Mailing List Archive

I understand Wikipedia is considering publishing Wikipedia 1.0 cheaply
enough for those with little money. But would Wikimedia ever donate
money, and just money, to other charities to buy books published by
private organisations and other charities? Is this covered by the
charter of the Foundation?

--
Oldak Quill (oldakquill@gmail.com)
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Anthere wrote:
> Hello,
>
> Let me forward this email to Foundation-l for other
> people feedback, and let's keep in touch with this in
> any case :-)
>
> Florence Devouard
>
>
> --- Marlies Klooster <marliesklooster@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>
>>This is the e-mail I meant.
>>
>>Thank you!
>>
>>Marlies
>>
>>Begin forwarded message:
>>
>>
>>>From: Jimmy Wales <jwales@wikia.com>
>>>Date: 17 July 2006 2:21:43 PM
>>>To: Marlies Klooster <marliesklooster@gmail.com>
>>>Subject: Re: Wikipedia and books for African
>>
>>children
>>
>>>Thank you! :) You might consider sending this
>>
>>email as well to
>>
>>>foundation-l@wikimedia.org so that more people in
>>
>>our community will
>>
>>>see
>>>it and learn about this wonderful organization.
>>>
>>>
>>>Marlies Klooster wrote:
>>>
>>>>Dear Mr Walsh,
>>>>
>>>>I am impressed by the work and initiatives of
>>
>>Wikimedia, especially
>>
>>>>Wikipedia. You developed something that is truly
>>
>>unique for our times
>>
>>>>and I want you to compliment for that. Recently I
>>
>>read an interview
>>
>>>>with
>>>>you in the Dutch newspaper NRC (www.nrc.nl) in
>>
>>which you made the
>>
>>>>intriguing remark that if Wikipedia were ever to
>>
>>make money from
>>
>>>>advertisements, you would want this money to go
>>
>>to books for children
>>
>>>>in
>>>>Africa.
>>>>
>>>>As a volunteer and fundraiser for Biblionef I
>>
>>feel I should tell you
>>
>>>>about this great book organization I know:
>>
>>Biblionef. This NGO donates
>>
>>>>new storybooks--free of charge--to needy
>>
>>children’s organisations
>>
>>>>throughout South Africa. (There are more
>>
>>Biblionefs in other
>>
>>>>countries,
>>>>see http://www.biblionef.org/). Since 1999
>>
>>Biblionef South Africa only
>>
>>>>has donated over 250.000 books. Their target
>>
>>group comprises children
>>
>>>>living in disadvantaged communities who have no
>>
>>access to books.
>>
>>>>Biblionef is unique in South Africa in the sense
>>
>>that the books they
>>
>>>>donate are in each child’s own language, which
>>
>>means they cover all of
>>
>>>>South Africa’s eleven languages.
>>>>
>>>>In South Africa over 60% of schools have no
>>
>>library and at least half
>>
>>>>of
>>>>them is located more than 40 miles away from a
>>
>>public library. The
>>
>>>>main
>>>>aim of Biblionef’s work is to establish a culture
>>
>>of reading. This is
>>
>>>>only possible when the books have an impact on
>>
>>children. That is why
>>
>>>>Biblionef carefully collects the books that will
>>
>>be donated. In doing
>>
>>>>so
>>>>Biblionef closely cooperates with local
>>
>>publishers in various ways.
>>
>>>>Publishers donate newly published storybooks in
>>
>>the African languages
>>
>>>>to
>>>>Biblionef. For other projects Biblionef initiates
>>
>>reprints or
>>
>>>>publications. Whenever possible Biblionef links
>>
>>its donation to
>>
>>>>existing
>>>>reading initiatives or plans.
>>>>
>>>>I personally worked with Biblionef for over a
>>
>>year, during which we
>>
>>>>created the website (www.biblionefsa.org.za) and
>>
>>during which I had
>>
>>>>the
>>>>chance to visit a great number of schools and
>>
>>libraries who had (or
>>
>>>>asked for) Biblionef books. Some were really
>>
>>small, some had hardly
>>
>>>>any
>>>>books but they were always FULL with children.
>>
>>You have to visit an
>>
>>>>African library to understand its importance in a
>>
>>world deprived of
>>
>>>>information and quiet workspace. A number of
>>
>>those libraries is in the
>>
>>>>process of getting computers and internet
>>
>>connection, too. But doesn't
>>
>>>>all learning and reading start with colourful
>>
>>stories conveyed in
>>
>>>>quality books? If you ever have the opportunity
>>
>>to donate toward books
>>
>>>>for children in Africa, I strongly hope you will
>>
>>think of Biblionef.
>>
>>>>Thank you so much for your time and
>>
>>consideration.
>>
>>>>Kind regards,
>>>>
>>>>Marlies Klooster
>>>>for: Biblionef South Africa
>>>>http://www.biblionefsa.org.za
>>>>
>>>>Biblionef is a member of the American Fund for
>>
>>Charities, a 501(c)(3)
>>
>>>>public charity that allows American individuals
>>
>>and companies to make
>>
>>>>tax-deductible donations to Biblionef SA through
>>
>>their fund.
>>
>>>>"Motho ke motho ka batho babang" (A person is a
>>
>>person because of
>>
>>>>others)

Dear Marlies,

We look forward collaborating with initiatives such as yours.
I presume you are familiar with the concept of our project, collecting
and organising information, which may be used or reused by anyone. The
ultimate idea being to help increase access to information to anyone in
the world, regardless of his country, race, gender, age, financial
situation etc...

The fact is that we are good at collecting information. We are good at
organising it. We are frankly not very good at publishing it on a medium
other than internet. And we are not good at all at distributing it
(except that through internet channel).
In short, creating content is one job. Publishing/distributing is a
different job. And one which requires for us to set up collaborations,
in particular when distribution is done in countries where rather few of
us live (such as South Africa) or in specific situations (such as
distribution in school).

To make it clear immediately, we do not give money to organisations. All
what we collect ourselves is needed to make our own organisation run.

Quick overview of the South African initiatives.
Basically, three projects are of a size which might interest you.
Wikipedia (encyclopedia), Wikibooks (textbooks and manuals) and
Wiktionary (dictionary).

Only two of your languages are decently covered in wikipedia as far as I
know : english and afrikaans. If other languages exist, they are
probably essentially inactive due to lack of participants. I do not
think we could trigger translations initiatives in other languages due
to the lack of human force :-) (your help would be welcome :-)).

As for Wiktionary and Wikibooks, you may consider they only exist in
english for now.

English wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org (roughly one million articles)
Afrikaans wikipedia : http://af.wikipedia.org (roughly 5000 articles)

If you are looking for a kid version of an encyclopedia, there was
recently an initiative by SOS Children (contact Andrew Cates).
See here for more :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia-CD/Download

That's actually a selection of articles, not articles written for
children. It is in HTML version, may be downloaded for print. But it
will not constitute a book per se. Still, it may interest you.


More interesting probably are what we call wikijuniors. These are books
developped on Wikibooks. As all of our content, these are free to use.
These books are developped specifically for children. They are partially
or totally translated in other languages (probably not those which
interest you at this point).
I invite you to have a look at this initiative.
http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikijunior

There are rather few books for now, but the concept is now set up and
there is no limit to what we could do. I'll add that knowing that a book
is used, in particular to children in need, is a great incentive for an
author. Most of the content originates from Wikipedia, but is re-worked
to fit kids needs.

You will notice that some of those books are now "finished". Some are
currently in the works.
Amongst those finished, there is one which may be purchased as a print
version by LULU (please see http://www.lulu.com/content/346504 for
reference).

To realise these Wikijunior, we got financial support from an american
Foundation. This support was just renewed, so that we could push forward
this initiative. I consequently expect that we'll get more books soon in
the future. It would actually be interesting to have a feedback from an
organisation from yours as to which books would be most necessary.

So, at one end of the rope, we have content. At the other end of the
rope, we have Biblionef. What we need in between is a publisher and
money to publish.

I actually went to South Africa in september 2005, to participate to
discussions over FLOSS (free and open software/content) in South Africa,
and in my case, over the creation of a Wikiversity project
(http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikiversity)

During these discussions
(http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Conference_reports/FLOSS%2C_South_Africa_2005/Workshop_2),
I remember a presentation about the HP i-communities initiatives
(http://h40058.www4.hp.com/icommunity2/index.asp) and discussions over
printing issues in South Africa by an SA publisher, further discussed in
Wikimania
(http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2005_Presentations#Wikimedia_in_the_Developing_World
for general overview), where legal issues over teaching text printint in
South Africa where raised by Achal
(http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Transwiki:Wikimania05/Presentation-AP1).

... which lead me actually wondering if any printing in South Africa
would be a good idea :-) but also suggest that we have many contacts and
several potential sponsors for projects in that country (which we
absolutely don't for projects in say... Algeria or Nigeria).

I'll be interested by your thoughts on the matter, such as which types
of books would be most necessary for kids (and problematic for you to
get by other means). If you would be interested by collaborating with us
(which would imply finding a publisher to produce some of the
wikijunior, and of course cash to produce them). Of course, this would
not happen in 3 months of time, but I doubt the issue of kids needing
books badly will be solved by the end of the year.

I look forward to your answer.

Anthere / Florence Devouard

PS : I presume other initiatives might be of interest, but these are
those at the top of my mind. I also remember south african editors
working on a books dealing with mathematics (or was is physics ?) at
high school or university level, but I lost memory of those. Maybe
someone will remember a link or two as well.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l

Forwarded to Marlies, as it seems gmane did not get it when I added him
in the cc... my message at the end of yours Marlies.

By the way... for those of you who wonder why the name of their
organisation is Biblionef... it seems to be originally a french initiative..

A "Bibliothèque" is a library in french. And the little buses
circulating to bring books in villages are called "bibliobus".

Anthere


PS : this was the little cultural minute.


Anthere wrote:
> Anthere wrote:
>
>>Hello,
>>
>>Let me forward this email to Foundation-l for other
>>people feedback, and let's keep in touch with this in
>>any case :-)
>>
>>Florence Devouard
>>
>>
>>--- Marlies Klooster <marliesklooster@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>This is the e-mail I meant.
>>>
>>>Thank you!
>>>
>>>Marlies
>>>
>>>Begin forwarded message:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>From: Jimmy Wales <jwales@wikia.com>
>>>>Date: 17 July 2006 2:21:43 PM
>>>>To: Marlies Klooster <marliesklooster@gmail.com>
>>>>Subject: Re: Wikipedia and books for African
>>>
>>>children
>>>
>>>
>>>>Thank you! :) You might consider sending this
>>>
>>>email as well to
>>>
>>>
>>>>foundation-l@wikimedia.org so that more people in
>>>
>>>our community will
>>>
>>>
>>>>see
>>>>it and learn about this wonderful organization.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Marlies Klooster wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Dear Mr Walsh,
>>>>>
>>>>>I am impressed by the work and initiatives of
>>>
>>>Wikimedia, especially
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Wikipedia. You developed something that is truly
>>>
>>>unique for our times
>>>
>>>
>>>>>and I want you to compliment for that. Recently I
>>>
>>>read an interview
>>>
>>>
>>>>>with
>>>>>you in the Dutch newspaper NRC (www.nrc.nl) in
>>>
>>>which you made the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>intriguing remark that if Wikipedia were ever to
>>>
>>>make money from
>>>
>>>
>>>>>advertisements, you would want this money to go
>>>
>>>to books for children
>>>
>>>
>>>>>in
>>>>>Africa.
>>>>>
>>>>>As a volunteer and fundraiser for Biblionef I
>>>
>>>feel I should tell you
>>>
>>>
>>>>>about this great book organization I know:
>>>
>>>Biblionef. This NGO donates
>>>
>>>
>>>>>new storybooks--free of charge--to needy
>>>
>>>children’s organisations
>>>
>>>
>>>>>throughout South Africa. (There are more
>>>
>>>Biblionefs in other
>>>
>>>
>>>>>countries,
>>>>>see http://www.biblionef.org/). Since 1999
>>>
>>>Biblionef South Africa only
>>>
>>>
>>>>>has donated over 250.000 books. Their target
>>>
>>>group comprises children
>>>
>>>
>>>>>living in disadvantaged communities who have no
>>>
>>>access to books.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Biblionef is unique in South Africa in the sense
>>>
>>>that the books they
>>>
>>>
>>>>>donate are in each child’s own language, which
>>>
>>>means they cover all of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>South Africa’s eleven languages.
>>>>>
>>>>>In South Africa over 60% of schools have no
>>>
>>>library and at least half
>>>
>>>
>>>>>of
>>>>>them is located more than 40 miles away from a
>>>
>>>public library. The
>>>
>>>
>>>>>main
>>>>>aim of Biblionef’s work is to establish a culture
>>>
>>>of reading. This is
>>>
>>>
>>>>>only possible when the books have an impact on
>>>
>>>children. That is why
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Biblionef carefully collects the books that will
>>>
>>>be donated. In doing
>>>
>>>
>>>>>so
>>>>>Biblionef closely cooperates with local
>>>
>>>publishers in various ways.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Publishers donate newly published storybooks in
>>>
>>>the African languages
>>>
>>>
>>>>>to
>>>>>Biblionef. For other projects Biblionef initiates
>>>
>>>reprints or
>>>
>>>
>>>>>publications. Whenever possible Biblionef links
>>>
>>>its donation to
>>>
>>>
>>>>>existing
>>>>>reading initiatives or plans.
>>>>>
>>>>>I personally worked with Biblionef for over a
>>>
>>>year, during which we
>>>
>>>
>>>>>created the website (www.biblionefsa.org.za) and
>>>
>>>during which I had
>>>
>>>
>>>>>the
>>>>>chance to visit a great number of schools and
>>>
>>>libraries who had (or
>>>
>>>
>>>>>asked for) Biblionef books. Some were really
>>>
>>>small, some had hardly
>>>
>>>
>>>>>any
>>>>>books but they were always FULL with children.
>>>
>>>You have to visit an
>>>
>>>
>>>>>African library to understand its importance in a
>>>
>>>world deprived of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>information and quiet workspace. A number of
>>>
>>>those libraries is in the
>>>
>>>
>>>>>process of getting computers and internet
>>>
>>>connection, too. But doesn't
>>>
>>>
>>>>>all learning and reading start with colourful
>>>
>>>stories conveyed in
>>>
>>>
>>>>>quality books? If you ever have the opportunity
>>>
>>>to donate toward books
>>>
>>>
>>>>>for children in Africa, I strongly hope you will
>>>
>>>think of Biblionef.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Thank you so much for your time and
>>>
>>>consideration.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>Kind regards,
>>>>>
>>>>>Marlies Klooster
>>>>>for: Biblionef South Africa
>>>>>http://www.biblionefsa.org.za
>>>>>
>>>>>Biblionef is a member of the American Fund for
>>>
>>>Charities, a 501(c)(3)
>>>
>>>
>>>>>public charity that allows American individuals
>>>
>>>and companies to make
>>>
>>>
>>>>>tax-deductible donations to Biblionef SA through
>>>
>>>their fund.
>>>
>>>
>>>>>"Motho ke motho ka batho babang" (A person is a
>>>
>>>person because of
>>>
>>>
>>>>>others)
>
>
> Dear Marlies,
>
> We look forward collaborating with initiatives such as yours.
> I presume you are familiar with the concept of our project, collecting
> and organising information, which may be used or reused by anyone. The
> ultimate idea being to help increase access to information to anyone in
> the world, regardless of his country, race, gender, age, financial
> situation etc...
>
> The fact is that we are good at collecting information. We are good at
> organising it. We are frankly not very good at publishing it on a medium
> other than internet. And we are not good at all at distributing it
> (except that through internet channel).
> In short, creating content is one job. Publishing/distributing is a
> different job. And one which requires for us to set up collaborations,
> in particular when distribution is done in countries where rather few of
> us live (such as South Africa) or in specific situations (such as
> distribution in school).
>
> To make it clear immediately, we do not give money to organisations. All
> what we collect ourselves is needed to make our own organisation run.
>
> Quick overview of the South African initiatives.
> Basically, three projects are of a size which might interest you.
> Wikipedia (encyclopedia), Wikibooks (textbooks and manuals) and
> Wiktionary (dictionary).
>
> Only two of your languages are decently covered in wikipedia as far as I
> know : english and afrikaans. If other languages exist, they are
> probably essentially inactive due to lack of participants. I do not
> think we could trigger translations initiatives in other languages due
> to the lack of human force :-) (your help would be welcome :-)).
>
> As for Wiktionary and Wikibooks, you may consider they only exist in
> english for now.
>
> English wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org (roughly one million articles)
> Afrikaans wikipedia : http://af.wikipedia.org (roughly 5000 articles)
>
> If you are looking for a kid version of an encyclopedia, there was
> recently an initiative by SOS Children (contact Andrew Cates).
> See here for more :
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipedia-CD/Download
>
> That's actually a selection of articles, not articles written for
> children. It is in HTML version, may be downloaded for print. But it
> will not constitute a book per se. Still, it may interest you.
>
>
> More interesting probably are what we call wikijuniors. These are books
> developped on Wikibooks. As all of our content, these are free to use.
> These books are developped specifically for children. They are partially
> or totally translated in other languages (probably not those which
> interest you at this point).
> I invite you to have a look at this initiative.
> http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Wikijunior
>
> There are rather few books for now, but the concept is now set up and
> there is no limit to what we could do. I'll add that knowing that a book
> is used, in particular to children in need, is a great incentive for an
> author. Most of the content originates from Wikipedia, but is re-worked
> to fit kids needs.
>
> You will notice that some of those books are now "finished". Some are
> currently in the works.
> Amongst those finished, there is one which may be purchased as a print
> version by LULU (please see http://www.lulu.com/content/346504 for
> reference).
>
> To realise these Wikijunior, we got financial support from an american
> Foundation. This support was just renewed, so that we could push forward
> this initiative. I consequently expect that we'll get more books soon in
> the future. It would actually be interesting to have a feedback from an
> organisation from yours as to which books would be most necessary.
>
> So, at one end of the rope, we have content. At the other end of the
> rope, we have Biblionef. What we need in between is a publisher and
> money to publish.
>
> I actually went to South Africa in september 2005, to participate to
> discussions over FLOSS (free and open software/content) in South Africa,
> and in my case, over the creation of a Wikiversity project
> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikiversity)
>
> During these discussions
> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Conference_reports/FLOSS%2C_South_Africa_2005/Workshop_2),
> I remember a presentation about the HP i-communities initiatives
> (http://h40058.www4.hp.com/icommunity2/index.asp) and discussions over
> printing issues in South Africa by an SA publisher, further discussed in
> Wikimania
> (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimania_2005_Presentations#Wikimedia_in_the_Developing_World
> for general overview), where legal issues over teaching text printint in
> South Africa where raised by Achal
> (http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Transwiki:Wikimania05/Presentation-AP1).
>
> ... which lead me actually wondering if any printing in South Africa
> would be a good idea :-) but also suggest that we have many contacts and
> several potential sponsors for projects in that country (which we
> absolutely don't for projects in say... Algeria or Nigeria).
>
> I'll be interested by your thoughts on the matter, such as which types
> of books would be most necessary for kids (and problematic for you to
> get by other means). If you would be interested by collaborating with us
> (which would imply finding a publisher to produce some of the
> wikijunior, and of course cash to produce them). Of course, this would
> not happen in 3 months of time, but I doubt the issue of kids needing
> books badly will be solved by the end of the year.
>
> I look forward to your answer.
>
> Anthere / Florence Devouard
>
> PS : I presume other initiatives might be of interest, but these are
> those at the top of my mind. I also remember south african editors
> working on a books dealing with mathematics (or was is physics ?) at
> high school or university level, but I lost memory of those. Maybe
> someone will remember a link or two as well.

_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l