Mailing List Archive

On 11/1/20 2:58 PM, James Abernathy wrote:
> Looking for advice on what folks have working in their setup.
>
> I'm replacing my old Core i7 2700K system that uses an Nvidia GT-1030
> GFX card. The reasons are other than Mythtv, but I want Mythtv to work
> just as well as it does today.
>
> I know the Core i7 10600K is a respectable 6 Core 12 thread CPU and it
> has Intel GFX. I'm not disappointed with what my GT-1030 is giving me,
> so I can always put that old card into the new system if the Intel GFX
> sucks. But then I'm wasting money on GFX I'm not using.
>
> I've been looking at the AMD Ryzen 5 3600 which is 6/12 core/thread
> and is very respected. If I get a 500 series motherboard it would also
> support the 5000 Zen 3 processors when they come out.  I could use my
> GT-1030 GFX card or add a Radeon RX 570 GFX card and still be cheaper
> than the Intel Core i7 10600K.system.
>
> My research says Linux drivers are available for AMD, Nvidia, and
> Intel so I'm hoping Mythtv would work fine. However, my son says to
> stay with Radeon if I go Ryzen 5 3600 for gaming software
> compatibility. (I have no idea why)
>
> Any opinions on any of this?
>
> Jim A
I'm using Intel onboard on my I7 main FE/BE as well as a Costco special
FE.  dmidecode on moth systems shows:

Core(TM) i7-8700 CPU @ 3.20GHz

It's total coincidence that both systems have identical CPUs (my wife
just came home from Costco one day with a new PC that happened to be
identical with the new MB/CPU I had just upgraded our MBE/FE to).

I couldn't be more pleased with the way these systems play back
1080p/i.  I have tried 4K content, just to see if it works, but my
displays are all 1080p (good news is the onboard Intels scale it
nicely).  I consider myself an amateur videophile (I used to be a TV
repairman) so I notice things like poor panning performance, interlace
lines, etc.  Both systems are a couple of years old, now, but I wanted
to mention that the Intel onboard works well with Myth, Netflix Xine,
Mplayer, VLC:  anything I throw it it. Using VAAPI seems to work fine. 
There is a wrapper that emulates VDPAU, but Myth supports VAAPI directly.

For years I dealt with Nvidia add-on cards because I liked they way they
allowed a dual desktop configuration but KDE stopped supporting that
configuration so I just tried the onboard Intel on my new system and
haven't looked back.

Dave D.



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On 11/1/20 4:58 PM, James Abernathy wrote:
> Looking for advice on what folks have working in their setup.
>
> I'm replacing my old Core i7 2700K system that uses an Nvidia GT-1030
> GFX card. The reasons are other than Mythtv, but I want Mythtv to work
> just as well as it does today.
>
> I know the Core i7 10600K is a respectable 6 Core 12 thread CPU and it
> has Intel GFX. I'm not disappointed with what my GT-1030 is giving me,
> so I can always put that old card into the new system if the Intel GFX
> sucks. But then I'm wasting money on GFX I'm not using.
>
> I've been looking at the AMD Ryzen 5 3600 which is 6/12 core/thread
> and is very respected. If I get a 500 series motherboard it would also
> support the 5000 Zen 3 processors when they come out.  I could use my
> GT-1030 GFX card or add a Radeon RX 570 GFX card and still be cheaper
> than the Intel Core i7 10600K.system.
>
> My research says Linux drivers are available for AMD, Nvidia, and
> Intel so I'm hoping Mythtv would work fine. However, my son says to
> stay with Radeon if I go Ryzen 5 3600 for gaming software
> compatibility. (I have no idea why)
>
> Any opinions on any of this?
>
> Jim A
>
That's waaaay more power than MythTV needs.  I have a desktop computer I
just built with an AMD Ryzen 5 3600X, 5 series board, and a Radeon RX570
video card - and mythfrontend barely makes a dent, even when running KDE
Plasma, firefox with multiple Youtube/Twitch streams, or even a medium
to heavy game.

I have two elderly Intel NUCs that run mythfrontend without an issue. 
One is a i3 and the other a Celeron.

My backend server is on a AMD Ryzen 3 1200 4-core, and MythTV backend
barely makes a blip.

Just an FYI, I use OpenSuse 15.2 on the backend, and OpenSuse Tumbleweed
on the desktop/frontend.

Anything you pick will work great.  They Myth crew have even made
amazing progress on integrated Intel graphics.


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On 2 November 2020 02:55:11 GMT, "Jeremy D. Eiden" <theonlyrealperson@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>On 11/1/20 4:58 PM, James Abernathy wrote:
>> Looking for advice on what folks have working in their setup.
>>
>> I'm replacing my old Core i7 2700K system that uses an Nvidia GT-1030
>
>> GFX card. The reasons are other than Mythtv, but I want Mythtv to
>work
>> just as well as it does today.
>>
>> I know the Core i7 10600K is a respectable 6 Core 12 thread CPU and
>it
>> has Intel GFX. I'm not disappointed with what my GT-1030 is giving
>me,
>> so I can always put that old card into the new system if the Intel
>GFX
>> sucks. But then I'm wasting money on GFX I'm not using.
>>
>> I've been looking at the AMD Ryzen 5 3600 which is 6/12 core/thread
>> and is very respected. If I get a 500 series motherboard it would
>also
>> support the 5000 Zen 3 processors when they come out.  I could use my
>
>> GT-1030 GFX card or add a Radeon RX 570 GFX card and still be cheaper
>
>> than the Intel Core i7 10600K.system.
>>
>> My research says Linux drivers are available for AMD, Nvidia, and
>> Intel so I'm hoping Mythtv would work fine. However, my son says to
>> stay with Radeon if I go Ryzen 5 3600 for gaming software
>> compatibility. (I have no idea why)
>>
>> Any opinions on any of this?
>>
>> Jim A
>>
>That's waaaay more power than MythTV needs.

Seconded. I've just started using this tiny thing for a front end: https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-n40-mini-pc. It plays everything I throw at it flawlessly. 1080p/i always perfectly smooth, including HEVC encoded video.

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On 2 November 2020 05:07:29 GMT, Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:
>
>
>On 2 November 2020 02:55:11 GMT, "Jeremy D. Eiden"
><theonlyrealperson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>On 11/1/20 4:58 PM, James Abernathy wrote:
>>> Looking for advice on what folks have working in their setup.
>>>
>>> I'm replacing my old Core i7 2700K system that uses an Nvidia
>GT-1030
>>
>>> GFX card. The reasons are other than Mythtv, but I want Mythtv to
>>work
>>> just as well as it does today.
>>>
>>> I know the Core i7 10600K is a respectable 6 Core 12 thread CPU and
>>it
>>> has Intel GFX. I'm not disappointed with what my GT-1030 is giving
>>me,
>>> so I can always put that old card into the new system if the Intel
>>GFX
>>> sucks. But then I'm wasting money on GFX I'm not using.
>>>
>>> I've been looking at the AMD Ryzen 5 3600 which is 6/12 core/thread
>>> and is very respected. If I get a 500 series motherboard it would
>>also
>>> support the 5000 Zen 3 processors when they come out.  I could use
>my
>>
>>> GT-1030 GFX card or add a Radeon RX 570 GFX card and still be
>cheaper
>>
>>> than the Intel Core i7 10600K.system.
>>>
>>> My research says Linux drivers are available for AMD, Nvidia, and
>>> Intel so I'm hoping Mythtv would work fine. However, my son says to
>>> stay with Radeon if I go Ryzen 5 3600 for gaming software
>>> compatibility. (I have no idea why)
>>>
>>> Any opinions on any of this?
>>>
>>> Jim A
>>>
>>That's waaaay more power than MythTV needs.
>
>Seconded. I've just started using this tiny thing for a front end:
>https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-n40-mini-pc. It plays
>everything I throw at it flawlessly. 1080p/i always perfectly smooth,
>including HEVC encoded video.

Sorry, broken link. Try this: https://store.minisforum.com/collections/all-product/products/minisforum-n40-mini-pc
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On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 at 16:09, Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:

>
>
>
> >> My research says Linux drivers are available for AMD, Nvidia, and
> >> Intel so I'm hoping Mythtv would work fine. However, my son says to
> >> stay with Radeon if I go Ryzen 5 3600 for gaming software
> >> compatibility. (I have no idea why)
> >>
> >> Any opinions on any of this?
> >>
> >> Jim A
> >>
> >That's waaaay more power than MythTV needs.
>
> Seconded. I've just started using this tiny thing for a front end:
> https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-n40-mini-pc. It plays
> everything I throw at it flawlessly. 1080p/i always perfectly smooth,
> including HEVC encoded video.
>

Thirded. I know you said you want to run apps other than MythTV, but FYI I
just bought a new Chromecast With Google TV and it runs MythTV Mythfrontend
app and the Leanfront app fine. FYI for anyone else installing
Mythfrontend, you need the 32 bit APK file.

Apologies if you're looking to run Mythbackend on it as well - you
obviously can't do that with one of these devices.

On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 at 23:00, James Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Looking for advice on what folks have working in their setup.
>
> I'm replacing my old Core i7 2700K system that uses an Nvidia GT-1030 GFX card. The reasons are other than Mythtv, but I want Mythtv to work just as well as it does today.
>
> I know the Core i7 10600K is a respectable 6 Core 12 thread CPU and it has Intel GFX. I'm not disappointed with what my GT-1030 is giving me, so I can always put that old card into the new system if the Intel GFX sucks. But then I'm wasting money on GFX I'm not using.
>
> I've been looking at the AMD Ryzen 5 3600 which is 6/12 core/thread and is very respected. If I get a 500 series motherboard it would also support the 5000 Zen 3 processors when they come out. I could use my GT-1030 GFX card or add a Radeon RX 570 GFX card and still be cheaper than the Intel Core i7 10600K.system.
>

Jim

As others have said, this is complete overkill for a mythtv only
frontend - but I'm assuming from your comments that you have other
requirements.

For reference, my main development system has a dual core celeron
(G4920 - CoffeeLake).

VAAPI support is flawless:

VAAPIDec: EGL DMABUF available for best VAAPI performance
VAAPIDec: MPEG2 Simple (Max size: 4096x4096)
MPEG2 Main (Max size: 4096x4096)
H264 Constrained (Max size: 4096x4096)
H264 Main (Max size: 4096x4096)
H264 High (Max size: 4096x4096)
VC1 Simple (Max size: 4096x4096)
VC1 Main (Max size: 4096x4096)
VC1 Advanced (Max size: 4096x4096)
VP8 (Max size: 4096x4096)
HEVC Main (Max size: 4096x4096)
HEVC Main10 (Max size: 4096x4096)
VP9 Level 0 (Max size: 4096x4096)
VP9 Level 2 (Max size: 4096x4096)

It will playback just about any sensible clip I can throw at it (i.e.
5k/8k is a no go).

Other use cases aside, with the current generation of CPUs I don't
believe you need anything more than 2cores/4threads for pretty
comfortable CPU performance (this does of course assume hardware
decoding).

Any integrated intel GPU from CoffeeLake above should be fine and
VAAPI is, imho, the best supported and best performing API around for
linux video.

Integrated AMD GPUs should be fine as well - though I've only tested a
cheapish external AMD gpu. AMD supports both VAAPI and VDPAU - but
VAAPI is again the way to go.

I've started looking around for an upgrade and am looking at a Ryzen 5
3400G. 4cores/8threads, Vega 11 graphics, reasonably priced. Put that
in a reasonable motherboard and it should also offer an upgrade path
for zen3 if needed.

The only other concern I have when looking for new parts is to ensure
HDM2.X support to ensure full 4K HDR support at 60fps. For integrated
GPUs that is usually a motherboard issue/constraint.

Regards
Mark

P.S. I also find NVidia is becoming increasingly troublesome to use
when compared to intel/amd parts. I can just swap out cards etc with
intel/amd and they just work - no need to uninstall/reinstall
proprietary drivers and/or deal with the issues that seem to always
arise with new nvidia driver releases.
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On 02/11/2020 07:01, Phill Edwards wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 at 16:09, Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net
> <mailto:lists@glidos.net>> wrote:
>
>
>
>
> >> My research says Linux drivers are available for AMD, Nvidia, and
> >> Intel so I'm hoping Mythtv would work fine. However, my son says to
> >> stay with Radeon if I go Ryzen 5 3600 for gaming software
> >> compatibility. (I have no idea why)
> >>
> >> Any opinions on any of this?
> >>
> >> Jim A
> >>
> >That's waaaay more power than MythTV needs.
>
> Seconded. I've just started using this tiny thing for a front end:
> https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-n40-mini-pc. It
> plays everything I throw at it flawlessly. 1080p/i always perfectly
> smooth, including HEVC encoded video.
>
>
> Thirded. I know you said you want to run apps other than MythTV, but FYI
> I just bought a new Chromecast With Google TV and it runs MythTV
> Mythfrontend app and the Leanfront app fine. FYI for anyone else
> installing Mythfrontend, you need the 32 bit APK file.

Do you get flawlessly smooth playback of 1080i content on that when
using Mythfrontend? I've yet to achieve that on anything ARM based,
although I haven't tried any very recent hardware.

Paul.
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On 11/2/20 4:56 AM, Mark Kendall wrote:
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2020 at 23:00, James Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Looking for advice on what folks have working in their setup.
>>
>> I'm replacing my old Core i7 2700K system that uses an Nvidia GT-1030 GFX card. The reasons are other than Mythtv, but I want Mythtv to work just as well as it does today.
>>
>> I know the Core i7 10600K is a respectable 6 Core 12 thread CPU and it has Intel GFX. I'm not disappointed with what my GT-1030 is giving me, so I can always put that old card into the new system if the Intel GFX sucks. But then I'm wasting money on GFX I'm not using.
>>
>> I've been looking at the AMD Ryzen 5 3600 which is 6/12 core/thread and is very respected. If I get a 500 series motherboard it would also support the 5000 Zen 3 processors when they come out. I could use my GT-1030 GFX card or add a Radeon RX 570 GFX card and still be cheaper than the Intel Core i7 10600K.system.
>>
> Jim
>
> As others have said, this is complete overkill for a mythtv only
> frontend - but I'm assuming from your comments that you have other
> requirements.
>
> For reference, my main development system has a dual core celeron
> (G4920 - CoffeeLake).
>
> VAAPI support is flawless:
>
> VAAPIDec: EGL DMABUF available for best VAAPI performance
> VAAPIDec: MPEG2 Simple (Max size: 4096x4096)
> MPEG2 Main (Max size: 4096x4096)
> H264 Constrained (Max size: 4096x4096)
> H264 Main (Max size: 4096x4096)
> H264 High (Max size: 4096x4096)
> VC1 Simple (Max size: 4096x4096)
> VC1 Main (Max size: 4096x4096)
> VC1 Advanced (Max size: 4096x4096)
> VP8 (Max size: 4096x4096)
> HEVC Main (Max size: 4096x4096)
> HEVC Main10 (Max size: 4096x4096)
> VP9 Level 0 (Max size: 4096x4096)
> VP9 Level 2 (Max size: 4096x4096)
>
> It will playback just about any sensible clip I can throw at it (i.e.
> 5k/8k is a no go).
>
> Other use cases aside, with the current generation of CPUs I don't
> believe you need anything more than 2cores/4threads for pretty
> comfortable CPU performance (this does of course assume hardware
> decoding).
>
> Any integrated intel GPU from CoffeeLake above should be fine and
> VAAPI is, imho, the best supported and best performing API around for
> linux video.
>
> Integrated AMD GPUs should be fine as well - though I've only tested a
> cheapish external AMD gpu. AMD supports both VAAPI and VDPAU - but
> VAAPI is again the way to go.
>
> I've started looking around for an upgrade and am looking at a Ryzen 5
> 3400G. 4cores/8threads, Vega 11 graphics, reasonably priced. Put that
> in a reasonable motherboard and it should also offer an upgrade path
> for zen3 if needed.
>
> The only other concern I have when looking for new parts is to ensure
> HDM2.X support to ensure full 4K HDR support at 60fps. For integrated
> GPUs that is usually a motherboard issue/constraint.
>
> Regards
> Mark
>
> P.S. I also find NVidia is becoming increasingly troublesome to use
> when compared to intel/amd parts. I can just swap out cards etc with
> intel/amd and they just work - no need to uninstall/reinstall
> proprietary drivers and/or deal with the issues that seem to always
> arise with new nvidia driver releases.


If all I cared about was Mythtv I'm actually already good enough.

What I didn't get into, and I should have, was what else I wanted to do.

MythTV backend duties are on a remote backend built on another Core i7
2600 with software RAID used as a NAS and shared with CIFS/SMB and that
will remain unless the hardware finally dies.

My main TV has a Nvidia Shield TV for most all of my view needs,
Netflix, Youtube.TV, Prime TV, Leanfront, and mythtv-frontend. But that
TV has more or less become my "office" display when I do computer
related stuff like software development, etc.  On my current system, the
build from source of Mythtv, or Linux kernel, emulation with QEMU, or
virtualbox, can be a real workload.  For example bitbaking a Yocto
Project build for ARM for kernel plus QT can take a couple of hours

My thinking is those activities could really use some more
cores/threads. Please the VT- Technologies are now much modern than my
older 2nd gen core i7.

A big improvement is all the new motherboards have M-2 slots that
support PCI3x4 NVMe 2280 SSD modules that support 3,500MB/s read speeds.

I do want to use the new PC for mythtv frontend, gaming, and software
development and it sounds like any choice from Intel internal GFX to my
old GT1030 to any new AMD Radeon card will work for Mythtv.

So since my Mythtv frontend isn't a concern either way, I just need to
decide about future proofing vs. present cost.

The AMD solution using my old GT1030 would work fine for everything
because the 1030 is good enough today for GFX requirements  and the
system could be easily upgraded to Ryzen 5000 with just a CPU and cooler
replacement, and obviously a newer GFX card can be added at anytime.

The Intel solution with either GT1030 or Internal GFX sounds like it
would be upside, but $100 more and no history of upgrade without
motherboard change.

Appreciate the discussions.

Jim A

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On 11/2/20 5:20 AM, Paul Gardiner wrote:
> On 02/11/2020 07:01, Phill Edwards wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 at 16:09, Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net
>> <mailto:lists@glidos.net>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>      >> My research says Linux drivers are available for AMD, Nvidia,
>> and
>>      >> Intel so I'm hoping Mythtv would work fine. However, my son
>> says to
>>      >> stay with Radeon if I go Ryzen 5 3600 for gaming software
>>      >> compatibility. (I have no idea why)
>>      >>
>>      >> Any opinions on any of this?
>>      >>
>>      >> Jim A
>>      >>
>>      >That's waaaay more power than MythTV needs.
>>
>>     Seconded. I've just started using this tiny thing for a front end:
>> https://store.minisforum.com/products/minisforum-n40-mini-pc. It
>>     plays everything I throw at it flawlessly. 1080p/i always perfectly
>>     smooth, including HEVC encoded video.
>>
>>
>> Thirded. I know you said you want to run apps other than MythTV, but
>> FYI I just bought a new Chromecast With Google TV and it runs MythTV
>> Mythfrontend app and the Leanfront app fine. FYI for anyone else
>> installing Mythfrontend, you need the 32 bit APK file.
>
> Do you get flawlessly smooth playback of 1080i content on that when
> using Mythfrontend? I've yet to achieve that on anything ARM based,
> although I haven't tried any very recent hardware.
>
> Paul.


As to smooth playback on 1080i HD from an ARM device, I'd say yes to
Shield TV for sure, but no on any Raspberry PI 4.  I have a RPI4 mythtv
combo on the same UHD TV and you can really tell when you watch
mythfrontend on it.  The display is watchable but if your mind is in
comparison mode, it's not close. However, if you use Kodi 18 on the
RPI4, then Mythtv playback is pretty good, I'm not seeing any noticeable
flaws.

The RPI 4 combo is what I take to the RV when we go cross country
camping. Maybe we'll get back to that once the Covid vaccines are here.

Jim A


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On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 05:56:23 -0500, you wrote:

>A big improvement is all the new motherboards have M-2 slots that
>support PCI3x4 NVMe 2280 SSD modules that support 3,500MB/s read speeds.

Actually, PCIe 4.0 is now available on the latest motherboard M.2
slots, and there are some PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs available. At a price,
of course. But the speeds are staggering. This sort of thing in
combination with an up to date CPU would be really good for large
builds like kernels. I have just updated my mother's MythTV box with
a decent Ryzen 3 system and matching NVMe SSD and the build time on
the TBS DVB-S2 drivers (a full V4L build) is less than a third of what
it takes on my MythTV box. I am now planning upgrades for my systems,
as it is clearly worth doing now, even if you do not get high end
hardware. But I am waiting to see what the local prices for the new
Ryzen releases will be before I decide - I really would like to be
able to get PCIe 4.0. I think the planned release date is about 5th
Nov.
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On 11/2/20 9:12 AM, Stephen Worthington wrote:
> On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 05:56:23 -0500, you wrote:
>
>> A big improvement is all the new motherboards have M-2 slots that
>> support PCI3x4 NVMe 2280 SSD modules that support 3,500MB/s read speeds.
> Actually, PCIe 4.0 is now available on the latest motherboard M.2
> slots, and there are some PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs available. At a price,
> of course. But the speeds are staggering. This sort of thing in
> combination with an up to date CPU would be really good for large
> builds like kernels. I have just updated my mother's MythTV box with
> a decent Ryzen 3 system and matching NVMe SSD and the build time on
> the TBS DVB-S2 drivers (a full V4L build) is less than a third of what
> it takes on my MythTV box. I am now planning upgrades for my systems,
> as it is clearly worth doing now, even if you do not get high end
> hardware. But I am waiting to see what the local prices for the new
> Ryzen releases will be before I decide - I really would like to be
> able to get PCIe 4.0. I think the planned release date is about 5th
> Nov.


I going to wait a little long. It's been 9 years, so a little longer
will not hurt. With plenty of RAM and a SATA III SSD, my current system
doesn't suck.  The GT-1030 graphic is good for Mythtv and my limited
gaming needs. Like you, I'd like to see the new ryzen 5000 series with
PCIe 4.0. It's out to OEMs now, but retail is not out yet.  I talked
with a guy I used to work with at Intel and he's now at AMD.  Got some
details on the Zen 3 architecture.  We were both architectural
specialists back in the day.

This upgrade is far more fun that putting is a cam and new 4 barrel carb
into a 60's muscle car. :-)

Jim A



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On Mon, 2 Nov 2020 at 09:56, Mark Kendall <mark.kendall@gmail.com> wrote:
> Integrated AMD GPUs should be fine as well - though I've only tested a
> cheapish external AMD gpu. AMD supports both VAAPI and VDPAU - but
> VAAPI is again the way to go.

Having just put the cheap AMD card in to test something (RX 460)...

For completeness for anyone picking this thread up, my recollection of
AMD linux video support was not the best. VAAPI is fine but it lacks
the high quality deinterlacer in VPP and the medium quality
deinterlacer is a bit ropey. VDPAU looks much better. Obviously things
may be different for other GPUs.

Regards
Mark
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>
>
> > Thirded. I know you said you want to run apps other than MythTV, but FYI
> > I just bought a new Chromecast With Google TV and it runs MythTV
> > Mythfrontend app and the Leanfront app fine. FYI for anyone else
> > installing Mythfrontend, you need the 32 bit APK file.
>
> Do you get flawlessly smooth playback of 1080i content on that when
> using Mythfrontend? I've yet to achieve that on anything ARM based,
> although I haven't tried any very recent hardware.
>

Sorry, I don't know as I haven't tried it. I'm not sure if any of the
Australian DVB-T broadcasts are 1080i. But the device is supposed to
support 4K, so would that mean 1080i would be OK?

On 02/11/2020 07:01, Phill Edwards wrote:
>
> Thirded. I know you said you want to run apps other than MythTV, but FYI I just bought a new Chromecast With Google TV and it runs MythTV Mythfrontend app and the Leanfront app fine. FYI for anyone else installing Mythfrontend, you need the 32 bit APK file.

Interesting. How hard is it to get the frontend or lean front app installed on the chrome cast with google tv?

I would like to consider this to reduce the number of ‘boxes’ connected to the tv.

Does this device also do Amazon prime video as well?


Regards,

Jay

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On Tue, 3 Nov 2020 09:43:32 +1100, you wrote:

>>
>>
>> > Thirded. I know you said you want to run apps other than MythTV, but FYI
>> > I just bought a new Chromecast With Google TV and it runs MythTV
>> > Mythfrontend app and the Leanfront app fine. FYI for anyone else
>> > installing Mythfrontend, you need the 32 bit APK file.
>>
>> Do you get flawlessly smooth playback of 1080i content on that when
>> using Mythfrontend? I've yet to achieve that on anything ARM based,
>> although I haven't tried any very recent hardware.
>>
>
>Sorry, I don't know as I haven't tried it. I'm not sure if any of the
>Australian DVB-T broadcasts are 1080i. But the device is supposed to
>support 4K, so would that mean 1080i would be OK?

It is the i bit that is the problem usually. Interlaced video seems
to cause problems - it either needs to be deinterlaced, or the
TV/monitor has to support the interlaced mode properly and do the
deinterlacing itself, but needs to be put into the right mode to do
that. So 1080p (a higher mode than 1080i) is usually fine, but 1080i
may not be. A typical problem seen with bad deinterlacing in either
the PC, GPU or TV/monitor is that during pan shots, you get jerky
movement - a "judder" of the whole picture.
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>
>
> > Thirded. I know you said you want to run apps other than MythTV, but FYI
> I just bought a new Chromecast With Google TV and it runs MythTV
> Mythfrontend app and the Leanfront app fine. FYI for anyone else installing
> Mythfrontend, you need the 32 bit APK file.
>
> Interesting. How hard is it to get the frontend or lean front app
> installed on the chrome cast with google tv?
>
> Does this device also do Amazon prime video as well?
>

It's very simple to install apps from the Google Play Store. If they're not
in the Play Store, do this:

1. Install Solid Explorer from the Play Store.
2. Configure it to access your Google Drive.
3. On a different device, download the APK and save it to your Google
Drive.
4. Navigate to the APK in Solid Explorer and install it.


The device supports wherever services have Play Store apps. Amazon Prime
should therefore be OK, though I haven't tried it myself.

On Mon, Nov 2, 2020 at 8:48 PM Jay Harbeston <jharbestonus@gmail.com> wrote:

> On 02/11/2020 07:01, Phill Edwards wrote:
> >
> > Thirded. I know you said you want to run apps other than MythTV, but FYI
> I just bought a new Chromecast With Google TV and it runs MythTV
> Mythfrontend app and the Leanfront app fine. FYI for anyone else installing
> Mythfrontend, you need the 32 bit APK file.
>
> Interesting. How hard is it to get the frontend or lean front app
> installed on the chrome cast with google tv?
>
> I would like to consider this to reduce the number of ‘boxes’ connected to
> the tv.
>
> Does this device also do Amazon prime video as well?
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Jay
>

I have 2 streaming devices that both do: Prime Video, Youtube.TV, Hulu+,
SlingTV, and Netflix. All great and they both do Leanfront and
Mythtv-frontend.
FireTV 4K stick and Nvidia Shield TV (2017)
For $25 I'd just pick up a FireTV 4K

Jim A

On 02/11/2020 22:43, Phill Edwards wrote:
>
> > Thirded. I know you said you want to run apps other than MythTV,
> but FYI
> > I just bought a new Chromecast With Google TV and it runs MythTV
> > Mythfrontend app and the Leanfront app fine. FYI for anyone else
> > installing Mythfrontend, you need the 32 bit APK file.
>
> Do you get flawlessly smooth playback of 1080i content on that when
> using Mythfrontend? I've yet to achieve that on anything ARM based,
> although I haven't tried any very recent hardware.
>
>
> Sorry, I don't know as I haven't tried it. I'm not sure if any of the
> Australian DVB-T broadcasts are 1080i. But the device is supposed to
> support 4K, so would that mean 1080i would be OK?

You can determine if a video is progressing or interlaced during
playback by using Menu -> Video - Advanced (I think that's right). I'd
imagine most sports would be interlaced, and maybe news reports.
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On Tue, 3 Nov 2020 at 20:30, Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net> wrote:

> On 02/11/2020 22:43, Phill Edwards wrote:
> >
> > > Thirded. I know you said you want to run apps other than MythTV,
> > but FYI
> > > I just bought a new Chromecast With Google TV and it runs MythTV
> > > Mythfrontend app and the Leanfront app fine. FYI for anyone else
> > > installing Mythfrontend, you need the 32 bit APK file.
> >
> > Do you get flawlessly smooth playback of 1080i content on that when
> > using Mythfrontend? I've yet to achieve that on anything ARM based,
> > although I haven't tried any very recent hardware.
> >
> >
> > Sorry, I don't know as I haven't tried it. I'm not sure if any of the
> > Australian DVB-T broadcasts are 1080i. But the device is supposed to
> > support 4K, so would that mean 1080i would be OK?
>
> You can determine if a video is progressing or interlaced during
> playback by using Menu -> Video - Advanced (I think that's right). I'd
> imagine most sports would be interlaced, and maybe news reports.
>
>
Sadly, there are no Australian channels doing 1080p - the best they do is
1080i ... which as Stephen mentioned, often results in judder/jagging for
sport or panning type movies if not dealt with correctly.

On 11/3/20 6:34 AM, Owen wrote:
> On Tue, 3 Nov 2020 at 20:30, Paul Gardiner <lists@glidos.net
> <mailto:lists@glidos.net>> wrote:
>
> On 02/11/2020 22:43, Phill Edwards wrote:
> >
> >      > Thirded. I know you said you want to run apps other than
> MythTV,
> >     but FYI
> >      > I just bought a new Chromecast With Google TV and it runs
> MythTV
> >      > Mythfrontend app and the Leanfront app fine. FYI for
> anyone else
> >      > installing Mythfrontend, you need the 32 bit APK file.
> >
> >     Do you get flawlessly smooth playback of 1080i content on
> that when
> >     using Mythfrontend? I've yet to achieve that on anything ARM
> based,
> >     although I haven't tried any very recent hardware.
> >
> >
> > Sorry, I don't know as I haven't tried it. I'm not sure if any
> of the
> > Australian DVB-T broadcasts are 1080i. But the device is
> supposed to
> > support 4K, so would that mean 1080i would be OK?
>
> You can determine if a video is progressing or interlaced during
> playback by using Menu -> Video - Advanced (I think that's right).
> I'd
> imagine most sports would be interlaced, and maybe news reports.
>
>
> Sadly, there are no Australian channels doing 1080p - the best they do
> is 1080i ... which as Stephen mentioned, often results in
> judder/jagging for sport or panning type movies if not dealt with
> correctly.

In the USA, the OTA ATSC 1.0 is only either 1080i@30hz or 720P@60hz.  To
my eyes using a PC with something like a Nvidia GT 1030 GFX card I don't
see any problems with 1080i which is 1/2 my channels. I can't tell it
from 720p except using data like what you get with OSD Menu -> Playback
-> Playback Data.

On 1080i, I see FPS= 29.97+/- 0.03. On 720p, I see FPS 59.98+/-
0.05.That's using OpenGL High Quality software.

However, on the Nvidia Shield TV 2017 edition the android
mythtv-frontend shows about the same data but 1080i is +/- 0.07 jumping
to 0.12 occasionally.  720p is +/- 0.11 and steady.

I think a lot of this panning problem is due to broadcast choices.  I
notice the bits per second on my major networks is about 3-4 GB per
hour, but the sub networks show reruns of the same shows at 0.8 GB per
hour. They also use 480p but the panning jitter is really bad.

Jim A

On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM Jim Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:

> I think a lot of this panning problem is due to broadcast choices. I
> notice the bits per second on my major networks is about 3-4 GB per hour,
> but the sub networks show reruns of the same shows at 0.8 GB per hour. They
> also use 480p but the panning jitter is really bad.
>
> Jim A
>
If indeed the subchannels are 480p, then I don't think there's anything
your videocard/processing settings can really do to help; I don't think
there's any sort of algorithm to fix a progressive stream as technically
they shouldn't need to be fixed. That said, sometimes one can convince
ffmpeg to do strange things manually, and if really necessary avisynth can
pull lines out and restitch them together into fields with delay if
necessary or whatever is out of sync, but those are just pedantic
possibilities if you wanted to moonlight as a video restoration technician
or something. ;)

Mike

> On Nov 3, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Mike Hodson <mystica@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM Jim Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com <mailto:jfabernathy@gmail.com>> wrote:
> I think a lot of this panning problem is due to broadcast choices. I notice the bits per second on my major networks is about 3-4 GB per hour, but the sub networks show reruns of the same shows at 0.8 GB per hour. They also use 480p but the panning jitter is really bad.
>
> Jim A
>
> If indeed the subchannels are 480p, then I don't think there's anything your videocard/processing settings can really do to help; I don't think there's any sort of algorithm to fix a progressive stream as technically they shouldn't need to be fixed. That said, sometimes one can convince ffmpeg to do strange things manually, and if really necessary avisynth can pull lines out and restitch them together into fields with delay if necessary or whatever is out of sync, but those are just pedantic possibilities if you wanted to moonlight as a video restoration technician or something. ;)


All of the sub channels in our area (Wilmington NC) are 480i and not 480p.. so they are also interlaced.

The only ATSC broadcast I receive not interlaced is 720p. Everything else is interlaced.

Regards.

On 11/3/20 9:33 AM, Jay Harbeston wrote:
>
>
>> On Nov 3, 2020, at 9:22 AM, Mike Hodson <mystica@gmail.com
>> <mailto:mystica@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 3, 2020 at 5:15 AM Jim Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com
>> <mailto:jfabernathy@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> I think a lot of this panning problem is due to broadcast
>> choices.? I notice the bits per second on my major networks is
>> about 3-4 GB per hour, but the sub networks show reruns of the
>> same shows at 0.8 GB per hour. They also use 480p but the panning
>> jitter is really bad.
>>
>> Jim A
>>
>> If indeed the subchannels are 480p, then I don't think there's
>> anything your videocard/processing settings can really do to help; I
>> don't think there's any sort of algorithm to fix a progressive stream
>> as technically they shouldn't need to be fixed. That said, sometimes
>> one can convince ffmpeg to do strange things manually, and if really
>> necessary?avisynth can pull lines out and restitch them together into
>> fields with delay if necessary or whatever is out of sync, but those
>> are just pedantic possibilities if you wanted to moonlight as a video
>> restoration technician or something. ;)
>
>
> All of the sub channels in our area (Wilmington NC) are 480i and not
> 480p.. so they are also interlaced.
>
> The only ATSC broadcast I receive not interlaced is 720p. Everything
> else is interlaced.
>
> Regards.


My area is Raleigh, NC and ABC and Fox are 720p. CBS and NBC are 1080i.
What I see on those channels with mythtv on android is the same as I see
through my TV's own tuner.? So no complains at one time Leanfront was
better, but I now have mythfrontend profile setup correctly and
everything is good.? It all depends in whether or not I'm just watching
for entertainment or playing video engineer.

Jim A

> On 3 Nov 2020, at 8:14 pm, Jim Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Sadly, there are no Australian channels doing 1080p - the best they do is 1080i ... which as Stephen mentioned, often results in judder/jagging for sport or panning type movies if not dealt with correctly.

I recorded a few HD and ‘ordinary’ channels at the same time. (Australia ABC, SBS, 7, 9)
Looking at a paused scene in each recording they are, as far as I can see, identical.

Is this an artifact of TV in Australia or of mythtv rendering?
ie to paraphrase I see no difference on HD recordings, even though the HD recordings are larger.
eg
I look at some of Attenbourgh, pause playback and examin the insect's eyes . . .
James
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On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 13:51, James Linder <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:

>
>
> > On 3 Nov 2020, at 8:14 pm, Jim Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Sadly, there are no Australian channels doing 1080p - the best they do
> is 1080i ... which as Stephen mentioned, often results in judder/jagging
> for sport or panning type movies if not dealt with correctly.
>
> I recorded a few HD and ‘ordinary’ channels at the same time. (Australia
> ABC, SBS, 7, 9)
> Looking at a paused scene in each recording they are, as far as I can see,
> identical.
>
> Is this an artifact of TV in Australia or of mythtv rendering?
> ie to paraphrase I see no difference on HD recordings, even though the HD
> recordings are larger.
> eg
> I look at some of Attenbourgh, pause playback and examin the insect's eyes
> . . .
> James
>
>
I can only suggest that you must need a new Telly, or new eyes. ;-)
There's a massive difference between HD/SD channels when I look at them -
even live - I don't need to pause it to see the difference, it's extremely
noticeable.

Owen

> On 1 Dec 2020, at 6:30 pm, Owen <manicmoose@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, 4 Nov 2020 at 13:51, James Linder <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:
>
>
> > On 3 Nov 2020, at 8:14 pm, Jim Abernathy <jfabernathy@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Sadly, there are no Australian channels doing 1080p - the best they do is 1080i ... which as Stephen mentioned, often results in judder/jagging for sport or panning type movies if not dealt with correctly.
>
> I recorded a few HD and ‘ordinary’ channels at the same time. (Australia ABC, SBS, 7, 9)
> Looking at a paused scene in each recording they are, as far as I can see, identical.
>
> Is this an artifact of TV in Australia or of mythtv rendering?
> ie to paraphrase I see no difference on HD recordings, even though the HD recordings are larger.
> eg
> I look at some of Attenbourgh, pause playback and examin the insect's eyes . . .
> James
>
>
> I can only suggest that you must need a new Telly, or new eyes. ;-)
> There's a massive difference between HD/SD channels when I look at them - even live - I don't need to pause it to see the difference, it's extremely noticeable.

Owen thanks very much.
These are two screen shots on a macbook retina display (2650x1650) ish
They look similar on intel-1080 monitor. I'll examin a real TV now.
They are ABC SD and HD. My critical look is at the text, but scene changes do not make much difference.
http://tigger.ws/downloads/twoSD.png
http://tigger.ws/downloads/twoHD.png
Cheers
James

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On 12/1/20 6:45 AM, James Linder wrote:
> Owen thanks very much.
> These are two screen shots on a macbook retina display (2650x1650) ish
> They look similar on intel-1080 monitor. I'll examin a real TV now.
> They are ABC SD and HD. My critical look is at the text, but scene changes do not make much difference.
> http://tigger.ws/downloads/twoSD.png
> http://tigger.ws/downloads/twoHD.png


For an HD recording, the quality of the latter is quite poor. My hunch
is that it's 480p instead of HD (or whatever the p equivalent of the SD
signal in your region is).

To eliminate some variables, try running "ffprobe" on some recordings.
For example, here are a couple from my system:

Input #0, mpegts, from '2511_20201201120000.ts':
Duration: 01:00:30.42, start: 48950.153256, bitrate: 13824 kb/s
Program 1
Stream #0:0[0x641]: Video: mpeg2video (Main) ([2][0][0][0] /
0x0002), yuv420p(tv, bt709), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], Closed
Captions, max. 79975 kb/s, 29.97 fps, 29.97 tbr, 90k tbn, 59.94 tbc
Stream #0:1[0x642](eng): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz,
5.1(side), fltp, 384 kb/s
Stream #0:2[0x643](spa): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz,
stereo, fltp, 192 kb/s


Input #0, mpegts, from '2235_20201112050000.ts':
Duration: 01:22:29.28, start: 46678.077111, bitrate: 3161 kb/s
Program 1
Stream #0:0[0xb0f]: Video: mpeg2video (Main) ([2][0][0][0] /
0x0002), yuv420p(tv, smpte170m), 720x480 [SAR 8:9 DAR 4:3], Closed
Captions, max. 7500 kb/s, 29.97 fps, 29.97 tbr, 90k tbn, 59.94 tbc
Stream #0:1[0xb10](eng): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz,
5.1(side), fltp, 384 kb/s
Stream #0:2[0xb11](spa): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz,
stereo, fltp, 96 kb/s
Stream #0:3[0xb12]: Unknown: none ([134][0][0][0] / 0x0086)
Unsupported codec with id 0 for input stream 3



The first is HD, as indicated by the "1920x1080"
The second is considered SD, with a resolution of 720x480.


What is the resolution of the recording for what you used for the
"twoHD.png" screenshot?


-WD



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On 2020-12-01 6:45 a.m., James Linder wrote:

>> I can only suggest that you must need a new Telly, or new eyes. ;-)
>> There's a massive difference between HD/SD channels when I look at them - even live - I don't need to pause it to see the difference, it's extremely noticeable.
>
> Owen thanks very much.
> These are two screen shots on a macbook retina display (2650x1650) ish
> They look similar on intel-1080 monitor. I'll examin a real TV now.
> They are ABC SD and HD. My critical look is at the text, but scene changes do not make much difference.
> http://tigger.ws/downloads/twoSD.png
> http://tigger.ws/downloads/twoHD.png
> Cheers
> James

That second shot is NOT HD. It never was HD. It is a shot from the TV
show 'Doc Martin'. A quick look at IMDB shows that the show is now 10
seasons old and for at least the first 8 years filming was done with
*16mm film* (Arriflex cameras). The show would then have been scanned to
European standard broadcast (PAL / SECAM) and quite likely *from that*
to any other standard (NTSC). And your broadcast (originally in PAL)
would have then been further transcribed to DVB-T for broadcast.
So too many steps in that chain.

And that explains to me, why Doc Martin is always letterboxed when I see
it broadcast OTA *or* via cable from PBS Buffalo, New York: they cannot
do anything to change how it displays. Without looking I suspect that
OTA, on a 720i tv screen, I am seeing the original 576 line PAL scan image!

You need to find some real HD content. I suggest that you dial up some
on air sports, such as AFL and take a close look at panning scenes such
as where the camera follows a kick. (You may find it hard to record such
shows in SD, as nowadays, they are almost always in HD.)

Broadcasters can (and do) change the transmission rate for certain
shows. Each radio spectrum 'channel' has a limited amount of bandwidth:
about 20GB per hour total. So one digital stream within the 'channel'
can be given more of the bandwidth than normal and the subsidiary
'channels'/ digital streams are decreased.

For US broadcast, NBC increases the transmission rate for sports to
10-11 Gb per hour. This is especially visible when 'signature' sports
programs are being transmitted. Olympic hockey as a high motion sport
may get even more than 12GB. CBC does the same thing with sports. I
would bet that ABC (Oz) does the same.

Regular programs are 6-7 GB per hour while news and other 'static'
programs are even less than 5Gb. (Just look at the recorded program
size). The visual differences are notable and the exact decoding method
used (nvidia slim, high, opengl etc) make a visible difference for
tracking shots.

Geoff


R. Geoffrey Newbury

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> On 2 Dec 2020, at 12:06 am, Will Dormann <wdormann@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On 12/1/20 6:45 AM, James Linder wrote:
>> Owen thanks very much.
>> These are two screen shots on a macbook retina display (2650x1650) ish
>> They look similar on intel-1080 monitor. I'll examin a real TV now.
>> They are ABC SD and HD. My critical look is at the text, but scene changes do not make much difference.
>> http://tigger.ws/downloads/twoSD.png
>> http://tigger.ws/downloads/twoHD.png
>
>
> For an HD recording, the quality of the latter is quite poor. My hunch is that it's 480p instead of HD (or whatever the p equivalent of the SD signal in your region is).
>
> To eliminate some variables, try running "ffprobe" on some recordings. For example, here are a couple from my system:
>
> Input #0, mpegts, from '2511_20201201120000.ts':
> Duration: 01:00:30.42, start: 48950.153256, bitrate: 13824 kb/s
> Program 1
> Stream #0:0[0x641]: Video: mpeg2video (Main) ([2][0][0][0] / 0x0002), yuv420p(tv, bt709), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], Closed Captions, max. 79975 kb/s, 29.97 fps, 29.97 tbr, 90k tbn, 59.94 tbc
> Stream #0:1[0x642](eng): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz, 5.1(side), fltp, 384 kb/s
> Stream #0:2[0x643](spa): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 192 kb/s
>
>
> Input #0, mpegts, from '2235_20201112050000.ts':
> Duration: 01:22:29.28, start: 46678.077111, bitrate: 3161 kb/s
> Program 1
> Stream #0:0[0xb0f]: Video: mpeg2video (Main) ([2][0][0][0] / 0x0002), yuv420p(tv, smpte170m), 720x480 [SAR 8:9 DAR 4:3], Closed Captions, max. 7500 kb/s, 29.97 fps, 29.97 tbr, 90k tbn, 59.94 tbc
> Stream #0:1[0xb10](eng): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz, 5.1(side), fltp, 384 kb/s
> Stream #0:2[0xb11](spa): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 96 kb/s
> Stream #0:3[0xb12]: Unknown: none ([134][0][0][0] / 0x0086)
> Unsupported codec with id 0 for input stream 3
>
>
>
> The first is HD, as indicated by the "1920x1080"
> The second is considered SD, with a resolution of 720x480.
>
>
> What is the resolution of the recording for what you used for the "twoHD.png" screenshot?

I have not kept THOSE in HD as cutlist editing h264 is more of a pain, but here are two. That Doc Martin was probed too and was 1080P25
I asked about transmitters in perth, but I'll look at 'real TV' to see a difference. I can't believe that the 1/2 dozen frontends that I've put together, mostly various NUCs and macs, ALL have a resolution issue.

Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from '/store/Movies/Myth-K/Kingsman: The Secret Service.mp4':
Metadata:
major_brand : isom
minor_version : 512
compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41
encoder : Lavf58.29.100
Duration: 01:55:53.12, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 3127 kb/s
Stream #0:0(und): Video: h264 (High) (avc1 / 0x31637661), yuv420p(tv), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 2738 kb/s, 24.98 fps, 25 tbr, 90k tbn, 50 tbc (default)
Metadata:
handler_name : VideoHandler
Stream #0:1(eng): Audio: ac3 (ac-3 / 0x332D6361), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 384 kb/s (default)
Metadata:
handler_name : SoundHandler
Side data:
audio service type: main


Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from '/store/Movies/Myth-B/Barack Obama:The Interview.mp4':
Metadata:
major_brand : isom
minor_version : 512
compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41
encoder : Lavf58.29.100
Duration: 00:37:47.10, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 4413 kb/s
Stream #0:0(und): Video: h264 (High) (avc1 / 0x31637661), yuv420p(tv, bt709), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 4023 kb/s, 49.90 fps, 50 tbr, 90k tbn, 50 tbc (default)
Metadata:
handler_name : VideoHandler
Stream #0:1(eng): Audio: ac3 (ac-3 / 0x332D6361), 48000 Hz, 5.1(side), fltp, 384 kb/s (default)
Metadata:
handler_name : SoundHandler
Side data:
audio service type: main

As an a/b test is anybody able to post a decent quality HD recording somewhere that I can grab from?

thanks
James
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> On 2 Nov 2020, at 10:12 pm, Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>
>> A big improvement is all the new motherboards have M-2 slots that
>> support PCI3x4 NVMe 2280 SSD modules that support 3,500MB/s read speeds.
>
> Actually, PCIe 4.0 is now available on the latest motherboard M.2
> slots, and there are some PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs available. At a price,
> of course. But the speeds are staggering. This sort of thing in
> combination with an up to date CPU would be really good for large
> builds like kernels. I have just updated my mother's MythTV box with
> a decent Ryzen 3 system and matching NVMe SSD and the build time on
> the TBS DVB-S2 drivers (a full V4L build) is less than a third of what
> it takes on my MythTV box. I am now planning upgrades for my systems,
> as it is clearly worth doing now, even if you do not get high end
> hardware. But I am waiting to see what the local prices for the new
> Ryzen releases will be before I decide - I really would like to be
> able to get PCIe 4.0. I think the planned release date is about 5th
> Nov.

My backend (nuc gen 8)

/dev/nvme0n1p5:
Timing cached reads: 20684 MB in 1.99 seconds = 10393.20 MB/sec
Timing buffered disk reads: 8572 MB in 3.00 seconds = 2857.14 MB/sec

James
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[snip]

> On 2 Dec 2020, at 3:49 am, R. G. Newbury <newbury@mandamus.org> wrote:
>
> That second shot is NOT HD. It never was HD. It is a shot from the TV show 'Doc Martin'. A quick look at IMDB shows that the show is now 10 seasons old and for at least the first 8 years filming was done with *16mm film* (Arriflex cameras). The show would then have been scanned to European standard broadcast (PAL / SECAM) and quite likely *from that* to any other standard (NTSC). And your broadcast (originally in PAL) would have then been further transcribed to DVB-T for broadcast.
> So too many steps in that chain.

[snip]

In no way am I being anti, and I’m asking for help, so thanks, but since trying to solve a technical issue being pedantic is wise

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10087290/?ref_=ttep_ep5

October last year.
James
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On 02/12/2020 00:00, James Linder wrote:
>
>
>> On 2 Dec 2020, at 12:06 am, Will Dormann <wdormann@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> On 12/1/20 6:45 AM, James Linder wrote:
>>> Owen thanks very much.
>>> These are two screen shots on a macbook retina display (2650x1650) ish
>>> They look similar on intel-1080 monitor. I'll examin a real TV now.
>>> They are ABC SD and HD. My critical look is at the text, but scene changes do not make much difference.
>>> http://tigger.ws/downloads/twoSD.png
>>> http://tigger.ws/downloads/twoHD.png
>>
>>
>> For an HD recording, the quality of the latter is quite poor. My hunch is that it's 480p instead of HD (or whatever the p equivalent of the SD signal in your region is).
>>
>> To eliminate some variables, try running "ffprobe" on some recordings. For example, here are a couple from my system:
>>
>> Input #0, mpegts, from '2511_20201201120000.ts':
>> Duration: 01:00:30.42, start: 48950.153256, bitrate: 13824 kb/s
>> Program 1
>> Stream #0:0[0x641]: Video: mpeg2video (Main) ([2][0][0][0] / 0x0002), yuv420p(tv, bt709), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], Closed Captions, max. 79975 kb/s, 29.97 fps, 29.97 tbr, 90k tbn, 59.94 tbc
>> Stream #0:1[0x642](eng): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz, 5.1(side), fltp, 384 kb/s
>> Stream #0:2[0x643](spa): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 192 kb/s
>>
>>
>> Input #0, mpegts, from '2235_20201112050000.ts':
>> Duration: 01:22:29.28, start: 46678.077111, bitrate: 3161 kb/s
>> Program 1
>> Stream #0:0[0xb0f]: Video: mpeg2video (Main) ([2][0][0][0] / 0x0002), yuv420p(tv, smpte170m), 720x480 [SAR 8:9 DAR 4:3], Closed Captions, max. 7500 kb/s, 29.97 fps, 29.97 tbr, 90k tbn, 59.94 tbc
>> Stream #0:1[0xb10](eng): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz, 5.1(side), fltp, 384 kb/s
>> Stream #0:2[0xb11](spa): Audio: ac3 (AC-3 / 0x332D4341), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 96 kb/s
>> Stream #0:3[0xb12]: Unknown: none ([134][0][0][0] / 0x0086)
>> Unsupported codec with id 0 for input stream 3
>>
>>
>>
>> The first is HD, as indicated by the "1920x1080"
>> The second is considered SD, with a resolution of 720x480.
>>
>>
>> What is the resolution of the recording for what you used for the "twoHD.png" screenshot?
>
> I have not kept THOSE in HD as cutlist editing h264 is more of a pain, but here are two. That Doc Martin was probed too and was 1080P25
> I asked about transmitters in perth, but I'll look at 'real TV' to see a difference. I can't believe that the 1/2 dozen frontends that I've put together, mostly various NUCs and macs, ALL have a resolution issue.
>
> Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from '/store/Movies/Myth-K/Kingsman: The Secret Service.mp4':
> Metadata:
> major_brand : isom
> minor_version : 512
> compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41
> encoder : Lavf58.29.100
> Duration: 01:55:53.12, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 3127 kb/s
> Stream #0:0(und): Video: h264 (High) (avc1 / 0x31637661), yuv420p(tv), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 2738 kb/s, 24.98 fps, 25 tbr, 90k tbn, 50 tbc (default)
> Metadata:
> handler_name : VideoHandler
> Stream #0:1(eng): Audio: ac3 (ac-3 / 0x332D6361), 48000 Hz, stereo, fltp, 384 kb/s (default)
> Metadata:
> handler_name : SoundHandler
> Side data:
> audio service type: main
>
>
> Input #0, mov,mp4,m4a,3gp,3g2,mj2, from '/store/Movies/Myth-B/Barack Obama:The Interview.mp4':
> Metadata:
> major_brand : isom
> minor_version : 512
> compatible_brands: isomiso2avc1mp41
> encoder : Lavf58.29.100
> Duration: 00:37:47.10, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 4413 kb/s
> Stream #0:0(und): Video: h264 (High) (avc1 / 0x31637661), yuv420p(tv, bt709), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 4023 kb/s, 49.90 fps, 50 tbr, 90k tbn, 50 tbc (default)
> Metadata:
> handler_name : VideoHandler
> Stream #0:1(eng): Audio: ac3 (ac-3 / 0x332D6361), 48000 Hz, 5.1(side), fltp, 384 kb/s (default)
> Metadata:
> handler_name : SoundHandler
> Side data:
> audio service type: main
>
> As an a/b test is anybody able to post a decent quality HD recording somewhere that I can grab from?
>

Take your pick https://jell.yfish.us/
depending on what you have hardware support for :)


Regards
Stuart

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On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 10:21:58 +0800, you wrote:

>> On 2 Nov 2020, at 10:12 pm, Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>>
>>> A big improvement is all the new motherboards have M-2 slots that
>>> support PCI3x4 NVMe 2280 SSD modules that support 3,500MB/s read speeds.
>>
>> Actually, PCIe 4.0 is now available on the latest motherboard M.2
>> slots, and there are some PCIe 4.0 NVMe SSDs available. At a price,
>> of course. But the speeds are staggering. This sort of thing in
>> combination with an up to date CPU would be really good for large
>> builds like kernels. I have just updated my mother's MythTV box with
>> a decent Ryzen 3 system and matching NVMe SSD and the build time on
>> the TBS DVB-S2 drivers (a full V4L build) is less than a third of what
>> it takes on my MythTV box. I am now planning upgrades for my systems,
>> as it is clearly worth doing now, even if you do not get high end
>> hardware. But I am waiting to see what the local prices for the new
>> Ryzen releases will be before I decide - I really would like to be
>> able to get PCIe 4.0. I think the planned release date is about 5th
>> Nov.
>
>My backend (nuc gen 8)
>
>/dev/nvme0n1p5:
> Timing cached reads: 20684 MB in 1.99 seconds = 10393.20 MB/sec
> Timing buffered disk reads: 8572 MB in 3.00 seconds = 2857.14 MB/sec

Ignore the cached reads - they come from RAM. The buffered disk reads
look like an older SSD, probably PCIe 2.x - well less than half the
speed available on a PCIe 4.0 SSD. Of course, I do not actually have
a real PCIe 4.0 SSD to get speeds from, so I am just going by the
specifications.
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[snip]
>
> Take your pick https://jell.yfish.us/
> depending on what you have hardware support for :)
>

Thank you
James
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> On 2 Dec 2020, at 5:57 pm, James Linder <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:
>
>
> [snip]
>>
>> Take your pick https://jell.yfish.us/
>> depending on what you have hardware support for :)

Stuart thanks.
The quality of playback of the various 1080 jellyfish snips is way better than my OTA recordings, so my issue is NOT a mythtv render/playback one.
Both my mac and linux front end display the same issue and the test clips are good so my focus must be backend right?
The bit rate is not going to affect quality of slow moving jellyfish right?

James
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On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 23:36, James Linder <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:

>
>
> > On 2 Dec 2020, at 5:57 pm, James Linder <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:
> >
> >
> > [snip]
> >>
> >> Take your pick https://jell.yfish.us/
> >> depending on what you have hardware support for :)
>
> Stuart thanks.
> The quality of playback of the various 1080 jellyfish snips is way better
> than my OTA recordings, so my issue is NOT a mythtv render/playback one.
> Both my mac and linux front end display the same issue and the test clips
> are good so my focus must be backend right?
> The bit rate is not going to affect quality of slow moving jellyfish right?
>
>
Do you have separate sources defined in MythTV for SD and HD. Maybe your
HD card is connected to the SD source by mistake?

> On 3 Dec 2020, at 4:38 pm, David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, 2 Dec 2020 at 23:36, James Linder <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:
>
>
> > On 2 Dec 2020, at 5:57 pm, James Linder <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:
> >
> >
> > [snip]
> >>
> >> Take your pick https://jell.yfish.us/
> >> depending on what you have hardware support for :)
>
> Stuart thanks.
> The quality of playback of the various 1080 jellyfish snips is way better than my OTA recordings, so my issue is NOT a mythtv render/playback one.
> Both my mac and linux front end display the same issue and the test clips are good so my focus must be backend right?
> The bit rate is not going to affect quality of slow moving jellyfish right?
>
>
> Do you have separate sources defined in MythTV for SD and HD. Maybe your HD card is connected to the SD source by mistake?
>

I’m using haupauge twin OTA (DVB) tuners they do both SD and HD. I do not have seperate sources
James
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On 02/12/2020 23:34, James Linder wrote:
>
>
>> On 2 Dec 2020, at 5:57 pm, James Linder <jam@tigger.ws> wrote:
>>
>>
>> [snip]
>>>
>>> Take your pick https://jell.yfish.us/
>>> depending on what you have hardware support for :)
>
> Stuart thanks.
> The quality of playback of the various 1080 jellyfish snips is way better than my OTA recordings, so my issue is NOT a mythtv render/playback one.
> Both my mac and linux front end display the same issue and the test clips are good so my focus must be backend right?
> The bit rate is not going to affect quality of slow moving jellyfish right?
>

You might be running into the common problem of the broadcaster
compressing the crap out of the content to save bandwidth.

How do they make space for new channels???
Reduce the bandwidth of the existing channels (ie. reduce the quality)
and add a new channel in. *OR* they switch to a different encoding.
MPEG2 takes up more bandwidth than H264 for the same content quality.
H265 is even better...

It's not so prevalent on terrestrial broadcasts, but happens far more
often on satellite tv.

Sometimes I think that the quality of an "HD" channel these days is
about the same as the "SD" channels from a few years back.


Regards
Stuart

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>
>
> What are your HD recording filesizes, in GB/hour?

In the UK I generally see 1.3GB to 2GB/hour

SD is normally around 750MB/hour

It can vary significantly though depending on the channel and programme.
Should be a reasonable indication of the compression.

> On 3 Dec 2020, at 8:27 pm, David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> What are your HD recording filesizes, in GB/hour?
>
> In the UK I generally see 1.3GB to 2GB/hour
>
> SD is normally around 750MB/hour
>
> It can vary significantly though depending on the channel and programme. Should be a reasonable indication of the compression.
> _______________________________________________
>

Methinks Stuart hit the nail on the head.
My HD is so poor that I questioned if I was screwing up.

Duration: 00:37:47.10, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 4413 kb/s
Stream #0:0(und): Video: h264 (High) (avc1 / 0x31637661), yuv420p(tv, bt709), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 4023 kb/s, 49.90 fps, 50 tbr, 90k tbn, 50 tbc (default)
Metadata:


[sandypit] /home/jam [1004]% ls -hl /store/Movies/Myth-B/Barack\ Obama\:The\ Interview.mp4
-rw-r--r-- 1 jam users 1.2G Nov 24 11:27 '/store/Movies/Myth-B/Barack Obama:The Interview.mp4’

Thanks all for the input
James
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> On Dec 3, 2020, at 7:27 AM, David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> What are your HD recording filesizes, in GB/hour?
>
> In the UK I generally see 1.3GB to 2GB/hour
>
> SD is normally around 750MB/hour
>

Our 1080i broad casts in NC, USA ATSC 1.0 and mpeg2 range from3.6GB/hr to 4.3 GB/hr and 720p ranges from 2.5GB/hr to 4 GB/hr.

SD ranges from 600MB/hr to 1.2GB/hr.

Interestingly, I did a check on our hd broadcasts from 2013-2014, and our HD broadcasts were all around 7-8 GB/hr.

Just more data.

Regards.

On 12/3/20 8:12 AM, Jay Harbeston wrote:
>
>
>> On Dec 3, 2020, at 7:27 AM, David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com
>> <mailto:watkinshome@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> What are your HD recording filesizes, in GB/hour?
>>
>> In the UK I generally see 1.3GB to 2GB/hour
>>
>> SD is normally around 750MB/hour
>>
>
> Our 1080i broad casts in NC, USA ATSC 1.0 and mpeg2 range from3.6GB/hr
> to 4.3 GB/hr and 720p ranges from 2.5GB/hr ?to 4 GB/hr.
>
> SD ranges from 600MB/hr to 1.2GB/hr.
>
> Interestingly, I did a check on our hd broadcasts from 2013-2014, and
> our HD broadcasts were all around 7-8 GB/hr.
>
> Just more data.
>
> Regards.


I've been suspecting that MythTV frontends were not causing all the
artifacts I've been seeing.? I notice a wide range of GBs/hour lately.?
I record only USA OTA HD ATSC 1080i and 720P broadcasts and like
previously stated the HD file sizes have decreased since the FCC repack
of channels.

Jim A

On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 12:27:31 +0000, you wrote:

>>
>>
>> What are your HD recording filesizes, in GB/hour?
>
>In the UK I generally see 1.3GB to 2GB/hour
>
>SD is normally around 750MB/hour
>
>It can vary significantly though depending on the channel and programme.
>Should be a reasonable indication of the compression.

If that is H.265 it might be ok, but if it is H.264 then it is not
what I would call HD. Here in New Zealand our DVB-T HD programmes
(H.264) are over 3 Gibytes per hour. But when they first started,
when there were fewer channels, they were 4.5-5.5 Gibytes per hour.
And recently the only satellite service (Sky TV NZ) has converted all
their transponders from DVB-S to DVB-S2 and a number of their channels
are now around 4 Gibytes per hour.
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On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 14:33, Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz>
wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 12:27:31 +0000, you wrote:
>
> >>
> >>
> >> What are your HD recording filesizes, in GB/hour?
> >
> >In the UK I generally see 1.3GB to 2GB/hour
> >
> >SD is normally around 750MB/hour
> >
> >It can vary significantly though depending on the channel and programme.
> >Should be a reasonable indication of the compression.
>
> If that is H.265 it might be ok, but if it is H.264 then it is not
> what I would call HD. Here in New Zealand our DVB-T HD programmes
> (H.264) are over 3 Gibytes per hour. But when they first started,
> when there were fewer channels, they were 4.5-5.5 Gibytes per hour.
> And recently the only satellite service (Sky TV NZ) has converted all
> their transponders from DVB-S to DVB-S2 and a number of their channels
> are now around 4 Gibytes per hour.
>
>
That's interesting. What I said is typical of what I'm getting though here
in the UK.

[image: image.png]

I wonder if I should be getting 1080?

My TV is 42" 1080. So not so big, and my old eyes are fairly happy with the
HD quality I'm getting. The only thing I find poor is large black areas,
which can be very blocky.

I can feel a bit of research coming on.

D

On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 16:31, David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com> wrote:

>
>
> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 14:33, Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 12:27:31 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> What are your HD recording filesizes, in GB/hour?
>> >
>> >In the UK I generally see 1.3GB to 2GB/hour
>> >
>> >SD is normally around 750MB/hour
>> >
>> >It can vary significantly though depending on the channel and programme.
>> >Should be a reasonable indication of the compression.
>>
>> If that is H.265 it might be ok, but if it is H.264 then it is not
>> what I would call HD. Here in New Zealand our DVB-T HD programmes
>> (H.264) are over 3 Gibytes per hour. But when they first started,
>> when there were fewer channels, they were 4.5-5.5 Gibytes per hour.
>> And recently the only satellite service (Sky TV NZ) has converted all
>> their transponders from DVB-S to DVB-S2 and a number of their channels
>> are now around 4 Gibytes per hour.
>>
>>
> That's interesting. What I said is typical of what I'm getting though here
> in the UK.
>
> [image: image.png]
>
> I wonder if I should be getting 1080?
>
> My TV is 42" 1080. So not so big, and my old eyes are fairly happy with
> the HD quality I'm getting. The only thing I find poor is large black
> areas, which can be very blocky.
>
> I can feel a bit of research coming on.
>
> D
>
>

From the BBC Website

To be classed as "true" high definition, we encode in at least 1280x720
> resolution or 720p. We use h.264 with a bitrate of 3.2Mbps (going up to
> 5Mbps for best quality, should your connection allow) and 128kbps audio.
> This means that streaming programmes in HD quality will put demands on your
> network connection




By my calculation 3.2Mbps = 1.44 GBytes/hour. So I'm not losing anything.
That's what they're sending me.

D

On 2020-12-03 16:50, David Watkins wrote:

> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 16:31, David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 14:33, Stephen Worthington <stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote: On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 12:27:31 +0000, you wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>> What are your HD recording filesizes, in GB/hour?
>>
>> In the UK I generally see 1.3GB to 2GB/hour
>>
>> SD is normally around 750MB/hour
>>
>> It can vary significantly though depending on the channel and programme.
>> Should be a reasonable indication of the compression.
>
> If that is H.265 it might be ok, but if it is H.264 then it is not
> what I would call HD. Here in New Zealand our DVB-T HD programmes
> (H.264) are over 3 Gibytes per hour. But when they first started,
> when there were fewer channels, they were 4.5-5.5 Gibytes per hour.
> And recently the only satellite service (Sky TV NZ) has converted all
> their transponders from DVB-S to DVB-S2 and a number of their channels
> are now around 4 Gibytes per hour.
>
> That's interesting. What I said is typical of what I'm getting though here in the UK.
>
> I wonder if I should be getting 1080?
>
> My TV is 42" 1080. So not so big, and my old eyes are fairly happy with the HD quality I'm getting. The only thing I find poor is large black areas, which can be very blocky.
>
> I can feel a bit of research coming on.
>
> D

From the BBC Website

> To be classed as "true" high definition, we encode in at least 1280x720 resolution or 720p. We use h.264 with a bitrate of 3.2Mbps (going up to 5Mbps for best quality, should your connection allow) and 128kbps audio. This means that streaming programmes in HD quality will put demands on your network connection

>

By my calculation 3.2Mbps = 1.44 GBytes/hour. So I'm not losing
anything. That's what they're sending me.

But this thread is about broadcast and not streaming. I'm getting about
2GBytes per hour from a Freeview HD tuner for BBC One. Your mileage will
vary, especially on the commercial muxes where channel numbers seem to
be more important than quality. Freeview uses stochastic compression to
share variable compression rates between all the channels in real time.
Your beautiful wildlife scenery panning shot might go lumpy if someone
on the jewellery channel starts throwing glitter around.

CHeers,

Tim.

On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 17:08, TimP <mythtv@corky.co> wrote:

> On 2020-12-03 16:50, David Watkins wrote:
>
>
>
> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 16:31, David Watkins <watkinshome@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 at 14:33, Stephen Worthington <
>> stephen_agent@jsw.gen.nz> wrote:
>>
>>> On Thu, 3 Dec 2020 12:27:31 +0000, you wrote:
>>>
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> What are your HD recording filesizes, in GB/hour?
>>> >
>>> >In the UK I generally see 1.3GB to 2GB/hour
>>> >
>>> >SD is normally around 750MB/hour
>>> >
>>> >It can vary significantly though depending on the channel and programme.
>>> >Should be a reasonable indication of the compression.
>>>
>>> If that is H.265 it might be ok, but if it is H.264 then it is not
>>> what I would call HD. Here in New Zealand our DVB-T HD programmes
>>> (H.264) are over 3 Gibytes per hour. But when they first started,
>>> when there were fewer channels, they were 4.5-5.5 Gibytes per hour.
>>> And recently the only satellite service (Sky TV NZ) has converted all
>>> their transponders from DVB-S to DVB-S2 and a number of their channels
>>> are now around 4 Gibytes per hour.
>>>
>>>
>> That's interesting. What I said is typical of what I'm getting though
>> here in the UK.
>>
>> [image: image.png]
>>
>> I wonder if I should be getting 1080?
>>
>> My TV is 42" 1080. So not so big, and my old eyes are fairly happy with
>> the HD quality I'm getting. The only thing I find poor is large black
>> areas, which can be very blocky.
>>
>> I can feel a bit of research coming on.
>>
>> D
>>
>>
>
> From the BBC Website
>
>
>> To be classed as "true" high definition, we encode in at least 1280x720
>> resolution or 720p. We use h.264 with a bitrate of 3.2Mbps (going up to
>> 5Mbps for best quality, should your connection allow) and 128kbps audio.
>> This means that streaming programmes in HD quality will put demands on your
>> network connection
>
>
>
>
> By my calculation 3.2Mbps = 1.44 GBytes/hour. So I'm not losing
> anything. That's what they're sending me.
>
>
> But this thread is about broadcast and not streaming. I'm getting about
> 2GBytes per hour from a Freeview HD tuner for BBC One. Your mileage will
> vary, especially on the commercial muxes where channel numbers seem to be
> more important than quality. Freeview uses stochastic compression to share
> variable compression rates between all the channels in real time. Your
> beautiful wildlife scenery panning shot might go lumpy if someone on the
> jewellery channel starts throwing glitter around.
>
> CHeers,
>
> Tim.
>
I **was** talking about broadcast, (DVB-T2 from the Crystal Palace
Transmitter, London), but I was perhaps being a bit pessimistic about the
bit rates I'm getting. My last 7 recording from BBC 1 HD were:

1.92 GB/hr
2.03 GB/hr
1.68 GB/hr
2.04 GB/hr
2.47 GB/hr
2.19 GB/hr
1.64 GB/hr

So about 2GB/hr average.

> But this thread is about broadcast and not streaming. I'm getting about
>> 2GBytes per hour from a Freeview HD tuner for BBC One. Your mileage will
>> vary, especially on the commercial muxes where channel numbers seem to be
>> more important than quality. Freeview uses stochastic compression to share
>> variable compression rates between all the channels in real time. Your
>> beautiful wildlife scenery panning shot might go lumpy if someone on the
>> jewellery channel starts throwing glitter around.
>>
>> CHeers,
>>
>> Tim.
>>
> I **was** talking about broadcast,
>
>
..but just noticed that the snippet from the BBC website I included was
not. No reason to suppose they apply the same standard to their broadcasts
I guess?

Getting back to a more local (Aust) flavour around James' original
question, here are some recordings I have for an HD channel.

File DateTime DateTime
BitRate
1013_20200706104000.ts 2020-07-06 2928127448 5 262 kb/s
1013_20200713104500.ts 2020-07-13 2984810764 5 241 kb/s
1013_20200720112500.ts 2020-07-20 2872417596 5 234 kb/s
1013_20200727110100.ts 2020-07-27 2928784320 5 247 kb/s
1013_20200914104800.ts 2020-09-14 3011864528 5 257 kb/s
1013_20200921104300.ts 2020-09-21 2951399592 4 922 kb/s
1013_20200928110400.ts 2020-09-28 2683765424 4 710 kb/s
1013_20201005094000.ts 2020-10-05 2751309312 4 848 kb/s
1013_20201012095000.ts 2020-10-12 2521826360 4 465 kb/s
1013_20201019094000.ts 2020-10-19 2618064876 4 653 kb/s
1013_20201026094000.ts 2020-10-26 2571144212 4 563 kb/s
1013_20201102093800.ts 2020-11-02 2657489416 4 731 kb/s

So, even in the short space of 4 months, the network have reduced the
bitrate for the same program, on the same channel.

Should be advertised as "HD" not HD. ;-)

On 04/12/2020 01:07, Owen wrote:
> Getting back to a more local (Aust) flavour around James' original
> question, here are some recordings I have for an HD channel.
>
> File                                    DateTime      DateTime
> BitRate
> 1013_20200706104000.ts   2020-07-06   2928127448   5 262 kb/s
> 1013_20200713104500.ts   2020-07-13   2984810764   5 241 kb/s
> 1013_20200720112500.ts   2020-07-20   2872417596   5 234 kb/s
> 1013_20200727110100.ts   2020-07-27   2928784320   5 247 kb/s
> 1013_20200914104800.ts   2020-09-14   3011864528   5 257 kb/s
> 1013_20200921104300.ts   2020-09-21   2951399592   4 922 kb/s
> 1013_20200928110400.ts   2020-09-28   2683765424   4 710 kb/s
> 1013_20201005094000.ts   2020-10-05   2751309312   4 848 kb/s
> 1013_20201012095000.ts   2020-10-12   2521826360   4 465 kb/s
> 1013_20201019094000.ts   2020-10-19   2618064876   4 653 kb/s
> 1013_20201026094000.ts   2020-10-26   2571144212   4 563 kb/s
> 1013_20201102093800.ts   2020-11-02   2657489416   4 731 kb/s
>
> So, even in the short space of 4 months, the network have reduced the
> bitrate for the same program, on the same channel.
>
> Should be advertised as "HD" not HD.  ;-)
>
>

That's a favourite technique. Slowly decrease the quality so that
nobody notices it's not as good as it used to be.

I still have an HD recording from the early test broadcasts on
Crystal Palace.

2hrs, comes in at 21Gb ;-)

Gives you some idea how much they have reduced it over time....


Regards
Stuart


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> On 4 Dec 2020, at 10:58 pm, Stuart Auchterlonie <stuarta@squashedfrog.net> wrote:
>
> On 04/12/2020 01:07, Owen wrote:
>> Getting back to a more local (Aust) flavour around James' original question, here are some recordings I have for an HD channel.
>> File DateTime DateTime BitRate
>> 1013_20200706104000.ts 2020-07-06 2928127448 5 262 kb/s
>> 1013_20200713104500.ts 2020-07-13 2984810764 5 241 kb/s
>> 1013_20200720112500.ts 2020-07-20 2872417596 5 234 kb/s
>> 1013_20200727110100.ts 2020-07-27 2928784320 5 247 kb/s
>> 1013_20200914104800.ts 2020-09-14 3011864528 5 257 kb/s
>> 1013_20200921104300.ts 2020-09-21 2951399592 4 922 kb/s
>> 1013_20200928110400.ts 2020-09-28 2683765424 4 710 kb/s
>> 1013_20201005094000.ts 2020-10-05 2751309312 4 848 kb/s
>> 1013_20201012095000.ts 2020-10-12 2521826360 4 465 kb/s
>> 1013_20201019094000.ts 2020-10-19 2618064876 4 653 kb/s
>> 1013_20201026094000.ts 2020-10-26 2571144212 4 563 kb/s
>> 1013_20201102093800.ts 2020-11-02 2657489416 4 731 kb/s
>> So, even in the short space of 4 months, the network have reduced the bitrate for the same program, on the same channel.
>> Should be advertised as "HD" not HD. ;-)
>
> That's a favourite technique. Slowly decrease the quality so that
> nobody notices it's not as good as it used to be.
>
> I still have an HD recording from the early test broadcasts on
> Crystal Palace.
>
> 2hrs, comes in at 21Gb ;-)
>
> Gives you some idea how much they have reduced it over time…

Last night (Oz) ABC recorded live the coral spawning event on Barier Reef. (See Attenbourgh: world wide event 2-3 days after 1st full moon in november)
So one would hope that their preminum event was complimented by *real* HD

Duration: 00:44:55.75, start: 67127.860789, bitrate: 3151 kb/s
Stream #0:0[0x910]: Video: h264 (High), yuv420p(tv, top first), 1920x1080 [SAR 1:1 DAR 16:9], 25 fps, 25 tbr, 90k tbn, 50 tbc

<sob>
James
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