Mailing List Archive

Tim,

At 2016-05-05 12:45:44 +0100
Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:

> > On 28 Apr 2016, at 06:37, Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@ipinc.net> wrote:
> >
> > On 4/27/2016 12:37 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> >> Ted Mittelstaedt<tedm@ipinc.net> writes:
> >>> On 4/26/2016 1:37 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> >>>> But let's face it: name-server config is not something that interests a
> >>>> large group of end users. Any feature which is not part of the default
> >>>> OS installation is not worth considering at all.
> >>>
> >>> is that a fact? I suppose you don't use SSH then to access your
> >>> command line servers and devices.<eyeroll>
> >>
> >> I meant to imply a name-server config context. I.e.
> >
> > Understood. I didn't mean to imply that ISP's should tell
> > end users to run RDNSS on Windows. But I did want to dispel any
> > talk that it was impossible.
>
> Well, RDNSS is clearly possible on Windows.
>
> Just like DHCPv6 support is possible on Android.
>
> Meanwhile neither has happened, and this religious war hurts practical deployment.
>
> Will this madness ever end?

Probably. After all, OS X now supports DHCPv6 which it did not for
many years, so even unbelievers may eventually be converted. (Although
I suspect it was more like "okay we will hold our noses and implement
it even though we think it stinks"). ;)

I just discovered the bug report about DHCPv6 on Android, which is
interesting reading for a Friday afternoon. :)

https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=32621

Cheers,

--
Shane

Hi Shane,

I'm not an active member of the community since a lot of the technical
language is over my head, but I care about IPv6 implementation and keep up
to date with IPv6 developments (I was very active in the IGF IPv6 Best
Practice Forum and edited the outcome document
<http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/documents/best-practice-forums/creating-an-enabling-environment-for-the-development-of-local-content/581-igf2015-bpfipv6-finalpdf/file>
).

I immediately recognized the link you sent below. Funny enough, after I
came across this link some time ago, I asked some of the BPF contributors,
including Marco Hogewoning from NCC if it would be prudent to email Lorenzo
and advocate for Android to support DHCPv6.

After drafting the letter and sending it on Jan. 26, I never got an answer
but just resent it to his Google email address that is listed on the forums.

Best,
-Michael
__________________

Michael J. Oghia
Istanbul, Turkey
Journalist & editor
2015 ISOC IGF Ambassador
Skype: mikeoghia
Twitter <https://www.twitter.com/MikeOghia> *|* LinkedIn
<https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeoghia>

On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Shane Kerr <shane@time-travellers.org>
wrote:

> Tim,
>
> At 2016-05-05 12:45:44 +0100
> Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> > > On 28 Apr 2016, at 06:37, Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@ipinc.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 4/27/2016 12:37 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> > >> Ted Mittelstaedt<tedm@ipinc.net> writes:
> > >>> On 4/26/2016 1:37 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> > >>>> But let's face it: name-server config is not something that
> interests a
> > >>>> large group of end users. Any feature which is not part of the
> default
> > >>>> OS installation is not worth considering at all.
> > >>>
> > >>> is that a fact? I suppose you don't use SSH then to access your
> > >>> command line servers and devices.<eyeroll>
> > >>
> > >> I meant to imply a name-server config context. I.e.
> > >
> > > Understood. I didn't mean to imply that ISP's should tell
> > > end users to run RDNSS on Windows. But I did want to dispel any
> > > talk that it was impossible.
> >
> > Well, RDNSS is clearly possible on Windows.
> >
> > Just like DHCPv6 support is possible on Android.
> >
> > Meanwhile neither has happened, and this religious war hurts practical
> deployment.
> >
> > Will this madness ever end?
>
> Probably. After all, OS X now supports DHCPv6 which it did not for
> many years, so even unbelievers may eventually be converted. (Although
> I suspect it was more like "okay we will hold our noses and implement
> it even though we think it stinks"). ;)
>
> I just discovered the bug report about DHCPv6 on Android, which is
> interesting reading for a Friday afternoon. :)
>
> https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=32621
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Shane
>

I think it's important to keep in mind this issue is really
minor for most people.

For most end users all they care
about is that their Spacebook comes up in their browser. Once
the system admin is able to implement a hack/workaround, no matter
how sick it is, and no matter how unfriendly to the network it is,
in their minds it's "fixed"

Residential and small business users that use the ISP's CPE router
simply aren't affected. The CPE is going to hand out
it's own addressing as the DNS server. If clients using it like
Android don't get the v6 DNS server from the CPE, they will just
fall back to v4. The only issue is if the ISP misconfigures their
network and frankly an ISP is being paid to do it right, so I
fail to see why anyone would have any sympathy for the ISP that
does this. So there won't be any participants in this particular
religious war from the ISPs or their customers.

It is only the system admins of corporate networks who are resentful
that they are going to be forced to support DHCPv6 by Microsoft,
and RDNSS by Google, who are the ones who care about it.

And unfortunately the computer and network industry has a long
history of dumping fecal material all over the system admins.

We have proof there is no technical reason DHCPv6 cannot work on
Android. We have proof that there is no technical reason RDNSS
cannot work on Windows. We have this proof because 3rd party
programs exist to bolt those on to those OSes that make them work.

Those programs can be waved around in the boardroom of a Very Big And
Rich company or in the conference rooms of a Very Big And Rich
government, by the CIOs, and understood by the ignorant VP's and
CEOs and such, which has a large enough spend with Microsoft
or a large enough spend with Google, to tell them to "Jump" so that they
will say "How High" and implement RDNSS or DHCPv6 for their
OSes.

This would have happened years ago with NFS if Andrew Tridgell
hadn't come along and written Samba to embarrass Microsoft in how
poorly they implemented the old ATT LanManager networking stack.

All we have to do is affect/interest one of those orgs in this issue
and it will get fixed posthaste.

Ted

On 5/6/2016 6:58 AM, Michael Oghia wrote:
> Hi Shane,
>
> I'm not an active member of the community since a lot of the technical
> language is over my head, but I care about IPv6 implementation and keep
> up to date with IPv6 developments (I was very active in the IGF IPv6
> Best Practice Forum and edited the outcome document
> <http://www.intgovforum.org/cms/documents/best-practice-forums/creating-an-enabling-environment-for-the-development-of-local-content/581-igf2015-bpfipv6-finalpdf/file>).
>
> I immediately recognized the link you sent below. Funny enough, after I
> came across this link some time ago, I asked some of the BPF
> contributors, including Marco Hogewoning from NCC if it would be prudent
> to email Lorenzo and advocate for Android to support DHCPv6.
>
> After drafting the letter and sending it on Jan. 26, I never got an
> answer but just resent it to his Google email address that is listed on
> the forums.
>
> Best,
> -Michael
> __________________
>
> Michael J. Oghia
> Istanbul, Turkey
> Journalist & editor
> 2015 ISOC IGF Ambassador
> Skype: mikeoghia
> Twitter <https://www.twitter.com/MikeOghia> *|* LinkedIn
> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/mikeoghia>
>
> On Fri, May 6, 2016 at 4:33 PM, Shane Kerr <shane@time-travellers.org
> <mailto:shane@time-travellers.org>> wrote:
>
> Tim,
>
> At 2016-05-05 12:45:44 +0100
> Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk <mailto:tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
>
> > > On 28 Apr 2016, at 06:37, Ted Mittelstaedt <tedm@ipinc.net
> <mailto:tedm@ipinc.net>> wrote:
> > >
> > > On 4/27/2016 12:37 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> > >> Ted Mittelstaedt<tedm@ipinc.net <mailto:tedm@ipinc.net>> writes:
> > >>> On 4/26/2016 1:37 AM, Bjørn Mork wrote:
> > >>>> But let's face it: name-server config is not something that
> interests a
> > >>>> large group of end users. Any feature which is not part of
> the default
> > >>>> OS installation is not worth considering at all.
> > >>>
> > >>> is that a fact? I suppose you don't use SSH then to access your
> > >>> command line servers and devices.<eyeroll>
> > >>
> > >> I meant to imply a name-server config context. I.e.
> > >
> > > Understood. I didn't mean to imply that ISP's should tell
> > > end users to run RDNSS on Windows. But I did want to dispel any
> > > talk that it was impossible.
> >
> > Well, RDNSS is clearly possible on Windows.
> >
> > Just like DHCPv6 support is possible on Android.
> >
> > Meanwhile neither has happened, and this religious war hurts
> practical deployment.
> >
> > Will this madness ever end?
>
> Probably. After all, OS X now supports DHCPv6 which it did not for
> many years, so even unbelievers may eventually be converted. (Although
> I suspect it was more like "okay we will hold our noses and implement
> it even though we think it stinks"). ;)
>
> I just discovered the bug report about DHCPv6 on Android, which is
> interesting reading for a Friday afternoon. :)
>
> https://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=32621
>
> Cheers,
>
> --
> Shane
>
>