Mailing List Archive

> > Byung-Hee HWANG skrev den 2024-01-08 12:27:
> >
> > > Gmail is my last INBOX. That's enough for me.
> >
> > +1, so you are ready to setup google mx ? :)
> >
>
> Hellow Benny,
>
> Actually i used Google MX for 10 years. Recently, i created dedicated
> MXs and am continuing to operate them. Plus, the dedicated MXs run on
> Google Cloud and RimuHosting.
>
> I terminated my Google Workspace commercial account. 2 years ago.
>

Hi Byung and Benny, are you having a nice MX party? :)

On Fri, 2024-01-19 at 08:34 +0000, Marc wrote:
> > > Byung-Hee HWANG skrev den 2024-01-08 12:27:
> > >
> > > > Gmail is my last INBOX. That's enough for me.
> > >
> > > +1, so you are ready to setup google mx ? :)
> > >
> >
> > Hellow Benny,
> >
> > Actually i used Google MX for 10 years. Recently, i created
> > dedicated
> > MXs and am continuing to operate them. Plus, the dedicated MXs run
> > on
> > Google Cloud and RimuHosting.
> >
> > I terminated my Google Workspace commercial account. 2 years ago.
> >
>
> Hi Byung and Benny, are you having a nice MX party? :)
>

Hellow Marc,

I rely on DNSWL for the reputable MX.


Sincerely, Byung-Hee

--
^????? _????_ ?????_^))//

Byung-Hee HWANG skrev den 2024-01-19 06:16:

> Actually i used Google MX for 10 years. Recently, i created dedicated
> MXs and am continuing to operate them. Plus, the dedicated MXs run on
> Google Cloud and RimuHosting.

it was to vierd for me to figure out how to get it working, and posible
in the long run also too expansive, one of the problems i spoted is no
dnssec, who will accept this in 2024 ?

i have considered also prothonmail and fastmail, just to name other, i
lost prothon with loosed the mails on the account, lost the private key,
so learned in the hard way

for me host own servers is best for me with gentoo, no precompiled
problems at all

> I terminated my Google Workspace commercial account. 2 years ago.

not needed anymore ?, or just too expansive ?, minimal one could have a
own mta, and then relay with sasl auth to gmail, so this way gmail is
just mailstorage, and the reverse is in gmail to use external mta, if i
do anything, i might try it

Marc skrev den 2024-01-19 09:34:

> Hi Byung and Benny, are you having a nice MX party? :)

not needed yet, hehe

Byung-Hee HWANG skrev den 2024-01-19 11:12:

> I rely on DNSWL for the reputable MX.

if repution is 100% needed we all have to make local rescore on all
local mails, since repution is to be local, not external just

i consider dnswl level 0 to be possitive scored, and let the other
levels be negative, this fits nicely, but was not designed to be so in
mta stage

On 1/7/24 04:07, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:
> Hellow Thomas,
>
> See https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1043539#88
>
>
> Sincerely, Byung-Hee

The issue is not so much that GMail doesn't accept the email. It does,
since I have DKIM, DMARC, and SPF set up.

But it drops it into the spam folder every time. So when I'm sending
emails to someone's alias, they have to check their spam folder. Even
when they mark it as "not spam," GMail still drops it into the spam
folder. It's very frustrating.

Thomas

On 1/7/24 05:40, Matus UHLAR - fantomas wrote:
>>> I built email servers for a non-profit I volunteer for.  If email
>>> comes into the server for president@myassociation.org, I would
>>> normally just create an alias in /etc/aliases so that emails to
>>> president@ get forwarded to the president's "real" email address, say
>>> presidents_real_email@gmail.com.
>
> postfix supports expand_owner_alias, which, when you are sending to
> alias@example.com, will set sender to owner-alias@example.com.
>
> That way SPF should pass.
>
>>> The problem is, when I send email to president@myassociation.org,
>>> gmail rejects the forwarded email because it appears to come from my
>>> personal domain, not the mythical myassociation.org domain.  DKIM,
>>> DMARC, and SPF all fail, which I totally understand.
>>>
>>> How can I make this work?
>
> DKIM should not fail, unless you modify the message. Do you modify the
> message?
>
>
> On 07.01.24 19:07, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:
>> See https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1043539#88
>
> Cite:
>
>> If your dkim signature is OK, then Gmail does accept all
>> mails. So never use SRS. DKIM is enough.
>
> This is not a good advice. Whoever filters SPF at SMTP time will reject
> that message. Gmail is not the only mail service available.

Initially, I was seeing errors where GMail didn't list SPF as "passed."
But after about an hour, it started passing. I think it was an old DNS
record that finally expired.

The forwarded email is being *accepted* by GMail. My issue now is that
GMail drops it into the recipient's spam folder. I suspect it's a
reputation thing. Once the server is up and running for a while, I'm
hoping that GMail will stop flagging the emails from the server as spam.

Thomas

On Fri, Jan 19, 2024 at 10:37:13AM -0600, Thomas Cameron wrote:
> The forwarded email is being *accepted* by GMail. My issue now is that GMail
> drops it into the recipient's spam folder. I suspect it's a reputation
> thing. Once the server is up and running for a while, I'm hoping that GMail
> will stop flagging the emails from the server as spam.


You would need to encourage at least several of the recepients (the
more the better) to click on "Not spam" button on GMail on such
mails. Then it will (eventually) start accepting them normally.

see e.g. https://serverfault.com/questions/953486/repairing-e-mail-domain-reputation-on-google

I suspect that Google might even doing it on purpose, in order to
"encourage" even more users to be locked in their e-mail
walled-garden ecosystem.

--
Opinions above are GNU-copylefted.

On 1/19/24 14:33, Matija Nalis wrote:
> You would need to encourage at least several of the recepients (the
> more the better) to click on "Not spam" button on GMail on such
> mails. Then it will (eventually) start accepting them normally.

Yup, that's basically what I've been doing.

> see e.g. https://serverfault.com/questions/953486/repairing-e-mail-domain-reputation-on-google
>
> I suspect that Google might even doing it on purpose, in order to
> "encourage" even more users to be locked in their e-mail
> walled-garden ecosystem.

Google being anti-competitive? I'm shocked! SHOCKED, I say! <eyeroll.gif>

--
Thomas

Hellow Thomas,

> But it drops it into the spam folder every time. So when I'm sending
> emails to someone's alias, they have to check their spam folder. Even
> when they mark it as "not spam," GMail still drops it into the spam
> folder. It's very frustrating.
>

There is a filtering rule in Gmail:

*Never send it to Spam*

I apply that rule to extremely important emails such as debian-bugs-
dist and debian-devel-announce.


Sincerely, Byung-Hee

--
^????? _????_ ?????_^))//

On 1/19/24 16:32, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:
> There is a filtering rule in Gmail:
>
> *Never send it to Spam*
>
> I apply that rule to extremely important emails such as debian-bugs-
> dist and debian-devel-announce.

You know that. I know that. But trying to explain to the board members
I'm helping out is... painful.

Thomas

On Fri, 19 Jan 2024, Thomas Cameron wrote:

> On 1/19/24 16:32, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote:
>> There is a filtering rule in Gmail:
>>
>> *Never send it to Spam*
>>
>> I apply that rule to extremely important emails such as debian-bugs-
>> dist and debian-devel-announce.
>
> You know that. I know that. But trying to explain to the board members I'm
> helping out is... painful.

Very simply worded step by step instructions, with screenshots amended
with arrows, outlines, highlights and so forth as needed.

...the .sigmonster agrees.


--
John Hardin KA7OHZ http://www.impsec.org/~jhardin/
jhardin@impsec.org pgpk -a jhardin@impsec.org
key: 0xB8732E79 -- 2D8C 34F4 6411 F507 136C AF76 D822 E6E6 B873 2E79
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
News flash: Lowest Common Denominator down 50 points
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
4 days until John Moses Browning's 169th Birthday

On Fri, 2024-01-19 at 15:15 +0100, Benny Pedersen wrote:
> Byung-Hee HWANG skrev den 2024-01-19 11:12:
>
> > I rely on DNSWL for the reputable MX.
>
> if repution is 100% needed we all have to make local rescore on all
> local mails, since repution is to be local, not external just
>
> i consider dnswl level 0 to be possitive scored, and let the other
> levels be negative, this fits nicely, but was not designed to be so
> in
> mta stage
>

I think "reputation" is a somewhat political term. And each person has
different standards. So it's quite difficult to give a detailed
response to your feedback.

Happy new year, Benny!


Sincerely, Byung-Hee

--
^????? _????_ ?????_^))//