMF does and what it's
>> projects are. It is however also really relevant to tell that the WMF is
>> part of a growing ecosphere with many other projects like Wikitravel,
>> Yellowiki, Wikia being part of it. This shows that the wikiway is not
>> only the Wikipedia way.
>>
>> I have been taking care of some of these points because it helps
>> WiktionaryZ. For WiktionaryZ it is relevant that we are part of this
>> whole wiki thing. The strength of what we do is achieved in the many
>> different things we do, try and achieve. We would be better served if we
>> cooperated more and bickered less.
>>
>
> indeed
>
> I went back to the meta page on the topic. They are hopelessly outdated.
>
> Well, my first move will be to contact back this BBC journalist as well
> as the journalist from IT & Telecom Digest. One step at a time.
>
>> Thanks,
>> GerardM
>>
>> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/afrophonewikis/ - Yahoo group on
>> supporting African language
>> http://www.kasahorow.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page - Wiki for a
>> project plan for supporting Ghanaian languages
>> http://wiktionaryz.org - Pre alpha project to do lexicology, terminology
>> and ontology has both language and country portals
>> http://nike.users.idler.fi/dev/index.php?title=ISO-639-3/gil
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Gerard Meijssen wrote:

>Anthere wrote:
>
>
>>Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Anthere wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>1.2. Identification of big media group (make a list).
>>>>Contact and proposition of articles. Language focus: english, french,
>>>>arab, portuguese.
>>>>Of course, include them in the list of press release.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I take it that you want to engage the media in the countries themselves,
>>>this is more effectively done by local people. They will be able to do
>>>so effectively when they know themselves empowered to do so. This means
>>>that local chapters may be really relevant here. They are because they
>>>can handle money and they provide a front to the people who do things on
>>>the ground. If you want to stimulate local languages, learn how it is
>>>done by others, what is done in Neapolitan is one good example but there
>>>are more like it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Can you explain more about what is done in Neapolitan language ?
>>
>>
>>
>The Neapolitan language is a language that is considered by many to be
>inferior. People are not educated in it, while the Neapolitans are a
>proud people many sadly do not take pride in their own language. In
>order to promote the Neapolitan language, everything is done to
>stimulate the recognition of the Neapolitan language. Stubs are created
>to create a tapestry of articles that are linked. Translation tools are
>used to generate content. There is a newsletter in Neapolitan to people
>who are interested. People living as far afield as the USA and Australia
>are contacted when they show their interest in the Neapolitan language.
>There have been articles in the press about the project. Neapolitan
>traditions are covered, local interest is sought.
>
>As the Italian chapter now has a coordinator for the regional languages,
>it will be interesting to see how the chapter will be able to facilitate
>projects like the Neapolitan wikipedia.. I know for instance that the
>Neapolitan project would love to have a Neapolitan dictionary to scan
>and OCR as well as support for scanning original Neapolitan literature
>(most of is it in the public domain).
>
>
>>>>1.3. Identification of specialized press (make a list)
>>>>Focus: Linux fanatics :-) Contact and proposition of articles
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I think the Linux fanatics are overrated, they have many of the concepts
>>>right, they have the fanatism wrong. We should reach out to everyone we
>>>do not want to be associated and identified with a fanatic fringe. I
>>>understand and appreciate the wink, but some of these people are fringe
>>>and are more of a burden than of a help.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Frankly... I have seen most languages start thanks to developers
>>participation. And remember quite well that for a rather long time, the
>>only articles we got were only in tech journals. This is something we
>>should rely on.
>>
>>
>>
>It may be true that many of our "languages" (you mean Wikipedia ?) were
>started by developers, but since then many other projects have started
>and many of these projects have not been started by developers. Many of
>these projects are doing well. When you consider the press coverage we
>are getting, you will find that we are now have traction in the main
>press. The effect of publications like the one in Nature, the
>Seigenthaler interview on CNN proved extremely valuable. This is where
>our current relevant exposure comes from. A slashdot article does no
>longer generate a slashdot effect.
>
>I am not suggesting that we should cold shoulder the computer press.
>They are relevant to a large part of the wiki community. What I am
>saying is that the Linux fanatics are not and have never been that
>important. The people who became involved in our projects have been too
>level headed to call them fanatics.
>
>
>
>>>>1.4. Identification of major NGO working on education and woman groups.
>>>>Contact. Provide them with a bit of "advertisment".
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>When you want to get NGO's to work on our projects, you do not only want
>>>to inform them, you also want to engage them. It means that a
>>>substantial amount of time will be involved. The time frame in which
>>>they operate is quite different, they work with budget cycles,
>>>deadlines. NGO's are often really enthusiastic but for them wikis and
>>>their methodology are new; they have to be initiated in the wiki way. It
>>>takes time and perseverance.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Correct
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>1.5. Contact of all major universities.
>>>>propose them teleconference (if they are equipped) or irl presentation
>>>>(if that fit well with a formal conference or a trip)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>I have not done that systematically yet, but it is extremely likely that
>>>I will get many more contacts in universities soon.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>ok
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>2. Favor production of content in languages already developped
>>>>Cases such as RAFT or Wiki voices. If necessary, find money and someone
>>>>to help coordinating this to ensure success.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>It is helpful if there is a place where these things are coordinated. A
>>>language subcommittee of the SPC could do many of these things.. It is
>>>just for this subcommittee to be allowed to start. Finding money is not
>>>that hard. It just needs a plan that needs implementation. Approving
>>>plans for funding and incorporation in the WMF would be a step towards
>>>the notion of "donations, putting your money where your mouth is"
>>>(details on Meta).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Right now, the problem seems to be that nobody is willing to take time
>>doing plans. Doing plans is not as funny as writing articles.
>>For example, I suggested a long time ago we should build up a list of
>>african media contacts to send press releases to. I started doing that a
>>long time ago for Algeria and Marocco (press releases sent there never
>>raised any attention though). But a much more extensive list needs to be
>>set up and used. But no list has ever been made as far as I know. Saying
>>"it needs a plan" is good, that does not make it happen. Approving plans
>>is good as well, but needs a plan in the first place.
>>
>>I am unsure how to approach this.
>>
>>
>>
>There is a plan what a language subcommittee can do. It has been
>published on Meta. There are people who are willing to execute that
>plan. The only thing that is needed is to have a mandate to do this for
>the Wikimedia Foundation as well. We are doing many of the things
>mentioned anyway because it benefits the WiktionaryZ project and we do
>not mind that the benefit is more than just WiktionaryZ; that is what
>makes it so sweet to do.
>
>
>>>>3. Favor production of content in local languages
>>>>
>>>>* Help Beta Wiki
>>>>* Contact local NGOs for help in translation interface
>>>>* Identification (now) of major languages (according to read/write
>>>>coverage)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>There is agreement between Brion and Nikerabbit that Beta Wiki will be
>>>hosted on a more convenient place. This is an extremely important thing
>>>and I am grateful to Brion to help out on this one.
>>>
>>>Translating the User Interface only for our projects is a missed
>>>opportunity. MediaWiki is extremely powerful software. When the
>>>localisation is also seen as an opportunity to have this great tool
>>>available, it becomes something that has relevance to an organisation
>>>for itself. This is an extremely powerful argument. It also underlines
>>>why the localisation in a wikipedia is not such a great idea; it's scope
>>>is only that project and there is no added benefit.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>Here, I appear to have lost you on the way... can you re-explain ?
>>
>>
>>
>When an NGO helps with the localisation of MediaWiki, only to have a
>Wikipedia benefit, is a nice effort but a missed opportunity. MediaWiki
>can be used for other projects including projects of the NGO itself and
>the partners they asked to do the localisation for them. This way
>MediaWiki becomes a tool for these organisations as well and this in
>turn makes the investment in the localisation more valuable. This means
>that MediaWiki should be seen as a valuable commodity in it's own right,
>a commodity we should more actively promote.
>
>
>>>>Here are some thougts. Are they others ?
>>>>Who feel like helping take care of some of those points ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>It is important to be enthusiastic about what we do and it is as
>>>important to have a good understanding what the WMF does and what it's
>>>projects are. It is however also really relevant to tell that the WMF is
>>>part of a growing ecosphere with many other projects like Wikitravel,
>>>Yellowiki, Wikia being part of it. This shows that the wikiway is not
>>>only the Wikipedia way.
>>>
>>>I have been taking care of some of these points because it helps
>>>WiktionaryZ. For WiktionaryZ it is relevant that we are part of this
>>>whole wiki thing. The strength of what we do is achieved in the many
>>>different things we do, try and achieve. We would be better served if we
>>>cooperated more and bickered less.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>indeed
>>
>>I went back to the meta page on the topic. They are hopelessly outdated.
>>
>>Well, my first move will be to contact back this BBC journalist as well
>>as the journalist from IT & Telecom Digest. One step at a time.
>>
>>
>>
>>>Thanks,
>>> GerardM
>>>
>>>http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/afrophonewikis/ - Yahoo group on
>>>supporting African language
>>>http://www.kasahorow.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page - Wiki for a
>>>project plan for supporting Ghanaian languages
>>>http://wiktionaryz.org - Pre alpha project to do lexicology, terminology
>>>and ontology has both language and country portals
>>>http://nike.users.idler.fi/dev/index.php?title=ISO-639-3/gil
>>>
>>>
>_______________________________________________
>foundation-l mailing list
>foundation-l@wikimedia.org
>http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
>
When the lexicons are completed, I'll start translation runs in Neopolitian.

Jeff
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

>>
> When the lexicons are completed, I'll start translation runs in Neopolitian.
>
Jeff, that will take some time - I am trying to get Carmine involved -
if things depend only on me ... well: I cannot give any deadline.

I hope that other small wikipedias take up the possibility and start to
create their contents as well.

Thank you!!!

Best wishes,

Sabine
Chiacchiera con i tuoi amici in tempo reale!
http://it.yahoo.com/mail_it/foot/*http://it.messenger.yahoo.com
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Sabine Cretella wrote:

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>When the lexicons are completed, I'll start translation runs in Neopolitian.
>>
>>
>>
>Jeff, that will take some time - I am trying to get Carmine involved -
>if things depend only on me ... well: I cannot give any deadline.
>
>I hope that other small wikipedias take up the possibility and start to
>create their contents as well.
>
>Thank you!!!
>
>Best wishes,
>
>Sabine
>
>

Sabine,

That's ok. I have plenty to work on for now. Cherokee, Dine, Chickasaw,
Bantu and Kaswahili, Uto-Aztecan.
Take your time. When you are ready, I am here for you.

Jeff
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Regarding to Focusing Linux fanatics idea, I have a living example on that.

Especially if you are dealing with a culture, which open source, free
knowledge type of philosophies are not widely spreaded, your best friends
are linux guys. Sınce they share smae type of idea, they understand our goal
fast and they like and support it easily. Although they may not help
directly, they might have mailinglist, different contacting ways, and can
reach people who respect the organization and respond resposibily. This
method worked very well on early days of Turkish WP.

Cheers,

Özgür
(Dbl2010)


On 9/17/06, Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Anthere wrote:
> > Since I am on it
> > (
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2006-September/010021.html
> ),
> > I'd like us to think along what we could more or less easily do to push
> > our visibility and participation in African countries (may be the the
> > same in other parts of the world as well).
> >
> > I have identified the following solutions. Are they others ?
> >
> > 1. Increase awareness in the project
> >
> OLPC could have been extremely relevant here, sadly they only use the
> Wikipedia content and provide it in a different format. There is a Yahoo
> group called "Afrophonewikis" where many of the issues to do with
> African languages are discussed. At Kasahorow work is done on a project
> proposal to support MediaWiki in the Ghanaian languages. WiktionaryZ is
> slowly but surely building portal pages for both countries and
> languages; this is to make people feel that every language is considered
> relevant.
>
> For the Wikimedia Foundation it is absolutely essential that every
> officer and employee supports the idea of our projects being
> multilingual. This being a core value of what we do means that there is
> no room to express the opinion that the English language is to be
> preferred over "native" languages.
> > 1.1 Identification of conferences where our participation might be
> > relevant (focused on ICT, Education, Sustainable development, Culture)
> > Contact with organisers and proposal to participate and make
> presentations
> >
> This would mean coordination of people who have something to contribute
> here and making sure that there is a budget for people to go there. I
> can effectively explain how many of the parts come together, I have
> effectively involved NGO's and we are working on projects to create
> content in (for Wikipedia) less developed languages.
> > 1.2. Identification of big media group (make a list).
> > Contact and proposition of articles. Language focus: english, french,
> > arab, portuguese.
> > Of course, include them in the list of press release.
> >
> I take it that you want to engage the media in the countries themselves,
> this is more effectively done by local people. They will be able to do
> so effectively when they know themselves empowered to do so. This means
> that local chapters may be really relevant here. They are because they
> can handle money and they provide a front to the people who do things on
> the ground. If you want to stimulate local languages, learn how it is
> done by others, what is done in Neapolitan is one good example but there
> are more like it.
> > 1.3. Identification of specialized press (make a list)
> > Focus: Linux fanatics :-) Contact and proposition of articles
> >
> I think the Linux fanatics are overrated, they have many of the concepts
> right, they have the fanatism wrong. We should reach out to everyone we
> do not want to be associated and identified with a fanatic fringe. I
> understand and appreciate the wink, but some of these people are fringe
> and are more of a burden than of a help.
> > 1.4. Identification of major NGO working on education and woman groups.
> > Contact. Provide them with a bit of "advertisment".
> >
> When you want to get NGO's to work on our projects, you do not only want
> to inform them, you also want to engage them. It means that a
> substantial amount of time will be involved. The time frame in which
> they operate is quite different, they work with budget cycles,
> deadlines. NGO's are often really enthusiastic but for them wikis and
> their methodology are new; they have to be initiated in the wiki way. It
> takes time and perseverance.
> > 1.5. Contact of all major universities.
> > propose them teleconference (if they are equipped) or irl presentation
> > (if that fit well with a formal conference or a trip)
> >
> I have not done that systematically yet, but it is extremely likely that
> I will get many more contacts in universities soon.
> >
> > 2. Favor production of content in languages already developped
> > Cases such as RAFT or Wiki voices. If necessary, find money and someone
> > to help coordinating this to ensure success.
> >
> It is helpful if there is a place where these things are coordinated. A
> language subcommittee of the SPC could do many of these things.. It is
> just for this subcommittee to be allowed to start. Finding money is not
> that hard. It just needs a plan that needs implementation. Approving
> plans for funding and incorporation in the WMF would be a step towards
> the notion of "donations, putting your money where your mouth is"
> (details on Meta).
> > 3. Favor production of content in local languages
> >
> > * Help Beta Wiki
> > * Contact local NGOs for help in translation interface
> > * Identification (now) of major languages (according to read/write
> > coverage)
> >
> >
> There is agreement between Brion and Nikerabbit that Beta Wiki will be
> hosted on a more convenient place. This is an extremely important thing
> and I am grateful to Brion to help out on this one.
>
> Translating the User Interface only for our projects is a missed
> opportunity. MediaWiki is extremely powerful software. When the
> localisation is also seen as an opportunity to have this great tool
> available, it becomes something that has relevance to an organisation
> for itself. This is an extremely powerful argument. It also underlines
> why the localisation in a wikipedia is not such a great idea; it's scope
> is only that project and there is no added benefit.
> > Here are some thougts. Are they others ?
> > Who feel like helping take care of some of those points ?
> >
> It is important to be enthusiastic about what we do and it is as
> important to have a good understanding what the WMF does and what it's
> projects are. It is however also really relevant to tell that the WMF is
> part of a growing ecosphere with many other projects like Wikitravel,
> Yellowiki, Wikia being part of it. This shows that the wikiway is not
> only the Wikipedia way.
>
> I have been taking care of some of these points because it helps
> WiktionaryZ. For WiktionaryZ it is relevant that we are part of this
> whole wiki thing. The strength of what we do is achieved in the many
> different things we do, try and achieve. We would be better served if we
> cooperated more and bickered less.
>
> Thanks,
> GerardM
>
> http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/afrophonewikis/ - Yahoo group on
> supporting African language
> http://www.kasahorow.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page - Wiki for a
> project plan for supporting Ghanaian languages
> http://wiktionaryz.org - Pre alpha project to do lexicology, terminology
> and ontology has both language and country portals
> http://nike.users.idler.fi/dev/index.php?title=ISO-639-3/gil
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

My 2 cents... Neapolitan is a particular language, is more than a
regional language.

Neapolitan has got a strong culture: music, poetry, literature.

In some parts of the world Neapolitan music is more famous than
Italian (i.e. "O' sole mio") and some words used in whole world
derive directly from Neapolitan (i.e. Pizza).

The difference is that Neapolitan has got a string culture as
pillar.

Ilario

----Messaggio originale----
Da: gerard.meijssen@gmail.com
Data: 19.09.06 0.15
A: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List"<foundation-l@wikimedia.org>
Copia: <public-afrophonewikis-hHKSG33TihhbjbujkaE4pw@ciao.gmane.
Oggetto: Re: [Foundation-l] Development in Africa


> Can you explain more about what is done in Neapolitan language ?
>
The Neapolitan language is a language that is considered by many to
be
inferior. People are not educated in it, while the Neapolitans are
a
proud people many sadly do not take pride in their own language.
In
order to promote the Neapolitan language, everything is done to
stimulate the recognition of the Neapolitan language. Stubs are
created
to create a tapestry of articles that are linked. Translation tools
are
used to generate content. There is a newsletter in Neapolitan to
people
who are interested. People living as far afield as the USA and
Australia
are contacted when they show their interest in the Neapolitan
language.
There have been articles in the press about the project.
Neapolitan
traditions are covered, local interest is sought.

As the Italian chapter now has a coordinator for the regional
languages,
it will be interesting to see how the chapter will be able to
facilitate
projects like the Neapolitan wikipedia.. I know for instance that
the
Neapolitan project would love to have a Neapolitan dictionary to
scan
and OCR as well as support for scanning original Neapolitan
literature
(most of is it in the public domain).
>>> 1.3. Identification of specialized press (make a list)

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l