Mailing List Archive

We here like trouble@ans.net. It's an all-purpose group, like
support, but has a sense of urgency to it.

Nevin


-Nevin Williams
ANS Network Operations



Andrew Partan writes:
>
> > I have found that, with only one unnamed exception, if you write
> > to support@isp.net
>
> How about folks use:
> routing@isp.net
> to reach people?
>
> [.Is there any consensus on various support aliases that an ISP 'should'
> have? noc, help, hostmaster, support, postmaster, routing, info, sales,
> trouble, others?]
> --asp@partan.com (Andrew Partan)
>



- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

| From nanog-owner@merit.edu Thu May 2 02:38:19 1996
| From: Nevin Williams <nevin@ans.net>
| Subject: Re: Out of date contact information
| To: asp@partan.com (Andrew Partan)
| Cc: rob@elite.exodus.net, SEAN@SDG.DRA.COM, nanog@merit.edu
| MIME-Version: 1.0
| Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
| Sender: owner-nanog@merit.edu
|
| We here like trouble@ans.net. It's an all-purpose group, like
| support, but has a sense of urgency to it.
|
| Nevin
|
|
| -Nevin Williams
| ANS Network Operations
|
|
|
| Andrew Partan writes:
| >
| > > I have found that, with only one unnamed exception, if you write
| > > to support@isp.net
| >
| > How about folks use:
| > routing@isp.net
| > to reach people?
| >
| > [.Is there any consensus on various support aliases that an ISP 'should'
| > have? noc, help, hostmaster, support, postmaster, routing, info, sales,
| > trouble, others?]
| > --asp@partan.com (Andrew Partan)
| >
|
|
|
|
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Oops, sorry about that.

Fat Fingers Sean. (trouble@sprint.net)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

This would be something we could probably standardize. I wonder how many folks
have mail aliases like routing@xxx.net, noc@xxx.net, etc to bounce messages
right ways. At the ver least, it'll make /etc/alias file shorter for good
number of people. :)

-dorian (trouble@cic.net)

On Thu, 2 May 1996, Nevin Williams wrote:

> We here like trouble@ans.net. It's an all-purpose group, like
> support, but has a sense of urgency to it.
>
> Nevin
>
>
> -Nevin Williams
> ANS Network Operations
>
>
>
> Andrew Partan writes:
> >
> > > I have found that, with only one unnamed exception, if you write
> > > to support@isp.net
> >
> > How about folks use:
> > routing@isp.net
> > to reach people?
> >
> > [.Is there any consensus on various support aliases that an ISP 'should'
> > have? noc, help, hostmaster, support, postmaster, routing, info, sales,
> > trouble, others?]
> > --asp@partan.com (Andrew Partan)
> >
>
>
>
>

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Obviously biased towards English speaking network users, but here's my
breakdown of common (more than one organization using) role-based e-mail
contact addresses. I've grouped them based on my observations how sites
seem to use them.

Operations
action
noc
root
routing
security
trouble

Protocol
ftp
gopher
hostmaster
mbone
news
ntp
postmaster
usenet
webmaster

Administrative
admin
abuse
billing
info
moreinfo
nic
sales
service
support

And one I wish existed

Informational
fyi - no action or response needed, but you might want to
know about it. Or the "We know its broken, don't bother
calling" address.


If people agree on a common practice for naming role-based accounts, great.

But since many sites still have trouble handling "postmaster" I won't hold
my breath. An up-to-date "real" name, e-mail address, and telephone number
somewhere for a network is still a necessity, even if just a last resort.
I know we've messed up and dropped trouble tickets into a black hole. Its
really tough to tell people their e-mail system isn't working when the
only contact information you have is an e-mail address. When no one
updates the role-base alias when the person leaves, if given the old
contact's name the telephone receptionist can often tell callers the
name of the new person in the position. Asking for the Postmaster may
get you transferred to the shipping department instead of the computer
department. Asking for the MBONE person might get you reported to the
police as an obscene caller.


While we're trying to agree on a common practice, may I suggest each
NANO take a few minutes and do a little spring cleaning.

Check at least the WHOIS contact information for your own Autonomous System
Number(s) for people who no longer work there, out of date phone numbers
or addresses. If you use role-based accounts, could you consider listing
a person as an alternate contact. Maybe make this a twice a year event,
change your clocks, change your smoke detector batteries and update your
WHOIS information.
--
Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO
Affiliation given for identification not representation

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

I have found that, with only one unnamed exception, if you write to support@isp.net
it will get forwarded to the appropriate people. Some places it takes a
while, while others (I must plug ANS here.. they are very well organized
with regards to email delegations) are very quick. Writing directly to
anyone with regards to network issues is not a good thing. Some NSPs have
a specific person that only handles peering contracts.

Rob
Sr. Hole Plugger
Exodus Communications Inc.
(408) 522-8473
rob@exodus.net
>
> I hate to interrupt the ongoing discussion about peering, but I'd
> like to bring up another perennial topic, out-of-date network contact
> information. The larger, and older the company the harder it is
> to find the right contact person.
>
> Sure there are lots, and lots of lists; WHOIS at the InterNIC, lists
> kept by various NAP operators, even in in-addr.arpa TXT records. So
> many lists people have difficulty knowing what to update when people's
> responsibilities change.
>
> Suppose I wanted to find out Sprint's real policy this week, or a government
> agency network such as ESnet's Internet policy; who would I contact? The
> listed contact names don't seem to work, or are out-of-date.
> --
> Sean Donelan, Data Research Associates, Inc, St. Louis, MO
> Affiliation given for identification not representation
>

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

>
> This would be something we could probably standardize. I wonder how many folks
> have mail aliases like routing@xxx.net, noc@xxx.net, etc to bounce messages
> right ways. At the ver least, it'll make /etc/alias file shorter for good
> number of people. :)
>
> -dorian (trouble@cic.net)
>

BITGOD (back in the good old days) Gene had an IETF wg that attempted
to deal with network operations issues; the NJM wg. One of the
things that came out of that august body was the use of role accounts.

If I remember correctly, trouble@site.tld was recommended as the
shotgun address.

This, along with hostmaster & noc floated to the top. http was a long
way off.. :)

--
--bill
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Suggestion:

It would be a good idea to pick up on the ASnnn aliases used in the
days of the NSFnet. The suitable place to host these aliases would
be the registries, since they are the ones handing out ASNs and are
in the position of being able to enforce a pretty obvious
requirement: Anybody injecting routes into the Net -must- have
functioning trouble email addresses. (Some months ago, somebody
(apparently both global and international) were leaking some of our
routes. No normal alias worked and the problem didn't get resolved
until given-name@... came back after the weekend.)

To avoid wasted efforts, the registries should preferably coordinate
to mirror the aliases, so that everybody would be reachable as

ASnnn@any-registry.net

Thus, all of

AS286@ripe.net
AS286@internic.net
AS286@apnic.net

would reach the trouble(some) folks in EUnet.

This would place an extra burden on the registries, but ASN assignment
shouldn't be taken lightly anyway.

--
------ ___ --- Per G. Bilse, Mgr Network Operations Ctr
----- / / / __ ___ _/_ ---- EUnet Communications Services B.V.
---- /--- / / / / /__/ / ----- Singel 540, 1017 AZ Amsterdam, NL
--- /___ /__/ / / /__ / ------ tel: +31 20 6233803, fax: +31 20 6224657
--- ------- 24hr emergency number: +31 20 421 0865
--- Connecting Europe since 1982 --- http://www.EU.net; e-mail: bilse@EU.net
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

Jonathan Heileger and myself are doing some work on issues similar
and inclusive to this, having to do w/ inter-NOC communication, and
we are planning a presentation at the next NANOG.

FYI...

-alan

......... Dorian Kim is rumored to have said:
]
] This would be something we could probably standardize. I wonder how many folks
] have mail aliases like routing@xxx.net, noc@xxx.net, etc to bounce messages
] right ways. At the ver least, it'll make /etc/alias file shorter for good
] number of people. :)
]
] -dorian (trouble@cic.net)
]
] On Thu, 2 May 1996, Nevin Williams wrote:
]
] > We here like trouble@ans.net. It's an all-purpose group, like
] > support, but has a sense of urgency to it.
] >
] > Nevin
] >
] >
] > -Nevin Williams
] > ANS Network Operations
] >
] >
] >
] > Andrew Partan writes:
] > >
] > > > I have found that, with only one unnamed exception, if you write
] > > > to support@isp.net
] > >
] > > How about folks use:
] > > routing@isp.net
] > > to reach people?
] > >
] > > [.Is there any consensus on various support aliases that an ISP 'should'
] > > have? noc, help, hostmaster, support, postmaster, routing, info, sales,
] > > trouble, others?]
] > > --asp@partan.com (Andrew Partan)
] > >
] >
] >
] >
] >
]
]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

You know that all this stuff was standardized long ago at an IETF
working group? The group was called Network Joint Management.
We all agreed that there should be a trouble mailing list for each NOC
and I believe we agreed on AS mailing lists as well. It is a shame,
but I don't believe that that group ever put out an RFC specifying
this. There was also a group that worked on inter-NOC communications
and sharing trouble tickets, etc.

---Cathy

From: Alan Hannan <alan@gi.net>
Subject: Re: Out of date contact information

Jonathan Heileger and myself are doing some work on issues similar
and inclusive to this, having to do w/ inter-NOC communication, and
we are planning a presentation at the next NANOG.

FYI...

-alan

......... Dorian Kim is rumored to have said:
]
] This would be something we could probably standardize. I wonder how many folks
] have mail aliases like routing@xxx.net, noc@xxx.net, etc to bounce messages
] right ways. At the ver least, it'll make /etc/alias file shorter for good
] number of people. :)
]
] -dorian (trouble@cic.net)
]
] On Thu, 2 May 1996, Nevin Williams wrote:
]
] > We here like trouble@ans.net. It's an all-purpose group, like
] > support, but has a sense of urgency to it.
] >
] > Nevin
] >
] >
] > -Nevin Williams
] > ANS Network Operations
] >
] >
] >
] > Andrew Partan writes:
] > >
] > > > I have found that, with only one unnamed exception, if you write
] > > > to support@isp.net
] > >
] > > How about folks use:
] > > routing@isp.net
] > > to reach people?
] > >
] > > [.Is there any consensus on various support aliases that an ISP 'should'
] > > have? noc, help, hostmaster, support, postmaster, routing, info, sales,
] > > trouble, others?]
] > > --asp@partan.com (Andrew Partan)
] > >
] >
] >
] >
] >
]
]

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -