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RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask
jim at carroll
Dec 22, 2016, 8:38 AM
Post #1 of 13 (2136 views)
Permalink
Trying to understand a design decision in RIPD. I originally reported this
as a bug on quagga-users
(https://lists.quagga.net/pipermail/quagga-users/2016-December/014604.html).



But in ripd.c, lines 1316 - 1323 I see the following:



/* Default route's netmask is ignored. */

if (packet->version == RIPv2

&& (rte->prefix.s_addr == 0)

&& (rte->mask.s_addr != 0))

{

if (IS_RIP_DEBUG_EVENT)

zlog_debug ("Default route with non-zero netmask. Set zero to
netmask");

rte->mask.s_addr = 0;

}



This code is preventing us distributing the route 0.0.0.0/1 through RIP and
retaining it's netmask. Would someone mind shedding some light on this code
& why the restriction exists?



FYI: Our motivation for distributing 0.0.0.0/1 is to cause LAN hosts to
prefer one ISP over another. If the preferred ISP goes down, a script we've
written will remove the static route (and remove it's companion route
128.0.0.0/1), which causes the LAN to use the backup ISP.

Attached Files:

Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
lambert at psc
Dec 22, 2016, 1:38 PM
Post #2 of 13 (2131 views)
Permalink
> On 22 Dec 2016, at 11:38, Jim C. <jim@carroll.com> wrote:
>
> Trying to understand a design decision in RIPD. I originally reported this as a bug on quagga-users (https://lists.quagga.net/pipermail/quagga-users/2016-December/014604.html).
>
> <snip>
>
> This code is preventing us distributing the route 0.0.0.0/1 through RIP and retaining it’s netmask. Would someone mind shedding some light on this code & why the restriction exists?
>
> FYI: Our motivation for distributing 0.0.0.0/1 is to cause LAN hosts to prefer one ISP over another. If the preferred ISP goes down, a script we’ve written will remove the static route (and remove it’s companion route 128.0.0.0/1), which causes the LAN to use the backup ISP.

This use case makes sense to me. However, quoting RFC 2453, "The special address 0.0.0.0 is used to describe a default route." It makes no reference to an associated netmask.

Michael

Attached Files:

Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
lsorense at csclub
Dec 22, 2016, 2:07 PM
Post #3 of 13 (2131 views)
Permalink
On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 04:38:52PM -0500, Michael H Lambert wrote:
>
> > On 22 Dec 2016, at 11:38, Jim C. <jim@carroll.com> wrote:
> >
> > Trying to understand a design decision in RIPD. I originally reported this as a bug on quagga-users (https://lists.quagga.net/pipermail/quagga-users/2016-December/014604.html).
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > This code is preventing us distributing the route 0.0.0.0/1 through RIP and retaining it’s netmask. Would someone mind shedding some light on this code & why the restriction exists?
> >
> > FYI: Our motivation for distributing 0.0.0.0/1 is to cause LAN hosts to prefer one ISP over another. If the preferred ISP goes down, a script we’ve written will remove the static route (and remove it’s companion route 128.0.0.0/1), which causes the LAN to use the backup ISP.
>
> This use case makes sense to me. However, quoting RFC 2453, "The special address 0.0.0.0 is used to describe a default route." It makes no reference to an associated netmask.

Is it possible to have RIP advertise itself as a default route gateway,
and then the fact you have 0.0.0.0/1 and 128.0.0.0/1 on the box itself
will take care of the routing when the packets arive at the router?

I thought that was what 'default-information originate' was for.

You don't need the two /1 routes advertised through RIP as long as you
do advertise that you are a default gateway, unless it is somehow
important everyone else go directly to your chosen gateway and not
through you.

--
Len Sorensen

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Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
jim at carroll
Dec 22, 2016, 2:38 PM
Post #4 of 13 (2130 views)
Permalink
Thanks for the RFC reference. A little above the reference you shared is
the following:

"...Fields that are labeled "address" can contain any of the
following: host address subnet number network number zero
(default route)..."

That would suggest that default includes the subnet number zero.

I don’t know if there's any wiggle room on this or not as I'm not sure
what the quagga community protocol is for requesting a change to RIP based
on a reading of the RFC. If the group is open, I'd be happy to change the
code to remove the restriction and submit a patch.

But if not -- no worries. Now that I understand the limitation, I can come
up with another solution using route distance. Not as elegant, but if a
LAN host ships the packet to the wrong router, we can arrange to route it
to the correct egress.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Michael H Lambert [mailto:lambert@psc.edu]
> Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2016 4:39 PM
> To: Quagga Dev
> Subject: [quagga-dev 16474] Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route
> with non-zero netmask
>
>
> > On 22 Dec 2016, at 11:38, Jim C. <jim@carroll.com> wrote:
> >
> > Trying to understand a design decision in RIPD. I originally
> reported this as a bug on quagga-users
> (https://lists.quagga.net/pipermail/quagga-users/2016-
> December/014604.html).
> >
> > <snip>
> >
> > This code is preventing us distributing the route 0.0.0.0/1 through
> RIP and retaining it’s netmask. Would someone mind shedding some light
> on this code & why the restriction exists?
> >
> > FYI: Our motivation for distributing 0.0.0.0/1 is to cause LAN hosts
> to prefer one ISP over another. If the preferred ISP goes down, a
> script we’ve written will remove the static route (and remove it’s
> companion route 128.0.0.0/1), which causes the LAN to use the backup
> ISP.
>
> This use case makes sense to me. However, quoting RFC 2453, "The
> special address 0.0.0.0 is used to describe a default route." It makes
> no reference to an associated netmask.
>
> Michael
>
>



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Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
jim at carroll
Dec 22, 2016, 2:57 PM
Post #5 of 13 (2130 views)
Permalink
> Is it possible to have RIP advertise itself as a default route gateway,
> and then the fact you have 0.0.0.0/1 and 128.0.0.0/1 on the box itself
> will take care of the routing when the packets arrive at the router?

We have two RIP routers connected to upstream ISP's. Each of them are set to
'redistribute static', which causes their default routes to be announced.
We're trying to make sure that while the network is operating normally,
traffic flows through a specific router.

By having ROUTER-1 announce the two /1's, we were hoping to the LAN would
consider ROUTER-1 as the preferred default. Quagga allows us to create the
two /1 static routes in ROUTER-1, and RIPD sends the routes with it's Response
packets -- but the receiving RIPD on ROUTER-2 changes the 0.0.0.0/1 ->
0.0.0.0/0...and then drops it because static routes beats rip routes.

> I thought that was what 'default-information originate' was for.

We discovered 'default-information originate' was not necessary when RIP is
set to use 'redistribute static'.

Further, Quagga's implementation of 'default-information originate' causes RIP
to announce itself as a default ALWAYS, even if the announcing router does not
have an actual valid default route.

> You don't need the two /1 routes advertised through RIP as long as you
> do advertise that you are a default gateway, unless it is somehow
> important everyone else go directly to your chosen gateway and not
> through you.

It's not the end of the world if the LAN ships traffic to wrong router, so
long as that router then forwards it to preferred router.

We can accomplish our goal by manipulating the distance of the static default
route on ROUTER-2. It's not as elegant, but as Michael pointed out to me
earlier -- this could be an RFC issue, in which case we have no argument to
make.


Thanks
Jim


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`
end


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Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
paul at jakma
Jan 9, 2017, 2:43 PM
Post #6 of 13 (2087 views)
Permalink
Hi Jim,

I don't claim to know the answer exactly, but...

On Thu, 22 Dec 2016, Jim C. wrote:

> Thanks for the RFC reference. A little above the reference you shared is
> the following:
>
> "...Fields that are labeled "address" can contain any of the
> following: host address subnet number network number zero
> (default route)..."
>
> That would suggest that default includes the subnet number zero.

> I don???t know if there's any wiggle room on this or not as I'm not
> sure what the quagga community protocol is for requesting a change to
> RIP based on a reading of the RFC. If the group is open, I'd be happy
> to change the code to remove the restriction and submit a patch.

Conceptually, you can't really know whether the address is 0, if you can
only look at the first bit, can you?

I would think 0/1 should do as you wanted. Just as 128/1 should.

regards,
--
Paul Jakma | paul@jakma.org | @pjakma | Key ID: 0xD86BF79464A2FF6A
Fortune:
Hard reality has a way of cramping your style.
-- Daniel Dennett

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Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
jim at carroll
Jan 10, 2017, 5:09 AM
Post #7 of 13 (2084 views)
Permalink
Hi Paul,

I found two alternate approaches -- both of which work for our needs
although I'm still interested in trying to convince RIPd to accept
0.0.0.0/1. Just wanted to share our solution (in case anyone stumbles
across this thread in the future)

One option is to instead of announcing two /1's, to announce the 8 routes:

128.0.0.0/1
64.0.0.0/2
32.0.0.0/3
16.0.0.0/4
8.0.0.0/5
4.0.0.0/6
2.0.0.0/7
1.0.0.0/8

Ugly, but effective. Those extra seven routes are how we get around RIPd's
filtering 0.0.0.0/1.

The second approach is to install a default with admin distance:

ip route 0.0.0.0/0 121

This is the approach we went with.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Jakma [mailto:paul@jakma.org]
> Sent: Monday, January 09, 2017 5:43 PM
> To: Jim C.
> Cc: Michael H Lambert; Quagga Dev
> Subject: Re: [quagga-dev 16476] Re: RIPD refuses to accept default
> route with non-zero netmask
>
> Hi Jim,
>
> I don't claim to know the answer exactly, but...
>
> On Thu, 22 Dec 2016, Jim C. wrote:
>
> > Thanks for the RFC reference. A little above the reference you
> shared is
> > the following:
> >
> > "...Fields that are labeled "address" can contain any of the
> > following: host address subnet number network number zero
> > (default route)..."
> >
> > That would suggest that default includes the subnet number zero.
>
> > I don???t know if there's any wiggle room on this or not as I'm not
> > sure what the quagga community protocol is for requesting a change to
> > RIP based on a reading of the RFC. If the group is open, I'd be
> happy
> > to change the code to remove the restriction and submit a patch.
>
> Conceptually, you can't really know whether the address is 0, if you
> can
> only look at the first bit, can you?
>
> I would think 0/1 should do as you wanted. Just as 128/1 should.
>
> regards,
> --
> Paul Jakma | paul@jakma.org | @pjakma | Key ID: 0xD86BF79464A2FF6A
> Fortune:
> Hard reality has a way of cramping your style.
> -- Daniel Dennett


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`
end


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Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
paul at jakma
Jan 10, 2017, 7:47 AM
Post #8 of 13 (2084 views)
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, Alexis Rosen wrote:

> This makes sense to me, and the RFC doesn't.

Where's the RFC wrong exactly? "subnet 0" - 0/1 can't be that, as 0/1
means you can not look at the full addr?

> - Patch it, and provide a config command to enable the feature (or,
> less good but easier, a compile time switch).

> The first option seems ideal except it's likely to take most of a year
> to happen, if it does at all.

I'm good with having 0/1 and 128/1 work as expected, by default. A
'compatibility' config option to disable it, for any weird interop
issues on top would make it a patch I'd apply - if there were no other
objections/foreseeable issues.

regards,
--
Paul Jakma | paul@jakma.org | @pjakma | Key ID: 0xD86BF79464A2FF6A
Fortune:
Poverty must have its satisfactions, else there would not be so many poor
people.
-- Don Herold

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Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
paul at jakma
Jan 10, 2017, 2:41 PM
Post #9 of 13 (2081 views)
Permalink
On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, Alexis Rosen wrote:

> On Jan 10, 2017, at 10:47 AM, Paul Jakma <paul@jakma.org> wrote:
>> On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, Alexis Rosen wrote:
>>> This makes sense to me, and the RFC doesn't.
>>
>> Where's the RFC wrong exactly? "subnet 0" - 0/1 can't be that, as 0/1
>> means you can not look at the full addr?
>
> On Dec 22, 2016, at 4:38 PM, Michael H Lambert <lambert@psc.edu> wrote:

>> This use case makes sense to me. However, quoting RFC 2453, "The
>> special address 0.0.0.0 is used to describe a default route." It
>> makes no reference to an associated netmask.

> So, to answer your question, I think 2453 should be amended to say
> that only 0.0.0.0/0 is the default.

> The problem is, there may be a ton of gear and code out there like
> quagga that ignores the mask on 0.0.0.0.

Well, it's clearing the netmask, when the s_addr is 0. That's not in the
RFC either. Re-announced route will have it 0 then I assume.

Is there anywhere that would break if we stopped clearing the netmask?
Seems unlikely that anyone would be distributing 0/x, 0 < x <= 8 routes
yet expecting it to be a default - anyone trying that is probably like
Jim, wishing that bug wasn't there? ;)

Risks seem very slim, or ..?

> If so, to preserve interoperability, the amendment would have to say
> something like "By default, you MUST treat 0.0.0.0 as the default
> route, regardless of subnet mask. However, you MAY have an option to
> treat 0.0.0.0 with a non-zero netmask as a route other than the
> default."

Ack.

regards,
--
Paul Jakma | paul@jakma.org | @pjakma | Key ID: 0xD86BF79464A2FF6A
Fortune:
Memory should be the starting point of the present.

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Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
quagga-users at alexis
Jan 10, 2017, 3:51 PM
Post #10 of 13 (2081 views)
Permalink
On Jan 10, 2017, at 5:41 PM, Paul Jakma <paul@jakma.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, Alexis Rosen wrote:
>> On Jan 10, 2017, at 10:47 AM, Paul Jakma <paul@jakma.org> wrote:
>>> On Tue, 10 Jan 2017, Alexis Rosen wrote:
>>>> This makes sense to me, and the RFC doesn't.
>>>
>>> Where's the RFC wrong exactly? "subnet 0" - 0/1 can't be that, as 0/1 means you can not look at the full addr?
>>
>> On Dec 22, 2016, at 4:38 PM, Michael H Lambert <lambert@psc.edu> wrote:
>
>>> This use case makes sense to me. However, quoting RFC 2453, "The special address 0.0.0.0 is used to describe a default route." It makes no reference to an associated netmask.
>
>> So, to answer your question, I think 2453 should be amended to say that only 0.0.0.0/0 is the default.
>
>> The problem is, there may be a ton of gear and code out there like quagga that ignores the mask on 0.0.0.0.
>
> Well, it's clearing the netmask, when the s_addr is 0. That's not in the RFC either. Re-announced route will have it 0 then I assume.

Good point, that's not really right either! On that basis, I propose that that bit of code be deleted, since it's not really RFC-compliant either. If someone really cares about compliance, they can re-patch it with a proper configuration switch.

> Is there anywhere that would break if we stopped clearing the netmask? Seems unlikely that anyone would be distributing 0/x, 0 < x <= 8 routes yet expecting it to be a default - anyone trying that is probably like Jim, wishing that bug wasn't there? ;)
>
> Risks seem very slim, or ..?

Sounds reasonable.

/a
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Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
jim at carroll
Jan 11, 2017, 6:48 AM
Post #11 of 13 (2081 views)
Permalink
I'm new to reading quagga-dev so I have a question.

Since it sounds like the group is arriving at consensus to remove the code
that clears the netmask -- is it my role to submit a patch to the git repoo?


> > Well, it's clearing the netmask, when the s_addr is 0. That's not in
> the RFC either. Re-announced route will have it 0 then I assume.
>
> Good point, that's not really right either! On that basis, I propose
> that that bit of code be deleted, since it's not really RFC-compliant
> either. If someone really cares about compliance, they can re-patch it
> with a proper configuration switch.
>
> > Is there anywhere that would break if we stopped clearing the
> netmask? Seems unlikely that anyone would be distributing 0/x, 0 < x <=
> 8 routes yet expecting it to be a default - anyone trying that is
> probably like Jim, wishing that bug wasn't there? ;)
> >
> > Risks seem very slim, or ..?
>
> Sounds reasonable.
>
> /a


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`
end


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Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
lambert at psc
Jan 11, 2017, 7:05 AM
Post #12 of 13 (2081 views)
Permalink
> On 11 Jan 2017, at 09:48, Jim C. <jim@carroll.com> wrote:
>
> I'm new to reading quagga-dev so I have a question.
>
> Since it sounds like the group is arriving at consensus to remove the code
> that clears the netmask -- is it my role to submit a patch to the git repoo?

It often works that way, but I don't know that it's an absolute requirement (but you are the one with the vested interest in RIP...). One thing that concerns me is that traffic on the -dev list has fallen to a trickle over the past couple of months. Is there any reason to worry that quagga has become orphanware?

Michael


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Re: RIPD refuses to accept default route with non-zero netmask [ In reply to ]
paul at jakma
Jan 11, 2017, 1:32 PM
Post #13 of 13 (2079 views)
Permalink
On Wed, 11 Jan 2017, Jim C. wrote:

> I'm new to reading quagga-dev so I have a question.
>
> Since it sounds like the group is arriving at consensus to remove the
> code that clears the netmask -- is it my role to submit a patch to the
> git repoo?

If you could that'd be great.

You can prepare a commit in git, then either email it to this list, or
else attach it as a bug to bugzilla, and it'll be hoovered up into a
review cycle in due course (a summary of which will be emailed to here).

Email to the list will be tracked by:

https://patchwork.quagga.net/

And there's a nifty CLI tool that works from within your git repo that
integrates with that.

Bugs can be reported at:

https://bugzilla.quagga.net/

There's a couple of git integration tools for that. "git bz" is the one
that works best for me. (Well, except I can not get it to work from
behind the corporate proxy - some issue in the underlying python libs,
least on Fedora).

I'd like to try out gitlab soon, and have everyone work on that. Need to
get a container running. If that doesn't work out, I'll setup gitolite,
and resurrect "people.quagga.net".

regards,
--
Paul Jakma | paul@jakma.org | @pjakma | Key ID: 0xD86BF79464A2FF6A
Fortune:
To every Ph.D. there is an equal and opposite Ph.D.
-- B. Duggan

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