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Fwd: Trouble in Ireland
Forwarding this to wikien-l which is really the place for this. I
would be grateful if the discussion could ensue there, not here.


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Michael Everson <everson@evertype.com>
Date: Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:21 PM
Subject: [Foundation-l] Trouble in Ireland
To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org


I don't know whether this is a reasonable place to put this problem,
but the articles on Ireland on en.wikipedia.org need a serious look by
people with a neutral view. Right now we've got a clique of about 10
editors filibustering and preventing any change to the article naming
conventions. It's driving us mad, and preventing the articles
themselves from being improved. Somehow I think we need binding
arbitration.

A number of us think that the most sensible proposal is to move
[[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] to
[[Ireland]], and [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland (state)]].
That's a compromise over an alternative, which is to move [[Ireland]]
to [[Ireland (island)]], keep [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] where it
is, and move [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland]]. If any of you
would like to take a look, please see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland_(disambiguation)#Proposed_move_to_Ireland
and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland#Proposed_move_to_Ireland_.28island.29
.

At least I'd like advice as to how we can get out of this mess.

Michael Everson

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Michael Bimmler
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Re: Fwd: Trouble in Ireland [ In reply to ]
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Michael Everson <everson@evertype.com>
> Date: Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:21 PM
> Subject: [Foundation-l] Trouble in Ireland
> To: foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
>
>
> I don't know whether this is a reasonable place to put this problem,
> but the articles on Ireland on en.wikipedia.org need a serious look by
> people with a neutral view. Right now we've got a clique of about 10
> editors filibustering and preventing any change to the article naming
> conventions. It's driving us mad, and preventing the articles
> themselves from being improved. Somehow I think we need binding
> arbitration.
>
> A number of us think that the most sensible proposal is to move
> [[Ireland]] to [[Ireland (island)]], [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] to
> [[Ireland]], and [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland (state)]].
> That's a compromise over an alternative, which is to move [[Ireland]]
> to [[Ireland (island)]], keep [[Ireland (disambiguation)]] where it
> is, and move [[Republic of Ireland]] to [[Ireland]]. If any of you
> would like to take a look, please see
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland_(disambiguation)#Proposed_move_to_Ireland
> and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Ireland#Proposed_move_to_Ireland_.28island.29
> .
>
> At least I'd like advice as to how we can get out of this mess.
>
> Michael Everson
>


There's a place on enwp called the "administrators noticeboard", you
can bring this up there. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN>

--
Casey Brown
Cbrown1023

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Re: Fwd: Trouble in Ireland [ In reply to ]
On 26 Nov 2008, at 13:27, Casey Brown wrote:

> There's a place on enwp called the "administrators noticeboard", you
> can bring this up there. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN>

It's already there, at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AN#Ireland_page_moves
but most Admins seem to want to stay far away from this.

Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com


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Re: Fwd: Trouble in Ireland [ In reply to ]
As Michael Bimmler suggested, I think too that wikien-l would be more
appropriate. This is an English Wikipedia issue, not a Wikimedia issue.

BR, Lodewijk

2008/11/26 Michael Everson <everson@evertype.com>

> On 26 Nov 2008, at 13:27, Casey Brown wrote:
>
> > There's a place on enwp called the "administrators noticeboard", you
> > can bring this up there. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN>
>
> It's already there, at
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AN#Ireland_page_moves
> but most Admins seem to want to stay far away from this.
>
> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
>
>
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Re: Fwd: Trouble in Ireland [ In reply to ]
I think perhaps the intent was to get English and Irish editors
involved. This has been on and off of the noticeboards at
en.wikipedia.org multiple times, through Arbcom at least once, etc.

-Dan
On Nov 26, 2008, at 9:25 AM, effe iets anders wrote:

> As Michael Bimmler suggested, I think too that wikien-l would be more
> appropriate. This is an English Wikipedia issue, not a Wikimedia
> issue.
>
> BR, Lodewijk
>
> 2008/11/26 Michael Everson <everson@evertype.com>
>
>> On 26 Nov 2008, at 13:27, Casey Brown wrote:
>>
>>> There's a place on enwp called the "administrators noticeboard", you
>>> can bring this up there. <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:AN>
>>
>> It's already there, at
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:AN#Ireland_page_moves
>> but most Admins seem to want to stay far away from this.
>>
>> Michael Everson * http://www.evertype.com
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
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>> foundation-l
>>
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Re: Fwd: Trouble in Ireland [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 3:29 PM, Dan Rosenthal <swatjester@gmail.com> wrote:
> I think perhaps the intent was to get English and Irish editors
> involved. This has been on and off of the noticeboards at
> en.wikipedia.org multiple times, through Arbcom at least once, etc.
>


wikipedia-l ?



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Re: Fwd: Trouble in Ireland [ In reply to ]
Its been through arbitration in more than one formulation and discussed to
death on all the noticeboards, and there is a dedicated cadre of admins
working on it. I don't think even having the discussion on WikiEn-L is
likely to benefit the situation. It isn't only our articles that reflect
real world disputes - our editors, and the disputes between them, do too. We
can't fix the world, and we're unlikely to be able to insulate Wikipedia
from it.

Nathan
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