Mailing List Archive

On Sat, 3 Feb 2024 09:38:53 -0600, you wrote:

>
>Hi Folks!
>
>
>Using MythTV v 31 (I know ? upgrade coming up) and would like to record
>both channels of a channel which simulcasts. I?ve tried ?This Channel?
>option on neither. both, one, other; sometimes will record both
>(desired), usually only one. I would like to record both as sometimes
>one channel or the other is off the air or bad signal. I?m in the U.S.
>
>
>Primary is WHBF-DT??? PSIP?? 4.1??? RF 4.1 (yes, VHF)???? WHBF
>
>Simulcast is CBS-SD??? PSIP 26.4??? RF 21.4??????????????????? KGCW
>
>
>So what I would like to do, without using the Manual Record option
>because shows tend to move days and times, is record on both stations
>(4.1 and 26.4).
>
>
>Thanks in advance!
>
>Barry

I am guessing that the EPG data for both channels will be exactly the
same. That is generally what causes this problem. If you use a
recording rule that does not use "This Channel", the recording channel
will be worked out by the priorities. But you can then manually add a
override rule for the programme instance on each channel you want to
record and then it will record both. Getting it to automatically
always record both would be difficult. One way might be to run a job
after mythfilldatabase runs that changed the EPG data for one channel
a little, so mythbackend did not recognise the programmes as being the
same. Adding an extra bit of text to the end of the title should do
that (perhaps "C2" for "Copy 2"). Another might be to run a job
regularly (hourly?) that found any recordings being made on that
channel and automatically added the override rules for both instances.

How is mythfilldatabase run? If it is run externally rather than
automatically from mythbackend, it is much easier to run a job
immediately after it to do EPG editing - you just add the extra code
to the script that runs mythfilldatabase.
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Hi Hika!


> You could try disabling duplicate matching. I never tried, but it then
> should record every showing.

That works to get both stations but then I loose MythTV's ability to not
record reruns (which U.S. broadcast networks seem to be doing frequently
lately), as well as possibly recording syndicated reruns on other stations.

Barry

> On Feb 6, 2024, at 04:55, Barry Martin <barry3martin@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Hi Hika!
>
>
>> You could try disabling duplicate matching. I never tried, but it then
>> should record every showing.
>>
>
> That works to get both stations but then I loose MythTV's ability to not record reruns (which U.S. broadcast networks seem to be doing frequently lately), as well as possibly recording syndicated reruns on other stations.
> Barry
> _______________________________________________

Barry you disable duplicates for that particular recording

Infact my issue is “A Show” “About this n that” often occurs on australian epg.
When confronted with “Won’t record, duplicate policy …”
FORGET OLD
does not do so!
James

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On 2/5/24 15:55, Barry Martin wrote:
>
>
> Hi Hika!
>
>
>> You could try disabling duplicate matching. I never tried, but it then
>> should record every showing.
>
> That works to get both stations but then I loose MythTV's ability to
> not record reruns (which U.S. broadcast networks seem to be doing
> frequently lately), as well as possibly recording syndicated reruns on
> other stations.
>
> Barry
>
>
You could try disabling duplicate matching and also selecting "First
Showing" or "New Episode" in Filter options. ( I don't know what the
difference is between these two).

On Mon, Feb 05, 2024 at 08:32:39PM -0500, Peter Bennett wrote:
>
> On 2/5/24 15:55, Barry Martin wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi Hika!
> >
> >
> > > You could try disabling duplicate matching. I never tried, but it then
> > > should record every showing.
> >
> > That works to get both stations but then I loose MythTV's ability to not
> > record reruns (which U.S. broadcast networks seem to be doing frequently
> > lately), as well as possibly recording syndicated reruns on other
> > stations.
> >
> > Barry
> >
> >
> You could try disabling duplicate matching and also selecting "First
> Showing" or "New Episode" in Filter options. ( I don't know what the
> difference is between these two).

First Showing only matches the first time the program appears in the
current guide data. It won't match a showing later in the evening or
later in the week (this is commonly done on some cable channels).
This filter is usually used for sporting or other events where the
"live" showing is the one wanted and not any replays.

New Episode only matches showings that are new in the user's
geographic area. In contrast to First Showing, showings later in the
evening or week are matched as they are still considered new for a few
weeks after the first showing. This filter is usually used to not
match re-runs.

David
--
David Engel
david@istwok.net
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Hi Folks!

Thanks for the suggestions -- some are coming close but have a 'flaw'
which is correct for the option but not working around the simulcast
recording I want.

One that looked like a winner was:

-  Programme Finder --> Select Show, and either of the simulcast stations

-  <Enter>  Menu pops up, select "Record all showings (this channel)"   
Accept through.

-  The Programme Finder Menu now shows it will record on both stations
(4.1, 26.4) but not others (like 6.2).  So far, so good!

-  Go into Manage Recordings > Upcoming Recordings ... and it's only
going to record on 4.1.  "Oddly" doesn't even display 26.4 as a 'earlier
recording' option.


Tried various combinations of New Episodes, First Showing, This Channel
--- none give the desired outcome.

Oh well....  Guess manual recordings for now and tweak the antenna when
the weather warms up.

Barry







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On 06/02/2024 15:45, Barry Martin wrote:
> Hi Folks!
>
> Thanks for the suggestions -- some are coming close but have a 'flaw' which is correct for the
> option but not working around the simulcast recording I want.
>
> One that looked like a winner was:
>
> -  Programme Finder --> Select Show, and either of the simulcast stations
>
> -  <Enter>  Menu pops up, select "Record all showings (this channel)" Accept through.
>
> -  The Programme Finder Menu now shows it will record on both stations (4.1, 26.4) but not others
> (like 6.2).  So far, so good!
>
> -  Go into Manage Recordings > Upcoming Recordings ... and it's only going to record on 4.1.
> "Oddly" doesn't even display 26.4 as a 'earlier recording' option.
>
>
> Tried various combinations of New Episodes, First Showing, This Channel --- none give the desired
> outcome.
>
> Oh well....  Guess manual recordings for now and tweak the antenna when the weather warms up.
>
I suspect the only way to do what you want is to set up another, independant, back end. On that
you'd have one source containing only the channels of interest. Don't forget to remove those
channels from your other backend! Done that way you can turn off the duplicate tests and record
whatever you want.

Or, now you have two backends, record one channel on one backend and the other on the other.

Either way, you would need to import the recordings to your main box (as videos) to view them.

--

Mike Perkins


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On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 16:49:27 +0000, you wrote:

>Either way, you would need to import the recordings to your main box (as videos) to view them.

Recordings from other boxes can be imported as recordings using
mythexport/mythimport.
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On 06/02/2024 21:45, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 16:49:27 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> Either way, you would need to import the recordings to your main box (as videos) to view them.
>
> Recordings from other boxes can be imported as recordings using
> mythexport/mythimport.
>
...so what happens when you import two recordings for the same program? Or a recording for a program
that already exists? Will it take account of the fact they were on different channels?

--

Mike Perkins


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Hoi Mike,

Tuesday, February 6, 2024, 11:58:57 PM, you wrote:

> On 06/02/2024 21:45, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 16:49:27 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>>> Either way, you would need to import the recordings to your main box (as videos) to view them.
>>
>> Recordings from other boxes can be imported as recordings using
>> mythexport/mythimport.
>>
> ...so what happens when you import two recordings for the same
> program? Or a recording for a program
> that already exists? Will it take account of the fact they were on different channels?

> --

> Mike Perkins


With default file-naming it shouldn't be a problem as it is build from
channelnumber and starttime. However you shouldn't remove channels on
either box, only deactivate the ones you do not want that box to
record from. And the channel numbering should be identical on both
boxes.


Tot mails,
Hika mailto:hikavdh@gmail.com

"Zonder hoop kun je niet leven
Zonder leven is er geen hoop
Het eeuwige dilemma
Zeker als je hoop moet vernietigen om te kunnen overleven!"

De lerende Mens

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On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 22:58:57 +0000, you wrote:

>On 06/02/2024 21:45, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 16:49:27 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>>> Either way, you would need to import the recordings to your main box (as videos) to view them.
>>
>> Recordings from other boxes can be imported as recordings using
>> mythexport/mythimport.
>>
>...so what happens when you import two recordings for the same program? Or a recording for a program
>that already exists? Will it take account of the fact they were on different channels?

Of course. Just the same way that MythTV allows you to record the
exact same programme from two simulcast channels. The recordings will
get different recordedid values.
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> On Feb 7, 2024, at 08:28, Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 22:58:57 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> On 06/02/2024 21:45, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 16:49:27 +0000, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Either way, you would need to import the recordings to your main box (as videos) to view them.
>>>
>>> Recordings from other boxes can be imported as recordings using
>>> mythexport/mythimport.
>>>
>> ...so what happens when you import two recordings for the same program? Or a recording for a program
>> that already exists? Will it take account of the fact they were on different channels?
>
> Of course. Just the same way that MythTV allows you to record the
> exact same programme from two simulcast channels. The recordings will
> get different recordedid values

Pardon my ignorance, and for my curiosity …
In my youth simulcast was having an FM sound track, in (gasp) stereo accompany a tv show.
What happens now
James

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On 07/02/2024 00:28, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 22:58:57 +0000, you wrote:
>
>> On 06/02/2024 21:45, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 16:49:27 +0000, you wrote:
>>>
>>>> Either way, you would need to import the recordings to your main box (as videos) to view them.
>>>
>>> Recordings from other boxes can be imported as recordings using
>>> mythexport/mythimport.
>>>
>> ...so what happens when you import two recordings for the same program? Or a recording for a program
>> that already exists? Will it take account of the fact they were on different channels?
>
> Of course. Just the same way that MythTV allows you to record the
> exact same programme from two simulcast channels. The recordings will
> get different recordedid values.
>
But that was the original point, wasn't it? Myth /wouldn't/ allow the OP to record the same program
from two different channels (for different reasons).

But I accept that the recordedid would be different because the channels (callsigns?) were
different, and if the channel ids were different there would be no collision in the file names.

--

Mike Perkins


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On Wed, 7 Feb 2024 09:38:54 +0000, you wrote:

>On 07/02/2024 00:28, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 22:58:57 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/02/2024 21:45, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 6 Feb 2024 16:49:27 +0000, you wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Either way, you would need to import the recordings to your main box (as videos) to view them.
>>>>
>>>> Recordings from other boxes can be imported as recordings using
>>>> mythexport/mythimport.
>>>>
>>> ...so what happens when you import two recordings for the same program? Or a recording for a program
>>> that already exists? Will it take account of the fact they were on different channels?
>>
>> Of course. Just the same way that MythTV allows you to record the
>> exact same programme from two simulcast channels. The recordings will
>> get different recordedid values.
>>
>But that was the original point, wasn't it? Myth /wouldn't/ allow the OP to record the same program
>from two different channels (for different reasons).
>
>But I accept that the recordedid would be different because the channels (callsigns?) were
>different, and if the channel ids were different there would be no collision in the file names.

MythTV does allow Barry to record the same programme from two
different channels - but only by adding an override rule on both
channels. The problem is having to manually add those overrides. What
is wanted is a way to get both copies of the same programme recorded
by just setting a normal recording rule somehow and leaving
mythbackend to do it automatically after that forever, rather than
having to visit all the scheduled recordings on the channel and add
overrides for each programme each day on both of the simulcast
channels.

I have the same situation here with my Sky Open channel, but since
both of those channels now record fine, I do not need to record both.
A few years ago, I did need to record from both, as the DVB-T version
was only SD, so I wanted the DVB-S2 HD version, but recording from
DVB-S2 at the time was unreliable. So I recorded both. But I had to
apply override rules to both copies to do that. Fortunately for me, I
was able to fix the problem that made the DVB-S2 recording unreliable,
and then recorded from that only. Then a year or so later when the
DVB-T channel was upgraded to HD in slightly better quality than the
DVB-S2 version, I just changed my priorities to make the DVB-T version
record after that.
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Mike and Stephen:


May be a bit of confusion – mine and yours – so will retry to explain.


4.1 is Primary WHBF-DT Resolution = 1080i

26.4 is the duplicate CBS-SD Resolution = 480i (per Wikipedia page)

(26.1 = KGCW)


If I select a show for all-shows recording it will usually display 4.1
is to be recorded and 26.4 not to be recorded because an earlier
showing. (By 100^th of a second as the list is compiled?!) If duplicate
options are turned off then would record both stations but also any
repeats later in the week.



<quote>

> MythTV does allow Barry to record the same programme from two
> different channels - but only by adding an override rule on both
> channels. The problem is having to manually add those overrides. What
> is wanted is a way to get both copies of the same programme recorded
> by just setting a normal recording rule somehow and leaving
> mythbackend to do it automatically after that forever, rather than
> having to visit all the scheduled recordings on the channel and add
> overrides for each programme each day on both of the simulcast
> channels.
<end quote>


I think that is stated correctly: I can do automatic recordings on 4.1,
it will not record repeats. I then use the Manual Record menu option to
record the same show on 26.4. (I fairly certain it records repeat showings.)


Of course the problem is ‘prime time’ (U.S: shown in evening) the shows
tend to get moved around, both day of week and time, this the resistance
to a generalized Manual Recording rule for each show.




<quote>

> But I accept that the recordedid would be different because the channels (callsigns?) were different, and if the channel ids were different there would be no collision in the file names.
<end quote>

Well that’s what I thought would happen: I’ve got “WHBF-DT” and “CBS-DT”
(4.1 and 26.4, respectively): two different stations – or at least to us
humans!



OK, did a test on non-simulcast stations:

4.4 Mystery

20.2 KWKB-TV (all 20.x are “KWKB-TV” – don’t receive so didn’t bother to
fix at BE config.)


If I select a show to record on 20.2 (‘record all showings’ without
anything modified) then the Programme Guide (the page coloured blocks
shows listings) will indicate it is recording on 20.2 and 4.4. But when
I go to Upcoming Recordings then only 20.2 is listed – 4.4 isn’t listed
at all, not even as ‘Earlier Recording’.





<quote>

> I suspect the only way to do what you want is to set up another, independant, back end. On that you'd have one source containing only the channels of interest. Don't forget to remove those channels from your other backend! Done that way you can turn off the duplicate tests and record whatever you want.
<end quote>


What about this option: set one of the tuners to record 4.1 only – allow
multiplexing (right term?) so can record the following show separately
(6:59-7:31 – Show A, then 7:29- 8:00 – Show B – need the early start
time because the shows on that network are 20 seconds early). ...Hmm:
says “prefer input <whichever>” rather than ‘only’.

>
> 4.1 is Primary WHBF-DT Resolution = 1080i
> 26.4 is the duplicate CBS-SD Resolution = 480i (per Wikipedia page)
> (26.1 = KGCW)
>

I know I am coming into this in the middle of the stream, but what I am seeing above is maybe a priority problem. If you set the priority of 4.1 high, you should get it instead of 26.4.

I think you can also add in your recording rule to only record HD shows. That would kick in if the recording on 4.1 is marked as HD(It should be.).

Regards

Hi Jay!

> I know I am coming into this in the middle of the stream, but what I am seeing above is maybe a priority problem. If you set the priority of 4.1 high, you should get it instead of 26.4.
>
> I think you can also add in your recording rule to only record HD shows. That would kick in if the recording on 4.1 is marked as HD(It should be.).

The problem is I wish to have both stations recording the same programme
at the same time. ...Your suggestion would probably work if both
stations were recording.