Mailing List Archive

on 2/8/09 2:41 PM, David Gerard at dgerard@gmail.com wrote:

> I've proposed something that may help in this matter on en:wp:
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard#
> How_to_raise_the_tone_of_the_wiki
>
> Comments and suggestions there are likely to be read by the en:wp arbcom.
>
>
Thank you for this, David. I can see from reading the dialogue on the Talk
Page that many do feel a declining tone of civility in the Project. But I
also see several who insist on going the "show me your proof" route. Thanks,
also for not being dragged into that avoidance pit.

In a city, when the cops are overwhelmed by the growing amount of crime, and
seem not to have the sufficient amount of manpower to present to it all, the
people form neighborhood watch groups. In this way, every person in that
neighborhood becomes an enforcer of the laws and policies of that
neighborhood. The well-worn phrase is "take back our neighborhood". I
believe it is time for the quiet majority of us to stop being so quiet and
to take back our culture.

Marc


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2009/2/8 Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86@comcast.net>:
> on 2/8/09 2:41 PM, David Gerard at dgerard@gmail.com wrote:

>> I've proposed something that may help in this matter on en:wp:
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboard#
>> How_to_raise_the_tone_of_the_wiki
>> Comments and suggestions there are likely to be read by the en:wp arbcom.

> Thank you for this, David. I can see from reading the dialogue on the Talk
> Page that many do feel a declining tone of civility in the Project. But I
> also see several who insist on going the "show me your proof" route. Thanks,
> also for not being dragged into that avoidance pit.


I specifically avoided giving examples, because the focus would then
be turned only on those. And also, if people don't see it then they
aren't going to be convinced by any number of examples.


> In a city, when the cops are overwhelmed by the growing amount of crime, and
> seem not to have the sufficient amount of manpower to present to it all, the
> people form neighborhood watch groups. In this way, every person in that
> neighborhood becomes an enforcer of the laws and policies of that
> neighborhood. The well-worn phrase is "take back our neighborhood". I
> believe it is time for the quiet majority of us to stop being so quiet and
> to take back our culture.


You've advocated top-down action at length - on en:wp, the closest
there is is not the Foundation, not Jimmy Wales, not me or various
Foundation volunteers like me, but the arbcom. And they're not really
a government, but have occasion to reluctantly be the closest there is
to one on en:wp. Starting at the top (the arbcom) and acting
specifically on chronic personal attacks by admins will, I predict,
have a *remarkable* effect on the tone of the place.


- d.

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> 2009/2/8 Marc Riddell <michaeldavid86@comcast.net>:
>> on 2/8/09 2:41 PM, David Gerard at dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>> I've proposed something that may help in this matter on en:wp:
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Arbitration_Committee/Noticeboar
>>> d#
>>> How_to_raise_the_tone_of_the_wiki
>>> Comments and suggestions there are likely to be read by the en:wp arbcom.
>
>> Thank you for this, David. I can see from reading the dialogue on the Talk
>> Page that many do feel a declining tone of civility in the Project. But I
>> also see several who insist on going the "show me your proof" route. Thanks,
>> also for not being dragged into that avoidance pit.
>
on 2/8/09 6:17 PM, David Gerard at dgerard@gmail.com wrote:
>
> I specifically avoided giving examples, because the focus would then
> be turned only on those. And also, if people don't see it then they
> aren't going to be convinced by any number of examples.
>
>
>> In a city, when the cops are overwhelmed by the growing amount of crime, and
>> seem not to have the sufficient amount of manpower to present to it all, the
>> people form neighborhood watch groups. In this way, every person in that
>> neighborhood becomes an enforcer of the laws and policies of that
>> neighborhood. The well-worn phrase is "take back our neighborhood". I
>> believe it is time for the quiet majority of us to stop being so quiet and
>> to take back our culture.
>
>
> You've advocated top-down action at length - on en:wp, the closest
> there is is not the Foundation, not Jimmy Wales, not me or various
> Foundation volunteers like me, but the arbcom. And they're not really
> a government, but have occasion to reluctantly be the closest there is
> to one on en:wp. Starting at the top (the arbcom) and acting
> specifically on chronic personal attacks by admins will, I predict,
> have a *remarkable* effect on the tone of the place.
>
I have advocated "top-down" intervention because the situation seemed to be
getting worse by the day. I trust your judgment about the effects of
stronger arbcom intervention, David. I also see a great benefit in the
average editors getting involved and confronting the problem every time they
encounter it. Perhaps these two elements working simultaneously can send the
strongest message of all.

Marc


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