Mailing List Archive

Andre Kirchner wrote:

> 1. Is there a SPF server where a domain must register its mail
> server and email addresses?

No. There's an FAQ on <http://www.openspf.org> and a dedicated
SPF Help list (just replace "discuss" by "help" in the address).

You put sender policies in DNS records (TXT and/or the new SPF
record type) at your domain provider - where you have all your
other DNS records, MX, A, etc.

> 2. An email server that received a message from aaa@yyy.com,
> and uses sender ID framework (SIDF) to authenticate messages.

While SenderID (PRA) uses the same syntax as SPF for policy
records, the semantics is rather different, SenderID (PRA) is
not directly related to SMTP, it is based on email headers.

> Will it compare the hostname of the email server of domain
> yyy.com (which is mailserver.yyy.com) with the hostname
> name registered in a SPF server?

I fear none of the SPF lists can answer what SenderID (PRA)
checking servers generally do. As far as they follow the
PRA specification they figure out a PRA in the email header
(an address in the From / Sender / Resent header fields as
specified in RFC 4407), take the RHS (domain) of this PRA,
fetch a SenderID PRA policy DNS record (using the strategy
defined in RFC 4408 for SPF), evaluate it (again doing what
SPF would do), and get a result PASS / FAIL / NEUTRAL / ...

> 3. I have a hotmail account, and I know Hotmail uses SIDF
> to authenticate messages.

Better ask them what they do, it might be unrelated to both
SenderID (PRA) or SPF. If you dig in the SPF HELP archive
you find that the operations of hotmail were a big mystery.

> I receive a message from viff@viff.org, but viff.org does
> not have a SPF record

FWIW they also have no SenderID (PRA) policy.

> How did Hotmail authenticated it?

Why do you think they did, did the viff.org mail arrive with
a Received-SPF header field in your hotmail inbox ?

> 4. I used the following commands to send me a message, but
> didn't receive it. Why did I received this message from
> viff@viff.org, but not the following one?

testing.com also has no SPF or FWIW SenderID (PRA) policy.
Did hotmail accept your test mail ? You only showed one
direction of the telnet session, not the hotmail replies.

Frank

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Hi Frank,

3. I thought it was somehow authenticated because I received this message, while message I sent in 4 never arrived. Maybe Hotmail is not authenticating it, but it must somehow validate it.

4. Hotmail seems to have received this message (Please see below), but it never showed up in my inbox. I'm actually not sending this message from testing.com domain, and though that maybe Hotmail could be comparing the sender's ip address with the ip address returned by "nslookup testing.com" to determine it's a spam.

Andre

************************************************
andre@kirchner:~$ telnet mx4.hotmail.com 25
Trying 65.54.244.232...
Connected to mx4.hotmail.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
220 bay0-mc7-f2.bay0.hotmail.com Sending unsolicited commercial or bulk e-mail to Microsoft's computer network is prohibited. Other restrictions are found at http://privacy.msn.com/Anti-spam/. Violations will result in use of equipment located in California and other states. Sat, 2 Feb 2008 12:16:29 -0800

EHLO testing.com
250-bay0-mc7-f2.bay0.hotmail.com (3.5.0.22) Hello [76.77.66.100]
250-SIZE 29696000
250-PIPELINING
250-8bitmime
250-BINARYMIME
250-CHUNKING
250-AUTH LOGIN
250-AUTH=LOGIN
250 OK

MAIL FROM: andre@testing.com
250 andre@testing.com....Sender OK

RCPT TO: kirchnerandre@hotmail.com
250 kirchnerandre@hotmail.com

DATA
354 Start mail input; end with <CRLF>.<CRLF>
From: andre <testing.com>
To: Andre Kirchner <kirchnerandre@hotmail.com>
Subject: SMTP test

SMTP test body

.
250 <BAY0-MC7-F2kzYDGj9C000b5882@bay0-mc7-f2.bay0.hotmail.com> Queued mail for delivery

QUIT
221 bay0-mc7-f2.bay0.hotmail.com Service closing transmission channel
Connection closed by foreign host.

************************************************



----- Original Message ----
From: Frank Ellermann <nobody@xyzzy.claranet.de>
To: spf-discuss@v2.listbox.com
Sent: Saturday, February 2, 2008 11:51:47 AM
Subject: [spf-discuss] Re: Beginners questions about SPF


Andre
Kirchner
wrote:

>
1.
Is
there
a
SPF
server
where
a
domain
must
register
its
mail
>
server
and
email
addresses?

No.
There's
an
FAQ
on
<http://www.openspf.org>
and
a
dedicated
SPF
Help
list
(just
replace
"discuss"
by
"help"
in
the
address).

You
put
sender
policies
in
DNS
records
(TXT
and/or
the
new
SPF
record
type)
at
your
domain
provider
-
where
you
have
all
your
other
DNS
records,
MX,
A,
etc.

>
2.
An
email
server
that
received
a
message
from
aaa@yyy.com,
>
and
uses
sender
ID
framework
(SIDF)
to
authenticate
messages.

While
SenderID
(PRA)
uses
the
same
syntax
as
SPF
for
policy
records,
the
semantics
is
rather
different,
SenderID
(PRA)
is
not
directly
related
to
SMTP,
it
is
based
on
email
headers.

>
Will
it
compare
the
hostname
of
the
email
server
of
domain
>
yyy.com
(which
is
mailserver.yyy.com)
with
the
hostname
>
name
registered
in
a
SPF
server?

I
fear
none
of
the
SPF
lists
can
answer
what
SenderID
(PRA)
checking
servers
generally
do.
As
far
as
they
follow
the
PRA
specification
they
figure
out
a
PRA
in
the
email
header
(an
address
in
the
From
/
Sender
/
Resent
header
fields
as
specified
in
RFC
4407),
take
the
RHS
(domain)
of
this
PRA,
fetch
a
SenderID
PRA
policy
DNS
record
(using
the
strategy
defined
in
RFC
4408
for
SPF),
evaluate
it
(again
doing
what
SPF
would
do),
and
get
a
result
PASS
/
FAIL
/
NEUTRAL
/
...

>
3.
I
have
a
hotmail
account,
and
I
know
Hotmail
uses
SIDF
>
to
authenticate
messages.

Better
ask
them
what
they
do,
it
might
be
unrelated
to
both
SenderID
(PRA)
or
SPF.
If
you
dig
in
the
SPF
HELP
archive
you
find
that
the
operations
of
hotmail
were
a
big
mystery.

>
I
receive
a
message
from
viff@viff.org,
but
viff.org
does
>
not
have
a
SPF
record

FWIW
they
also
have
no
SenderID
(PRA)
policy.

>
How
did
Hotmail
authenticated
it?

Why
do
you
think
they
did,
did
the
viff.org
mail
arrive
with
a
Received-SPF
header
field
in
your
hotmail
inbox
?

>
4.
I
used
the
following
commands
to
send
me
a
message,
but
>
didn't
receive
it.
Why
did
I
received
this
message
from
>
viff@viff.org,
but
not
the
following
one?

testing.com
also
has
no
SPF
or
FWIW
SenderID
(PRA)
policy.
Did
hotmail
accept
your
test
mail
?
You
only
showed
one
direction
of
the
telnet
session,
not
the
hotmail
replies.


Frank

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Andre Kirchner wrote:
> 4. Hotmail seems to have received this message (Please see below), but
> it never showed up in my inbox. I'm actually not sending this message
> from testing.com domain, and though that maybe Hotmail could be
> comparing the sender's ip address with the ip address returned by
> "nslookup testing.com" to determine it's a spam.

Hotmail is not RFC-compliant, as it seems to be a la mode nowadays :-/

If you are in touch with MetroBridge, check https://postmaster.live.com/
and subscribe to their postmaster services, possibly setting up a script
that automatically retrieves any SNDS data they may gather; then try
sending test messages for some days and see if they eventually show up.

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