Mailing List Archive

Look at the population of 100G ports at the SIX in Seattle as well. I think
there's a total of maybe four 40G members out of hundreds. 100G really is
the new 10.

On Sun, Aug 27, 2023, 10:56 PM Daniel Marks via NANOG <nanog@nanog.org>
wrote:

> (Enterprise AS for context)
>
> This hasn’t been my experience in the US, however we mostly deal in tier 2
> markets (I.e. Detroit, Miami, Dallas, etc…) and we have plenty of 40G
> private interconnects. I don’t doubt 40G is going away, I’ve just never had
> trouble using it around here.
>
> The only time we’ve been asked to run something other than 40G was because
> we like to run our ports very hot (latency insensitive traffic) and some
> networks do not tolerate consistently high utilization of their ports.
>
> Different story in Japan, it’s 100G+ or nothing. You just have to find
> someone willing to peer with you in the first place…
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Aug 27, 2023, at 23:43, Mark Tinka <mark@tinka.africa> wrote:
>
> ?
>
> On 8/28/23 03:05, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> Well, or they simply found a potential deal on hardware that came with 40
> gig ports. 40 gigs is still a lot of bits to a lot of people.
>
>
> For internal use, sure.
>
> But when connecting to another AS, the chances of them supporting 40Gbps
> in one or more places is inconsistent to slim.
>
> Exchange points may be an exception.
>
> Mark.
>
>

I would agree with that. We've had gear with 40-gig ports for many years (>6)? Never found a CDN or transport network that would do 40.




-----
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP

----- Original Message -----

From: "Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa>
To: "Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Sunday, August 27, 2023 10:33:07 PM
Subject: Re: MX204 Virtual Chassis Setup




On 8/28/23 03:05, Mike Hammett wrote:



Well, or they simply found a potential deal on hardware that came with 40 gig ports. 40 gigs is still a lot of bits to a lot of people.



For internal use, sure.

But when connecting to another AS, the chances of them supporting 40Gbps in one or more places is inconsistent to slim.

Exchange points may be an exception.

Mark.

Sounds more like a Huawei roadmap oops, didn't mean to mention names :)

On Sun, 27 Aug 2023, 07:02 Mark Tinka, <mark@tinka.africa> wrote:

>
>
> On 8/27/23 04:52, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
>
> > I sincerely doubt there is much demand for *new* 40G these days.
> >
> > Look at the population of 40G members on major IXes.
> >
> > People have either one 10G, 2 x 10G, or 100G.
> >
> > 40G was a dead-end 9 years ago and much so more now.
>
> We have customers that sometimes ask for 40Gbps interconnects. I always
> tell our Pre-Sales team that those are the ones who "led the way", back
> in the day. Sadly, they were a bit too early :-).
>
> Mark.
>

>
> I would agree with that. We've had gear with 40-gig ports for many years
> (>6)? Never found a CDN or transport network that would do 40.


Many 40G hardware options never made a ton of economic sense in CDN land
with shared ASIC lanes for 40G and 100G ports. Using anything 40G blocked
the associated 100G port, which were more valuable overall. You also didn't
want to create a massive shuffle later, so it made much more sense to just
use the 100Gs. You gained flexibility in initial deployment at the cost of
inflexibility down the road.

Newer stuff that has a dedicated 100G per port, but can run at either
speed, might actually help 40G deployment since it's just an optic swap.
But 100G optic costs have come down enough I think most people are just
going to go there.



On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 8:20?AM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:

> I would agree with that. We've had gear with 40-gig ports for many years
> (>6)? Never found a CDN or transport network that would do 40.
>
>
>
> -----
> Mike Hammett
> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
> ------------------------------
> *From: *"Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa>
> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>
> *Cc: *nanog@nanog.org
> *Sent: *Sunday, August 27, 2023 10:33:07 PM
> *Subject: *Re: MX204 Virtual Chassis Setup
>
>
>
> On 8/28/23 03:05, Mike Hammett wrote:
>
> Well, or they simply found a potential deal on hardware that came with 40
> gig ports. 40 gigs is still a lot of bits to a lot of people.
>
>
> For internal use, sure.
>
> But when connecting to another AS, the chances of them supporting 40Gbps
> in one or more places is inconsistent to slim.
>
> Exchange points may be an exception.
>
> Mark.
>
>

Similarly, the carrier that employed me when 40G debuted did in fact offer
40G, but did its best to steer customers clear of it. By the time 40G
client optics were available to us from our optical vendors, those same
vendors were already making it clear that we were going to see a lot more
efficiency, both spectrally and economically, with 100G. We took that to
mean that 40G was going to be a stop gap and not much more than that. So
for those ~9 months from when 40G was made available to us until 100G was
ready for market, we were happy to sell 40G to anyone who asked; after
that, not so much (but we would, and did, until the demand essentially
completely disappeared). I imagine most/all of the large carriers were
getting the same messaging. By the time the L2/3 vendors were market ready
with 40G and 100G shortly thereafter, the die had already been cast, even
if none of those vendors saw 40G the same way the optical vendors did.

On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 10:52?AM Tom Beecher <beecher@beecher.cc> wrote:

> I would agree with that. We've had gear with 40-gig ports for many years
>> (>6)? Never found a CDN or transport network that would do 40.
>
>
> Many 40G hardware options never made a ton of economic sense in CDN land
> with shared ASIC lanes for 40G and 100G ports. Using anything 40G blocked
> the associated 100G port, which were more valuable overall. You also didn't
> want to create a massive shuffle later, so it made much more sense to just
> use the 100Gs. You gained flexibility in initial deployment at the cost of
> inflexibility down the road.
>
> Newer stuff that has a dedicated 100G per port, but can run at either
> speed, might actually help 40G deployment since it's just an optic swap.
> But 100G optic costs have come down enough I think most people are just
> going to go there.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2023 at 8:20?AM Mike Hammett <nanog@ics-il.net> wrote:
>
>> I would agree with that. We've had gear with 40-gig ports for many years
>> (>6)? Never found a CDN or transport network that would do 40.
>>
>>
>>
>> -----
>> Mike Hammett
>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL>
>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions>
>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL>
>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix>
>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange>
>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix>
>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/>
>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp>
>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From: *"Mark Tinka" <mark@tinka.africa>
>> *To: *"Mike Hammett" <nanog@ics-il.net>
>> *Cc: *nanog@nanog.org
>> *Sent: *Sunday, August 27, 2023 10:33:07 PM
>> *Subject: *Re: MX204 Virtual Chassis Setup
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/28/23 03:05, Mike Hammett wrote:
>>
>> Well, or they simply found a potential deal on hardware that came with 40
>> gig ports. 40 gigs is still a lot of bits to a lot of people.
>>
>>
>> For internal use, sure.
>>
>> But when connecting to another AS, the chances of them supporting 40Gbps
>> in one or more places is inconsistent to slim.
>>
>> Exchange points may be an exception.
>>
>> Mark.
>>
>>

--
- Dave Cohen
craetdave@gmail.com