Mailing List Archive

No, Windows cannot start another operating system within itself unless
it is running as a vm, which windows treats as an executable, do a
little bit of research on it at www.vmware.com

Authenticlick, Inc.
5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
Los Angeles, California 90036
Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net

Jacob Alifrangis
Director of Operations


-----Original Message-----
From: syslinux-bounces@zytor.com [mailto:syslinux-bounces@zytor.com] On
Behalf Of Constantine Gavrilov
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:02 AM
To: syslinux@zytor.com
Subject: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell

Hello:

Can syslinux be used to bootstrap Linux from a running Windows (or
Windows shell) similar to the way loadlin does it? I mean, run a binary
and give it Linux kernel and ramdisk as files on FAT or NTFS.

Adding an entry to boot.ini that references files on FAT/NTFS is also
fine. Touching MBR of disk or partition is not allowed.

THX.

--
----------------------------------------
Constantine Gavrilov
Distinguished Engineer
Qlusters Software Ltd
Hayovel Building 27th floor
125 Menachem Begin Way
Tel-Aviv, 67012
Phone: +972-3-6236666
Fax: +972-3-6236667
----------------------------------------

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I meant rebooting Windows to another OS (linux) with a help of a
DOS/Windows program.

Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
> No, Windows cannot start another operating system within itself unless
> it is running as a vm, which windows treats as an executable, do a
> little bit of research on it at www.vmware.com
>
> Authenticlick, Inc.
> 5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
> Los Angeles, California 90036
> Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
> email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net
>
> Jacob Alifrangis
> Director of Operations
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: syslinux-bounces@zytor.com [mailto:syslinux-bounces@zytor.com] On
> Behalf Of Constantine Gavrilov
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:02 AM
> To: syslinux@zytor.com
> Subject: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell
>
> Hello:
>
> Can syslinux be used to bootstrap Linux from a running Windows (or
> Windows shell) similar to the way loadlin does it? I mean, run a binary
> and give it Linux kernel and ramdisk as files on FAT or NTFS.
>
> Adding an entry to boot.ini that references files on FAT/NTFS is also
> fine. Touching MBR of disk or partition is not allowed.
>
> THX.
>
>


--
----------------------------------------
Constantine Gavrilov
Qlusters Software Ltd
----------------------------------------

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Well, you could use boot.ini, I think grub and syslinux can be booted
from a file based boot sector on a fat drive,

Just put linux on a usb stick or use knoppix.

That way you don't have to deal with complex issues like installing a
boot loader.


Authenticlick, Inc.
5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
Los Angeles, California 90036
Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net

Jacob Alifrangis
Director of Operations


-----Original Message-----
From: Constantine Gavrilov [mailto:constg@qlusters.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:28 AM
To: Jacob Alifrangis
Cc: For discussion of SYSLINUX and tftp-hpa
Subject: Re: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell

I meant rebooting Windows to another OS (linux) with a help of a
DOS/Windows program.

Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
> No, Windows cannot start another operating system within itself unless
> it is running as a vm, which windows treats as an executable, do a
> little bit of research on it at www.vmware.com
>
> Authenticlick, Inc.
> 5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
> Los Angeles, California 90036
> Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
> email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net
>
> Jacob Alifrangis
> Director of Operations
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: syslinux-bounces@zytor.com [mailto:syslinux-bounces@zytor.com]
On
> Behalf Of Constantine Gavrilov
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:02 AM
> To: syslinux@zytor.com
> Subject: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell
>
> Hello:
>
> Can syslinux be used to bootstrap Linux from a running Windows (or
> Windows shell) similar to the way loadlin does it? I mean, run a
binary
> and give it Linux kernel and ramdisk as files on FAT or NTFS.
>
> Adding an entry to boot.ini that references files on FAT/NTFS is also
> fine. Touching MBR of disk or partition is not allowed.
>
> THX.
>
>


--
----------------------------------------
Constantine Gavrilov
Qlusters Software Ltd
----------------------------------------

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Using USB disk is not an option, I must use the present HW only (disk).

Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
> Well, you could use boot.ini, I think grub and syslinux can be booted
> from a file based boot sector on a fat drive,
>
> Just put linux on a usb stick or use knoppix.
>
> That way you don't have to deal with complex issues like installing a
> boot loader.
>
>
> Authenticlick, Inc.
> 5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
> Los Angeles, California 90036
> Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
> email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net
>
> Jacob Alifrangis
> Director of Operations
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constantine Gavrilov [mailto:constg@qlusters.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:28 AM
> To: Jacob Alifrangis
> Cc: For discussion of SYSLINUX and tftp-hpa
> Subject: Re: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell
>
> I meant rebooting Windows to another OS (linux) with a help of a
> DOS/Windows program.
>
> Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
>
>> No, Windows cannot start another operating system within itself unless
>> it is running as a vm, which windows treats as an executable, do a
>> little bit of research on it at www.vmware.com
>>
>> Authenticlick, Inc.
>> 5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
>> Los Angeles, California 90036
>> Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
>> email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net
>>
>> Jacob Alifrangis
>> Director of Operations
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: syslinux-bounces@zytor.com [mailto:syslinux-bounces@zytor.com]
>>
> On
>
>> Behalf Of Constantine Gavrilov
>> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:02 AM
>> To: syslinux@zytor.com
>> Subject: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>> Can syslinux be used to bootstrap Linux from a running Windows (or
>> Windows shell) similar to the way loadlin does it? I mean, run a
>>
> binary
>
>> and give it Linux kernel and ramdisk as files on FAT or NTFS.
>>
>> Adding an entry to boot.ini that references files on FAT/NTFS is also
>> fine. Touching MBR of disk or partition is not allowed.
>>
>> THX.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>


--
----------------------------------------
Constantine Gavrilov
Kernel Developer
Qlusters Software Ltd
1 Azrieli Center, Tel-Aviv
Phone: +972-3-6081977
Fax: +972-3-6081841
----------------------------------------

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You're Shit out of luck mate.

Authenticlick, Inc.
5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
Los Angeles, California 90036
Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net

Jacob Alifrangis
Director of Operations


-----Original Message-----
From: Constantine Gavrilov [mailto:constg@qlusters.com]
Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 1:00 PM
To: Jacob Alifrangis
Cc: For discussion of SYSLINUX and tftp-hpa
Subject: Re: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell

Using USB disk is not an option, I must use the present HW only (disk).

Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
> Well, you could use boot.ini, I think grub and syslinux can be booted
> from a file based boot sector on a fat drive,
>
> Just put linux on a usb stick or use knoppix.
>
> That way you don't have to deal with complex issues like installing a
> boot loader.
>
>
> Authenticlick, Inc.
> 5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
> Los Angeles, California 90036
> Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
> email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net
>
> Jacob Alifrangis
> Director of Operations
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constantine Gavrilov [mailto:constg@qlusters.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:28 AM
> To: Jacob Alifrangis
> Cc: For discussion of SYSLINUX and tftp-hpa
> Subject: Re: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell
>
> I meant rebooting Windows to another OS (linux) with a help of a
> DOS/Windows program.
>
> Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
>
>> No, Windows cannot start another operating system within itself
unless
>> it is running as a vm, which windows treats as an executable, do a
>> little bit of research on it at www.vmware.com
>>
>> Authenticlick, Inc.
>> 5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
>> Los Angeles, California 90036
>> Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
>> email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net
>>
>> Jacob Alifrangis
>> Director of Operations
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: syslinux-bounces@zytor.com [mailto:syslinux-bounces@zytor.com]
>>
> On
>
>> Behalf Of Constantine Gavrilov
>> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:02 AM
>> To: syslinux@zytor.com
>> Subject: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell
>>
>> Hello:
>>
>> Can syslinux be used to bootstrap Linux from a running Windows (or
>> Windows shell) similar to the way loadlin does it? I mean, run a
>>
> binary
>
>> and give it Linux kernel and ramdisk as files on FAT or NTFS.
>>
>> Adding an entry to boot.ini that references files on FAT/NTFS is also

>> fine. Touching MBR of disk or partition is not allowed.
>>
>> THX.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>


--
----------------------------------------
Constantine Gavrilov
Kernel Developer
Qlusters Software Ltd
1 Azrieli Center, Tel-Aviv
Phone: +972-3-6081977
Fax: +972-3-6081841
----------------------------------------

_______________________________________________
SYSLINUX mailing list
Submissions to SYSLINUX@zytor.com
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On Mon, Dec 10, 2007 at 01:35:05PM -0800, Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
> You're Shit out of luck mate.

Maybe not... boot.ini -> grub -> kernel+initrd on fat/ext2 partition ->
root on ntfs (or anywhere). Ntldr can load the bootloader (from
boot.ini) so the problem is in how the bootloader finds kernel and
initrd. I don't remember whether grub supports NTFS. If it does seperate
partition is not needed.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constantine Gavrilov [mailto:constg@qlusters.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 1:00 PM
> To: Jacob Alifrangis
> Cc: For discussion of SYSLINUX and tftp-hpa
> Subject: Re: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell
>
> Using USB disk is not an option, I must use the present HW only (disk).
>
> Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
> > Well, you could use boot.ini, I think grub and syslinux can be booted
> > from a file based boot sector on a fat drive,
> >
> > Just put linux on a usb stick or use knoppix.
> >
> > That way you don't have to deal with complex issues like installing a
> > boot loader.

--
Anssi Kolehmainen
anssi.kolehmainen@iki.fi
040-5085390

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Op 10-12-2007 om 21:28 schreef Constantine Gavrilov:
> I meant rebooting Windows to another OS (linux) with a help of a
> DOS/Windows program.

Sounds like a request for LOADLIN.EXE

See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Loadlin for more information.


> Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
> > No, Windows cannot start another operating system within itself unless
> > it is running as a vm, which windows treats as an executable, do a
> > little bit of research on it at www.vmware.com

Topquoters are allways funny.
It must be their habit of providing an answer _before_ the question.

Stating "Windows cannot start another operating system" is lacking
imagination. A program that is in control can everything. An Operating
System could prevent some action, but there is priviledge code in,
example given, device drivers, that isn't (or less) restricted.
It takes more then doing "a little bit of research".


Cheers
Geert Stappers

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I just had an idea. I think I can "tag" linux kernel and ramdisk to a
single file and path that as a boot file to boot.ini.

It should work, since kernel is x86boot sector file type. This is
similar to an older solution -- how to put linux kernel and ramdisk on a
floppy without a file system or a boot loader. I can use existing
tagging solution (etherboot's mknbi, Intel PXE) or cook my own.


Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
> You're Shit out of luck mate.
>
> Authenticlick, Inc.
> 5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
> Los Angeles, California 90036
> Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
> email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net
>
> Jacob Alifrangis
> Director of Operations
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Constantine Gavrilov [mailto:constg@qlusters.com]
> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 1:00 PM
> To: Jacob Alifrangis
> Cc: For discussion of SYSLINUX and tftp-hpa
> Subject: Re: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell
>
> Using USB disk is not an option, I must use the present HW only (disk).
>
> Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
>
>> Well, you could use boot.ini, I think grub and syslinux can be booted
>> from a file based boot sector on a fat drive,
>>
>> Just put linux on a usb stick or use knoppix.
>>
>> That way you don't have to deal with complex issues like installing a
>> boot loader.
>>
>>
>> Authenticlick, Inc.
>> 5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
>> Los Angeles, California 90036
>> Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
>> email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net
>>
>> Jacob Alifrangis
>> Director of Operations
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Constantine Gavrilov [mailto:constg@qlusters.com]
>> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 11:28 AM
>> To: Jacob Alifrangis
>> Cc: For discussion of SYSLINUX and tftp-hpa
>> Subject: Re: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell
>>
>> I meant rebooting Windows to another OS (linux) with a help of a
>> DOS/Windows program.
>>
>> Jacob Alifrangis wrote:
>>
>>
>>> No, Windows cannot start another operating system within itself
>>>
> unless
>
>>> it is running as a vm, which windows treats as an executable, do a
>>> little bit of research on it at www.vmware.com
>>>
>>> Authenticlick, Inc.
>>> 5757 Wilshire Boulevard | Penthouse One
>>> Los Angeles, California 90036
>>> Tel: 323.330.0404 x302 | Fax: 323.330.0755
>>> email: jalifrangis@authenticlick.net
>>>
>>> Jacob Alifrangis
>>> Director of Operations
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: syslinux-bounces@zytor.com [mailto:syslinux-bounces@zytor.com]
>>>
>>>
>> On
>>
>>
>>> Behalf Of Constantine Gavrilov
>>> Sent: Monday, December 10, 2007 4:02 AM
>>> To: syslinux@zytor.com
>>> Subject: [syslinux] bootstapping linux from windows/windows shell
>>>
>>> Hello:
>>>
>>> Can syslinux be used to bootstrap Linux from a running Windows (or
>>> Windows shell) similar to the way loadlin does it? I mean, run a
>>>
>>>
>> binary
>>
>>
>>> and give it Linux kernel and ramdisk as files on FAT or NTFS.
>>>
>>> Adding an entry to boot.ini that references files on FAT/NTFS is also
>>>
>
>
>>> fine. Touching MBR of disk or partition is not allowed.
>>>
>>> THX.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>


--
----------------------------------------
Constantine Gavrilov
Distinguished Engineer
Qlusters Software Ltd
Hayovel Building 27th floor
125 Menachem Begin Way
Tel-Aviv, 67012
Phone: +972-3-6236666
Fax: +972-3-6236667
----------------------------------------

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Constantine Gavrilov wrote:
> I just had an idea. I think I can "tag" linux kernel and ramdisk to a
> single file and path that as a boot file to boot.ini.
>
> It should work, since kernel is x86boot sector file type. This is
> similar to an older solution -- how to put linux kernel and ramdisk on a
> floppy without a file system or a boot loader. I can use existing
> tagging solution (etherboot's mknbi, Intel PXE) or cook my own.

mknbi/mkelf is broken at the moment.

-hpa

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Geert Stappers wrote:
>
> Topquoters are allways funny.
> It must be their habit of providing an answer _before_ the question.
>
> Stating "Windows cannot start another operating system" is lacking
> imagination. A program that is in control can everything. An Operating
> System could prevent some action, but there is priviledge code in,
> example given, device drivers, that isn't (or less) restricted.
> It takes more then doing "a little bit of research".
>

The real b*tch is convincing said operating system to put the machine
back in a state where another OS can take over.

When it comes to LOADLIN, it really needs a new maintainer. I recently
looked at it after rewriting the x86 setup code in the Linux kernel, and
it is shock-full of hardcoded limits which are about to break or already
have been broken.

-hpa

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