Mailing List Archive

[Replying to the list *and* Grant]

On 2024-02-17 19:38:04 -0500, Grant Edwards via Python-list wrote:
> Today I noticed that nothing I've posted to python-list in past 3
> weeks has shown up on the list.

January 29th, AFAICS. And end of december before that.

> I don't know how to troubleshoot this other than sending test
> messages. Obviously, if this shows up on the list, then I've gotten
> it to work...

This did show up and 3 other test messages with very similar text
as well.

Also there was a whole flurry of almost but not quite identical messages
from you in the "nan" thread.

hp

--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) | |
| | | hjp@hjp.at | -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | challenge!"

We see you Peter

AK

On Sun, Feb 18, 2024 at 2:41?PM Peter J. Holzer via Python-list <
python-list@python.org> wrote:

> [Replying to the list *and* Grant]
>
> On 2024-02-17 19:38:04 -0500, Grant Edwards via Python-list wrote:
> > Today I noticed that nothing I've posted to python-list in past 3
> > weeks has shown up on the list.
>
> January 29th, AFAICS. And end of december before that.
>
> > I don't know how to troubleshoot this other than sending test
> > messages. Obviously, if this shows up on the list, then I've gotten
> > it to work...
>
> This did show up and 3 other test messages with very similar text
> as well.
>
> Also there was a whole flurry of almost but not quite identical messages
> from you in the "nan" thread.
>
> hp
>
> --
> _ | Peter J. Holzer | Story must make more sense than reality.
> |_|_) | |
> | | | hjp@hjp.at | -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
> __/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | challenge!"
> --
> https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list
>
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

On 2024-02-18, Peter J. Holzer via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:
> [Replying to the list *and* Grant]
>
> On 2024-02-17 19:38:04 -0500, Grant Edwards via Python-list wrote:
>> Today I noticed that nothing I've posted to python-list in past 3
>> weeks has shown up on the list.
>
> January 29th, AFAICS. And end of december before that.
>
>> I don't know how to troubleshoot this other than sending test
>> messages. Obviously, if this shows up on the list, then I've gotten
>> it to work...
>
> This did show up and 3 other test messages with very similar text
> as well.
>
> Also there was a whole flurry of almost but not quite identical messages
> from you in the "nan" thread.

Sorry about that.

All of those were posted at various times throughout the day yesterday
using two different accounts, two different mail servers, and three
different methods for submitting the e-mails. I finally gave up and
switched to using comp.lang.python via Usenet.

Then, about 24 hours later, all those messages finally showed up.

At one point about half way through that process yesterday, I
unsusbscribed and then re-subscribed both e-mail addresses. I got
confirmation and welcome messages on both accounts. Sending "help"
requests to the list server produced the expected results. I enabled
the sending of confirmation messages from the list server.

But posts to the list still seemed to vanish into the ether while
emails from both accounts reached other destinations without delay,

During this process a number of posts from other users did appear in
the list archive and at at _one_ of the two e-mail addresses which I
had subscribed.

But no sign of any of my posts.

About 24 hours later, all of my posts (and the confirmation e-mails)
all showed up in a burst at the same time on two different unrelated
e-mail accounts.

I still have no clue what was going on...

--
Grant



--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

On 19/02/24 12:09, Grant Edwards via Python-list wrote:
...

> But posts to the list still seemed to vanish into the ether while
> emails from both accounts reached other destinations without delay,
>
> During this process a number of posts from other users did appear in
> the list archive and at at _one_ of the two e-mail addresses which I
> had subscribed.
>
> But no sign of any of my posts.
>
> About 24 hours later, all of my posts (and the confirmation e-mails)
> all showed up in a burst at the same time on two different unrelated
> e-mail accounts.
>
> I still have no clue what was going on...

Looking at the email-headers, there are sometimes considerable delays
between messages submitted to the List-reflector, and their outward
transmission (to me).

Interestingly, there's something strange about the queuing. Instead of
FIFO it seems some messages arrive ahead of others, ie out-of-sequence.
(wonder if explained by submission via email or Usenet?)

I've noted long delays too. Perhaps (also) to do with time-of-day?

Always feel slightly embarrassed if 'repeat' an answer* that someone
else had previously submitted, eg __new__ thread and @MRAB. However, if
the reflector 'holds onto' the earlier message, then how should I/anyone
know?

* yes, repetition improves learning, slightly different words may help
comprehension; but doubt I can express anything better than the
aforementioned does/did/can.

--
Regards,
=dn
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

I can't explain the delays, but will note that the gate-news program on the
server runs every 5 minutes via cron. There are multiple moving parts in
the overall system. You'll probably get a more useful answer from
postmaster@python.org.

Skip
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

On 2/18/2024 6:09 PM, Grant Edwards via Python-list wrote:
> On 2024-02-18, Peter J. Holzer via Python-list <python-list@python.org> wrote:
>> [Replying to the list *and* Grant]
>>
>> On 2024-02-17 19:38:04 -0500, Grant Edwards via Python-list wrote:
>>> Today I noticed that nothing I've posted to python-list in past 3
>>> weeks has shown up on the list.
>>
>> January 29th, AFAICS. And end of december before that.
>>
>>> I don't know how to troubleshoot this other than sending test
>>> messages. Obviously, if this shows up on the list, then I've gotten
>>> it to work...
>>
>> This did show up and 3 other test messages with very similar text
>> as well.
>>
>> Also there was a whole flurry of almost but not quite identical messages
>> from you in the "nan" thread.
>
> Sorry about that.
>
> All of those were posted at various times throughout the day yesterday
> using two different accounts, two different mail servers, and three
> different methods for submitting the e-mails. I finally gave up and
> switched to using comp.lang.python via Usenet.
>
> Then, about 24 hours later, all those messages finally showed up.
>
> At one point about half way through that process yesterday, I
> unsusbscribed and then re-subscribed both e-mail addresses. I got
> confirmation and welcome messages on both accounts. Sending "help"
> requests to the list server produced the expected results. I enabled
> the sending of confirmation messages from the list server.
>
> But posts to the list still seemed to vanish into the ether while
> emails from both accounts reached other destinations without delay,
>
> During this process a number of posts from other users did appear in
> the list archive and at at _one_ of the two e-mail addresses which I
> had subscribed.
>
> But no sign of any of my posts.
>
> About 24 hours later, all of my posts (and the confirmation e-mails)
> all showed up in a burst at the same time on two different unrelated
> e-mail accounts.
>
> I still have no clue what was going on...

Sometimes a post of mine will not show up for hours or even half a day.
They are all addressed directly to the list. Sometimes my email
provider sends me a notice that the message bounced. Those notices say
that the address wasn't available when the transmission was tried.

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

On 2024-02-19, Thomas Passin <list1@tompassin.net> wrote:

>> About 24 hours later, all of my posts (and the confirmation e-mails)
>> all showed up in a burst at the same time on two different unrelated
>> e-mail accounts.
>>
>> I still have no clue what was going on...
>
> Sometimes a post of mine will not show up for hours or even half a day.
> They are all addressed directly to the list. Sometimes my email
> provider sends me a notice that the message bounced. Those notices say
> that the address wasn't available when the transmission was tried.

I guess that in future I'll wait a couple days before I assume
something is broken.

--
Grant

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

On 2/19/2024 9:17 AM, Grant Edwards via Python-list wrote:
> On 2024-02-19, Thomas Passin <list1@tompassin.net> wrote:
>
>>> About 24 hours later, all of my posts (and the confirmation e-mails)
>>> all showed up in a burst at the same time on two different unrelated
>>> e-mail accounts.
>>>
>>> I still have no clue what was going on...
>>
>> Sometimes a post of mine will not show up for hours or even half a day.
>> They are all addressed directly to the list. Sometimes my email
>> provider sends me a notice that the message bounced. Those notices say
>> that the address wasn't available when the transmission was tried.

Here is a typical bounce message that I get:

<python-list@python.org>: host mail.python.org[188.166.95.178] said:
450-4.3.2
Service currently unavailable 450 4.3.2

Some time after I get one of these messages I re-send the post. Usually
it gets through then.

> I guess that in future I'll wait a couple days before I assume
> something is broken.
>
> --
> Grant
>

--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

>
> Here is a typical bounce message that I get:
>
> <python-list@python.org>: host mail.python.org[188.166.95.178] said:
> 450-4.3.2
> Service currently unavailable 450 4.3.2
>
> Some time after I get one of these messages I re-send the post. Usually
> it gets through then.
>

Looks kinda like greylisting to me. I'm pretty sure that's one of the tool
in the mail.python.org chain.

Skip

>
--
https://mail.python.org/mailman/listinfo/python-list

On 2/19/2024 11:55 AM, Skip Montanaro wrote:
> Here is a typical bounce message that I get:
>
> <python-list@python.org <mailto:python-list@python.org>>: host
> mail.python.org <http://mail.python.org>[188.166.95.178] said:
> 450-4.3.2
>      Service currently unavailable 450 4.3.2
>
> Some time after I get one of these messages I re-send the post.
> Usually
> it gets through then.
>
>
> Looks kinda like greylisting to me. I'm pretty sure that's one of the
> tool in the mail.python.org <http://mail.python.org> chain.

I don't see it as greylisting. A repeat post will succeed, before there
would be time for my email provider (Dreamhost) to do anything about it.

--
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On 2024-02-19 11:38:54 -0500, Thomas Passin via Python-list wrote:
> On 2/19/2024 9:17 AM, Grant Edwards via Python-list wrote:
> > On 2024-02-19, Thomas Passin <list1@tompassin.net> wrote:
> > > > About 24 hours later, all of my posts (and the confirmation e-mails)
> > > > all showed up in a burst at the same time on two different unrelated
> > > > e-mail accounts.
> > > >
> > > > I still have no clue what was going on...
> > >
> > > Sometimes a post of mine will not show up for hours or even half a day.
> > > They are all addressed directly to the list. Sometimes my email
> > > provider sends me a notice that the message bounced. Those notices say
> > > that the address wasn't available when the transmission was tried.
>
> Here is a typical bounce message that I get:
>
> <python-list@python.org>: host mail.python.org[188.166.95.178] said:
> 450-4.3.2
> Service currently unavailable 450 4.3.2

This is a *temporary* error. Your provider's server should retry
delivering the message for a decent amount of time (3 to 7 days is
customary).

Your provider's server may send you a notification that the mail cannot
currently be delivered and that it will keep trying. Such notifications
are usually sent after a much shorter period (a few hours).

hp

--
_ | Peter J. Holzer | Story must make more sense than reality.
|_|_) | |
| | | hjp@hjp.at | -- Charles Stross, "Creative writing
__/ | http://www.hjp.at/ | challenge!"