Mailing List Archive

> On 1 Aug 2023, at 5:05 am, Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> It appears that when I upgraded my frontend host from Debian bullseye to bookworm, my myth version changed from 0.31 to 0.33. Specifically, before upgrade it was:
>> MythTV Version : v31.0
>> MythTV Branch :
>> Network Protocol : 91
>> Library API : 31.20200101-1
>> QT Version : 5.11.3
> After upgrade it is:
>> MythTV Version : v33.1-525efb656d6
>> MythTV Branch : fixes/33
>> Network Protocol : 91
>> Library API : 33.20220913-1
>> QT Version : 5.15.8
>
> This happened as I get my mythtv through debian-multimedia.
>
> I need to go back to 0.31 as my backend is still 0.31 and I am reluctant to upgrade (the backend) at this time as it serves a couple of 0.31 frontends that I cannot upgrade at this time.
>
> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in bookworm? Otherwise, I will have to wipe clean and install bullseye and get myth 0.31. If possible, I would like to avoid this route. Please let me know if I have any solution.

I have never used repos for my mythtv setup so I can say following:
the wiki on build from source is quick and easy but you need to have the background skills eg setup the DB eg systemd

James
_______________________________________________
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mythtv-users@mythtv.org
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MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

On 31/07/2023 23:29, James wrote:
>
>
>> On 1 Aug 2023, at 5:05 am, Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It appears that when I upgraded my frontend host from Debian bullseye to bookworm, my myth version changed from 0.31 to 0.33. Specifically, before upgrade it was:
>>> MythTV Version : v31.0
>>> MythTV Branch :
>>> Network Protocol : 91
>>> Library API : 31.20200101-1
>>> QT Version : 5.11.3
>> After upgrade it is:
>>> MythTV Version : v33.1-525efb656d6
>>> MythTV Branch : fixes/33
>>> Network Protocol : 91
>>> Library API : 33.20220913-1
>>> QT Version : 5.15.8
>>
>> This happened as I get my mythtv through debian-multimedia.
>>
>> I need to go back to 0.31 as my backend is still 0.31 and I am reluctant to upgrade (the backend) at this time as it serves a couple of 0.31 frontends that I cannot upgrade at this time.
>>
>> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in bookworm? Otherwise, I will have to wipe clean and install bullseye and get myth 0.31. If possible, I would like to avoid this route. Please let me know if I have any solution.
>
> I have never used repos for my mythtv setup so I can say following:
> the wiki on build from source is quick and easy but you need to have the background skills eg setup the DB eg systemd
>
The problem with building from source, if you are not a developer, is that it takes time to set that
build system up the first time and become familiar with it. Then, by the time you come to do the
next upgrade, you have forgotten how it all works and maybe the system has changed anyway.

For myth, uprgades/updates come sufficiently infrequently that the use of repos such as
deb-multimedia are adequate for the purpose, even for someone like me who *is* a developer. 'apt
update; apt upgrade' is quick and easy and keeps myth in step with the rest of the software.

The OP has also said that he has two frontends he cannot yet upgrade; building from source risks
that, even though he selects the same myth version, something will not be compatible. Using the same
repo on every myth host ensures that all systems are exactly in lockstep.

--

Mike Perkins


_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 4:38?AM Mike Perkins <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk>
wrote:

> On 31/07/2023 23:29, James wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On 1 Aug 2023, at 5:05 am, Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> It appears that when I upgraded my frontend host from Debian bullseye
> to bookworm, my myth version changed from 0.31 to 0.33. Specifically,
> before upgrade it was:
> >>> MythTV Version : v31.0
> >>> MythTV Branch :
> >>> Network Protocol : 91
> >>> Library API : 31.20200101-1
> >>> QT Version : 5.11.3
> >> After upgrade it is:
> >>> MythTV Version : v33.1-525efb656d6
> >>> MythTV Branch : fixes/33
> >>> Network Protocol : 91
> >>> Library API : 33.20220913-1
> >>> QT Version : 5.15.8
> >>
> >> This happened as I get my mythtv through debian-multimedia.
> >>
> >> I need to go back to 0.31 as my backend is still 0.31 and I am
> reluctant to upgrade (the backend) at this time as it serves a couple of
> 0.31 frontends that I cannot upgrade at this time.
> >>
> >> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in bookworm?
> Otherwise, I will have to wipe clean and install bullseye and get myth
> 0.31. If possible, I would like to avoid this route. Please let me know if
> I have any solution.
> >
> > I have never used repos for my mythtv setup so I can say following:
> > the wiki on build from source is quick and easy but you need to have the
> background skills eg setup the DB eg systemd
> >
> The problem with building from source, if you are not a developer, is that
> it takes time to set that
> build system up the first time and become familiar with it. Then, by the
> time you come to do the
> next upgrade, you have forgotten how it all works and maybe the system has
> changed anyway.
>
> For myth, uprgades/updates come sufficiently infrequently that the use of
> repos such as
> deb-multimedia are adequate for the purpose, even for someone like me who
> *is* a developer. 'apt
> update; apt upgrade' is quick and easy and keeps myth in step with the
> rest of the software.
>
> The OP has also said that he has two frontends he cannot yet upgrade;
> building from source risks
> that, even though he selects the same myth version, something will not be
> compatible. Using the same
> repo on every myth host ensures that all systems are exactly in lockstep.
>
> --
>
> Mike Perkins
>

I put together a way to build the packages for Debian 12 for MythTV over on
the MythTV Forum.

https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466

Jim A

On 01/08/2023 11:35, James Abernathy wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 4:38?AM Mike Perkins <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 31/07/2023 23:29, James wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 1 Aug 2023, at 5:05 am, Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> It appears that when I upgraded my frontend host from Debian bullseye
>> to bookworm, my myth version changed from 0.31 to 0.33. Specifically,
>> before upgrade it was:
>>>>> MythTV Version : v31.0
>>>>> MythTV Branch :
>>>>> Network Protocol : 91
>>>>> Library API : 31.20200101-1
>>>>> QT Version : 5.11.3
>>>> After upgrade it is:
>>>>> MythTV Version : v33.1-525efb656d6
>>>>> MythTV Branch : fixes/33
>>>>> Network Protocol : 91
>>>>> Library API : 33.20220913-1
>>>>> QT Version : 5.15.8
>>>>
>>>> This happened as I get my mythtv through debian-multimedia.
>>>>
>>>> I need to go back to 0.31 as my backend is still 0.31 and I am
>> reluctant to upgrade (the backend) at this time as it serves a couple of
>> 0.31 frontends that I cannot upgrade at this time.
>>>>
>>>> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in bookworm?
>> Otherwise, I will have to wipe clean and install bullseye and get myth
>> 0.31. If possible, I would like to avoid this route. Please let me know if
>> I have any solution.
>>>
>>> I have never used repos for my mythtv setup so I can say following:
>>> the wiki on build from source is quick and easy but you need to have the
>> background skills eg setup the DB eg systemd
>>>
>> The problem with building from source, if you are not a developer, is that
>> it takes time to set that
>> build system up the first time and become familiar with it. Then, by the
>> time you come to do the
>> next upgrade, you have forgotten how it all works and maybe the system has
>> changed anyway.
>>
>> For myth, uprgades/updates come sufficiently infrequently that the use of
>> repos such as
>> deb-multimedia are adequate for the purpose, even for someone like me who
>> *is* a developer. 'apt
>> update; apt upgrade' is quick and easy and keeps myth in step with the
>> rest of the software.
>>
>> The OP has also said that he has two frontends he cannot yet upgrade;
>> building from source risks
>> that, even though he selects the same myth version, something will not be
>> compatible. Using the same
>> repo on every myth host ensures that all systems are exactly in lockstep.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mike Perkins
>>
>
> I put together a way to build the packages for Debian 12 for MythTV over on
> the MythTV Forum.
>
> https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466
>
That looks useful and is fairly well documented, thanks. I managed to get about a third of the way
through the process when I tried to do it originally but found the debian documentation either too
confusing or too vague or inapplicable.

I run a VM with apt-cacher-ng on it so my circumstances are slightly different but I can see how to
adapt your methods to that.

I think one of the problems is that everyone's setup is different so using anyone's instructions can
be confusing if you are unfamiliar with software development, building and deployment. Fortunately I
am, though I haven't had to dive this deep for a while.

--

Mike Perkins


_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 11:49?AM Mike Perkins <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk>
wrote:

> On 01/08/2023 11:35, James Abernathy wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 4:38?AM Mike Perkins <
> mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On 31/07/2023 23:29, James wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 1 Aug 2023, at 5:05 am, Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> It appears that when I upgraded my frontend host from Debian bullseye
> >> to bookworm, my myth version changed from 0.31 to 0.33. Specifically,
> >> before upgrade it was:
> >>>>> MythTV Version : v31.0
> >>>>> MythTV Branch :
> >>>>> Network Protocol : 91
> >>>>> Library API : 31.20200101-1
> >>>>> QT Version : 5.11.3
> >>>> After upgrade it is:
> >>>>> MythTV Version : v33.1-525efb656d6
> >>>>> MythTV Branch : fixes/33
> >>>>> Network Protocol : 91
> >>>>> Library API : 33.20220913-1
> >>>>> QT Version : 5.15.8
> >>>>
> >>>> This happened as I get my mythtv through debian-multimedia.
> >>>>
> >>>> I need to go back to 0.31 as my backend is still 0.31 and I am
> >> reluctant to upgrade (the backend) at this time as it serves a couple of
> >> 0.31 frontends that I cannot upgrade at this time.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in bookworm?
> >> Otherwise, I will have to wipe clean and install bullseye and get myth
> >> 0.31. If possible, I would like to avoid this route. Please let me know
> if
> >> I have any solution.
> >>>
> >>> I have never used repos for my mythtv setup so I can say following:
> >>> the wiki on build from source is quick and easy but you need to have
> the
> >> background skills eg setup the DB eg systemd
> >>>
> >> The problem with building from source, if you are not a developer, is
> that
> >> it takes time to set that
> >> build system up the first time and become familiar with it. Then, by the
> >> time you come to do the
> >> next upgrade, you have forgotten how it all works and maybe the system
> has
> >> changed anyway.
> >>
> >> For myth, uprgades/updates come sufficiently infrequently that the use
> of
> >> repos such as
> >> deb-multimedia are adequate for the purpose, even for someone like me
> who
> >> *is* a developer. 'apt
> >> update; apt upgrade' is quick and easy and keeps myth in step with the
> >> rest of the software.
> >>
> >> The OP has also said that he has two frontends he cannot yet upgrade;
> >> building from source risks
> >> that, even though he selects the same myth version, something will not
> be
> >> compatible. Using the same
> >> repo on every myth host ensures that all systems are exactly in
> lockstep.
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Mike Perkins
> >>
> >
> > I put together a way to build the packages for Debian 12 for MythTV over
> on
> > the MythTV Forum.
> >
> > https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466
> >
> That looks useful and is fairly well documented, thanks. I managed to get
> about a third of the way
> through the process when I tried to do it originally but found the debian
> documentation either too
> confusing or too vague or inapplicable.
>
> I run a VM with apt-cacher-ng on it so my circumstances are slightly
> different but I can see how to
> adapt your methods to that.
>
> I think one of the problems is that everyone's setup is different so using
> anyone's instructions can
> be confusing if you are unfamiliar with software development, building and
> deployment. Fortunately I
> am, though I haven't had to dive this deep for a while.
>
> --
>
> Mike Perkins


I like using posts in Mythtv Forum to document what I do. That way I can
repeat 6 months from now when I've totally forgotten how I did it.
Invariably any scripts or notes will have gotten lost in that time frame.
The plus is that maybe someone else can benefit from it. I find the
editing and formatting on the forum very easy compared to whatever arcane
codes are used in wiki's. My 72 year old brain can deal with that crap.
It's too much like Workperfect back on DOS.

Jim A

On 8/1/23 05:35, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 4:38?AM Mike Perkins
> <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk> wrote:
>
> On 31/07/2023 23:29, James wrote:
> >
> >
> >> On 1 Aug 2023, at 5:05 am, Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> It appears that when I upgraded my frontend host from Debian
> bullseye to bookworm, my myth version changed from 0.31 to 0.33.
> Specifically, before upgrade it was:
> >>> MythTV Version : v31.0
> >>> MythTV Branch :
> >>> Network Protocol : 91
> >>> Library API : 31.20200101-1
> >>> QT Version : 5.11.3
> >> After upgrade it is:
> >>> MythTV Version : v33.1-525efb656d6
> >>> MythTV Branch : fixes/33
> >>> Network Protocol : 91
> >>> Library API : 33.20220913-1
> >>> QT Version : 5.15.8
> >>
> >> This happened as I get my mythtv through debian-multimedia.
> >>
> >> I need to go back to 0.31 as my backend is still 0.31 and I am
> reluctant to upgrade (the backend) at this time as it serves a
> couple of 0.31 frontends that I cannot upgrade at this time.
> >>
> >> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in
> bookworm? Otherwise, I will have to wipe clean and install
> bullseye and get myth 0.31. If possible, I would like to avoid
> this route. Please let me know if I have any solution.
> >
> > I have never used repos for my mythtv setup so I can say following:
> > the wiki on build from source is quick and easy but you need to
> have the background skills eg setup the DB eg systemd
> >
> The problem with building from source, if you are not a developer,
> is that it takes time to set that
> build system up the first time and become familiar with it. Then,
> by the time you come to do the
> next upgrade, you have forgotten how it all works and maybe the
> system has changed anyway.
>
> For myth, uprgades/updates come sufficiently infrequently that the
> use of repos such as
> deb-multimedia are adequate for the purpose, even for someone like
> me who *is* a developer. 'apt
> update; apt upgrade' is quick and easy and keeps myth in step with
> the rest of the software.
>
> The OP has also said that he has two frontends he cannot yet
> upgrade; building from source risks
> that, even though he selects the same myth version, something will
> not be compatible. Using the same
> repo on every myth host ensures that all systems are exactly in
> lockstep.
>
> --
>
> Mike Perkins
>
>
> I put together a way to build the packages for Debian 12 for MythTV
> over on the MythTV Forum.
>
> https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466
> <https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466>
>
> Jim A
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
Jim,

  Sorry if this is obvious, but I want to be sure. I thin you are
suggesting that I follow your link and the steps in it to build 0.31
.deb packages for 31 and install it in bookworm. Is this correct? I will
give it a try over coming weekend.

   Someone suggested pinning myth to 31 before switching from bullseye
to bookworm. Do you think that will work? I ask because I have a couple
of other hosts running 31 in bullseye and eventually I will have to
upgrade them to bookworm. So, wondering, if there is an easy way out of
this upgrade issue.  Of course, moving to myth 33 is the right move, but
prefer to wait on that till I know I can live with a week of downtime,
if things go wrong.

Regards
Ramesh

On Tue, Aug 1, 2023, 4:51 PM Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 8/1/23 05:35, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 4:38?AM Mike Perkins <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 31/07/2023 23:29, James wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 1 Aug 2023, at 5:05 am, Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> It appears that when I upgraded my frontend host from Debian bullseye
>> to bookworm, my myth version changed from 0.31 to 0.33. Specifically,
>> before upgrade it was:
>> >>> MythTV Version : v31.0
>> >>> MythTV Branch :
>> >>> Network Protocol : 91
>> >>> Library API : 31.20200101-1
>> >>> QT Version : 5.11.3
>> >> After upgrade it is:
>> >>> MythTV Version : v33.1-525efb656d6
>> >>> MythTV Branch : fixes/33
>> >>> Network Protocol : 91
>> >>> Library API : 33.20220913-1
>> >>> QT Version : 5.15.8
>> >>
>> >> This happened as I get my mythtv through debian-multimedia.
>> >>
>> >> I need to go back to 0.31 as my backend is still 0.31 and I am
>> reluctant to upgrade (the backend) at this time as it serves a couple of
>> 0.31 frontends that I cannot upgrade at this time.
>> >>
>> >> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in bookworm?
>> Otherwise, I will have to wipe clean and install bullseye and get myth
>> 0.31. If possible, I would like to avoid this route. Please let me know if
>> I have any solution.
>> >
>> > I have never used repos for my mythtv setup so I can say following:
>> > the wiki on build from source is quick and easy but you need to have
>> the background skills eg setup the DB eg systemd
>> >
>> The problem with building from source, if you are not a developer, is
>> that it takes time to set that
>> build system up the first time and become familiar with it. Then, by the
>> time you come to do the
>> next upgrade, you have forgotten how it all works and maybe the system
>> has changed anyway.
>>
>> For myth, uprgades/updates come sufficiently infrequently that the use of
>> repos such as
>> deb-multimedia are adequate for the purpose, even for someone like me who
>> *is* a developer. 'apt
>> update; apt upgrade' is quick and easy and keeps myth in step with the
>> rest of the software.
>>
>> The OP has also said that he has two frontends he cannot yet upgrade;
>> building from source risks
>> that, even though he selects the same myth version, something will not be
>> compatible. Using the same
>> repo on every myth host ensures that all systems are exactly in lockstep.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mike Perkins
>>
>
> I put together a way to build the packages for Debian 12 for MythTV over
> on the MythTV Forum.
>
> https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466
>
> Jim A
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing listmythtv-users@mythtv.orghttp://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-usershttp://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
> Jim,
>
> Sorry if this is obvious, but I want to be sure. I thin you are
> suggesting that I follow your link and the steps in it to build 0.31 .deb
> packages for 31 and install it in bookworm. Is this correct? I will give it
> a try over coming weekend.
>
> Someone suggested pinning myth to 31 before switching from bullseye to
> bookworm. Do you think that will work? I ask because I have a couple of
> other hosts running 31 in bullseye and eventually I will have to upgrade
> them to bookworm. So, wondering, if there is an easy way out of this
> upgrade issue. Of course, moving to myth 33 is the right move, but prefer
> to wait on that till I know I can live with a week of downtime, if things
> go wrong.
>
> Regards
> Ramesh
>

You could try to build the 31 packages for mythtv on bookworm. I have no
idea if it would work. I haven't used v31 since the day v32 was released.
I'm on v34 i.e. Master. You could spin up VM and try it.

Jim A

On 01/08/2023 21:51, Ram Ramesh wrote:
> On 8/1/23 05:35, James Abernathy wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 4:38?AM Mike Perkins <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>>     On 31/07/2023 23:29, James wrote:
>>     >
>>     >
>>     >> On 1 Aug 2023, at 5:05 am, Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com>
>>     wrote:
>>     >>
>>     >> It appears that when I upgraded my frontend host from Debian
>>     bullseye to bookworm, my myth version changed from 0.31 to 0.33.
>>     Specifically, before upgrade it was:
>>     >>> MythTV Version : v31.0
>>     >>> MythTV Branch :
>>     >>> Network Protocol : 91
>>     >>> Library API : 31.20200101-1
>>     >>> QT Version : 5.11.3
>>     >> After upgrade it is:
>>     >>> MythTV Version : v33.1-525efb656d6
>>     >>> MythTV Branch : fixes/33
>>     >>> Network Protocol : 91
>>     >>> Library API : 33.20220913-1
>>     >>> QT Version : 5.15.8
>>     >>
>>     >> This happened as I get my mythtv through debian-multimedia.
>>     >>
>>     >> I need to go back to 0.31 as my backend is still 0.31 and I am
>>     reluctant to upgrade (the backend) at this time as it serves a
>>     couple of 0.31 frontends that I cannot upgrade at this time.
>>     >>
>>     >> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in
>>     bookworm? Otherwise, I will have to wipe clean and install
>>     bullseye and get myth 0.31. If possible, I would like to avoid
>>     this route. Please let me know if I have any solution.
>>     >
>>     > I have never used repos for my mythtv setup so I can say following:
>>     > the wiki on build from source is quick and easy but you need to
>>     have the background skills eg setup the DB eg systemd
>>     >
>>     The problem with building from source, if you are not a developer,
>>     is that it takes time to set that
>>     build system up the first time and become familiar with it. Then,
>>     by the time you come to do the
>>     next upgrade, you have forgotten how it all works and maybe the
>>     system has changed anyway.
>>
>>     For myth, uprgades/updates come sufficiently infrequently that the
>>     use of repos such as
>>     deb-multimedia are adequate for the purpose, even for someone like
>>     me who *is* a developer. 'apt
>>     update; apt upgrade' is quick and easy and keeps myth in step with
>>     the rest of the software.
>>
>>     The OP has also said that he has two frontends he cannot yet
>>     upgrade; building from source risks
>>     that, even though he selects the same myth version, something will
>>     not be compatible. Using the same
>>     repo on every myth host ensures that all systems are exactly in
>>     lockstep.
>>
>>     --
>>     Mike Perkins
>>
>>
>> I put together a way to build the packages for Debian 12 for MythTV over on the MythTV Forum.
>>
>> https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466
>> <https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466>
>>
>> Jim A
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
> Jim,
>
>   Sorry if this is obvious, but I want to be sure. I thin you are suggesting that I follow your
> link and the steps in it to build 0.31 .deb packages for 31 and install it in bookworm. Is this
> correct? I will give it a try over coming weekend.
>
>    Someone suggested pinning myth to 31 before switching from bullseye to bookworm. Do you think
> that will work? I ask because I have a couple of other hosts running 31 in bullseye and eventually I
> will have to upgrade them to bookworm. So, wondering, if there is an easy way out of this upgrade
> issue.  Of course, moving to myth 33 is the right move, but prefer to wait on that till I know I can
> live with a week of downtime, if things go wrong.
>
If I can offer a word of caution. When I... upgraded? I actually backed everything up, swapped out
the system disks and did a fresh install - that way, if it all went pear-shaped, I could (in theory)
just put the old disks back and think again.

Going from bullseye to bookworm I /did/ actually follow the Debian upgrade instructions for one
non-mythtv host and it was the most frustrating few hours of my life that I'll never get back again.
I'm about to nuke that box and do a fresh install.

TL;DR: don't upgrade, do fresh installs if you can.

--

Mike Perkins


_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

On 01/08/2023 19:46, James Abernathy wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 11:49?AM Mike Perkins <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> On 01/08/2023 11:35, James Abernathy wrote:
>>> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 4:38?AM Mike Perkins <
>> mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 31/07/2023 23:29, James wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 1 Aug 2023, at 5:05 am, Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It appears that when I upgraded my frontend host from Debian bullseye
>>>> to bookworm, my myth version changed from 0.31 to 0.33. Specifically,
>>>> before upgrade it was:
>>>>>>> MythTV Version : v31.0
>>>>>>> MythTV Branch :
>>>>>>> Network Protocol : 91
>>>>>>> Library API : 31.20200101-1
>>>>>>> QT Version : 5.11.3
>>>>>> After upgrade it is:
>>>>>>> MythTV Version : v33.1-525efb656d6
>>>>>>> MythTV Branch : fixes/33
>>>>>>> Network Protocol : 91
>>>>>>> Library API : 33.20220913-1
>>>>>>> QT Version : 5.15.8
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This happened as I get my mythtv through debian-multimedia.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I need to go back to 0.31 as my backend is still 0.31 and I am
>>>> reluctant to upgrade (the backend) at this time as it serves a couple of
>>>> 0.31 frontends that I cannot upgrade at this time.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in bookworm?
>>>> Otherwise, I will have to wipe clean and install bullseye and get myth
>>>> 0.31. If possible, I would like to avoid this route. Please let me know
>> if
>>>> I have any solution.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have never used repos for my mythtv setup so I can say following:
>>>>> the wiki on build from source is quick and easy but you need to have
>> the
>>>> background skills eg setup the DB eg systemd
>>>>>
>>>> The problem with building from source, if you are not a developer, is
>> that
>>>> it takes time to set that
>>>> build system up the first time and become familiar with it. Then, by the
>>>> time you come to do the
>>>> next upgrade, you have forgotten how it all works and maybe the system
>> has
>>>> changed anyway.
>>>>
>>>> For myth, uprgades/updates come sufficiently infrequently that the use
>> of
>>>> repos such as
>>>> deb-multimedia are adequate for the purpose, even for someone like me
>> who
>>>> *is* a developer. 'apt
>>>> update; apt upgrade' is quick and easy and keeps myth in step with the
>>>> rest of the software.
>>>>
>>>> The OP has also said that he has two frontends he cannot yet upgrade;
>>>> building from source risks
>>>> that, even though he selects the same myth version, something will not
>> be
>>>> compatible. Using the same
>>>> repo on every myth host ensures that all systems are exactly in
>> lockstep.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Mike Perkins
>>>>
>>>
>>> I put together a way to build the packages for Debian 12 for MythTV over
>> on
>>> the MythTV Forum.
>>>
>>> https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466
>>>
>> That looks useful and is fairly well documented, thanks. I managed to get
>> about a third of the way
>> through the process when I tried to do it originally but found the debian
>> documentation either too
>> confusing or too vague or inapplicable.
>>
>> I run a VM with apt-cacher-ng on it so my circumstances are slightly
>> different but I can see how to
>> adapt your methods to that.
>>
>> I think one of the problems is that everyone's setup is different so using
>> anyone's instructions can
>> be confusing if you are unfamiliar with software development, building and
>> deployment. Fortunately I
>> am, though I haven't had to dive this deep for a while.
>>
>> --
>>
>> Mike Perkins
>
>
> I like using posts in Mythtv Forum to document what I do. That way I can
> repeat 6 months from now when I've totally forgotten how I did it.
> Invariably any scripts or notes will have gotten lost in that time frame.
> The plus is that maybe someone else can benefit from it. I find the
> editing and formatting on the forum very easy compared to whatever arcane
> codes are used in wiki's. My 72 year old brain can deal with that crap.
> It's too much like Workperfect back on DOS.
>
Of course I just pulled up your referenced forum page, printed it off and added it to my mythtv
folder :)

--

Mike Perkins


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On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 6:10?PM Mike Perkins <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk>
wrote:

> On 01/08/2023 21:51, Ram Ramesh wrote:
> > On 8/1/23 05:35, James Abernathy wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 4:38?AM Mike Perkins <
> mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >> On 31/07/2023 23:29, James wrote:
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> On 1 Aug 2023, at 5:05 am, Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> It appears that when I upgraded my frontend host from Debian
> >> bullseye to bookworm, my myth version changed from 0.31 to 0.33.
> >> Specifically, before upgrade it was:
> >> >>> MythTV Version : v31.0
> >> >>> MythTV Branch :
> >> >>> Network Protocol : 91
> >> >>> Library API : 31.20200101-1
> >> >>> QT Version : 5.11.3
> >> >> After upgrade it is:
> >> >>> MythTV Version : v33.1-525efb656d6
> >> >>> MythTV Branch : fixes/33
> >> >>> Network Protocol : 91
> >> >>> Library API : 33.20220913-1
> >> >>> QT Version : 5.15.8
> >> >>
> >> >> This happened as I get my mythtv through debian-multimedia.
> >> >>
> >> >> I need to go back to 0.31 as my backend is still 0.31 and I am
> >> reluctant to upgrade (the backend) at this time as it serves a
> >> couple of 0.31 frontends that I cannot upgrade at this time.
> >> >>
> >> >> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in
> >> bookworm? Otherwise, I will have to wipe clean and install
> >> bullseye and get myth 0.31. If possible, I would like to avoid
> >> this route. Please let me know if I have any solution.
> >> >
> >> > I have never used repos for my mythtv setup so I can say
> following:
> >> > the wiki on build from source is quick and easy but you need to
> >> have the background skills eg setup the DB eg systemd
> >> >
> >> The problem with building from source, if you are not a developer,
> >> is that it takes time to set that
> >> build system up the first time and become familiar with it. Then,
> >> by the time you come to do the
> >> next upgrade, you have forgotten how it all works and maybe the
> >> system has changed anyway.
> >>
> >> For myth, uprgades/updates come sufficiently infrequently that the
> >> use of repos such as
> >> deb-multimedia are adequate for the purpose, even for someone like
> >> me who *is* a developer. 'apt
> >> update; apt upgrade' is quick and easy and keeps myth in step with
> >> the rest of the software.
> >>
> >> The OP has also said that he has two frontends he cannot yet
> >> upgrade; building from source risks
> >> that, even though he selects the same myth version, something will
> >> not be compatible. Using the same
> >> repo on every myth host ensures that all systems are exactly in
> >> lockstep.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Mike Perkins
> >>
> >>
> >> I put together a way to build the packages for Debian 12 for MythTV
> over on the MythTV Forum.
> >>
> >> https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466
> >> <https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466>
> >>
> >> Jim A
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mythtv-users mailing list
> >> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> >> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> >> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
> > Jim,
> >
> > Sorry if this is obvious, but I want to be sure. I thin you are
> suggesting that I follow your
> > link and the steps in it to build 0.31 .deb packages for 31 and install
> it in bookworm. Is this
> > correct? I will give it a try over coming weekend.
> >
> > Someone suggested pinning myth to 31 before switching from bullseye
> to bookworm. Do you think
> > that will work? I ask because I have a couple of other hosts running 31
> in bullseye and eventually I
> > will have to upgrade them to bookworm. So, wondering, if there is an
> easy way out of this upgrade
> > issue. Of course, moving to myth 33 is the right move, but prefer to
> wait on that till I know I can
> > live with a week of downtime, if things go wrong.
> >
> If I can offer a word of caution. When I... upgraded? I actually backed
> everything up, swapped out
> the system disks and did a fresh install - that way, if it all went
> pear-shaped, I could (in theory)
> just put the old disks back and think again.
>
> Going from bullseye to bookworm I /did/ actually follow the Debian upgrade
> instructions for one
> non-mythtv host and it was the most frustrating few hours of my life that
> I'll never get back again.
> I'm about to nuke that box and do a fresh install.
>
> TL;DR: don't upgrade, do fresh installs if you can.
>
> --
>
> Mike Perkins
>

Starting fresh with a new ssd is what I always do. Now that 1TB m2.NVME
SSDs are sub $50, I keep a stack in my lab.

Jim A

On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 9:06?PM Ram Ramesh <rramesh2400@gmail.com> wrote:

> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in bookworm?

Yes, but be aware that the upgrade also changed
the database schema, so you will need to restore
from the backup that the upgrade made (and if
you do not have it, or it was not properly taken,
you will have to start with an entirely new database),
and any activity (including recording) that has
happened since the upgrade will need to involve
some manual adjustments.

I would recommend you step back and instead
consider upgrading those v31 frontends, as
you will need to do that at some point anyway.
_______________________________________________
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mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

On 8/1/23 17:19, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 6:10?PM Mike Perkins
> <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk> wrote:
>
> On 01/08/2023 21:51, Ram Ramesh wrote:
> > On 8/1/23 05:35, James Abernathy wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, Aug 1, 2023 at 4:38?AM Mike Perkins
> <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk> wrote:
> >>
> >>     On 31/07/2023 23:29, James wrote:
> >>     >
> >>     >
> >>     >> On 1 Aug 2023, at 5:05 am, Ram Ramesh
> <rramesh2400@gmail.com>
> >>     wrote:
> >>     >>
> >>     >> It appears that when I upgraded my frontend host from Debian
> >>     bullseye to bookworm, my myth version changed from 0.31 to
> 0.33.
> >>     Specifically, before upgrade it was:
> >>     >>> MythTV Version : v31.0
> >>     >>> MythTV Branch :
> >>     >>> Network Protocol : 91
> >>     >>> Library API : 31.20200101-1
> >>     >>> QT Version : 5.11.3
> >>     >> After upgrade it is:
> >>     >>> MythTV Version : v33.1-525efb656d6
> >>     >>> MythTV Branch : fixes/33
> >>     >>> Network Protocol : 91
> >>     >>> Library API : 33.20220913-1
> >>     >>> QT Version : 5.15.8
> >>     >>
> >>     >> This happened as I get my mythtv through debian-multimedia.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> I need to go back to 0.31 as my backend is still 0.31
> and I am
> >>     reluctant to upgrade (the backend) at this time as it serves a
> >>     couple of 0.31 frontends that I cannot upgrade at this time.
> >>     >>
> >>     >> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in
> >>     bookworm? Otherwise, I will have to wipe clean and install
> >>     bullseye and get myth 0.31. If possible, I would like to avoid
> >>     this route. Please let me know if I have any solution.
> >>     >
> >>     > I have never used repos for my mythtv setup so I can say
> following:
> >>     > the wiki on build from source is quick and easy but you
> need to
> >>     have the background skills eg setup the DB eg systemd
> >>     >
> >>     The problem with building from source, if you are not a
> developer,
> >>     is that it takes time to set that
> >>     build system up the first time and become familiar with it.
> Then,
> >>     by the time you come to do the
> >>     next upgrade, you have forgotten how it all works and maybe the
> >>     system has changed anyway.
> >>
> >>     For myth, uprgades/updates come sufficiently infrequently
> that the
> >>     use of repos such as
> >>     deb-multimedia are adequate for the purpose, even for
> someone like
> >>     me who *is* a developer. 'apt
> >>     update; apt upgrade' is quick and easy and keeps myth in
> step with
> >>     the rest of the software.
> >>
> >>     The OP has also said that he has two frontends he cannot yet
> >>     upgrade; building from source risks
> >>     that, even though he selects the same myth version,
> something will
> >>     not be compatible. Using the same
> >>     repo on every myth host ensures that all systems are exactly in
> >>     lockstep.
> >>
> >>     --
> >>     Mike Perkins
> >>
> >>
> >> I put together a way to build the packages for Debian 12 for
> MythTV over on the MythTV Forum.
> >>
> >> https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466
> <https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466>
> >> <https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466
> <https://forum.mythtv.org/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=5466>>
> >>
> >> Jim A
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> mythtv-users mailing list
> >> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> >> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> >> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
> > Jim,
> >
> >    Sorry if this is obvious, but I want to be sure. I thin you
> are suggesting that I follow your
> > link and the steps in it to build 0.31 .deb packages for 31 and
> install it in bookworm. Is this
> > correct? I will give it a try over coming weekend.
> >
> >     Someone suggested pinning myth to 31 before switching from
> bullseye to bookworm. Do you think
> > that will work? I ask because I have a couple of other hosts
> running 31 in bullseye and eventually I
> > will have to upgrade them to bookworm. So, wondering, if there
> is an easy way out of this upgrade
> > issue.  Of course, moving to myth 33 is the right move, but
> prefer to wait on that till I know I can
> > live with a week of downtime, if things go wrong.
> >
> If I can offer a word of caution. When I... upgraded? I actually
> backed everything up, swapped out
> the system disks and did a fresh install - that way, if it all
> went pear-shaped, I could (in theory)
> just put the old disks back and think again.
>
> Going from bullseye to bookworm I /did/ actually follow the Debian
> upgrade instructions for one
> non-mythtv host and it was the most frustrating few hours of my
> life that I'll never get back again.
> I'm about to nuke that box and do a fresh install.
>
> TL;DR: don't upgrade, do fresh installs if you can.
>
> --
>
> Mike Perkins
>
>
> Starting fresh with a new ssd is what I always do.  Now that 1TB
> m2.NVME SSDs are sub $50, I keep a stack in my lab.
>
> Jim A
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
Understood. I am careful. This was just a proxy (nonproduction) frontend
that I can do any updates without fear.  Once I learnt I screwed up, I
wanted to learn from the experts to see if it can be fixed. After all,
one can never be sure bigger mistakes will not be made somewhere else.
Recovering from bad situation should be something one should always
explore. So, I started digging deeper. I am still interested in fixing
this machine, but I will sleep well doing so.

Unlike frontend, you cannot have duplicate backends. So, I am very
worried each time I need to do any upgrade to my backend server. It is
said that if you backup database and restore and keep all recordings in
a separate disk, I will be fine. However, I am sure downgrade is not any
easy step or something developers routinely check. So, upgrade is always
risky for backend, IMHO.

Regards
Ramesh

On 8/1/23 18:02, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 9:06?PM Ram Ramesh<rramesh2400@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in bookworm?
> Yes, but be aware that the upgrade also changed
> the database schema, so you will need to restore
> from the backup that the upgrade made (and if
> you do not have it, or it was not properly taken,
> you will have to start with an entirely new database),
> and any activity (including recording) that has
> happened since the upgrade will need to involve
> some manual adjustments.
>
> I would recommend you step back and instead
> consider upgrading those v31 frontends, as
> you will need to do that at some point anyway.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
Thank you. This is not a backend. Only a frontend. So, no database as
far as I can figure out.  Once I get back to 31, I think it will talk to
31 backend without issue. So, I will remove frontend and all its
dependencies, try to install 31 and see if I get back old working
system. If not, nuke the disk and restart making a disk copy from a
working frontend and changing hostname.

Regards
Ramesh

On 8/1/23 19:03, Ram Ramesh wrote:
> On 8/1/23 18:02, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
>> On Mon, Jul 31, 2023 at 9:06?PM Ram Ramesh<rramesh2400@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Is there anyway I can downgrade to 0.31 and still stay in bookworm?
>> Yes, but be aware that the upgrade also changed
>> the database schema, so you will need to restore
>> from the backup that the upgrade made (and if
>> you do not have it, or it was not properly taken,
>> you will have to start with an entirely new database),
>> and any activity (including recording) that has
>> happened since the upgrade will need to involve
>> some manual adjustments.
>>
>> I would recommend you step back and instead
>> consider upgrading those v31 frontends, as
>> you will need to do that at some point anyway.
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-users mailing list
>> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
>> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org
> Thank you. This is not a backend. Only a frontend. So, no database as
> far as I can figure out.  Once I get back to 31, I think it will talk
> to 31 backend without issue. So, I will remove frontend and all its
> dependencies, try to install 31 and see if I get back old working
> system. If not, nuke the disk and restart making a disk copy from a
> working frontend and changing hostname.
>
> Regards
> Ramesh
>
I just tried downgrading and it worked! I simply apt remove
mythtv-frontend, edit sources.list and change multi-media lines back to
bullseye, apt update, apt install mythtv-frontend. I get myth 31 and it
seem to work just fine.

Thanks for giving me the extra push to try this.

Regards
Ramesh

> On 1 Aug 2023, at 4:36 pm, Mike Perkins <mikep@randomtraveller.org.uk> wrote:
>
> The problem with building from source, if you are not a developer, is that it takes time to set that build system up the first time and become familiar with it. Then, by the time you come to do the next upgrade, you have forgotten how it all works and maybe the system has changed anyway.
>
> For myth, uprgades/updates come sufficiently infrequently that the use of repos such as deb-multimedia are adequate for the purpose, even for someone like me who *is* a developer. 'apt update; apt upgrade' is quick and easy and keeps myth in step with the rest of the software.
>
> The OP has also said that he has two frontends he cannot yet upgrade; building from source risks that, even though he selects the same myth version, something will not be compatible. Using the same repo on every myth host ensures that all systems are exactly in lockstep.

First '51 was a good year! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=updE5LVe6tg&t=8s

I think setting up a VM to to build a system, specially using ansible is quick and easy. For me New VM to working FE BE is 30 minutes and circumvents Jims concerns about 31 on bookworm (maybe his build process won't work)

Gary this is foss and you may do as you wish, and your own opinion is always valid, and I seek not to argue in any way but your statement
> by the time you come to do the next upgrade
my youtube betrays my sentiments but WHY? If it ain't broke, don't fix it!
In any event I mearly wanted to show that the bottomless pit was quite shallow and my 1/2 hour could skirt the many days the thread has been active. I hope that users on the list can ignore rubbish and take valuable stuff away.
James
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