Mailing List Archive: [Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked

[Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked

Jun 24, 2022, 5:25 AM

Post #1 of 6 (379 views)

Hi everyone,

A small update since the last communication from the release team regarding
the status of Python 3.11.0b4.

Unfortunately, even if we have fixed most of the original release blockers
and 4 more that appear during this week, we still have a bunch of release
blockers to deal with. One of them has been reported today.

I would like to release the next beta next week if everything looks good,
but there are also some items that need discussion:.

https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/93910

https://github.com/python/cpython/issues/93516

Ideally we should reach consensus as a team on how to proceed in these
issues. In particular, we should decide collectively what is an acceptable
slowdown, specially looking to the release candidate.

If releasing the next betas is further delayed, I will consider delaying
the full release schedule to accommodate for the delay so users have the
appropriate time to test and validate every release.

Please do not hesitate in reaching out if you have any questions or
concerns or if there is any issue you think we should include in the next
release.

Thanks everyone for your help and understanding. I'm sure 3.11 is going to
be an outstanding release thank to all of you :)

Cheers from cloudy London,
Pablo Galindo Salgado

Re: [Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked [ In reply to ]

mhroncok at redhat

Jul 4, 2022, 7:26 AM

Post #2 of 6 (367 views)

Permalink

On 24. 06. 22 14:25, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> A small update since the last communication from the release team regarding the
> status of Python 3.11.0b4.
>
> Unfortunately, even if we have fixed most of the original release blockers and
> 4 more that appear during this week, we still have a bunch of release blockers
> to deal with. One of them has been reported today.
>
> I would like to release the next beta next week if everything looks good, but
> there are also some items that need discussion...

I was thinking. Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next beta?
Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence neither rc)
versions? Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed
blockers? Assuming those are not regressions that happened after 3.11.0b3 was
released.

--
Miro Hron?ok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok

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Re: [Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked [ In reply to ]

pablogsal at gmail

Jul 4, 2022, 9:53 AM

Post #3 of 6 (367 views)

Permalink

Hi Miro,

>> Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next beta?

Yes.

>> Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence neither
rc)
versions?

Release blockers block also beta releases (if the RM decides so).

>> Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed
blockers?

No, the reason is that fixes can introduce more regressions and those need
to be fixed. If these fixes
are pretty big we would be risking big changes in the RC phase, which we
want to avoid. The idea is that
the fixes to critical problems reported on beta x can be tested on beta x+1.

At the end of the day, this is all subjected to the judgement of the
release manager, and given how many
release blockers we have been getting and how many of these have been
reported past week *after* several
attempts to release the next beta, I have decided to wait.

Additionally, I am considering pushing the full release some months in the
future to allow for more betas, given
how unstable 3.11 is currently.

Pablo Galindo Salgado

On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 at 15:26, Miro Hron?ok <mhroncok@redhat.com> wrote:

> On 24. 06. 22 14:25, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:
> > Hi everyone,
> >
> > A small update since the last communication from the release team
> regarding the
> > status of Python 3.11.0b4.
> >
> > Unfortunately, even if we have fixed most of the original release
> blockers and
> > 4 more that appear during this week, we still have a bunch of release
> blockers
> > to deal with. One of them has been reported today.
> >
> > I would like to release the next beta next week if everything looks
> good, but
> > there are also some items that need discussion...
>
> I was thinking. Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next
> beta?
> Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence neither
> rc)
> versions? Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed
> blockers? Assuming those are not regressions that happened after 3.11.0b3
> was
> released.
>
> --
> Miro Hron?ok
> --
> Phone: +420777974800
> IRC: mhroncok
>
>

Re: [Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked [ In reply to ]

mhroncok at redhat

Jul 4, 2022, 10:03 AM

Post #4 of 6 (367 views)

Permalink

On 04. 07. 22 18:53, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:
> Hi Miro,
>
> >> Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next beta?
>
> Yes.
>
> >> Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence neither rc)
> versions?
>
> Release blockers block also beta releases (if the RM decides so).
>
> >> Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed
> blockers?
>
> No, the reason is that fixes can introduce more regressions and those need to
> be fixed. If these fixes
> are pretty big we would be risking big changes in the RC phase, which we want
> to avoid. The idea is that
> the fixes to critical problems reported on beta x can be tested on beta x+1.
>
> At the end of the day, this is all subjected to the judgement of the release
> manager, and given how many
> release blockers we have been getting and how many of these have been reported
> past week *after* several
> attempts to release the next beta, I have decided to wait.

Thanks. Understood.

> Additionally, I am considering pushing the full release some months in the
> future to allow for more betas, given
> how unstable 3.11 is currently.

Some months sounds pretty big to me. Once the current beta is released, I'd be
great to see some updated release schedule. We have just updated the main
Python version Fedora 37 to 3.11 and we have some deadlines I'd like not to miss.

https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-37/f-37-key-tasks.html
2022-08-23 - Fedora 37 Beta Freeze
2022-10-04 - Fedora 37 Final Freeze

It would be really great to get something ABI stable at Beta Freeze and at
least an RC at the Final Freeze. If that is not realistic, we would need to
consider a revert.

--
Miro Hron?ok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok

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Re: [Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked [ In reply to ]

encukou at gmail

Jul 4, 2022, 10:19 AM

Post #5 of 6 (367 views)

Permalink

On 04. 07. 22 19:03, Miro Hron?ok wrote:
> On 04. 07. 22 18:53, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:
>> Hi Miro,
>>
>> >> Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next beta?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> >> Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence
>> neither rc)
>> versions?
>>
>> Release blockers block also beta releases (if the RM decides so).
>>
>> >> Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed
>> blockers?
>>
>> No, the reason is that fixes can introduce more regressions and those
>> need to be fixed. If these fixes
>> are pretty big we would be risking big changes in the RC phase, which
>> we want to avoid. The idea is that
>> the fixes to critical problems reported on beta x can be tested on
>> beta x+1.
>>
>> At the end of the day, this is all subjected to the judgement of the
>> release manager, and given how many
>> release blockers we have been getting and how many of these have been
>> reported past week *after* several
>> attempts to release the next beta, I have decided to wait.
>
> Thanks. Understood.
>
>> Additionally, I am considering pushing the full release some months in
>> the future to allow for more betas, given
>> how unstable 3.11 is currently.
>
> Some months sounds pretty big to me. Once the current beta is released,
> I'd be great to see some updated release schedule. We have just updated
> the main Python version Fedora 37 to 3.11 and we have some deadlines I'd
> like not to miss.
>
> https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-37/f-37-key-tasks.html
> 2022-08-23 - Fedora 37 Beta Freeze
> 2022-10-04 - Fedora 37 Final Freeze
>
> It would be really great to get something ABI stable at Beta Freeze and
> at least an RC at the Final Freeze. If that is not realistic, we would
> need to consider a revert.

Worse than a one-time revert. With the current schedule, the projects'
testing phases overlap so Fedora can test rebuilding all its Python
software with Python's alphas/betas. If the schedule is adjusted or made
unreliable, Fedora might need to add a six-month delay and rebuild with
final releases -- and find bugs much later.
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Re: [Release] Python 3.11.0b4 is still blocked [ In reply to ]

pablogsal at gmail

Jul 4, 2022, 10:30 AM

Post #6 of 6 (367 views)

Permalink

Hi Petr and Miro,

Thanks for communicating your concerns regarding Fedora and the release
schedule.

>> It would be really great to get something ABI stable at Beta Freeze and
at
least an RC at the Final Freeze. If that is not realistic, we would need to
consider a revert.

I am not sure if there is some typo, but the beta freeze is the first beta.
The ABI is frozen
in the first release candidate, not in beta freeze. We won't get stable ABI
until the first RC
is released.

>> Some months sounds pretty big to me. Once the current beta is released,
I'd be
great to see some updated release schedule. We have just updated the main
Python version Fedora 37 to 3.11 and we have some deadlines I'd like not to
miss.

I understand that in the (still not decided) case that the release is
delayed will be quite
inconvenient for Fedora and other Linux distributions. I will surely take
this into account
when making a decision and I will try to avoid having to fall into this,
but please understand
that the Release Team's responsibility is ensuring a stable release, and
given the events in the
In past weeks, I do not feel comfortable with the current level of testing
so we may require more
betas.

Thanks for your understanding,
Pablo Galindo Salgado

On Mon, 4 Jul 2022 at 18:21, Petr Viktorin <encukou@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 04. 07. 22 19:03, Miro Hron?ok wrote:
> > On 04. 07. 22 18:53, Pablo Galindo Salgado wrote:
> >> Hi Miro,
> >>
> >> >> Are all release blockers automatically blocking the next beta?
> >>
> >> Yes.
> >>
> >> >> Or does it mean this should not be released in final (and hence
> >> neither rc)
> >> versions?
> >>
> >> Release blockers block also beta releases (if the RM decides so).
> >>
> >> >> Would it make sense to release 3.11.0b4 with some not-yet-fixed
> >> blockers?
> >>
> >> No, the reason is that fixes can introduce more regressions and those
> >> need to be fixed. If these fixes
> >> are pretty big we would be risking big changes in the RC phase, which
> >> we want to avoid. The idea is that
> >> the fixes to critical problems reported on beta x can be tested on
> >> beta x+1.
> >>
> >> At the end of the day, this is all subjected to the judgement of the
> >> release manager, and given how many
> >> release blockers we have been getting and how many of these have been
> >> reported past week *after* several
> >> attempts to release the next beta, I have decided to wait.
> >
> > Thanks. Understood.
> >
> >> Additionally, I am considering pushing the full release some months in
> >> the future to allow for more betas, given
> >> how unstable 3.11 is currently.
> >
> > Some months sounds pretty big to me. Once the current beta is released,
> > I'd be great to see some updated release schedule. We have just updated
> > the main Python version Fedora 37 to 3.11 and we have some deadlines I'd
> > like not to miss.
> >
> > https://fedorapeople.org/groups/schedule/f-37/f-37-key-tasks.html
> > 2022-08-23 - Fedora 37 Beta Freeze
> > 2022-10-04 - Fedora 37 Final Freeze
> >
> > It would be really great to get something ABI stable at Beta Freeze and
> > at least an RC at the Final Freeze. If that is not realistic, we would
> > need to consider a revert.
>
> Worse than a one-time revert. With the current schedule, the projects'
> testing phases overlap so Fedora can test rebuilding all its Python
> software with Python's alphas/betas. If the schedule is adjusted or made
> unreliable, Fedora might need to add a six-month delay and rebuild with
> final releases -- and find bugs much later.
> _______________________________________________
> Python-Dev mailing list -- python-dev@python.org
> To unsubscribe send an email to python-dev-leave@python.org
> https://mail.python.org/mailman3/lists/python-dev.python.org/
> Message archived at
> https://mail.python.org/archives/list/python-dev@python.org/message/FRAKKZNIVUL46JLPMRR76H24RSYRQMP7/
> Code of Conduct: http://python.org/psf/codeofconduct/
>