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On 27/10/20 8:24 am, Victor Stinner wrote:
> I would
> rather want to kill the whole concept of "access" time in operating
> systems (or just configure the OS to not update it anymore). I guess
> that it's really hard to make it efficient and accurate at the same
> time...

Also it's kind of weird that just looking at data on the
disk can change something about it. Sometimes it's an
advantage to *not* have quantum computing!

--
Greg
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On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:00 AM Greg Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz> wrote:
>
> On 27/10/20 8:24 am, Victor Stinner wrote:
> > I would
> > rather want to kill the whole concept of "access" time in operating
> > systems (or just configure the OS to not update it anymore). I guess
> > that it's really hard to make it efficient and accurate at the same
> > time...
>
> Also it's kind of weird that just looking at data on the
> disk can change something about it. Sometimes it's an
> advantage to *not* have quantum computing!
>

And yet, it's of incredible value to be able to ask "now, where was
that file... the one that I was looking at last week, called something
about calendars, and it had a cat picture in it". Being able to answer
that kinda depends on recording accesses one way or another, so the
weirdnesses are bound to happen.

ChrisA
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On Mon, Oct 26, 2020, 4:06 PM Chris Angelico <rosuav@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 27, 2020 at 10:00 AM Greg Ewing <greg.ewing@canterbury.ac.nz>
> wrote:
> >
> > On 27/10/20 8:24 am, Victor Stinner wrote:
> > > I would
> > > rather want to kill the whole concept of "access" time in operating
> > > systems (or just configure the OS to not update it anymore). I guess
> > > that it's really hard to make it efficient and accurate at the same
> > > time...
> >
> > Also it's kind of weird that just looking at data on the
> > disk can change something about it. Sometimes it's an
> > advantage to *not* have quantum computing!
> >
>
> And yet, it's of incredible value to be able to ask "now, where was
> that file... the one that I was looking at last week, called something
> about calendars, and it had a cat picture in it". Being able to answer
> that kinda depends on recording accesses one way or another, so the
> weirdnesses are bound to happen.
>

scandir is never going to answer that. Neither is a simple blind "access"
time stored in filesystem metadata.

ChrisA
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>

Greg Ewing writes:

> Also it's kind of weird that just looking at data on the
> disk can change something about it.

The "something about it" *did* change. The world is a dynamic entity,
it does change. What you think is weird is that the metadata change
is recorded.

Note: you can "fix" directory updates by mounting the filesystem r/o.

> Sometimes it's an advantage to *not* have quantum computing!

I think effective encryption is a bigger one, myself. ;-)
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On 10/28/20, Stephen J. Turnbull <turnbull.stephen.fw@u.tsukuba.ac.jp> wrote:
>
> Note: you can "fix" directory updates by mounting the filesystem r/o.

Mounting the filesystem as readonly is the extreme case. Popular Unix
systems support a "noatime" mount option that disables updating file
access times, unless one of the other timestamps changes. In Windows,
NTFS and ReFS support a system setting (but not per-volume) to disable
updating access times -- "NtfsDisableLastAccessUpdate" and
"RefsDisableLastAccessUpdate".
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