Mailing List Archive

Don't worry about it -- articles as transwikied from Wikipedia to Wiktionary
all the time.

To successfuly transwiki an article, you copy and paste the article to
Wiktionary, then copy the edit history from Wikipedia to the talk page of
the new page you made at Wiktionary. Then you list the transwiki at the
Transwiki Log on Wikipedia, then the fate of the Wikipedia version will be
decided.

Excuse me if I made it sound confusing -- feel free to ask for
clarification.

On 8/28/06, valdelli@bluemail.ch <valdelli@bluemail.ch> wrote:
>
> I have a doubt. GFDL used by Wikipedia said that the content is free
> but "providing that its authors are attributed".
>
> In this case the history is strictly connected to the content. I
> could use content but I should have the related history.
>
> If I transfer an article from a project to another (i.e. from
> Wikipedia to Wikitionary) how I could respect this rule? The history
> is in the old article, I don't know a way to transfer also the
> history. The presence of a link in the new article linked to the old
> could be a good choice?
>
> If I transfer the content and I delete the article in the old
> position, what I could do in this case?
>
> Regards
>
> Ilario
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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2006/8/28, James Hare <messedrocker@gmail.com>:
> Don't worry about it -- articles as transwikied from Wikipedia to Wiktionary
> all the time.
>
> To successfuly transwiki an article, you copy and paste the article to
> Wiktionary, then copy the edit history from Wikipedia to the talk page of
> the new page you made at Wiktionary. Then you list the transwiki at the
> Transwiki Log on Wikipedia, then the fate of the Wikipedia version will be
> decided.
>
> Excuse me if I made it sound confusing -- feel free to ask for
> clarification.
>
> On 8/28/06, valdelli@bluemail.ch <valdelli@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> >
> > I have a doubt. GFDL used by Wikipedia said that the content is free
> > but "providing that its authors are attributed".
> >
> > In this case the history is strictly connected to the content. I
> > could use content but I should have the related history.
> >
> > If I transfer an article from a project to another (i.e. from
> > Wikipedia to Wikitionary) how I could respect this rule? The history
> > is in the old article, I don't know a way to transfer also the
> > history. The presence of a link in the new article linked to the old
> > could be a good choice?
> >
> > If I transfer the content and I delete the article in the old
> > position, what I could do in this case?
> >
> > Regards
> >
> > Ilario

Or you can just add info at the bottom of the article about its source
and link to the source artilce's history.

--
Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
http://www.ceti.pl/kganicz/poli/kontakt.html
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Yes, but that won't work out if the Wikipedia version gets deleted, as
dicdefs tend to do.

On 8/28/06, Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 2006/8/28, James Hare <messedrocker@gmail.com>:
> > Don't worry about it -- articles as transwikied from Wikipedia to
> Wiktionary
> > all the time.
> >
> > To successfuly transwiki an article, you copy and paste the article to
> > Wiktionary, then copy the edit history from Wikipedia to the talk page
> of
> > the new page you made at Wiktionary. Then you list the transwiki at the
> > Transwiki Log on Wikipedia, then the fate of the Wikipedia version will
> be
> > decided.
> >
> > Excuse me if I made it sound confusing -- feel free to ask for
> > clarification.
> >
> > On 8/28/06, valdelli@bluemail.ch <valdelli@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a doubt. GFDL used by Wikipedia said that the content is free
> > > but "providing that its authors are attributed".
> > >
> > > In this case the history is strictly connected to the content. I
> > > could use content but I should have the related history.
> > >
> > > If I transfer an article from a project to another (i.e. from
> > > Wikipedia to Wikitionary) how I could respect this rule? The history
> > > is in the old article, I don't know a way to transfer also the
> > > history. The presence of a link in the new article linked to the old
> > > could be a good choice?
> > >
> > > If I transfer the content and I delete the article in the old
> > > position, what I could do in this case?
> > >
> > > Regards
> > >
> > > Ilario
>
> Or you can just add info at the bottom of the article about its source
> and link to the source artilce's history.
>
> --
> Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> http://www.ceti.pl/kganicz/poli/kontakt.html
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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Ask the community to request the import-function. That function allows
you to import an article from another wiki with keeping the history
intact.

Lodewijk

2006/8/28, James Hare <messedrocker@gmail.com>:
> Yes, but that won't work out if the Wikipedia version gets deleted, as
> dicdefs tend to do.
>
> On 8/28/06, Tomasz Ganicz <polimerek@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > 2006/8/28, James Hare <messedrocker@gmail.com>:
> > > Don't worry about it -- articles as transwikied from Wikipedia to
> > Wiktionary
> > > all the time.
> > >
> > > To successfuly transwiki an article, you copy and paste the article to
> > > Wiktionary, then copy the edit history from Wikipedia to the talk page
> > of
> > > the new page you made at Wiktionary. Then you list the transwiki at the
> > > Transwiki Log on Wikipedia, then the fate of the Wikipedia version will
> > be
> > > decided.
> > >
> > > Excuse me if I made it sound confusing -- feel free to ask for
> > > clarification.
> > >
> > > On 8/28/06, valdelli@bluemail.ch <valdelli@bluemail.ch> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have a doubt. GFDL used by Wikipedia said that the content is free
> > > > but "providing that its authors are attributed".
> > > >
> > > > In this case the history is strictly connected to the content. I
> > > > could use content but I should have the related history.
> > > >
> > > > If I transfer an article from a project to another (i.e. from
> > > > Wikipedia to Wikitionary) how I could respect this rule? The history
> > > > is in the old article, I don't know a way to transfer also the
> > > > history. The presence of a link in the new article linked to the old
> > > > could be a good choice?
> > > >
> > > > If I transfer the content and I delete the article in the old
> > > > position, what I could do in this case?
> > > >
> > > > Regards
> > > >
> > > > Ilario
> >
> > Or you can just add info at the bottom of the article about its source
> > and link to the source artilce's history.
> >
> > --
> > Tomek "Polimerek" Ganicz
> > http://www.ceti.pl/kganicz/poli/kontakt.html
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> > http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
> >
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@wikimedia.org
> http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
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effe iets anders wrote:

>Ask the community to request the import-function. That function allows
>you to import an article from another wiki with keeping the history
>intact.
>
>Lodewijk
>
>
I've been using the page import feature with Wikiversity, and it makes
the transwiki process work out so successfully that I really wonder why
this isn't allowed with other projects? Is this mainly a CPU bandwidth
issue, or is this still just an experimental feature?

There are a few bugs with the page import, but those few bugs can be
usually compensated for by compitent administrators. And this also
preserves the page edit history including previous versions of the page,
which are quite often left out of a traditional manual transwiki.

I will have to agree with the parent poster that this is one aspect of
the GFDL that is often strongly ignored, and that citation of
authors/contributors needs to significantly improve over what is
currently being done on most Wikimedia projects.

I'll refrain from rehashing further points on this issue I've made in
the past, but it is a problem.

--
Robert Scott Horning



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On 8/28/06, Robert Scott Horning <robert_horning@netzero.net> wrote:
[snip]
> I will have to agree with the parent poster that this is one aspect of
> the GFDL that is often strongly ignored, and that citation of
> authors/contributors needs to significantly improve over what is
> currently being done on most Wikimedia projects.
>
> I'll refrain from rehashing further points on this issue I've made in
> the past, but it is a problem.

It's also worth noting that most articles have been edited by a very
small number of users... and it is also true that many edits are not
significant enough to gain a copyright interest.... and it's also true
that a lot of users have little to no interest in attribution (claim
supported by the number of anon edits made).

So the end result is that we have these history pages which are often
short, but sometimes very long, filled with people who are not
authors, and whom often have no interested in attribution.

With the new dynamic namespace support expected to be completed fairly
soon, it should be possible to have multiple associated namespaces ...
for example multiple article talk namespaces.

Perhaps it's time we consider adding an article credits namespace...
If you wrote a significant portion of an article, and desire
attribution, you must add yourself to the credits page. Standard
wiki-based review would keep people honest.

This would greatly ease license conformance, and it would give us a
place to put historical attribution data (such as histories from
merged pages, and attribution for text sourced from other free
sources) which is currently handled in a number of failure prone ways.
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effe iets anders wrote:

>Ask the community to request the import-function. That function allows
>you to import an article from another wiki with keeping the history
>intact.
>
The problem with that and transwikied articles in general is that it is
only a raw history. One cannot go to the edits on the history list to
see what was changed. This may be fine for fulfilling the technical
requirements of GFDL, but many of the people in the history list may
have contributed material that would be rejected on Wiktionary because
it is encyclopedic.

I view the Transwiki section of Wiktionary as a temporary hold, and
encourage rewriting an article from scratch, after which the Transwiki
article can simply be deleted.

Ec

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Robert Scott Horning wrote:
> I've been using the page import feature with Wikiversity, and it makes
> the transwiki process work out so successfully that I really wonder why
> this isn't allowed with other projects? Is this mainly a CPU bandwidth
> issue, or is this still just an experimental feature?
>
> There are a few bugs with the page import, but those few bugs can be
> usually compensated for by compitent administrators.

Please report these bugs... :)

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)

Brion Vibber wrote:

>Robert Scott Horning wrote:
>
>
>>I've been using the page import feature with Wikiversity, and it makes
>>the transwiki process work out so successfully that I really wonder why
>>this isn't allowed with other projects? Is this mainly a CPU bandwidth
>>issue, or is this still just an experimental feature?
>>
>>There are a few bugs with the page import, but those few bugs can be
>>usually compensated for by compitent administrators.
>>
>>
>
>Please report these bugs... :)
>
>-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)
>
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
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>
>
importDump is busted in 1.7.1 (fails on NULL revision history). I
already reported it over on mediawiki. Have not seen any fix for it yet.

Jeff
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Jeff V. Merkey wrote:
> Brion Vibber wrote:
>> Robert Scott Horning wrote:
>>> There are a few bugs with the page import, but those few bugs can be
>>> usually compensated for by compitent administrators.
>>>
>>>
>> Please report these bugs... :)
>>
> importDump is busted in 1.7.1 (fails on NULL revision history). I
> already reported it over on mediawiki. Have not seen any fix for it yet.

I already gave you directions on this by private email, and you thanked me for
the help. So, I assume you are in fact aware of this issue and how to correct it.

If there is some other issue which is different from the one you already asked
me about and which I already helped you with, please go to
http://bugzilla.wikimedia.org/ and submit a bug report including details of
which files you're using, how you're using them, your configuration, the exact
error message and exact directions on how to reproduce it.

Please don't continue this discussion in foundation-l, where it is offtopic and
will unnecessarily clutter things and cause raised tempers. I will not make any
further replies in this thread.

-- brion vibber (brion @ pobox.com)