Mailing List Archive

On 9/6/06, David Gerard <dgerard@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 06/09/06, Alison Wheeler <wikimedia@alisonwheeler.com> wrote:
>
> > I'm wondering whether some 'how to edit / improve your writing /
> > fact-check and cite' articles could be validly added to one of our other
> > projects as an on-line course rather than needing people to attend a
> > single physical location (goo that might be it would be an expense that
> > the target audience might have the wherewithall to spend)
>
>
> A how-to rather than a guideline or policy page? Could be good. Wikibooks?

I think we have enough. People generly would rather contibute and
learn from experence rather than read them. Anyway experences suggests
that howto's that people want are "how to upload copyvio images
without getting caught by orphan bot" and "how advertise your
company".

--
geni
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On 9/6/06, Erik Moeller <eloquence@gmail.com> wrote:
> Topics would be handled in a more participatory, workshop style manner
> than typical conference sessions. They could include:
> - How to write really good articles?
> - How to do research in libraries?
> - What is this copyright stuff all about?
> - My POV, your POV, NPOV?
> - Where's Willy? How to find and fight vandals
> - Jimbo's campfire stories
> - Write your own news with Wikinews
> - Celebrity hunt: Wikimedia Commons needs you
> - Everything you know about Pokemon, and where to put it
>
> OK, perhaps I'm not really good at defining the topic scope. But you
> get the idea. ;-)

Yes, I certainly get the idea...

The trouble is that this has the potential to be extremely
patronising. There are considerable numbers of young Wikipedians
(defined how, exactly? Under 18? Under 21? Under 25?) who have as
good a grasp of the principles of Wikimedia as any adult members, even
if, for various practical reasons, they are unable to play a
significant role in the government of the Foundation as their adult
counterparts. I can't see how you can avoid this kind of event
becoming either a beginner's guide to Wikimedia (not something anyone
committed enough to fork out several hundred quid needs) or a mini
Wikimania. While an entirely admirable idea -- it's always good to
reach out to members of the community in new ways -- I can't imagine
how it could be practically made into a useful and productive event.

--
Sam
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Andrew Lih wrote:

>On 9/6/06, Birgitte SB <birgitte_sb@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Also lets not forget that young people have much
>>longer holidays than most people. I would think
>>younger people are more likely to be able to attend
>>and event a week before Wikimania.
>>
>>Although I do wonder whether we really want to take on
>>being responsibile for minors. It would require a lot
>>more effort than just producing Wikimania does. I
>>think if we can partner with a group that has
>>experience and a good reputation with the "youth camp"
>>issues, then it would be great for us to provide the
>>Wikimedia aspect. If we are doing this on our own
>>however I think it would be too risky of a
>>proposition.
>>
>>
>I agree, that's why a session before Wikimania with maybe 12-16 folks
>would be an ideal start. If we're talking 50-100, then I agree -
>having to manage that many teenagers under one roof would be daunting.
>We'd need the help of an academic institution that has experience
>running a summer program or something similar.
>
The whole idea is intriguing, but there are major logistical problems.
There is no doubt that we (or the youth themselves) could come up with
an interesting programme. The small group that Andrew suggests may be
as much as we can hope for in a first global level conference of this
sort in the first year. After that such conferences could grow, or more
regional events may prove more workable.

The youth who can travel half-way around the world to a conference
without their parents are exceptional. Such travel is very costly, and
most parents need to be reassured that their children will be perfectly
safe before they give the children permission to travel.

Ec



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My primary goal with this proposal is to stimulate knowledge building
and training activities around Wikimedia. I will be upfront about my
own beliefs: I do think that such training must be done in an
age-appropriate way. I confess to being "ageist" in that I believe, on
average, people are in different stages of personal development at
different ages, and different generations have different ways of
learning due to cultural influences alone.

That said, I also recognize that young people active in Wikimedia are
often exceptional individuals. That's why I would like to draw on
their creativity and ingenuity to get young people who are not yet
Wikimedians interested in the project. Helping young people to educate
young people is, in my opinion, not patronizing at all; it is a
celebration of generational difference.

That said, a warning to the members of the younger generation:
political correctness is one of the more questionable accomplishments
of your parents. I started using and running bulletin board systems
when I was 13 years old and attended and organized many meetings where
I was the youngest member of the group. I've got my own stories to
tell about age discrimination, but let's not get bogged down in age
politics.

Instead, what I'd like to do is actively invite the young people in
Wikimedia to work on a proposal and make it theirs. I think some
opinion polling will be useful to gauge the direction such a project
should take. I'll post more in the coming weeks, though I'd be equally
happy if someone else -- young or old -- would pick up the idea and
run with it.

As for the logistics of attending a Youth Event, I think
decentralization will be key in the long run. But like Wikimania, it
might be nice to have a single designated big event per year for those
who can manage to attend. Each large event will, of course, also be
very attractive for youths in the region where it takes place.
--
Peace & Love,
Erik
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Erik Moeller wrote:

>That said, a warning to the members of the younger generation:
>political correctness is one of the more questionable accomplishments
>of your parents. I started using and running bulletin board systems
>when I was 13 years old and attended and organized many meetings where
>I was the youngest member of the group. I've got my own stories to
>tell about age discrimination, but let's not get bogged down in age
>politics.
>
How far were you allowed to travel for this when you were 13?

Ec

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On 9/7/06, Ray Saintonge <saintonge@telus.net> wrote:
> How far were you allowed to travel for this when you were 13?

It was more a matter of "could" than "were allowed to". I was too
much of a sissy to go on big journeys of my own (I've remedied that in
the last few years), though I'm sure my parents would have encouraged
me to and helped me along. Then again, I have wonderful parents.

I do feel that we need to support regional initiatives very much.
Again, that does not preclude major, more centralized events.
--
Peace & Love,
Erik
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