Mailing List Archive

How to explain this to everyone?

Stacey, not being a "geek" myself, when I first ran into
SPF, it kind of freaked me out as well.

Having said this, I have spent a fair amount of time
"lurking" and sometimes "contributing," when I actually
felt there was something of value to be added.

What is needed is a PDF pamphlet to explain SPF in non
technical terms so that:

* folks are not panicked;

* understand the value of what is being done; and,

* can explain to their web hosts, service providers and
email list providers "the doing."

In this way people can either SPF themselves using the
wizard, or where appropriate pass on the instruction,
"please SPF me," along with the required information to
their system administrators who can get it done.

I have been thinking of writing such a pamphlet and was
wondering if people would be willing to review my work to
make sure I have it right. And Stacey, if you would like to
act as the editor/project manager I would be honored.

Comments, suggestions, thoughts?

John Glube
Toronto, Canada

The FTC Calls For Sender Authentication
http://www.learnsteps4profit.com/dne.html


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On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 08:59:38AM -0500,
Stacy M. Wilhelm <samsaw@cox.net> wrote
a message of 35 lines which said:

> How are you all trying to get the word out about this
> that I missed?

A typical SPF-related bounce includes a message like:

Please see
http://spf.pobox.com/why.html?sender=rdpfoaov%40seznam.cz&ip=217.70.177.36&receiver=eve

eve: transitioning domain of rdpfoaov@seznam.cz does not designate
217.70.177.36 as permitted sender

And the Web page mentioned above (try it) seems very clear to me, at
least for english speakers (see the long thread about
internationalizing error messages).

> How do I tell them about this without freaking them completely out?

Tell them that:

1) The world is huge,

2) The world is sometimes hostile,

3) In a typical rich western country today, there are *many* things
that you cannot control and that are better left to specialists.

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On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 08:59:38AM -0500, Stacy M. Wilhelm wrote:
> You all know about this spf stuff, and apparently SOME mass email programs
> (like ezinedirector know--at least they think they know), but how in the
> world would a general person who's doing a newsletter know? I mean I sent
> out email for three years to my subscribers, and until the other day I had
> never HEARD of this. How are you all trying to get the word out about this
> that I missed? (I read everything about non-technical newsletter methods
> that I can.)
>
> I'm quite sure I'm not alone in not knowing about this as many of my
> writing friends have newsletters, and I seem to be one of the more plugged
> in ones. How do I tell them about this without freaking them completely
> out? Also, how could a customer tell if their mail service was following
> these rules (and how do you go about checking out a new service to see if
> they are truly in compliance?), and what other rules are there out there
> like this that people like me should be aware of? I really try to keep my
> friends up to speed on this type of information, but with this, I have no
> idea where to begin.

Well, the idea is that you don't have to know, your newsletter
distributor should know these things. To be honest, if you're not into
the way email works you probably can not follow all of this, because you
lack a basic understanding of the underlying protocol that runs email.
For you, email is a tool to get your word out. Compare this with use of
other tools. If you are in the lucky circumstances to have a lawn, and
use an electric lawnmower, you don't have to know how an electro-motor
works or what electrons are.

Basically, users shouldn't be bothered with techinical details. If
there's something wrong with your car (if you own one, that is, which
i hope you don't :) do you expect to understand exactly what's wrong?
For most people this will be out of their area of expertise. They can be
explained globally what's wrong, but not to the detail needed to truly
grasp what's going on.

The bottom line is: your distributor should know about it, especially if
he's publishing spf records!

And if you do want to know more about this, there's plenty of tutorials
out there on the internet, and I guess in your library and/or bookstore
as well.

Koen

--
K.F.J. Martens, Sonologic, http://www.sonologic.nl/
Networking, embedded systems, unix expertise, artificial intelligence.
Public PGP key: http://www.metro.cx/pubkey-gmc.asc
Wondering about the funny attachment your mail program
can't read? Visit http://www.openpgp.org/

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> I have been thinking of writing such a pamphlet and was
> wondering if people would be willing to review my work to
> make sure I have it right. And Stacey, if you would like to
> act as the editor/project manager I would be honored.

John,

Sounds like a great idea. I'd be happy to participate as a reviewer.

Marc Alaia

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Hi,

If you post the pamphlet to this list, I think there will be enough
people willing to review it and comment on it.

However, it would be nice to have this on the spf.pobox.com site, or
perhaps expand one of the documents already there? Have you looked at
the faq there, or the other documents eg 'spf for managers' etc??

Maybe the faq could be extended by questions like 'my mail is being
rejected by spf, what to do?'

Koen

On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:28:58AM -0400, John Glube wrote:
> How to explain this to everyone?
>
> Stacey, not being a "geek" myself, when I first ran into
> SPF, it kind of freaked me out as well.
>
> Having said this, I have spent a fair amount of time
> "lurking" and sometimes "contributing," when I actually
> felt there was something of value to be added.
>
> What is needed is a PDF pamphlet to explain SPF in non
> technical terms so that:
>
> * folks are not panicked;
>
> * understand the value of what is being done; and,
>
> * can explain to their web hosts, service providers and
> email list providers "the doing."
>
> In this way people can either SPF themselves using the
> wizard, or where appropriate pass on the instruction,
> "please SPF me," along with the required information to
> their system administrators who can get it done.
>
> I have been thinking of writing such a pamphlet and was
> wondering if people would be willing to review my work to
> make sure I have it right. And Stacey, if you would like to
> act as the editor/project manager I would be honored.
>
> Comments, suggestions, thoughts?
>
> John Glube
> Toronto, Canada
>
> The FTC Calls For Sender Authentication
> http://www.learnsteps4profit.com/dne.html
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.725 / Virus Database: 480 - Release Date: 19/07/2004
>
>
> -------
> Archives at http://archives.listbox.com/spf-help/current/
> Donate! http://spf.pobox.com/donations.html
> To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your subscription,
> please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=spf-help@v2.listbox.com

--
K.F.J. Martens, Sonologic, http://www.sonologic.nl/
Networking, embedded systems, unix expertise, artificial intelligence.
Public PGP key: http://www.metro.cx/pubkey-gmc.asc
Wondering about the funny attachment your mail program
can't read? Visit http://www.openpgp.org/

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Koen,

I have looked at the FAQ and yes it is useful. However,
as you point out there are some gaps.

Enough said, let me stop talking and get to work. Thanks
for the encouragement and suggestions.

John

John Glube
Toronto, Canada

The FTC Calls For Sender Authentication
http://www.learnsteps4profit.com/dne.html

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-spf-help@v2.listbox.com
[mailto:owner-spf-help@v2.listbox.com] On Behalf Of Koen Martens
Sent: July 29, 2004 4:00 PM
To: spf-help@v2.listbox.com
Subject: Re: [spf-help] Non-technical question

Hi,

If you post the pamphlet to this list, I think there will be
enough people willing to review it and comment on it.

However, it would be nice to have this on the spf.pobox.com site,
or perhaps expand one of the documents already there? Have you
looked at the faq there, or the other documents eg 'spf for
managers' etc??

Maybe the faq could be extended by questions like 'my mail is
being rejected by spf, what to do?'

Koen

On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:28:58AM -0400, John Glube wrote:
> How to explain this to everyone?
>
> Stacey, not being a "geek" myself, when I first ran into
> SPF, it kind of freaked me out as well.
>
> Having said this, I have spent a fair amount of time
> "lurking" and sometimes "contributing," when I actually
> felt there was something of value to be added.
>
> What is needed is a PDF pamphlet to explain SPF in non
> technical terms so that:
>
> * folks are not panicked;
>
> * understand the value of what is being done; and,
>
> * can explain to their web hosts, service providers and
> email list providers "the doing."
>
> In this way people can either SPF themselves using the
> wizard, or where appropriate pass on the instruction,
> "please SPF me," along with the required information to
> their system administrators who can get it done.
>
> I have been thinking of writing such a pamphlet and was
> wondering if people would be willing to review my work to
> make sure I have it right. And Stacey, if you would like to
> act as the editor/project manager I would be honored.
>
> Comments, suggestions, thoughts?
>
> John Glube
> Toronto, Canada
>
> The FTC Calls For Sender Authentication
> http://www.learnsteps4profit.com/dne.html
>

<snip>

--
K.F.J. Martens, Sonologic, http://www.sonologic.nl/
Networking, embedded systems, unix expertise, artificial
intelligence.
Public PGP key: http://www.metro.cx/pubkey-gmc.asc
Wondering about the funny attachment your mail program
can't read? Visit http://www.openpgp.org/

<snip>


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.725 / Virus Database: 480 - Release Date: 19/07/2004


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Marc Alaia wrote,

> I have been thinking of writing such a pamphlet and was
> wondering if people would be willing to review my work to
> make sure I have it right. And Stacey, if you would like to
> act as the editor/project manager I would be honored.

"John,

Sounds like a great idea. I'd be happy to participate as a
reviewer.

Marc Alaia"

Marc,

I appreciate the encouragement and am going to take you up
on the offer. Thanks:-)

John

John Glube
Toronto, Canada

The FTC Calls For Sender Authentication
http://www.learnsteps4profit.com/dne.html
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Incoming mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.725 / Virus Database: 480 - Release Date: 19/07/2004


---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
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Version: 6.0.725 / Virus Database: 480 - Release Date: 19/07/2004


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>John,

I would love to work with you on this! What I'm realizing is that when I
was trying to do my ezine manually, I'm sure I wasn't even close to
compliant with any of this. Now that I'm trying to go through a provider,
how in the world do you even find one who's trying to do this right if you
don't even know there is an issue with this.

Thanks to whomever mentioned the AOL whitelist thing. I'm going to try
that because in going through my list, I realize I don't have any aol
members any more. UGH! One problem after another. But I'm trying and I'm
learning so I hope that counts for something!

Let me know when you get ready for me to look at the pamphlet.

Peace,

Stacy M. Wilhelm
writing as Staci Stallings

>On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:28:58AM -0400, John Glube wrote:
> > How to explain this to everyone?
> >
> > Stacey, not being a "geek" myself, when I first ran into
> > SPF, it kind of freaked me out as well.
> >
> > Having said this, I have spent a fair amount of time
> > "lurking" and sometimes "contributing," when I actually
> > felt there was something of value to be added.
> >
> > What is needed is a PDF pamphlet to explain SPF in non
> > technical terms so that:
> >
> > * folks are not panicked;
> >
> > * understand the value of what is being done; and,
> >
> > * can explain to their web hosts, service providers and
> > email list providers "the doing."
> >
> > In this way people can either SPF themselves using the
> > wizard, or where appropriate pass on the instruction,
> > "please SPF me," along with the required information to
> > their system administrators who can get it done.
> >
> > I have been thinking of writing such a pamphlet and was
> > wondering if people would be willing to review my work to
> > make sure I have it right. And Stacey, if you would like to
> > act as the editor/project manager I would be honored.
> >
> > Comments, suggestions, thoughts?
> >
> > John Glube
> > Toronto, Canada
> >
> > The FTC Calls For Sender Authentication
> > http://www.learnsteps4profit.com/dne.html
> >
>
><snip>
>
>--
>K.F.J. Martens, Sonologic, http://www.sonologic.nl/
>Networking, embedded systems, unix expertise, artificial
>intelligence.
>Public PGP key: http://www.metro.cx/pubkey-gmc.asc
>Wondering about the funny attachment your mail program
>can't read? Visit http://www.openpgp.org/
>
><snip>
>
>
>---
>Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
>Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
>Version: 6.0.725 / Virus Database: 480 - Release Date: 19/07/2004
>
>
>-------
>Archives at http://archives.listbox.com/spf-help/current/
>Donate! http://spf.pobox.com/donations.html
>To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your
>subscription,
>please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=spf-help@v2.listbox.com


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Stacy,

To some degree, you will likely realize that you've found the right provider soon after you've begun dealing with them. For example, your provider, ezine, was full of excuses and 'not my responsibility'. I use "DNS Made Easy" for my DNS service and I've always felt good about them, but never knew exactly why. Maybe it was because they seem to take pride in their service delivery, such as by saying that they have 100% uptime for their DNS service. And yes, they have a written policy that if a customer experiences an outage, they will be compensated, but I've heard that before. Well, yesterday afternoon I received an email stating that they had given me a free 15 days of email service because they had a problem on one night with a couple of their email servers. I didn't even know that the problem had existed! And the problem only lasted for a few hours. On top of it, they told me that they ensured that no emails, either old or new, were lost.

What I'm trying to get at is that a good provider will ensure that not only are the behind-the-scenes things taken care of, but that they are done properly. You shouldn't HAVE to know what you don't know. If you want to, though, that's another story....

Marc
>
> From: "Stacy M. Wilhelm" <samsaw@cox.net>
> Date: 2004/07/29 Thu PM 05:04:15 EDT
> To: spf-help@v2.listbox.com
> Subject: RE: [spf-help] Non-technical question
>
>
> >John,
>
> I would love to work with you on this! What I'm realizing is that when I
> was trying to do my ezine manually, I'm sure I wasn't even close to
> compliant with any of this. Now that I'm trying to go through a provider,
> how in the world do you even find one who's trying to do this right if you
> don't even know there is an issue with this.
>
> Thanks to whomever mentioned the AOL whitelist thing. I'm going to try
> that because in going through my list, I realize I don't have any aol
> members any more. UGH! One problem after another. But I'm trying and I'm
> learning so I hope that counts for something!
>
> Let me know when you get ready for me to look at the pamphlet.
>
> Peace,
>
> Stacy M. Wilhelm
> writing as Staci Stallings
>
> >On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 10:28:58AM -0400, John Glube wrote:
> > > How to explain this to everyone?
> > >
> > > Stacey, not being a "geek" myself, when I first ran into
> > > SPF, it kind of freaked me out as well.
> > >
> > > Having said this, I have spent a fair amount of time
> > > "lurking" and sometimes "contributing," when I actually
> > > felt there was something of value to be added.
> > >
> > > What is needed is a PDF pamphlet to explain SPF in non
> > > technical terms so that:
> > >
> > > * folks are not panicked;
> > >
> > > * understand the value of what is being done; and,
> > >
> > > * can explain to their web hosts, service providers and
> > > email list providers "the doing."
> > >
> > > In this way people can either SPF themselves using the
> > > wizard, or where appropriate pass on the instruction,
> > > "please SPF me," along with the required information to
> > > their system administrators who can get it done.
> > >
> > > I have been thinking of writing such a pamphlet and was
> > > wondering if people would be willing to review my work to
> > > make sure I have it right. And Stacey, if you would like to
> > > act as the editor/project manager I would be honored.
> > >
> > > Comments, suggestions, thoughts?
> > >
> > > John Glube
> > > Toronto, Canada
> > >
> > > The FTC Calls For Sender Authentication
> > > http://www.learnsteps4profit.com/dne.html
> > >
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >--
> >K.F.J. Martens, Sonologic, http://www.sonologic.nl/
> >Networking, embedded systems, unix expertise, artificial
> >intelligence.
> >Public PGP key: http://www.metro.cx/pubkey-gmc.asc
> >Wondering about the funny attachment your mail program
> >can't read? Visit http://www.openpgp.org/
> >
> ><snip>
> >
> >
> >---
> >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> >Version: 6.0.725 / Virus Database: 480 - Release Date: 19/07/2004
> >
> >
> >-------
> >Archives at http://archives.listbox.com/spf-help/current/
> >Donate! http://spf.pobox.com/donations.html
> >To unsubscribe, change your address, or temporarily deactivate your
> >subscription,
> >please go to http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=spf-help@v2.listbox.com
>
>
> -------
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>

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Stacey wrote,

">John,

I would love to work with you on this!

<snip>

Let me know when you get ready for me to look at the
pamphlet.

Peace,

Stacy M. Wilhelm
writing as Staci Stallings"

Done. I will let you know when it is ready.

John

P.S. In finding a "good" service provider, I whole
heartedly concur with the comments by Marc.

The behind the scenes stuff is more important then the show
you receive coming through the front door.

Quite honestly, in the SOHO market, if you are looking at
using an email service provider to do your mailings for
you, after doing a fair amount of research, and using a
number of different providers, here is what I have
concluded:

* There are only a handful of people you can really trust
with your mailing list. Remember, your mailing list is one
of the most important assets of your business.

* Glitches and problems will happen. The key is having a
service provider willing to provide the needed quality of
service.

In today's environment, one of the keys is having a good
working relationship with the ISPs, being accredited,
following best practices and so forth.

(This is why I recommend AWeber. As to Bighip it is a new
service and only time will tell.)

Want to do your own mailings? In today's environment, SPF
your domain, consider working with an accreditation
service, take the time needed to get on the big mail box
providers white lists, etc., etc.

This may seem like a pain, but ...

Also, if you have not done so already, get in touch with
Marc and find out what service he is recommending:-)
Cheers, John.

John Glube
Toronto, Canada

The FTC Calls For Sender Authentication
http://www.learnsteps4profit.com/dne.html

---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.725 / Virus Database: 480 - Release Date: 19/07/2004


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On Thu, Jul 29, 2004 at 04:52:49PM -0400, John Glube wrote:
> I have looked at the FAQ and yes it is useful. However,
> as you point out there are some gaps.
>
> Enough said, let me stop talking and get to work. Thanks
> for the encouragement and suggestions.

The faq is a work in progress. As much as your pamphlet is welcomed, it
would also be nice if instead of creating a new document, you could help
with extending the FAQ.

Of course, if you're ok with it i could also take stuff from your
pamphlet when it's done and incorporate it into the faq.

koen

--
K.F.J. Martens, Sonologic, http://www.sonologic.nl/
Networking, embedded systems, unix expertise, artificial intelligence.
Public PGP key: http://www.metro.cx/pubkey-gmc.asc
Wondering about the funny attachment your mail program
can't read? Visit http://www.openpgp.org/

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