Mailing List Archive

On Tue, Jun 27, 2000 at 06:46:15PM -0700, Greg Stein wrote:
>A while back, I pulled the "demo" importers out of imputil.py. I think those
>should be added into Demo/imputil/.

While on the subject of adding demo directories, I'd like to add a
Demo/curses directory. (Not going to happen until after b1, though;
cute little demos aren't a high priority at the moment.)

--amk

> A while back, I pulled the "demo" importers out of imputil.py. I think those
> should be added into Demo/imputil/.

OK. Go ahead and create that directory and add the demo importers.

> It would also be Goodness to include JimA's zipimporter. Where would that go?

Same place I'd hope? Can you check that it works?

We're dependent on you volunteers to maintain relatively non-core
things like this -- I don't want to extend the feature freeze to
Demo/, but I also don't have the time to keep the stuff there up to
date. Maybe at some point the Demo directory should become a separate
distribution, or just a collection of stuff on the web?

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)

On Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 09:55:00AM -0500, Guido van Rossum wrote:
> > A while back, I pulled the "demo" importers out of imputil.py. I think those
> > should be added into Demo/imputil/.
>
> OK. Go ahead and create that directory and add the demo importers.

Will do.

> > It would also be Goodness to include JimA's zipimporter. Where would that go?
>
> Same place I'd hope? Can you check that it works?

Yup and yup.

> We're dependent on you volunteers to maintain relatively non-core
> things like this -- I don't want to extend the feature freeze to
> Demo/, but I also don't have the time to keep the stuff there up to
> date.

Not a problem, and I had figured on being the "point man" on keeping it
working. My query here was more along the lines of "is Demo/imputil/ a good
idea? If so, then I'll run with it." You said "yes", so I'll go put on my
shoes.

> Maybe at some point the Demo directory should become a separate
> distribution, or just a collection of stuff on the web?

I believe a separate distribution. Unpacking the bugger to the main web site
would also be a good option, but that would be a second priority.

I'd throw Tools into the same thing. As a separate distro, you can have a
faster release cycle. ... you could release Idle updates easily and
distinctly from the Python core.

Note: by a "collection on the web", the only view that I have, is that the
collection exists on the python.org web site. Distributed pieces "here and
there" is handled by the Vaults (and similar). The Demo/ directory is a bit
more newbie-ish, so (IMO) it ought to get bundled up somehow since the
Vaults are a bit daunting to find "example of embedding". If the bundle also
happens to reside in an obvious area on python.org? Great.

Cheers,
-g

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

[Greg Stein]
> ...
> I'd throw Tools into the same thing [as Demos]. As a separate distro,
> you can have a faster release cycle. ... you could release Idle
> updates easily and distinctly from the Python core.

Note that Guido gave his blessing for a "wide open" policy on IDLE (== its
own project in SourceForge, and anyone can be a developer). If that's a
success (& I predict it will be, provided someone actually bothers to set up
the SF project!), I'd like to see it spread to Tools and Demos too.

ignoring-the-downsides-cuz-they'll-make-themselves-known-ly y'rs - tim

On Wed, Jun 28, 2000 at 08:07:20PM -0400, Tim Peters wrote:
> [Greg Stein]
> > ...
> > I'd throw Tools into the same thing [as Demos]. As a separate distro,
> > you can have a faster release cycle. ... you could release Idle
> > updates easily and distinctly from the Python core.
>
> Note that Guido gave his blessing for a "wide open" policy on IDLE (== its
> own project in SourceForge, and anyone can be a developer). If that's a
> success (& I predict it will be, provided someone actually bothers to set up
> the SF project!), I'd like to see it spread to Tools and Demos too.

Are you suggesting that IDLE be separate from a Tools/Demo package, or that
the whole bunch be shoved out into the wild?

Hmm... I guess that I don't much have an opinion one way or the other, but
was mostly looking for clarification.

Cheers,
-g

--
Greg Stein, http://www.lyra.org/

[Greg Stein]
> Are you suggesting that IDLE be separate from a Tools/Demo
> package, or that the whole bunch be shoved out into the wild?

There's already an IDLE distribution distinct from Python's:

http://www.python.org/idle/

Note that the IDLE 0.5 there is not what was shipped with 1.5.2; I'm not
clear on why that hasn't been updated to IDLE 0.6 already (suspect just lack
of time).

> Hmm... I guess that I don't much have an opinion one way or the other, but
> was mostly looking for clarification.

I don't have a specific plan in mind either -- just "me too"ing on the idea
that it would do no harm and possibly do real good to let these peripheral
(to the core) things live on their own schedules. I don't see any harm in
including "the latest" snapshot of them with the core distribution,
though -- it's handy for newcomers to get these things without needing to
search for them. I know I learned a lot about Python at the start from
browsing these directories.

> There's already an IDLE distribution distinct from Python's:
>
> http://www.python.org/idle/
>
> Note that the IDLE 0.5 there is not what was shipped with 1.5.2; I'm not
> clear on why that hasn't been updated to IDLE 0.6 already (suspect just lack
> of time).

Yes.

> > Hmm... I guess that I don't much have an opinion one way or the other, but
> > was mostly looking for clarification.
>
> I don't have a specific plan in mind either -- just "me too"ing on the idea
> that it would do no harm and possibly do real good to let these peripheral
> (to the core) things live on their own schedules. I don't see any harm in
> including "the latest" snapshot of them with the core distribution,
> though -- it's handy for newcomers to get these things without needing to
> search for them. I know I learned a lot about Python at the start from
> browsing these directories.

Additionally, it's great for Python on Windows to come with a working
GUI. Pythonwin may be more like Windows, but it's much more fragile
than (recent versions of) IDLE in my experience.

--Guido van Rossum (home page: http://www.python.org/~guido/)