Mailing List Archive

Philippe Beaudette wrote:
> Hi Phoebe,
>
> Thanks for your comments. As you note, our intent is not to disenfranchise
> anyone who is a part of this community. I'm curious about how many people
> we're actually talking about, and perhaps we can get someone to run some
> numbers... (x number of community members who would otherwise meet voting
> requirements would be disenfranchised by the "50 edit" clause). I'll take
> them to the election list and discuss; once we have an outcome I'll share it
> with you and the group.
>
> Philippe


<raises hand>

There are virtually certainly times in the over 5 years that I have
been happily considering myself a member of the wikimedian/pedian
community, when this requirement would have disenfranchised me.

I think particularly of several episodes when I was nearly obsessively
involved with the Distributed Proofreaders project for proofing texts
collaboratively for Project Gutenberg.

Even though I may have not made a huge number of wikiedits during such
periods of obsession at those projects, I virtually certainly still
remained active in policy etc. discussions off-wiki (and yes, I know
some may - in their own view, deservedly - scoff at that), I do wish
to positively state that I didn't feel I had left wikimedia then, or
was somehow out of touch with what was going on with people and persons
on-wiki.

Frankly 50 edits in 61 days is not right as a measure. I would hesitate
to say even 50 edits in 6 months would be lenient enough, though perhaps
such a requirement would not affect many people, one has to ask, why
use a coliander that strains out so few grains, when it is virtually
sure some of those rule ineligible by the criterion, will find it
hurtful and perhaps even insulting.


Yours in Wikimedia;

Jussi-Ville Heiskanen



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Hoi,
I am likely not to qualify for a vote. I will have more then 1 edit in fifty
WMF projects though. I might qualify in Meta.. but I do not expect that. Can
I add my contributions on the mailing list as well ?
Thanks,
GerardM

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 10:46 PM, Philippe Beaudette <
philippebeaudette@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Phoebe,
>
> Thanks for your comments. As you note, our intent is not to
> disenfranchise
> anyone who is a part of this community. I'm curious about how many people
> we're actually talking about, and perhaps we can get someone to run some
> numbers... (x number of community members who would otherwise meet voting
> requirements would be disenfranchised by the "50 edit" clause). I'll
> take
> them to the election list and discuss; once we have an outcome I'll share
> it
> with you and the group.
>
> Philippe
>
> --------------------------------------------------
> From: "phoebe ayers" <phoebe.wiki@gmail.com>
> Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 3:35 PM
> To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
> Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Official Election Notice -- concerns
> aboutsuffrage requirements
>
> > On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 3:02 PM, Philippe Beaudette
> > <philippebeaudette@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> The 2008 Board election committee announces the 2008 election process.
> >> Wikimedians will have the opportunity to elect one candidate from the
> >> Wikimedia community to serve as a representative on the Board of
> >> Trustees. The successful candidate will serve a one-year term, ending
> in
> >> July 2009.
> >
> > Thanks Phillipe for the announcement and thanks to the election
> > committee for their work!
> >
> > I have one concern about the new requirement that voters must have 50
> > edits between April 1->June 1 on their voting project, as well as the
> > old total edit requirement, in order to gain suffrage in this year's
> > election.
> >
> > To quote the election information page:
> >
> > "You may vote from any one registered account you own on a Wikimedia
> > wiki (you may only vote once, regardless of how many accounts you
> > own). To qualify, this one account must:
> > * not be blocked, and
> > * not be a bot, and
> > * have made at least 600 edits before 01 March 2008 on that wiki
> > (edits on several wikis cannot be combined), and
> > * have made at least 50 edits between 01 April and 01 June 2008 on
> > that wiki."
> >
> > I know several previously very active editors, people I would consider
> > core Wikimedians who know the projects as well as anyone, that happen
> > to be taking a wikibreak this spring -- and this new requirement would
> > disenfranchise them. I can't imagine this was your intent.
> > This problem is compounded by the fact that a) April is already almost
> > over, leaving people just a month to get their edits in; b) the
> > editors most affected by this may not be paying attention to these
> > early election notices (but will want to vote when the time comes); c)
> > since we have not had this requirement in previous elections, it is
> > unlikely that people will be expecting it.
> >
> > I have two suggestions:
> > Either
> > a) drop this part of the requirement
> > or
> > b) start a site notice now for logged-in users on all projects,
> > reminding them of the candidacy cut-off date and suffrage requirements
> > for the election.
> >
> > A site notice, if not already planned for, is probably useful anyway
> > as potential candidates may not read the mailing list or catch the
> > election posts to it.
> >
> > thanks!
> > -- phoebe
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > foundation-l mailing list
> > foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> > Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l
>
>
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Hi Jussi, et al...

Just as an update, the Election Committee is actively discussing these
issues. Since we're pretty geographically distributed, it's not going to be
an "immediate" answer, but please know that these concerns have been
presented and the discussion on them is beginning.

Philippe

--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jussi-Ville Heiskanen" <cimonavaro@gmail.com>
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2008 5:36 PM
To: "Wikimedia Foundation Mailing List" <foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org>
Subject: Re: [Foundation-l] Official Election Notice -- concernsaboutsuffragerequirements

> Philippe Beaudette wrote:
>> Hi Phoebe,
>>
>> Thanks for your comments. As you note, our intent is not to
>> disenfranchise
>> anyone who is a part of this community. I'm curious about how many
>> people
>> we're actually talking about, and perhaps we can get someone to run some
>> numbers... (x number of community members who would otherwise meet voting
>> requirements would be disenfranchised by the "50 edit" clause). I'll
>> take
>> them to the election list and discuss; once we have an outcome I'll share
>> it
>> with you and the group.
>>
>> Philippe
>
>
> <raises hand>
>
> There are virtually certainly times in the over 5 years that I have
> been happily considering myself a member of the wikimedian/pedian
> community, when this requirement would have disenfranchised me.
>
> I think particularly of several episodes when I was nearly obsessively
> involved with the Distributed Proofreaders project for proofing texts
> collaboratively for Project Gutenberg.
>
> Even though I may have not made a huge number of wikiedits during such
> periods of obsession at those projects, I virtually certainly still
> remained active in policy etc. discussions off-wiki (and yes, I know
> some may - in their own view, deservedly - scoff at that), I do wish
> to positively state that I didn't feel I had left wikimedia then, or
> was somehow out of touch with what was going on with people and persons
> on-wiki.
>
> Frankly 50 edits in 61 days is not right as a measure. I would hesitate
> to say even 50 edits in 6 months would be lenient enough, though perhaps
> such a requirement would not affect many people, one has to ask, why
> use a coliander that strains out so few grains, when it is virtually
> sure some of those rule ineligible by the criterion, will find it
> hurtful and perhaps even insulting.
>
>
> Yours in Wikimedia;
>
> Jussi-Ville Heiskanen
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> foundation-l mailing list
> foundation-l@lists.wikimedia.org
> Unsubscribe: https://lists.wikimedia.org/mailman/listinfo/foundation-l


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On Mon, 2008-04-28 at 17:49 -0500, Philippe Beaudette wrote:
> Hi Jussi, et al...
>
> Just as an update, the Election Committee is actively discussing these
> issues. Since we're pretty geographically distributed, it's not going to be
> an "immediate" answer, but please know that these concerns have been
> presented and the discussion on them is beginning.

I would also like to emphasis that the election committee is taking
these comments into account, and will in due course (given our diverse
geographical location) give the community its response, including
rational for whatever is decided.

KTC

--
Experience is a good school but the fees are high.
- Heinrich Heine

On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Gerard Meijssen
<gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hoi,
> I am likely not to qualify for a vote. I will have more then 1 edit in fifty
> WMF projects though. I might qualify in Meta.. but I do not expect that. Can
> I add my contributions on the mailing list as well ?

I propose that posts to Foundation-l count as negative edits.
Negative five edits, even. ;)

(You've got to admit, it might keep list traffic to a readable minimum.)

Austin

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--------------------------------------------------
From: "Jesse Martin (Pathoschild)" <pathoschild@gmail.com>

> Michael Snow <wikipedia@verizon.net> wrote:
>> If there's a need to give people notices, this could also be a good time
>> to prompt some of the people who took an interest during the last
>> election in identifying eligible voters and delivering messages to them.
>
> Please don't send out emails. The elections committee will probably
> send out notification by email to all eligible voters (this is under
> discussion right now). The emails will be translated on
> <http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Board_elections/2008/Translation> with
> other board elections pages.


Please allow me to add my plea to Jesse's to let the election committee
handle emails. Please know that it is a major topic of discussion for us
now and we're weighing the best way to handle it and the timing of it.
"Email fatigue" is a very real issue and extra emails sent out could reduce
the likelihood that people would read the official notice sent by email,
which may contain important voting information, etc.

As always, I think you'll find this committee willing to listen to your
views and very focused on community input. If you have ideas, we stand
ready to listen to them.

Philippe


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Austin Hair wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 28, 2008 at 5:42 PM, Gerard Meijssen wrote:
>
>> Hoi,
>> I am likely not to qualify for a vote. I will have more then 1 edit in fifty
>> WMF projects though. I might qualify in Meta.. but I do not expect that. Can
>> I add my contributions on the mailing list as well ?
>>
> I propose that posts to Foundation-l count as negative edits.
> Negative five edits, even. ;)
>
> (You've got to admit, it might keep list traffic to a readable minimum.)
>
>
I doubt it. It would require an extraordinary amount of self-discipline
in order to gain the right to vote once at the end of a year. Some
people just put too high a value to their own word. :-)

Ec

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Gerard Meijssen <gerard.meijssen@gmail.com> wrote:
> I am likely not to qualify for a vote. I will have more then 1 edit in fifty
> WMF projects though. I might qualify in Meta.. but I do not expect that.

You have 213 edits on Meta in April with a full month left to go, so
you easily met the requirement.

--
Yours cordially,
Jesse Plamondon-Willard (Pathoschild)

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