Delphine Ménard wrote:
>I am top posting and breaking the thread on purpose, as I am not
>trying to address all the concerns in this thread, but rather trying
>to give a little background and a different perspective.
>
>I have followed, in my position as local chapter coordinator, the
>different steps in the founding of both the Vereniging (member
>association) and Stichting (Foundation). For those who are puzzled by
>this double organisational background, let me give you some
>explanation.
>
>A Vereniging is a member organisation, much on the model of all other
>Wikimedia Chapters. Its board is elected by the general assembly, made
>up of members who pay their fees to be part of the organisation. Note
>that members *have* to be part of the Wikimedia projects to be members
>of the organisation. Which, if anything, puts the power in the hands
>of *the community*.
>
This is absolutely contradictory to what RonaldB writes. HE writes:
(http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:De_kroeg#Een_poging_tot_samenvatting)
"Iedereen, er is geen enkele beperking, kan lid worden. Zelfs mensen die
nergens aktief zijn. Nederlanders en niet-Nederlanders, enz."
"Everybody, there is no limitation, can become a member. Even people who
are active nowhere. Dutch people, non Dutch people."
And this is just the first of a couple of contradictions between what
you write in English and what RonaldB writes in Dutch. You write the
rosy "it is al ok, trust us version" . RonaldB writes how he wants it to
be .... which is the reason why more and more people do not trust it
..... version! Have you ever read RonaldB's how he sees Wikipedia? See
(http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebruiker:RonaldB/De_wiki_als_systeem
...... The wiki as a system) All his statements in there are
contradictionary to what the current system is. Basically he wants to
create a Wikistate. With wikiparliament etc. He has openly said before
he wants to use a foundation to reach this goal.
There were 5 meetings. In the notules of the 4th meeting we can see:
RonaldB proposes a foundation to be started as well. But it was decided
to wait with that untill after the starting of an association. In the
notules of the 5th and last meeting all of a sudden it pops up again.
RonaldB proposes creation of a foundation and all of a sudden everyone
agrees! After which RonaldB goes of quickly and does this.
Now RonaldB was the one registering both the foundation and association,
he is the only person in the board of both, they are both registered in
the place that he lives. With RonaldB's openly stated goals of a totally
different future for the projects, him taking the lead in everyhing and
him refusing to responding to questions or delaying his response .....
he waited with answering for a week! Untill people threatened to start a
desysopping against him. then he all of a sudden responded. A person who
acts like this ..... how can I trust him or her?
Apart from that RonaldB doesn't answer questions. He writes around them.
I know the writing style very very very well. I have studied on it a
long time ago when I still was in school. No direct answers anywhere,
just repeating of statements.
In short this whole thing has gone against the explicit wishes in a vote
of the community. A majority when asked was for association. Almost
everybody was against the foundation form. Now I know their is a request
to the board to recognize both foundation and association. I feel that
if for now the board recognizes the association so the community has
more time to look at the foundation that would be a way to go forward.
After all the forming of an association was discussed for a year. The
foundation was just pushed through without a discussion!
Waerth/Walter
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>I am top posting and breaking the thread on purpose, as I am not
>trying to address all the concerns in this thread, but rather trying
>to give a little background and a different perspective.
>
>I have followed, in my position as local chapter coordinator, the
>different steps in the founding of both the Vereniging (member
>association) and Stichting (Foundation). For those who are puzzled by
>this double organisational background, let me give you some
>explanation.
>
>A Vereniging is a member organisation, much on the model of all other
>Wikimedia Chapters. Its board is elected by the general assembly, made
>up of members who pay their fees to be part of the organisation. Note
>that members *have* to be part of the Wikimedia projects to be members
>of the organisation. Which, if anything, puts the power in the hands
>of *the community*.
>
This is absolutely contradictory to what RonaldB writes. HE writes:
(http://nl.wikimedia.org/wiki/Wikimedia:De_kroeg#Een_poging_tot_samenvatting)
"Iedereen, er is geen enkele beperking, kan lid worden. Zelfs mensen die
nergens aktief zijn. Nederlanders en niet-Nederlanders, enz."
"Everybody, there is no limitation, can become a member. Even people who
are active nowhere. Dutch people, non Dutch people."
And this is just the first of a couple of contradictions between what
you write in English and what RonaldB writes in Dutch. You write the
rosy "it is al ok, trust us version" . RonaldB writes how he wants it to
be .... which is the reason why more and more people do not trust it
..... version! Have you ever read RonaldB's how he sees Wikipedia? See
(http://nl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gebruiker:RonaldB/De_wiki_als_systeem
...... The wiki as a system) All his statements in there are
contradictionary to what the current system is. Basically he wants to
create a Wikistate. With wikiparliament etc. He has openly said before
he wants to use a foundation to reach this goal.
There were 5 meetings. In the notules of the 4th meeting we can see:
RonaldB proposes a foundation to be started as well. But it was decided
to wait with that untill after the starting of an association. In the
notules of the 5th and last meeting all of a sudden it pops up again.
RonaldB proposes creation of a foundation and all of a sudden everyone
agrees! After which RonaldB goes of quickly and does this.
Now RonaldB was the one registering both the foundation and association,
he is the only person in the board of both, they are both registered in
the place that he lives. With RonaldB's openly stated goals of a totally
different future for the projects, him taking the lead in everyhing and
him refusing to responding to questions or delaying his response .....
he waited with answering for a week! Untill people threatened to start a
desysopping against him. then he all of a sudden responded. A person who
acts like this ..... how can I trust him or her?
Apart from that RonaldB doesn't answer questions. He writes around them.
I know the writing style very very very well. I have studied on it a
long time ago when I still was in school. No direct answers anywhere,
just repeating of statements.
In short this whole thing has gone against the explicit wishes in a vote
of the community. A majority when asked was for association. Almost
everybody was against the foundation form. Now I know their is a request
to the board to recognize both foundation and association. I feel that
if for now the board recognizes the association so the community has
more time to look at the foundation that would be a way to go forward.
After all the forming of an association was discussed for a year. The
foundation was just pushed through without a discussion!
Waerth/Walter
_______________________________________________
foundation-l mailing list
foundation-l@wikimedia.org
http://mail.wikipedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l