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On 1/16/23 17:50, Douglas Peale wrote:
> I'm watching Monday Night Football on ABC using live TV. Somehow it got switched to the SAP (secondary audio programming), so
> it is all in Spanish. How do I switch it back to the normal audio?
>
> There is no option under audio in the menu. Is there a keyboard shortcut? google did not help much.
>
>
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I went into the backend setup during half time, I did not find any mention of SAP. Still in Spanish when I returned to the game.

Tried the front end setup during a commercial, found that the '-' key was mapped to some audio channel switching, went back to
the game, and found it had switched to normal audio before I even tried the '-' key. Tried the '-' and '+' key, neither one
switched to SAP.

I have normal audio again, but I have no idea how I got it back, and I have no idea how to switch to SAP.

On Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 10:24 PM Douglas Peale <Douglas_Peale@comcast.net>
wrote:

> On 1/16/23 17:50, Douglas Peale wrote:
> > I'm watching Monday Night Football on ABC using live TV. Somehow it got
> switched to the SAP (secondary audio programming), so
> > it is all in Spanish. How do I switch it back to the normal audio?
> >
> > There is no option under audio in the menu. Is there a keyboard
> shortcut? google did not help much.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> > http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> > http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> > MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
> I went into the backend setup during half time, I did not find any mention
> of SAP. Still in Spanish when I returned to the game.
>
> Tried the front end setup during a commercial, found that the '-' key was
> mapped to some audio channel switching, went back to
> the game, and found it had switched to normal audio before I even tried
> the '-' key. Tried the '-' and '+' key, neither one
> switched to SAP.
>
> I have normal audio again, but I have no idea how I got it back, and I
> have no idea how to switch to SAP.
>

I have had the local broadcast mess this up and have Spanish as track 1
instead of 2. It went back and forth a few times during a game. I used the
M key to bring up the menu to change track and lip sync. There is a
playback menu in Leanfront as well. I use that mostly.

Jim A.

>

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 1:52 AM Douglas Peale <Douglas_Peale@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> I'm watching Monday Night Football on ABC using live TV. Somehow it got switched to the SAP (secondary audio programming), so it
> is all in Spanish. How do I switch it back to the normal audio?
>
> There is no option under audio in the menu. Is there a keyboard shortcut? google did not help much.

M (menu) > Audio > Select Audio Track

I will point out that Spanish is the fourth most used
language in the world, so it is "normal" for over 500
million speakers.

Perhaps you should reconsider your (perhaps)
unconscious biases (also known as implicit bias)
when you use the term "normal".
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On 1/16/23 19:58, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 1:52 AM Douglas Peale <Douglas_Peale@comcast.net> wrote:
>> I'm watching Monday Night Football on ABC using live TV. Somehow it got switched to the SAP (secondary audio programming), so it
>> is all in Spanish. How do I switch it back to the normal audio?
>>
>> There is no option under audio in the menu. Is there a keyboard shortcut? google did not help much.
> M (menu) > Audio > Select Audio Track
>
> I will point out that Spanish is the fourth most used
> language in the world, so it is "normal" for over 500
> million speakers.
>
> Perhaps you should reconsider your (perhaps)
> unconscious biases (also known as implicit bias)
> when you use the term "normal".
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

I tried the M (menu)  > Audio > There is no option for "Select Audio Track"

I use the term "Normal" because that is the main audio channel. I would use that term in a Spanish speaking country for the main
audio channel as well (which I would expect to be in Spanish).

Don't invent bias that isn't there.

On 1/16/23 19:55, James Abernathy wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Jan 16, 2023, 10:24 PM Douglas Peale <Douglas_Peale@comcast.net> wrote:
>
> On 1/16/23 17:50, Douglas Peale wrote:
> > I'm watching Monday Night Football on ABC using live TV. Somehow it got switched to the SAP (secondary audio
> programming), so
> > it is all in Spanish. How do I switch it back to the normal audio?
> >
> > There is no option under audio in the menu. Is there a keyboard shortcut? google did not help much.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > mythtv-users mailing list
> > mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> > http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> > http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> > MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>
> I went into the backend setup during half time, I did not find any mention of SAP. Still in Spanish when I returned to the
> game.
>
> Tried the front end setup during a commercial, found that the '-' key was mapped to some audio channel switching, went
> back to
> the game, and found it had switched to normal audio before I even tried the '-' key. Tried the '-' and '+' key, neither one
> switched to SAP.
>
> I have normal audio again, but I have no idea how I got it back, and I have no idea how to switch to SAP.
>
>
> I have had the local broadcast mess this up and have Spanish as track 1 instead of 2. It went back and forth a few times
> during a game. I used the M key to bring up the menu to change track and lip sync. There is a playback menu in Leanfront as
> well. I use that mostly.
>
> Jim A.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums:https://forum.mythtv.org

I verified with a different television that the broadcaster had not screwed up at the start of the second quarter. I was 20
minutes behind real time so I could skip commercials, so I could not just switch to the other TV. When the start of the second
quarter happened in the time shifted version, it was still in Spanish.

The M menu -> audio menu only had the lipsync option, no way to switch audio channels.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:06 AM Douglas Peale <Douglas_Peale@comcast.net> wrote:

> I use the term "Normal" because that is the main audio channel.

Note in the most recent ATSC standards, there is
(explicitly) no priority or main/secondary implied,
although there is clearly an order in the array, but
it is just an index (something has to be first in the
array, and something second, as it is the nature
of math). Some applications may try to match
your preferred language (Finnish vs Chinese vs
Spanish vs English), but sometimes they fall back
to selecting the first (matching is often somewhat
complicated).

And in some markets, for some channels, the
"main" audio channel is, indeed, Spanish (as
it has always been).

> Don't invent bias that isn't there.

As soon as you said "normal", you made clear
your bias. That you are not aware of it, and
immediately tried to defend your choice of words,
shows it (the implicit bias) is there. It is one of
the hardest things to recognize in one's self.
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On 1/16/23 20:30, Gary Buhrmaster wrote:
> On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 4:06 AM Douglas Peale <Douglas_Peale@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> I use the term "Normal" because that is the main audio channel.
> Note in the most recent ATSC standards, there is
> (explicitly) no priority or main/secondary implied,
> although there is clearly an order in the array, but
> it is just an index (something has to be first in the
> array, and something second, as it is the nature
> of math). Some applications may try to match
> your preferred language (Finnish vs Chinese vs
> Spanish vs English), but sometimes they fall back
> to selecting the first (matching is often somewhat
> complicated).
>
> And in some markets, for some channels, the
> "main" audio channel is, indeed, Spanish (as
> it has always been).
>
>> Don't invent bias that isn't there.
> As soon as you said "normal", you made clear
> your bias. That you are not aware of it, and
> immediately tried to defend your choice of words,
> shows it (the implicit bias) is there. It is one of
> the hardest things to recognize in one's self.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> http://lists.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org

It is called the "Secondary Audio Program" (SAP) here in the USA. I did not come up with that name. This SAP channel is not
always there for many programs. It is therefore not the "normal" audio channel. I did not refer to "normal" as English, I
referred to "normal" as not SAP.

Don't get so bent out of shape about how people use words. You are too easily triggered. Put the safety on and don't keep a
bullet in the chamber.

On 1/16/23 23:45, Douglas Peale wrote:
> It is called the "Secondary Audio Program" (SAP) here in the USA. I
> did not come up with that name. This SAP channel is not always there
> for many programs. It is therefore not the "normal" audio channel. I
> did not refer to "normal" as English, I referred to "normal" as not SAP.
>
While we are busy nit-picking, note the the term SAP (Second Audio
Program) refers to Analog TV, which has not been used in the USA for
some years. Nowadays TV is all digital and can have one or many audio
tracks in the stream.

Since you did not see an option to change audio program, it seems that
they only broadcast one audio track, which the broadcaster switched
between English and Spanish.

Peter

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I believe there is a key mapped to change this setting, I've fat-fingered
it (somewhere around P and zero ) and just stopped and started the
recording to get back to English.

On Tue, Jan 17, 2023 at 12:05 PM Peter Bennett <pb.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> On 1/16/23 23:45, Douglas Peale wrote:
> > It is called the "Secondary Audio Program" (SAP) here in the USA. I
> > did not come up with that name. This SAP channel is not always there
> > for many programs. It is therefore not the "normal" audio channel. I
> > did not refer to "normal" as English, I referred to "normal" as not SAP.
> >
> While we are busy nit-picking, note the the term SAP (Second Audio
> Program) refers to Analog TV, which has not been used in the USA for
> some years. Nowadays TV is all digital and can have one or many audio
> tracks in the stream.
>
> Since you did not see an option to change audio program, it seems that
> they only broadcast one audio track, which the broadcaster switched
> between English and Spanish.
>
> Peter
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
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> http://wiki.mythtv.org/Mailing_List_etiquette
> MythTV Forums: https://forum.mythtv.org
>

On 1/17/23 09:43, Daryl McDonald wrote:
> I believe there is a key mapped to change this setting, I've fat-fingered it (somewhere around P and zero ) and just stopped
> and started the recording to get back to English.

There is a key mapped It is the '+' key, or the '-' key. The '-' is near "P" and "0". For some reason that key is now working,
and the audio channel option is appearing in the audio menu.

I know that two audio channels were being broadcast during the game, because I tested this with a second TV.

I stopped and started the live TV multiple times, even to the point of going to the backend setup looking for some way to switch
back to the English audio.

I did not get back to English audio until I went into the Front End settings and looked through the key mappings (how I found
the '-' and '+' key mappings) I went back into video intending to try these keys, and without touching the '+', or '-' keys, I
was back to English audio. At that time, I tried the '+' and '-' keys, and it brought up a display showing the audio channel,
but would not switch audio channels.

When I read in this thread about the option in the audio menu, I went looking for that, but it was not there.I replied saying as
much in this thread. I had looked in that menu multiple times before as I figured it was the most likely place to find a way to
switch audio channels, but never found that option. Only the option to adjust lip sync.

I had exited live video accidentally and restarted it after sending that e-mail, and magically, the option to change audio
channels appeared in the audio menu, and the '+' and '-' keys started working.

My guess is that I ran into an obscure bug that will be difficult to reproduce.

On Tue, 17 Jan 2023 11:28:27 -0800, you wrote:

>On 1/17/23 09:43, Daryl McDonald wrote:
>> I believe there is a key mapped to change this setting, I've fat-fingered it (somewhere around P and zero ) and just?stopped
>> and started the recording to get back to English.
>
>There is a key mapped It is the '+' key, or the '-' key. The '-' is near "P" and "0". For some reason that key is now working,
>and the audio channel option is appearing in the audio menu.
>
>I know that two audio channels were being broadcast during the game, because I tested this with a second TV.
>
>I stopped and started the live TV multiple times, even to the point of going to the backend setup looking for some way to switch
>back to the English audio.
>
>I did not get back to English audio until I went into the Front End settings and looked through the key mappings (how I found
>the '-' and '+' key mappings) I went back into video intending to try these keys, and without touching the '+', or '-' keys, I
>was back to English audio. At that time, I tried the '+' and '-' keys, and it brought up a display showing the audio channel,
>but would not switch audio channels.
>
>When I read in this thread about the option in the audio menu, I went looking for that, but it was not there.I replied saying as
>much in this thread. I had looked in that menu multiple times before as I figured it was the most likely place to find a way to
>switch audio channels, but never found that option. Only the option to adjust lip sync.
>
>I had exited live video accidentally and restarted it after sending that e-mail, and magically, the option to change audio
>channels appeared in the audio menu, and the '+' and '-' keys started working.
>
>My guess is that I ran into an obscure bug that will be difficult to reproduce.

It certainly sounds like that. My first guess as to a trigger for the
bug would be that when the recording was started, there was something
being broadcast that only had Spanish audio (an advertisement?), and
when the English audio came back later it was missed. The LiveTV
recording will likely be long deleted by now (depending on your
settings), but if it happens again, it would be a good idea to find
the name of the recording file and take a copy of it before it gets
deleted. If you use the I key on a recording, it should show the
"Recorded file name" towards the bottom of the page. However, things
may be more complicated for LiveTV - I think it used to used multiple
files if you changed channel during the recording.
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