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On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 09:05:24 -0400, you wrote:

>My old frontend machine is using an nVidia card (a GT 430). I've been
>meaning to look into building a new frontend for some time, and have
>had some questions about that answered here.
>
>I built AMD based the workstation I'm on right now last year and went
>with an AMD Radeon RX 5500 XT 8-GB. That would clearly be massive
>overkill for a MythTV frontend for sure.
>
>That said, while I'm not running MythTV on this machine, I see that
>the AMDGPU VDPAU appears to work very well in other players here, like
>xine and mpv etc. I've tested on 1080i OTA interlaced content as well
>and it appears the deinterlacing is using VDPAU as well...though I'm
>not sure what method it's using.
>
>I'm honestly a little fed up with nVidia for many reasons. Is anyone
>using Radeon cards and the AMDGPU VDPAU on their frontends? If so, I'd
>be interested to hear how it's working out. Thanks in advance!
>
>Tom

I would be interested to know about this also. Nvidia making me have
to throw away perfectly good GT220 and earlier cards just because they
have stopped driver support has made me quite angry with them. Your
GT430 will suffer the same fate very shortly if it has not already -
they are clearly intent on dropping support for any cards earlier than
the 1000 series. I have never used AMD GPUs as their reputation was
previously for having very buggy drivers. Video driver bugs are very
bad things as they often lead to system crashes or lockups of the
worst sort. Nvidia has had bugs like that and I have suffered through
a couple, but in a month or two Nvidia has fixed the bug. But with
AMD the reports used to be that they never bothered to fix bugs like
that. But it seems that may all be in the past and if so, AMD may
well be a decent (cheaper?) option for MythTV. Intel certainly is
now, if you have a decent CPU for doing the deinterlacing.
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On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 10:08 AM Stephen Worthington
<stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 09:05:24 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >
> >I'm honestly a little fed up with nVidia for many reasons. Is anyone
> >using Radeon cards and the AMDGPU VDPAU on their frontends? If so, I'd
> >be interested to hear how it's working out. Thanks in advance!
> >
> >Tom
>
> I would be interested to know about this also. Nvidia making me have
> to throw away perfectly good GT220 and earlier cards just because they
> have stopped driver support has made me quite angry with them. Your
> GT430 will suffer the same fate very shortly if it has not already -
> they are clearly intent on dropping support for any cards earlier than
> the 1000 series. I have never used AMD GPUs as their reputation was
> previously for having very buggy drivers. Video driver bugs are very
> bad things as they often lead to system crashes or lockups of the
> worst sort. Nvidia has had bugs like that and I have suffered through
> a couple, but in a month or two Nvidia has fixed the bug. But with
> AMD the reports used to be that they never bothered to fix bugs like
> that. But it seems that may all be in the past and if so, AMD may
> well be a decent (cheaper?) option for MythTV. Intel certainly is
> now, if you have a decent CPU for doing the deinterlacing.

I've actually already run into that to some degree, because my
frontend is 32 bit and nVIdia has dropped support for that past the
version 390 drivers.

I think that the Linux AMD issues predate the newer AMDGPU stuff in
the kernel entirely. Note that I use Gentoo for everything, so the
kernel and any AMD related drivers are pretty current. Like I said,
VDPAU (albeit not in MythTV) seems to be working great on this
machine.

Tom
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On 4/6/22 10:06 AM, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> Nvidia making me have
> to throw away perfectly good GT220 and earlier cards just because they
> have stopped driver support has made me quite angry with them.


I'm somewhat curious about this logic. Surely a driver exists that
supports this device, no?



-WD
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On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:39:01 -0400, you wrote:

>On 4/6/22 10:06 AM, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> Nvidia making me have
>> to throw away perfectly good GT220 and earlier cards just because they
>> have stopped driver support has made me quite angry with them.
>
>
>I'm somewhat curious about this logic. Surely a driver exists that
>supports this device, no?

Not on any current kernel.
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On Wed, Apr 6, 2022, at 13:39, Will Dormann wrote:
> On 4/6/22 10:06 AM, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> Nvidia making me have
>> to throw away perfectly good GT220 and earlier cards just because they
>> have stopped driver support has made me quite angry with them.
>
> I'm somewhat curious about this logic. Surely a driver exists that
> supports this device, no?

At some point, you end up wanting to upgrade the OS and the driver stops working right with the kernel (and even before that, gets more irritating to install). I've previously done this for awhile, but then when I went to the next Ubuntu LTS, it became more hassle than I wanted to deal with (which I suppose may be where NVIDIA is coming from not that I support nearly any of their decisions).

--
Ryan Novosielski
ryan@novosielski.com
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On Wed, Apr 6, 2022, 11:57 Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz>
wrote:

> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:39:01 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >On 4/6/22 10:06 AM, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> >> Nvidia making me have
> >> to throw away perfectly good GT220 and earlier cards just because they
> >> have stopped driver support has made me quite angry with them.
> >
> >
> >I'm somewhat curious about this logic. Surely a driver exists that
> >supports this device, no?
>
> Not on any current kernel.
>

is Nouveau working well enough on these cards after ~10+ years development
time?

>

Yeah, my nVidia cards are even older so I switched away years ago.

Two of my frontends use AMD Ryzen 3400G and 2400G APUs (CPUs with
integrated Radeon GPUs). The playback profiles are set to use "VAAPI"
(not VDPAU) for the decoder and "OpenGL Hardware" for the renderer, and
that seems to work well.

I haven't played much with the deinterlacing options since I don't
record any 1080i content these days ("Thanks, Comcast").
--
Gregorio Gervasio Jr. gregorio.gervasio@gmail.com
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On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 12:34:22 -0600, you wrote:

>On Wed, Apr 6, 2022, 11:57 Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz>
>wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:39:01 -0400, you wrote:
>>
>> >On 4/6/22 10:06 AM, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> >> Nvidia making me have
>> >> to throw away perfectly good GT220 and earlier cards just because they
>> >> have stopped driver support has made me quite angry with them.
>> >
>> >
>> >I'm somewhat curious about this logic. Surely a driver exists that
>> >supports this device, no?
>>
>> Not on any current kernel.
>>
>
>is Nouveau working well enough on these cards after ~10+ years development
>time?

For ordinary desktop use, Nouveau is Ok - there are occasionally
oddities that happen. I have this on an ancient motherboard I use for
testing that has a builtin Nvidia GPU (much older than my GT220). But
it does not work for video - playing recordings in MythTV does produce
a picture, but it is very bad and out of sync with the audio
(variably), and not usable.
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> Wiadomo?? napisana przez Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> w dniu 06.04.2022, o godz. 19:54:
>
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 13:39:01 -0400, you wrote:
>
>
> Not on any current kernel.

FYI
I developed patches for current 5.17 kernel.
https://github.com/warpme/minimyth2/tree/master/script/nvidia/nvidia-340.108/files

btw: My distro still supports nvidia legacy i think...
i.e. you can use USB live key to run it.


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On Thu, Apr 07, 2022 at 03:03:41PM +1200, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 12:34:22 -0600, you wrote:

<snip>

> >
> >is Nouveau working well enough on these cards after ~10+ years development
> >time?
>
> For ordinary desktop use, Nouveau is Ok - there are occasionally
> oddities that happen. I have this on an ancient motherboard I use for
> testing that has a builtin Nvidia GPU (much older than my GT220). But
> it does not work for video - playing recordings in MythTV does produce
> a picture, but it is very bad and out of sync with the audio
> (variably), and not usable.

I have this card
NVIDIA Corporation GK208B [GeForce GT 710] (rev a1)
and nouveau works ok for me, on a dedicated frontend/backend.
More modern motherboard, AsusTek Prime H310M-E R2.0
so a much different setup from Steven's, but a data point nonetheless.

Cheers
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On Sat, 9 Apr 2022 13:31:13 +1000, you wrote:

>On Thu, Apr 07, 2022 at 03:03:41PM +1200, Stephen Worthington wrote:
>> On Wed, 6 Apr 2022 12:34:22 -0600, you wrote:
>
><snip>
>
>> >
>> >is Nouveau working well enough on these cards after ~10+ years development
>> >time?
>>
>> For ordinary desktop use, Nouveau is Ok - there are occasionally
>> oddities that happen. I have this on an ancient motherboard I use for
>> testing that has a builtin Nvidia GPU (much older than my GT220). But
>> it does not work for video - playing recordings in MythTV does produce
>> a picture, but it is very bad and out of sync with the audio
>> (variably), and not usable.
>
>I have this card
> NVIDIA Corporation GK208B [GeForce GT 710] (rev a1)
>and nouveau works ok for me, on a dedicated frontend/backend.
>More modern motherboard, AsusTek Prime H310M-E R2.0
>so a much different setup from Steven's, but a data point nonetheless.
>
>Cheers

The ultimate test is to play interleaved video (1080i), as that is
where the Nouveau drivers seem weakest. Nouveau's support of the
various Nvidia chipsets varies a bit, so I can believe a GT710 might
work better than a GT220. They seem to have put more effort into
supporting the more popular Nvidia chipsets.

But the other factor is how much is actually being done by the GPU.
With a modern motherboard, everything can be done in the CPU and you
will get a decent picture with a completely unintelligent GPU. It
will likely not work for 4K video though, and if the CPU cores are
nearly 100% most of the time, there will likely be small problems when
the video data is doing something very complicated or very high bit
rate, when the CPUs will not be able to keep up.

When you play back with the Nouveau drivers, try M(enu) > Playback >
Playback data and see what the CPU usage is and what the other numbers
tell you. The transfer rate to the GPU should roughly match the bit
rate of the recording if all the processing is actually being
offloaded onto the GPU.
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On Wed, Apr 6, 2022 at 9:05 AM Tom Dexter <digitalaudiorock@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> My old frontend machine is using an nVidia card (a GT 430). I've been
> meaning to look into building a new frontend for some time, and have
> had some questions about that answered here.
>
> I built AMD based the workstation I'm on right now last year and went
> with an AMD Radeon RX 5500 XT 8-GB. That would clearly be massive
> overkill for a MythTV frontend for sure.
>
> That said, while I'm not running MythTV on this machine, I see that
> the AMDGPU VDPAU appears to work very well in other players here, like
> xine and mpv etc. I've tested on 1080i OTA interlaced content as well
> and it appears the deinterlacing is using VDPAU as well...though I'm
> not sure what method it's using.
>
> I'm honestly a little fed up with nVidia for many reasons. Is anyone
> using Radeon cards and the AMDGPU VDPAU on their frontends? If so, I'd
> be interested to hear how it's working out. Thanks in advance!
>
> Tom

Just bumping this one to see if there's anyone out there using MythTV
with AMDGPU and VDPAU...ideally someone using it with deinterlacing.

Thanks!
Tom
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On 4/6/22 16:49, Gregorio Gervasio Jr. wrote:
> Yeah, my nVidia cards are even older so I switched away years ago.
>
> Two of my frontends use AMD Ryzen 3400G and 2400G APUs (CPUs with
> integrated Radeon GPUs). The playback profiles are set to use "VAAPI"
> (not VDPAU) for the decoder and "OpenGL Hardware" for the renderer, and
> that seems to work well.
>
> I haven't played much with the deinterlacing options since I don't
> record any 1080i content these days ("Thanks, Comcast").
I have a combo BE/FE with AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU/GPU Radeon graphics that
I built late last year.  I set it to use VAAPI as that is listed as more
broadly capable in MythTV FE System Status than VDPAU.  I have not
noticed any issues with 1080i content (h.264 from an HDPVR), which all
of my recordings use.

It does seem to me that the picture is not quite as sharp as it was on
my old machine (at 1080p60).  But without being able to specify the
de-interlacer I'm not sure if it is related to that (or if it just my
eyesight).  I drive the TV display at 4k p60 and like it overall.  Even
if I used ffmpeg as the decoder, it doesn't put much load on the
system.  Note that I am using the mesa driver's included in LINUX.  I
have not tried installing the AMD GPU drivers.  I'm using Xubuntu 20 LTS.

Remember that the AMD GPU uses system memory.  So the faster and more of
it the better.  I've got 32Gb RAM and the GPU reserves 8GB.

I've also noticed that MythTV FE starts using up RAM, upwards of 6-8GB
over the course of days (using either ffmpeg or vaapi).  Not sure why it
creeps up like that.

Overall I have been pleased with the performance of the 5700G.  I really
did not want to have to buy a separate video card and this CPU/GPU does
the job nicely and was not a hassle to deal with in LINUX.

Regards,
Martin
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On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:03 AM Martin Compton <martinc@itrans.com> wrote:
>
> On 4/6/22 16:49, Gregorio Gervasio Jr. wrote:
> > Yeah, my nVidia cards are even older so I switched away years ago.
> >
> > Two of my frontends use AMD Ryzen 3400G and 2400G APUs (CPUs with
> > integrated Radeon GPUs). The playback profiles are set to use "VAAPI"
> > (not VDPAU) for the decoder and "OpenGL Hardware" for the renderer, and
> > that seems to work well.
> >
> > I haven't played much with the deinterlacing options since I don't
> > record any 1080i content these days ("Thanks, Comcast").
> I have a combo BE/FE with AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU/GPU Radeon graphics that
> I built late last year. I set it to use VAAPI as that is listed as more
> broadly capable in MythTV FE System Status than VDPAU. I have not
> noticed any issues with 1080i content (h.264 from an HDPVR), which all
> of my recordings use.
>
> It does seem to me that the picture is not quite as sharp as it was on
> my old machine (at 1080p60). But without being able to specify the
> de-interlacer I'm not sure if it is related to that (or if it just my
> eyesight). I drive the TV display at 4k p60 and like it overall. Even
> if I used ffmpeg as the decoder, it doesn't put much load on the
> system. Note that I am using the mesa driver's included in LINUX. I
> have not tried installing the AMD GPU drivers. I'm using Xubuntu 20 LTS.
>
> Remember that the AMD GPU uses system memory. So the faster and more of
> it the better. I've got 32Gb RAM and the GPU reserves 8GB.
>
> I've also noticed that MythTV FE starts using up RAM, upwards of 6-8GB
> over the course of days (using either ffmpeg or vaapi). Not sure why it
> creeps up like that.
>
> Overall I have been pleased with the performance of the 5700G. I really
> did not want to have to buy a separate video card and this CPU/GPU does
> the job nicely and was not a hassle to deal with in LINUX.
>
> Regards,
> Martin

Thanks for the reply! I'm a little confused as to what you're saying
about using RAM. Are you using the onboard GPU, or a separate video
card? I'm aware that the onboard cards use system RAM but didn't think
that was the case with a separate video card.

The 1080i content I have is from OTA TV for the channels that don't
broadcast in 720p. That of course is all mpeg-2. It seems a little
surprising that the h264 from that HDPVR would be interlaced actually.

When you say that you "drive the TV display at 4k" are you saying that
you're actually outputting 4k from the video card?

Thanks in advance!
Tom
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On 4/27/22 11:08, Tom Dexter wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:03 AM Martin Compton <martinc@itrans.com> wrote:
>> On 4/6/22 16:49, Gregorio Gervasio Jr. wrote:
>>> Yeah, my nVidia cards are even older so I switched away years ago.
>>>
>>> Two of my frontends use AMD Ryzen 3400G and 2400G APUs (CPUs with
>>> integrated Radeon GPUs). The playback profiles are set to use "VAAPI"
>>> (not VDPAU) for the decoder and "OpenGL Hardware" for the renderer, and
>>> that seems to work well.
>>>
>>> I haven't played much with the deinterlacing options since I don't
>>> record any 1080i content these days ("Thanks, Comcast").
>> I have a combo BE/FE with AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU/GPU Radeon graphics that
>> I built late last year. I set it to use VAAPI as that is listed as more
>> broadly capable in MythTV FE System Status than VDPAU. I have not
>> noticed any issues with 1080i content (h.264 from an HDPVR), which all
>> of my recordings use.
>>
>> It does seem to me that the picture is not quite as sharp as it was on
>> my old machine (at 1080p60). But without being able to specify the
>> de-interlacer I'm not sure if it is related to that (or if it just my
>> eyesight). I drive the TV display at 4k p60 and like it overall. Even
>> if I used ffmpeg as the decoder, it doesn't put much load on the
>> system. Note that I am using the mesa driver's included in LINUX. I
>> have not tried installing the AMD GPU drivers. I'm using Xubuntu 20 LTS.
>>
>> Remember that the AMD GPU uses system memory. So the faster and more of
>> it the better. I've got 32Gb RAM and the GPU reserves 8GB.
>>
>> I've also noticed that MythTV FE starts using up RAM, upwards of 6-8GB
>> over the course of days (using either ffmpeg or vaapi). Not sure why it
>> creeps up like that.
>>
>> Overall I have been pleased with the performance of the 5700G. I really
>> did not want to have to buy a separate video card and this CPU/GPU does
>> the job nicely and was not a hassle to deal with in LINUX.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Martin
> Thanks for the reply! I'm a little confused as to what you're saying
> about using RAM. Are you using the onboard GPU, or a separate video
> card? I'm aware that the onboard cards use system RAM but didn't think
> that was the case with a separate video card.
>
> The 1080i content I have is from OTA TV for the channels that don't
> broadcast in 720p. That of course is all mpeg-2. It seems a little
> surprising that the h264 from that HDPVR would be interlaced actually.
>
> When you say that you "drive the TV display at 4k" are you saying that
> you're actually outputting 4k from the video card?
>
> Thanks in advance!
> Tom

I'm using the onboard GPU only.

I'm using the component output of the cable box (spectrum).  Not sure
why it comes out that way either.  1080i is what I have the STB
configured to output, though.

Yes, the GPU is outputting 4k to the TV via HDMI.  The only issue I've
had is that for some reason it reverts to 30hz after the TV has been
turned off.  Easy enough to set it back to 60hz though.

Hope that helps clarify.
MC
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On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 3:57 PM Martin Compton <martinc@itrans.com> wrote:
>
> On 4/27/22 11:08, Tom Dexter wrote:
> > On Wed, Apr 27, 2022 at 10:03 AM Martin Compton <martinc@itrans.com> wrote:
> >> On 4/6/22 16:49, Gregorio Gervasio Jr. wrote:
> >>> Yeah, my nVidia cards are even older so I switched away years ago.
> >>>
> >>> Two of my frontends use AMD Ryzen 3400G and 2400G APUs (CPUs with
> >>> integrated Radeon GPUs). The playback profiles are set to use "VAAPI"
> >>> (not VDPAU) for the decoder and "OpenGL Hardware" for the renderer, and
> >>> that seems to work well.
> >>>
> >>> I haven't played much with the deinterlacing options since I don't
> >>> record any 1080i content these days ("Thanks, Comcast").
> >> I have a combo BE/FE with AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU/GPU Radeon graphics that
> >> I built late last year. I set it to use VAAPI as that is listed as more
> >> broadly capable in MythTV FE System Status than VDPAU. I have not
> >> noticed any issues with 1080i content (h.264 from an HDPVR), which all
> >> of my recordings use.
> >>
> >> It does seem to me that the picture is not quite as sharp as it was on
> >> my old machine (at 1080p60). But without being able to specify the
> >> de-interlacer I'm not sure if it is related to that (or if it just my
> >> eyesight). I drive the TV display at 4k p60 and like it overall. Even
> >> if I used ffmpeg as the decoder, it doesn't put much load on the
> >> system. Note that I am using the mesa driver's included in LINUX. I
> >> have not tried installing the AMD GPU drivers. I'm using Xubuntu 20 LTS.
> >>
> >> Remember that the AMD GPU uses system memory. So the faster and more of
> >> it the better. I've got 32Gb RAM and the GPU reserves 8GB.
> >>
> >> I've also noticed that MythTV FE starts using up RAM, upwards of 6-8GB
> >> over the course of days (using either ffmpeg or vaapi). Not sure why it
> >> creeps up like that.
> >>
> >> Overall I have been pleased with the performance of the 5700G. I really
> >> did not want to have to buy a separate video card and this CPU/GPU does
> >> the job nicely and was not a hassle to deal with in LINUX.
> >>
> >> Regards,
> >> Martin
> > Thanks for the reply! I'm a little confused as to what you're saying
> > about using RAM. Are you using the onboard GPU, or a separate video
> > card? I'm aware that the onboard cards use system RAM but didn't think
> > that was the case with a separate video card.
> >
> > The 1080i content I have is from OTA TV for the channels that don't
> > broadcast in 720p. That of course is all mpeg-2. It seems a little
> > surprising that the h264 from that HDPVR would be interlaced actually.
> >
> > When you say that you "drive the TV display at 4k" are you saying that
> > you're actually outputting 4k from the video card?
> >
> > Thanks in advance!
> > Tom
>
> I'm using the onboard GPU only.
>
> I'm using the component output of the cable box (spectrum). Not sure
> why it comes out that way either. 1080i is what I have the STB
> configured to output, though.
>
> Yes, the GPU is outputting 4k to the TV via HDMI. The only issue I've
> had is that for some reason it reverts to 30hz after the TV has been
> turned off. Easy enough to set it back to 60hz though.
>
> Hope that helps clarify.
> MC
Yes. Thanks for the clarification! Yea, next time around I'd really
like to get nVidia GPUs out of my life.

Thanks again!
Tom
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>
>
> >> I have a combo BE/FE with AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU/GPU Radeon graphics that
> >> I built late last year.
>

I have the same processor for my headless backend, but have been unable to
get vainfo to work at the terminal. I've tried all of the libva drivers
(including radeonsi) to no avail.

For vaapi, did you have to install any special packages to get acceleration
working? I'm less interested in using it for video display (again this is a
headless server), but more for transcoding.

On Thu, Apr 28, 2022 at 5:59 AM John Hoyt <john.hoyt@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >> I have a combo BE/FE with AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU/GPU Radeon graphics that
>> >> I built late last year.
>
>
> I have the same processor for my headless backend, but have been unable to get vainfo to work at the terminal. I've tried all of the libva drivers (including radeonsi) to no avail.
>
> For vaapi, did you have to install any special packages to get acceleration working? I'm less interested in using it for video display (again this is a headless server), but more for transcoding.

Actually, until some tests I tried just yesterday, I'd only used vdpau
on this machine and NOT vaapi, and that's worked no problem for me in
xine and mpv for example. Again, I don't have MythTV installed here.

Yesterday I tried enabling vaapi for mpv. I'm running Gentoo and that
was a matter of enabling the vaapi USE flag for media-video/mpv and
recompiling it. That installed the x11-libs/libva library, and
recompiled ffmpeg to have vaapi support, as well as mpv. Now mpv can
use vaapi by using the options:

mpv --vo=gpu --hwdec=vaapi <file-name>

...or by using this in it's config file:
cat ~/.config/mpv/mpv.conf
vo=gpu
hwdec=vdpau

Again however, I've generally just been using vdpau.

Tom
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On 4/28/22 04:58, John Hoyt wrote:
>
>
> >> I have a combo BE/FE with AMD Ryzen 7 5700G CPU/GPU Radeon
> graphics that
> >> I built late last year.
>
>
> I have the same processor for my headless backend, but have been
> unable to get vainfo to work at the terminal. I've tried all of the
> libva drivers (including radeonsi) to no avail.
>
> For vaapi, did you have to install any special packages to get
> acceleration working? I'm less interested in using it for video
> display (again this is a headless server), but more for transcoding.

No, I didn't install any special packages.  I just checked and 'vainfo'
is not installed.

I was poking around MythTV Front End's "Information Center -> System
Status -> Video Decoders" screen and noticed it showed some vdpau and
vaapi support.  So I just tried them.