Mailing List Archive

On Wed, 21 Jul 1999, Gerrit Holl wrote:

> On Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 02:31:55AM -0400, Tim Peters wrote:
> > > I want to learn to hack
> > So, little Roger, you want to learn how to hack? You came to the right
> > place! First walk down the hall and pick up a copy of Python from Guido.
> > He'll have you cracking bank accounts in no time <wink>.
> >
> > the-psa-is-the-richest-organization-on-earth-ly y'rs - tim
> >
>
> Well, I think Roger meant hack, not crack. Have a look at Eric S Raymonds
> "How to become an hacker FAQ" at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/ (and some
> further).
>
> Hacking is good,
> cracking is bad.
>
> I also want to learn to hack, I'm learning it!
> I *don't* want to learn to crack!!

Gerrit -- just to fill you in -- Roger was presumably either joking or
testing a spam filter -- he is a colleague of Guido's, and knows all about
hacking. Whether he knows about cracking or not is not something he's
likely to disclose in public. =)

(In other words, Tim was kidding, Roger was kidding, I'm not kidding!).

--david

David Ascher wrote:
>
> On Wed, 21 Jul 1999, Gerrit Holl wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jul 20, 1999 at 02:31:55AM -0400, Tim Peters wrote:
> > > > I want to learn to hack
> > > So, little Roger, you want to learn how to hack? You came to the right
> > > place! First walk down the hall and pick up a copy of Python from Guido.
> > > He'll have you cracking bank accounts in no time <wink>.
> > >
> > > the-psa-is-the-richest-organization-on-earth-ly y'rs - tim
> > >
> >
> > Well, I think Roger meant hack, not crack. Have a look at Eric S Raymonds
> > "How to become an hacker FAQ" at http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/ (and some
> > further).
> >
> > Hacking is good,
> > cracking is bad.
> >
> > I also want to learn to hack, I'm learning it!
> > I *don't* want to learn to crack!!
>
> Gerrit -- just to fill you in -- Roger was presumably either joking or
> testing a spam filter -- he is a colleague of Guido's, and knows all about
> hacking. Whether he knows about cracking or not is not something he's
> likely to disclose in public. =)
>
> (In other words, Tim was kidding, Roger was kidding, I'm not kidding!).

No, you're just emailing to the wrong list :-)))

--
Christian Tismer :^) <mailto:tismer@appliedbiometrics.com>
Applied Biometrics GmbH : Have a break! Take a ride on Python's
Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 101 : *Starship* http://starship.python.net
10553 Berlin : PGP key -> http://wwwkeys.pgp.net
PGP Fingerprint E182 71C7 1A9D 66E9 9D15 D3CC D4D7 93E2 1FAE F6DF
we're tired of banana software - shipped green, ripens at home

David Ascher writes:

> Gerrit -- just to fill you in -- Roger was presumably either joking or
> testing a spam filter -- he is a colleague of Guido's, and knows all about
> hacking. Whether he knows about cracking or not is not something he's
> likely to disclose in public. =)
>
> (In other words, Tim was kidding, Roger was kidding, I'm not kidding!).

Errr, it seems I've inadvertantly 'cracked' opened a can of worms.
I really just wanted to know how the Python tutors deal with such
requests, since they are arriving with alarming frequency to
webmaster@python.org. I'm not quite sure how or why this became a
thread on python-list, but it sure makes me feel tingley all over
when Tim calls me 'little Roger'. <blush, giggle>

hacking-is-what-I-do-for-work-cracking-cyphertext-is-just-plain-fun-ly y'rs

-roj

On Thu, 22 Jul 1999, little Roger <rmasse@cnri.reston.va.us> wrote:
>> (In other words, Tim was kidding, Roger was kidding, I'm not
>> kidding!).
>Errr, it seems I've inadvertantly 'cracked' opened a can of worms. I
>really just wanted to know how the Python tutors deal with such
>requests, since they are arriving with alarming frequency to
>webmaster@python.org.

This was the first one I've seen in all my many years as a reader of the
tutor list... Are you planning on forwarding them to the tutor list,
and wanted to test the waters, or did you just want some ideas on how to
handle them when they came your way?

>I'm not quite sure how or why this became a thread on python-list,

Just lucky, I suppose...

>but it sure makes me feel tingley all over when Tim calls me 'little
>Roger'. <blush, giggle>

More information than I needed, thanks. ;)

>hacking-is-what-I-do-for-work-cracking-cyphertext-is-just-plain-fun-ly
>y'rs

See-now-if-you-had-included-a-tag-line-like-this,-we-would-have-known-
right-away-ly-y'rs,
Blake.

--
One Will. One Dream. One Truth. One Destiny. One Love.

>>>>> "BW" == Blake Winton <bwinton@tor.dhs.org> writes:

BW> This was the first one I've seen in all my many years as a
BW> reader of the tutor list... Are you planning on forwarding
BW> them to the tutor list, and wanted to test the waters, or did
BW> you just want some ideas on how to handle them when they came
BW> your way?

When I see such messages on webmaster@python.org I basically ignore
them. The replybot on that addr gives all the information that
someone with an inkling of a clue needs to figure out where to go next
(I hope -- if anybody thinks otherwise, feel free to suggest
improvements!).

I'm usually pretty good about hitting `d' on messages to webmaster
that aren't dealing strictly with the operation or content of the
site, but every once in a while I'll forward a message on to
python-help. I usually don't forward to tutor.

-Barry

Roger Masse <rmasse@cnri.reston.va.us> wrote:
>Errr, it seems I've inadvertantly 'cracked' opened a can of worms.
>I really just wanted to know how the Python tutors deal with such
>requests, since they are arriving with alarming frequency to
>webmaster@python.org.

I fear this is my fault.

Some time back, I published a page called "How To Become A Hacker"
<URL:http://earthspace.net/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html">. As a result,
I get a couple dozen semi-illiterate email notes a week from teenagers
wanting me to teach them everything I know. Instantly.

(I tolerate this because once a month or so I get a letter from a kid
who is well-spoken, intelligent, and thoughtful. *Those* I help.)

Earlier this year I changed the document to recommend Python as a
first language. I still think this was a good idea, but I see it has
had an unfortunate side-effect.
--
<a href="http://earthspace.net/~esr">Eric S. Raymond</a>

Eric> Some time back, I published a page called "How To Become A Hacker"
Eric> <URL:http://earthspace.net/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html">. As a
Eric> result, I get a couple dozen semi-illiterate email notes a week
Eric> from teenagers wanting me to teach them everything I know.
Eric> Instantly.

...

Eric> Earlier this year I changed the document to recommend Python as a
Eric> first language. I still think this was a good idea, but I see it
Eric> has had an unfortunate side-effect.

Eric, just think how much more they'll be hacking in Python instead of
MSVC++, VB or Perl! ;-)

Skip Montanaro | http://www.mojam.com/
skip@mojam.com | http://www.musi-cal.com/~skip/
847-475-3758

Skip> Eric, just think how much more they'll be hacking in Python
Skip> instead of MSVC++, VB or Perl! ;-)

Ack! Should have been:

Eric, just think how much more *productively* they'll be hacking in
Python instead of MSVC++, VB or Perl! ;-)

so-much-for-off-the-cuff-witicisms-ly y'rs,

S

Hi All--

"Eric S. Raymond" wrote:
>

[bobbitt]

>
> I fear this is my fault.
>
> Some time back, I published a page called "How To Become A Hacker"
> <URL:http://earthspace.net/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html">. As a result,
> I get a couple dozen semi-illiterate email notes a week from teenagers
> wanting me to teach them everything I know. Instantly.
>
> (I tolerate this because once a month or so I get a letter from a kid
> who is well-spoken, intelligent, and thoughtful. *Those* I help.)
>
> Earlier this year I changed the document to recommend Python as a
> first language. I still think this was a good idea, but I see it has
> had an unfortunate side-effect.
> --
> <a href="http://earthspace.net/~esr">Eric S. Raymond</a>

Oh, we'll forgive you. We'll forgive *anyone* who recommends Python as
a first language! But maybe you should change your document to point
people to the tutor list, for *really* new Python newbies, though?

http://www.python.org/psa/MailingLists.html

or maybe just

mailto:tutor@python.org

might even be better.

<no-witticisms-from-those-under-deadline!>-ly y'rs,
Ivan
----------------------------------------------
Ivan Van Laningham
Callware Technologies, Inc.
ivanlan@callware.com
ivanlan@home.com
http://www.pauahtun.org
See also:
http://www.foretec.com/python/workshops/1998-11/proceedings.html
Army Signal Corps: Cu Chi, Class of '70
----------------------------------------------

On Thu, 29 Jul 1999, Skip Montanaro wrote:

> Skip> Eric, just think how much more they'll be hacking in Python

Think of that army slogan: Be all you can be.

xan

jonathon

> Some time back, I published a page called "How To Become A Hacker"
> <URL:http://earthspace.net/~esr/faqs/hacker-howto.html">. As a result,
> I get a couple dozen semi-illiterate email notes a week from teenagers
> wanting me to teach them everything I know. Instantly.

Well, I have been a hacker for a good 7-8 years now, and I never quite found
any text that quite caught the essance of hacking quite like that. After
reading it, I have started reading up on Python. I can already program in
C, Assmebly, Basic, and (gasp) Pascal. Anyway I'm just trailing off. I
wrote a text file a while back, and made the mistake of putting an e-mail
address on it. From that point on I got 50+ e-mails a day. It got bad
enough that I finally just deleted the e-mail account and started a new
one. It seems that some newbies just don't know how to do anything on their
own; which defeats the entire purpose of hacking.