Daniel,
It's good to see this work moving forward. However, the problem
statement and characterization of the 802.16 MAC that appears in the
charter is not correct:
* 802.16 is in fact capable of native multicasting in the downlink
(see for example 802.16e section 11.9.35)
* 802.16 has a built-in "802.3 Convergence Sublayer" which enables
the point-to-multipoint network to emulate a large LAN (with the
option of broadcast filtering). This faciliitates IPv6 operation
(including ND), but has the (possible) cost of some extra bytes of
overhead.
Below is an amended third paragraph:
" IEEE 802.16(e) is different from existing wireless access
technologies such as IEEE 802.11 or 3G. Accordingly, while 802.16
defines the encapsulation of an IP datagram in an IEEE 802.16 MAC
payload, complete description of IP operation is not present and can
benefit from IETF input and specification.
For example: immediately subsequent to network entry an 802.16
subscriber station has no capability whatsoever for data (as opposed
to management) connectivity. The criteria by which the Base Station
(or other headend elements) set up the 802.16 MAC connections for data
transport is not part of the 802.16 standard and depends on the type
of data services being offered (ie. the set up of transport
connections will be different for IPv4 and IPv6 services).
Additionally - as 802.16 is a point-to-multipoint network - an 802.16
subscriber station is not capable of broadcasting (eg. for neighbor
discovery) or direct communication to the other nodes in the network.
While the built-in LAN emulation feature of 802.16 ("802.3 Convergence
Sublayer") rectifies this, it may involve additional packet overhead.
As for fast mobility, the characteristics of IEEE 802.16e link-layer
operation may require an amendment to the Fast Handover Mobile IPv6
scheme (RFC 4068), something which may be pursued in the MIPSHOP WG."
Regards,
- Jeff Mandin
On 9/27/05, ??? <heejin.jang@samsung.com> wrote:
> The first goal might be to run IPv6 basic operation over 802.16/(e).
> Additionally, based on that, the interaction betwwen 802.16e and IPv6 for the seamless IPv6 mobility could fall in the scope as written in the charter. :)
>
> -from a part of the charter -
> As for fast mobility, the characteristics of IEEE 802.16e link-layer operation may require an amendment to the Fast Handover Mobile IPv6 scheme (RFC 4068), something which may be pursued in the MIPSHOP WG.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> General question - I know that the WiMax forum is working on more things
> than just IP over 802-16e (etc.). You mention, for example, AAA, in the
> description. Are you looking at more than just running IP over 802.16e
> or something more?
>
> John
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >Behalf Of ext Soohong Daniel Park
> >Sent: 27 September, 2005 02:09
> >To: IPv6 WG; IPv6-Ops Area; Int-area ML; IETF ML; MIPSHOP WG; MIP6 WG
> >Cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr
> >Subject: A New BoF [16ng BoF: IPv6 over IEEE 802.16(e) Networks]
> >
> >Folks,
> >
> >We would like to announce a BoF at the upcoming IETF, leading
> >to identify what limitations and considerations apply to IPv6
> >adoption over IEEE 802.16(e), and to propose available
> >solutions. A mailing list is set up at
> >16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr and a proposed description is below.
> >
> >==========================================
> >
> >IPv6 over IEEE 802.16(e) Networks BoF (16ng)
> >
> >
> >CHAIRS:
> >
> >Soohong Daniel Park<soohong.park@samsung.com> Gabriel
> >Montenegro<gabriel_montenegro_2000@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> >DESCRIPTION:
> >
> >Broadband Wireless Access Network addresses the inadequacies
> >of low bandwidth wireless communication for user requirements
> >such as high quality data/voice service, fast mobility, wide
> >coverage, etc. The IEEE 802.16 Working Group on Broadband
> >Wireless Access Standards develops standards and recommended
> >practices to support the development and deployment of
> >broadband Wireless Metropolitan Area Networks. In addition,
> >IEEE 802.16e supports mobility over IEEE 802.16 as an
> >amendment to the IEEE 802.16 specification.
> >
> >Recently, much work is in progress by the WiMAX Forum. In
> >particular, its NWG (Network Working Group) is responsible for
> >the IEEE 802.16(e) network architecture (e.g., IPv4, IPv6,
> >Mobility, Interworking with different networks, AAA, etc). The
> >NWG is thus taking on work at layers above those defined by
> >the IEEE 802 standards (typically limited to the physical and
> >link layers only). Similarly, WiBro (Wireless Broadband) is a
> >Korean effort based on the IEEE 802.16e specification which
> >focuses on the 2.3 GHz spectrum band.
> >
> >IEEE 802.16(e) is different from existing wireless access
> >technologies such as IEEE 802.11 or 3G. Accordingly, the use
> >of IP over an IEEE 802.16(e) link is currently undefined, and
> >will benefit from IETF input and specification. For example,
> >even though Neighbor Discovery has been specified to work over
> >point-to-point type links (e.g., as available in 3G), it
> >applies most naturally to link technologies capable of native
> >multicasing. Thus, it is not yet clear how it would work over
> >IEEE 802.16(e) networks. Even though these supports a PMP
> >(Point-to-Multipoint) mode, there is no provision for
> >multicasting IP packets, hindering the basic standard IPv6
> >operation. An IEEE 802.16(e) connection for IP packet transfer
> >is a point-to-point unidirectional mapping between medium
> >access control layers at the ubscriber station and the base
> >station. This eventually requires convergence protocols to
> >emulate the desired service on network entities such as base
> >stations, which may limit IPv6 features. As for fast mobility,
> >the characteristics of IEEE 802.16e link-layer operation may
> >require an amendment to the Fast Handover Mobile IPv6 scheme
> >(RFC 4068), something which may be pursued in the MIPSHOP WG.
> >
> >The principal objective of the 16ng BoF is to identify what
> >limitations and considerations apply to IPv6 adoption over
> >IEEE 802.16(e), and to propose available solutions. The
> >working group may issue recommendations to IEEE 802.16(e)
> >suggesting protocol modifications for better IP support.
> >
> >In 2006, WiBro deployment will begin, and the WiMAX Forum is
> >slated to specify IPv6 operation over IEEE 802.16(e) in 2006.
> >Accordingly, the working group will work and coordinate with
> >the WiMAX Forum and with the WiBro efforts.
> >
> >
> >MAILING LIST:
> >
> >General Discussion: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr To Subscribe:
> >http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng
> >Archive: http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/pipermail/16ng
> >
> >
> >REFERENCES:
> >
> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jang-mipshop-fh80216e-00.txt
> >http://www.watersprings.org/pub/id/draft-jin-ipv6-over-ieee802.
> >16-00.txt
> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jee-mip4-fh80216e-00.txt
> >IPv6 over IEEE 802.16(e) Networks Problem Statements (coming soon)
> >
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Gabriel & Daniel
> >16ng BoF co-chairs
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mip6 mailing list
> Mip6@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mipshop mailing list
> Mipshop@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop
>
It's good to see this work moving forward. However, the problem
statement and characterization of the 802.16 MAC that appears in the
charter is not correct:
* 802.16 is in fact capable of native multicasting in the downlink
(see for example 802.16e section 11.9.35)
* 802.16 has a built-in "802.3 Convergence Sublayer" which enables
the point-to-multipoint network to emulate a large LAN (with the
option of broadcast filtering). This faciliitates IPv6 operation
(including ND), but has the (possible) cost of some extra bytes of
overhead.
Below is an amended third paragraph:
" IEEE 802.16(e) is different from existing wireless access
technologies such as IEEE 802.11 or 3G. Accordingly, while 802.16
defines the encapsulation of an IP datagram in an IEEE 802.16 MAC
payload, complete description of IP operation is not present and can
benefit from IETF input and specification.
For example: immediately subsequent to network entry an 802.16
subscriber station has no capability whatsoever for data (as opposed
to management) connectivity. The criteria by which the Base Station
(or other headend elements) set up the 802.16 MAC connections for data
transport is not part of the 802.16 standard and depends on the type
of data services being offered (ie. the set up of transport
connections will be different for IPv4 and IPv6 services).
Additionally - as 802.16 is a point-to-multipoint network - an 802.16
subscriber station is not capable of broadcasting (eg. for neighbor
discovery) or direct communication to the other nodes in the network.
While the built-in LAN emulation feature of 802.16 ("802.3 Convergence
Sublayer") rectifies this, it may involve additional packet overhead.
As for fast mobility, the characteristics of IEEE 802.16e link-layer
operation may require an amendment to the Fast Handover Mobile IPv6
scheme (RFC 4068), something which may be pursued in the MIPSHOP WG."
Regards,
- Jeff Mandin
On 9/27/05, ??? <heejin.jang@samsung.com> wrote:
> The first goal might be to run IPv6 basic operation over 802.16/(e).
> Additionally, based on that, the interaction betwwen 802.16e and IPv6 for the seamless IPv6 mobility could fall in the scope as written in the charter. :)
>
> -from a part of the charter -
> As for fast mobility, the characteristics of IEEE 802.16e link-layer operation may require an amendment to the Fast Handover Mobile IPv6 scheme (RFC 4068), something which may be pursued in the MIPSHOP WG.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
> General question - I know that the WiMax forum is working on more things
> than just IP over 802-16e (etc.). You mention, for example, AAA, in the
> description. Are you looking at more than just running IP over 802.16e
> or something more?
>
> John
>
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: ipv6-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On
> >Behalf Of ext Soohong Daniel Park
> >Sent: 27 September, 2005 02:09
> >To: IPv6 WG; IPv6-Ops Area; Int-area ML; IETF ML; MIPSHOP WG; MIP6 WG
> >Cc: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr
> >Subject: A New BoF [16ng BoF: IPv6 over IEEE 802.16(e) Networks]
> >
> >Folks,
> >
> >We would like to announce a BoF at the upcoming IETF, leading
> >to identify what limitations and considerations apply to IPv6
> >adoption over IEEE 802.16(e), and to propose available
> >solutions. A mailing list is set up at
> >16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr and a proposed description is below.
> >
> >==========================================
> >
> >IPv6 over IEEE 802.16(e) Networks BoF (16ng)
> >
> >
> >CHAIRS:
> >
> >Soohong Daniel Park<soohong.park@samsung.com> Gabriel
> >Montenegro<gabriel_montenegro_2000@yahoo.com>
> >
> >
> >DESCRIPTION:
> >
> >Broadband Wireless Access Network addresses the inadequacies
> >of low bandwidth wireless communication for user requirements
> >such as high quality data/voice service, fast mobility, wide
> >coverage, etc. The IEEE 802.16 Working Group on Broadband
> >Wireless Access Standards develops standards and recommended
> >practices to support the development and deployment of
> >broadband Wireless Metropolitan Area Networks. In addition,
> >IEEE 802.16e supports mobility over IEEE 802.16 as an
> >amendment to the IEEE 802.16 specification.
> >
> >Recently, much work is in progress by the WiMAX Forum. In
> >particular, its NWG (Network Working Group) is responsible for
> >the IEEE 802.16(e) network architecture (e.g., IPv4, IPv6,
> >Mobility, Interworking with different networks, AAA, etc). The
> >NWG is thus taking on work at layers above those defined by
> >the IEEE 802 standards (typically limited to the physical and
> >link layers only). Similarly, WiBro (Wireless Broadband) is a
> >Korean effort based on the IEEE 802.16e specification which
> >focuses on the 2.3 GHz spectrum band.
> >
> >IEEE 802.16(e) is different from existing wireless access
> >technologies such as IEEE 802.11 or 3G. Accordingly, the use
> >of IP over an IEEE 802.16(e) link is currently undefined, and
> >will benefit from IETF input and specification. For example,
> >even though Neighbor Discovery has been specified to work over
> >point-to-point type links (e.g., as available in 3G), it
> >applies most naturally to link technologies capable of native
> >multicasing. Thus, it is not yet clear how it would work over
> >IEEE 802.16(e) networks. Even though these supports a PMP
> >(Point-to-Multipoint) mode, there is no provision for
> >multicasting IP packets, hindering the basic standard IPv6
> >operation. An IEEE 802.16(e) connection for IP packet transfer
> >is a point-to-point unidirectional mapping between medium
> >access control layers at the ubscriber station and the base
> >station. This eventually requires convergence protocols to
> >emulate the desired service on network entities such as base
> >stations, which may limit IPv6 features. As for fast mobility,
> >the characteristics of IEEE 802.16e link-layer operation may
> >require an amendment to the Fast Handover Mobile IPv6 scheme
> >(RFC 4068), something which may be pursued in the MIPSHOP WG.
> >
> >The principal objective of the 16ng BoF is to identify what
> >limitations and considerations apply to IPv6 adoption over
> >IEEE 802.16(e), and to propose available solutions. The
> >working group may issue recommendations to IEEE 802.16(e)
> >suggesting protocol modifications for better IP support.
> >
> >In 2006, WiBro deployment will begin, and the WiMAX Forum is
> >slated to specify IPv6 operation over IEEE 802.16(e) in 2006.
> >Accordingly, the working group will work and coordinate with
> >the WiMAX Forum and with the WiBro efforts.
> >
> >
> >MAILING LIST:
> >
> >General Discussion: 16ng@eeca16.sogang.ac.kr To Subscribe:
> >http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/mailman/listinfo/16ng
> >Archive: http://eeca16.sogang.ac.kr/pipermail/16ng
> >
> >
> >REFERENCES:
> >
> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jang-mipshop-fh80216e-00.txt
> >http://www.watersprings.org/pub/id/draft-jin-ipv6-over-ieee802.
> >16-00.txt
> >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jee-mip4-fh80216e-00.txt
> >IPv6 over IEEE 802.16(e) Networks Problem Statements (coming soon)
> >
> >
> >Regards,
> >
> >Gabriel & Daniel
> >16ng BoF co-chairs
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mip6 mailing list
> Mip6@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mip6
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mipshop mailing list
> Mipshop@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/mipshop
>