Mailing List Archive

Brianna Laugher wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I think having alternating sitenotices (between the licensing vote and
> the Wikimania CFP/scholarships) is confusing for some people who
> expect to see a link there for voting. See the comments at
> http://creativecommons.org/weblog/entry/13967 for example.
>
> Could we please have both at once, or if not, just the licensing one?
> I think the licensing vote is important enough that everyone should be
> given the best possible opportunity to participate.
>
I agree, and was momentarily thrown off by the mixed notices myself.
Since watchlists are often used for other broad notifications, could we
get Wikimania put on there so that word can still get out while we run
the licensing vote?

--Michael Snow

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On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Michael Snow <wikipedia@verizon.net> wrote:
> Since watchlists are often used for other broad notifications, could we
> get Wikimania put on there so that word can still get out while we run
> the licensing vote?
>

No. Unfortunately, there is no way to make a global watchlist notice.
(Tomek: feature request? ;-))

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
> No.  Unfortunately, there is no way to make a global watchlist notice.

That sounded overly harsh. :-) Yes, we technically *could*, but that
would be per wiki. I'm not sure how the scholarships committee would
feel about that. Though, I definitely agree that this is a little
confusing to the people viewing the notices.

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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Casey Brown wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:21 AM, Michael Snow <wikipedia@verizon.net> wrote:
>
>> Since watchlists are often used for other broad notifications, could we
>> get Wikimania put on there so that word can still get out while we run
>> the licensing vote?
>>
> No. Unfortunately, there is no way to make a global watchlist notice.
>
You mean yes, but it would be a little more work.

--Michael Snow

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Casey Brown wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> No. Unfortunately, there is no way to make a global watchlist notice.
>>
> That sounded overly harsh. :-) Yes, we technically *could*, but that
> would be per wiki.
That's okay, my previous reply was a little snarky itself. I don't know
that we have a perfect solution, but I think the mixed messages are
worth fixing.

--Michael Snow

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2009/4/14 Michael Snow <wikipedia@verizon.net>:
> That's okay, my previous reply was a little snarky itself. I don't know
> that we have a perfect solution, but I think the mixed messages are
> worth fixing.

Agreed, and this is an issue that will occur again when we have
overlapping important announcements. My intuitive take is that
stacking messages, or moving them into different places, aren't
scalable solutions. It might be desirable to have a minimal "tab"
interface to switch between multiple active notices. We'll kick around
some ideas, but if anyone wants to create mock-ups or make
suggestions, please do :-)

Erik
--
Erik Möller
Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> 2009/4/14 Michael Snow <wikipedia@verizon.net>:
>> That's okay, my previous reply was a little snarky itself. I don't know
>> that we have a perfect solution, but I think the mixed messages are
>> worth fixing.
>
> Agreed, and this is an issue that will occur again when we have
> overlapping important announcements. My intuitive take is that
> stacking messages, or moving them into different places, aren't
> scalable solutions. It might be desirable to have a minimal "tab"
> interface to switch between multiple active notices. We'll kick around
> some ideas, but if anyone wants to create mock-ups or make
> suggestions, please do :-)


There is also a related issue that dismissing ANY central notice
results in hiding all central notices for 7 days. I think having
multiple simultaneous notices would be less of a problem if one could
dismiss or collapse them individually.

As it is, there are people who have never seen the licensing
notification because they closed the Wikimania box before the
licensing message was posted.

-Robert Rohde

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Robert Rohde wrote:
> There is also a related issue that dismissing ANY central notice
> results in hiding all central notices for 7 days. I think having
> multiple simultaneous notices would be less of a problem if one could
> dismiss or collapse them individually.
>
> As it is, there are people who have never seen the licensing
> notification because they closed the Wikimania box before the
> licensing message was posted.
>
We do have the ability to reset that, or so I seem to recall from an
earlier use for the fundraiser. I would think it was worthwhile to do in
this circumstance, with apologies to those who have dismissed the notice
after voting already.

--Michael Snow

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So far as I know, this is solved by givine each centralnotice a
different id (which is how they're identified to be hidden - or at least
that was the case in the past). Should be easy to do.

-Mike

On Tue, 2009-04-14 at 09:56 -0700, Robert Rohde wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org> wrote:
> > 2009/4/14 Michael Snow <wikipedia@verizon.net>:
> >> That's okay, my previous reply was a little snarky itself. I don't know
> >> that we have a perfect solution, but I think the mixed messages are
> >> worth fixing.
> >
> > Agreed, and this is an issue that will occur again when we have
> > overlapping important announcements. My intuitive take is that
> > stacking messages, or moving them into different places, aren't
> > scalable solutions. It might be desirable to have a minimal "tab"
> > interface to switch between multiple active notices. We'll kick around
> > some ideas, but if anyone wants to create mock-ups or make
> > suggestions, please do :-)
>
>
> There is also a related issue that dismissing ANY central notice
> results in hiding all central notices for 7 days. I think having
> multiple simultaneous notices would be less of a problem if one could
> dismiss or collapse them individually.
>
> As it is, there are people who have never seen the licensing
> notification because they closed the Wikimania box before the
> licensing message was posted.
>
> -Robert Rohde
>
>
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On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Mike.lifeguard
<mikelifeguard@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> So far as I know, this is solved by givine each centralnotice a
> different id (which is how they're identified to be hidden - or at least
> that was the case in the past). Should be easy to do.

In the current implementation, hiding central notices is a binary
state (either all hidden or all shown). There is no ID. Such an ID
exists in the notices used locally at places like enwiki, but not the
global notices.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/centralnotice/wikimedia/en/centralnotice.js?207xx

-Robert

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I don't think that's true... The id is centralNotice. Hiding that id
with css works if you add it to your monobook. Both the centralnotices
use that id (so far as I know), so making them use different ones would
then allow you to hide one but not the other, alternate them etc etc.

-Mike

On Tue, 2009-04-14 at 10:49 -0700, Robert Rohde wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:39 AM, Mike.lifeguard
> <mikelifeguard@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> > So far as I know, this is solved by givine each centralnotice a
> > different id (which is how they're identified to be hidden - or at least
> > that was the case in the past). Should be easy to do.
>
> In the current implementation, hiding central notices is a binary
> state (either all hidden or all shown). There is no ID. Such an ID
> exists in the notices used locally at places like enwiki, but not the
> global notices.
>
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/centralnotice/wikimedia/en/centralnotice.js?207xx
>
> -Robert
>
>
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On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 11:02 AM, Mike.lifeguard
<mikelifeguard@fastmail.fm> wrote:
> I don't think that's true... The id is centralNotice. Hiding that id
> with css works if you add it to your monobook. Both the centralnotices
> use that id (so far as I know), so making them use different ones would
> then allow you to hide one but not the other, alternate them etc etc.

We are talking about the [hide] button built into the central notices
themselves.

Yes one could do other things with personal CSS/JS but the behavior of
the normal [hide] button should be modified to hide only the current
notice, and not hide all presently active central notices. In the
prior email I was saying there is no notice specific ID. Yes, all
notices use id="centralNotice", but changing that to a notice specific
ID will break other things.

The link I included in the last email shows the JS code for central
notices, have a look for yourself.

Obviously there are multiple possible implementations, but the
existing one ought to be improved.

-Robert

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2009/4/15 Erik Moeller <erik@wikimedia.org>:
> 2009/4/14 Michael Snow <wikipedia@verizon.net>:
>> That's okay, my previous reply was a little snarky itself. I don't know
>> that we have a perfect solution, but I think the mixed messages are
>> worth fixing.
>
> Agreed, and this is an issue that will occur again when we have
> overlapping important announcements. My intuitive take is that
> stacking messages, or moving them into different places, aren't
> scalable solutions. It might be desirable to have a minimal "tab"
> interface to switch between multiple active notices. We'll kick around
> some ideas, but if anyone wants to create mock-ups or make
> suggestions, please do :-)

Tabs are for stuff you care about. It doesn't make sense to use them
for unbidden "notices".

The notices could be briefer, I mean they could be "Licensing update -
vote" and "Wikimania scholarships - apply". Then combining them would
not be so bad.

A long term resolution is a good idea, but to resolve the current
problem, could we please at least combine the messages for the term of
the licensing vote?

Brianna

--
They've just been waiting in a mountain for the right moment:
http://modernthings.org/

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2009/4/14 Brianna Laugher <brianna.laugher@gmail.com>:
> Tabs are for stuff you care about. It doesn't make sense to use them
> for unbidden "notices".

Fair enough; Brion suggested that we should think about a message
queue type approach for this.

> A long term resolution is a good idea, but to resolve the current
> problem, could we please at least combine the messages for the term of
> the licensing vote?

Yeah, we'll definitely look into a short-term fix like that. Might
still take a few days to get it sorted out.
--
Erik Möller
Deputy Director, Wikimedia Foundation

Support Free Knowledge: http://wikimediafoundation.org/wiki/Donate

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On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Brianna Laugher
<brianna.laugher@gmail.com> wrote:
> Could we please have both at once

We now have a combined notice running. Hopefully, this is a better
way of doing it (even though it's not as pretty).

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 13:30, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Brianna Laugher
> <brianna.laugher@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Could we please have both at once
>
> We now have a combined notice running.  Hopefully, this is a better
> way of doing it (even though it's not as pretty).

I just hope you guys settle down on something soon. I'm tired of
playing whack-a-mole with the sitenotices.

--
Mark
[[en:User:Carnildo]]

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On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Mark Wagner <carnildo@gmail.com> wrote:
> I just hope you guys settle down on something soon.  I'm tired of
> playing whack-a-mole with the sitenotices.
>

Hmm? This is the only time we changed it. :-) The cookies expire
after a week, if you're referring to the notices re-appearing.

--
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On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 6:30 AM, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Brianna Laugher
> <brianna.laugher@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Could we please have both at once
>
> We now have a combined notice running.  Hopefully, this is a better
> way of doing it (even though it's not as pretty).
>
> --
> Casey Brown
> Cbrown1023
TBH it looks ugly and wastes even more precious screen space.

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2009/4/22 Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com>:
> On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 10:09 AM, Brianna Laugher
> <brianna.laugher@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Could we please have both at once
>
> We now have a combined notice running. Hopefully, this is a better
> way of doing it (even though it's not as pretty).

Thanks Casey and whoever else helped resolve this!

Brianna


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On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 18:40, Casey Brown <cbrown1023.ml@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 21, 2009 at 9:36 PM, Mark Wagner <carnildo@gmail.com> wrote:
>> I just hope you guys settle down on something soon.  I'm tired of
>> playing whack-a-mole with the sitenotices.
>>
>
> Hmm?  This is the only time we changed it. :-)  The cookies expire
> after a week, if you're referring to the notices re-appearing.

Since I regularly access Wikipedia from four different computers, that
would explain why I'm swatting a sitenotice every day or two.

--
Mark
[[en:User:Carnildo]]

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On Wed, Apr 22, 2009 at 4:47 PM, Mark Wagner <carnildo@gmail.com> wrote:
> Since I regularly access Wikipedia from four different computers, that
> would explain why I'm swatting a sitenotice every day or two.
>

You can disable it in your .css if you want to. Adding
"#centralNotice {display:none !important;}" to
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Mypage/monobook.css> should
work.

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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