Mailing List Archive

Myself, I've tried with both a G400 and an
All-In-Wonder Radeon (the original R100 series), and
have had trouble with both. There is a kind soul
(thanks, Matt) who is assisting me with the G400 right
now, and there's a possibility that I'll actually get
it working. Hopefully. :)

Somebody else on the list once said, "the Radeons will
work, but if you spend more time than $30-$45, go out
and buy a GeForce card". I'd have to agree with this
sentiment, even though at the moment I'm unemployed
(so my time isn't worth much right now). I don't have
a GeForce card kicking around here, and I'm not going
to buy one, but I do have the G400 and Radeon here.

As for the Radeon, you can get TV Out to work - it's
quite the complicated procedure, and probably won't
work too well with many Linux distributions. You have
to install an older distro that has XFree86 4.2,
recompile the X Server with the Gatos "devel" branch,
and then TV Out will work. Unfortunately for me, in
doing that, and building MythTV, well, MythTV
segfaulted right away, definitely because of the
rebuilding of the X Server. (If anybody wants
detailed instructions on how I built it, let me know,
and I can post them. After getting TV Out booting
with X though, I don't think I can help).

If you're going to use a Radeon, expect to have to
build everything from source. I know how to do it,
it's just not worth my time.

At this point I'm looking at trying to get the G400 to
work again. If not, then I'm just going to get a scan
converter.

It all depends on how much money you are willing to
spend, and what you have already. I'm trying to get
TV Out with cards that I already have, but I wouldn't
buy any of these cards, unless soemthing was
guaranteed (and from reading the list archives, it
seems that nothing is guaranteed). You might want to
consider a scan converter also.

-- Joe

--- Ellen Spertus <spertus@mills.edu> wrote:
> What tv-out graphics card is most trouble-free? The
> database
>
(http://pvrhw.goldfish.org/tiki-page.php?pageName=pvrhw_gfx)
> lists 5
> cards, but notes that tv-out is reported not to work
> on two (Radeon 7500
> and Tachyon G9000 Pro). A third (S3 Savage 2000),
> which I own, has
> issues with xv. That leaves the following two
> cards:
>
> - ASUS nVidia V9180 Magic
> - Matrox Millennium G400
>
> I've seen people having problems with both on the
> list. Also, I'm
> wondering if cheaper nVidia GeForce4 MX 440-8x based
> cards would be as
> good as the ASUS.
>
> Thank you for any recommendations.
>
> Ellen
> > _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>


__________________________________
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On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 12:10, Ellen Spertus wrote:
> What tv-out graphics card is most trouble-free? The database
> (http://pvrhw.goldfish.org/tiki-page.php?pageName=pvrhw_gfx) lists 5
> cards, but notes that tv-out is reported not to work on two (Radeon 7500
> and Tachyon G9000 Pro). A third (S3 Savage 2000), which I own, has
> issues with xv. That leaves the following two cards:
>
> - ASUS nVidia V9180 Magic
> - Matrox Millennium G400
>
> I've seen people having problems with both on the list. Also, I'm
> wondering if cheaper nVidia GeForce4 MX 440-8x based cards would be as
> good as the ASUS.

Well, I've been using one of the nVidia GeForce Ti4200 cards and it just
plain works. I don't remember the manufacturer though...

My process for buying a video card for myth went like this:

Ian goes to store, asking, "where are the nvidia chipset video cards?"
Clerk shows me the ATI cards.
Ian moves onto the next store.
Repeat until I find a store with nvidia-chipset cards.
Once I find a store with nvidia cards, I look for one with tv-out...

and that's pretty much it! Building the driver was easy. Getting it to
display to the TV was easy. (Getting it to stop crashing when I exited
X was hard, but since I run myth fulltime on this box, I don't even care
about that anymore!)

-I
--
__________________________________
Ian Forde, RHCE, CCSE, SCNA, SCDME
CYTBeN, Inc.
ian@duckland.org / ian@cytben.com

I don't know what your time is worth to you, but mine is fairly precious.
With that said, go out and buy a Geforce4 MX440SE card w/TVout.
I got mine from newegg.com, it cost like $45. Install nvidia driver.
flawless TVout in less than 30 minutes. Mines' an Albatron. Unless you
are the type
that needs to bang your head on a wall to feel like you did something,
then get an ATI or something.

Joe V wrote:

>Myself, I've tried with both a G400 and an
>All-In-Wonder Radeon (the original R100 series), and
>have had trouble with both. There is a kind soul
>(thanks, Matt) who is assisting me with the G400 right
>now, and there's a possibility that I'll actually get
>it working. Hopefully. :)
>
>Somebody else on the list once said, "the Radeons will
>work, but if you spend more time than $30-$45, go out
>and buy a GeForce card". I'd have to agree with this
>sentiment, even though at the moment I'm unemployed
>(so my time isn't worth much right now). I don't have
>a GeForce card kicking around here, and I'm not going
>to buy one, but I do have the G400 and Radeon here.
>
>As for the Radeon, you can get TV Out to work - it's
>quite the complicated procedure, and probably won't
>work too well with many Linux distributions. You have
>to install an older distro that has XFree86 4.2,
>recompile the X Server with the Gatos "devel" branch,
>and then TV Out will work. Unfortunately for me, in
>doing that, and building MythTV, well, MythTV
>segfaulted right away, definitely because of the
>rebuilding of the X Server. (If anybody wants
>detailed instructions on how I built it, let me know,
>and I can post them. After getting TV Out booting
>with X though, I don't think I can help).
>
>If you're going to use a Radeon, expect to have to
>build everything from source. I know how to do it,
>it's just not worth my time.
>
>At this point I'm looking at trying to get the G400 to
>work again. If not, then I'm just going to get a scan
>converter.
>
>It all depends on how much money you are willing to
>spend, and what you have already. I'm trying to get
>TV Out with cards that I already have, but I wouldn't
>buy any of these cards, unless soemthing was
>guaranteed (and from reading the list archives, it
>seems that nothing is guaranteed). You might want to
>consider a scan converter also.
>
>-- Joe
>
>--- Ellen Spertus <spertus@mills.edu> wrote:
>
>
>>What tv-out graphics card is most trouble-free? The
>>database
>>
>>
>>
>(http://pvrhw.goldfish.org/tiki-page.php?pageName=pvrhw_gfx)
>
>
>>lists 5
>>cards, but notes that tv-out is reported not to work
>>on two (Radeon 7500
>>and Tachyon G9000 Pro). A third (S3 Savage 2000),
>>which I own, has
>>issues with xv. That leaves the following two
>>cards:
>>
>>- ASUS nVidia V9180 Magic
>>- Matrox Millennium G400
>>
>>I've seen people having problems with both on the
>>list. Also, I'm
>>wondering if cheaper nVidia GeForce4 MX 440-8x based
>>cards would be as
>>good as the ASUS.
>>
>>Thank you for any recommendations.
>>
>>Ellen
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>
>>>
>>mythtv-users mailing list
>>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>>
>>
>>
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
>
>
>__________________________________
>Do you Yahoo!?
>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
>http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>

_______________________________________________
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http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

I'm running a old geforce2mx card with no probs. nvtv works with this card
and allows overscanning too.



----- Original Message -----
From: "Ellen Spertus" <spertus@mills.edu>
To: <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
Cc: <spertus@mills.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 12:10 PM
Subject: [mythtv-users] Recommended graphics card with tv-out?


> What tv-out graphics card is most trouble-free? The database
> (http://pvrhw.goldfish.org/tiki-page.php?pageName=pvrhw_gfx) lists 5
> cards, but notes that tv-out is reported not to work on two (Radeon 7500
> and Tachyon G9000 Pro). A third (S3 Savage 2000), which I own, has
> issues with xv. That leaves the following two cards:
>
> - ASUS nVidia V9180 Magic
> - Matrox Millennium G400
>
> I've seen people having problems with both on the list. Also, I'm
> wondering if cheaper nVidia GeForce4 MX 440-8x based cards would be as
> good as the ASUS.
>
> Thank you for any recommendations.
>
> Ellen

Mark,

Like I said, at the moment, I'm currently unemployed,
and have been so for the last two months. Spending an
extra $45 to get a MythTV box working is not an option
for me right now, considering that I live in
California, and $45 is about 5% of my monthly rent.

At the moment, I'm trying to build a MythTV box out of
parts that I have lying around my apartment. I tend
to upgrade a fair amount, so I typically have parts
lying around.

In addition, should I get this working (which I think
I might be able to), it might save some people $45 (if
they, like me, have an older Radeon card lying
around), which they can use to offset the cost of a
hardware MPEG encoder or something.

I figure there'e no harm in trying. I'll be buying a
new box to run MythTV on anyway (since I'm finding my
Athlon 1.4 to be a bit sluggish), but I figure that if
I can reuse some of the other hardware, then I don't
have to spend as much money. Worst case scenario, I
shell out the money for a scan converter (I'd rather
do that than buy yet another video card, as I have two
perfectly good video cards here). And heck, it's fun,
I get a kick out of solving problems.

Maybe I lose some time, maybe I don't. It's quite
simple to get TV Out working at an older ATI Radeon,
and most of the time spent is the computer compiling
stuff. I start the compile, walk away, and check on
it inbetween innings of the baseball game. I was
thinking about it, and it might be as simple as
recompiling the X server and Qt, which for me is easy.

On the other hand, if I was employed right now, I
probably wouldn't be messing with any of this.

Now then, for the rest of you, if I actually get this
working, without it being completely convoluted (which
I think is possible), I'll post instructions to the
list, and later on, get them on my website.

-- Joe

--- Mark <fairlane@voyager.net> wrote:
> I don't know what your time is worth to you, but
> mine is fairly precious.
> With that said, go out and buy a Geforce4 MX440SE
> card w/TVout.
> I got mine from newegg.com, it cost like $45.
> Install nvidia driver.
> flawless TVout in less than 30 minutes. Mines' an
> Albatron. Unless you
> are the type
> that needs to bang your head on a wall to feel like
> you did something,
> then get an ATI or something.
>
> Joe V wrote:
>
> >Myself, I've tried with both a G400 and an
> >All-In-Wonder Radeon (the original R100 series),
> and
> >have had trouble with both. There is a kind soul
> >(thanks, Matt) who is assisting me with the G400
> right
> >now, and there's a possibility that I'll actually
> get
> >it working. Hopefully. :)
> >
> >Somebody else on the list once said, "the Radeons
> will
> >work, but if you spend more time than $30-$45, go
> out
> >and buy a GeForce card". I'd have to agree with
> this
> >sentiment, even though at the moment I'm unemployed
> >(so my time isn't worth much right now). I don't
> have
> >a GeForce card kicking around here, and I'm not
> going
> >to buy one, but I do have the G400 and Radeon here.
> >
> >As for the Radeon, you can get TV Out to work -
> it's
> >quite the complicated procedure, and probably won't
> >work too well with many Linux distributions. You
> have
> >to install an older distro that has XFree86 4.2,
> >recompile the X Server with the Gatos "devel"
> branch,
> >and then TV Out will work. Unfortunately for me,
> in
> >doing that, and building MythTV, well, MythTV
> >segfaulted right away, definitely because of the
> >rebuilding of the X Server. (If anybody wants
> >detailed instructions on how I built it, let me
> know,
> >and I can post them. After getting TV Out booting
> >with X though, I don't think I can help).
> >
> >If you're going to use a Radeon, expect to have to
> >build everything from source. I know how to do it,
> >it's just not worth my time.
> >
> >At this point I'm looking at trying to get the G400
> to
> >work again. If not, then I'm just going to get a
> scan
> >converter.
> >
> >It all depends on how much money you are willing to
> >spend, and what you have already. I'm trying to
> get
> >TV Out with cards that I already have, but I
> wouldn't
> >buy any of these cards, unless soemthing was
> >guaranteed (and from reading the list archives, it
> >seems that nothing is guaranteed). You might want
> to
> >consider a scan converter also.
> >
> >-- Joe
> >
> >--- Ellen Spertus <spertus@mills.edu> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>What tv-out graphics card is most trouble-free?
> The
> >>database
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>(http://pvrhw.goldfish.org/tiki-page.php?pageName=pvrhw_gfx)
> >
> >
> >>lists 5
> >>cards, but notes that tv-out is reported not to
> work
> >>on two (Radeon 7500
> >>and Tachyon G9000 Pro). A third (S3 Savage 2000),
> >>which I own, has
> >>issues with xv. That leaves the following two
> >>cards:
> >>
> >>- ASUS nVidia V9180 Magic
> >>- Matrox Millennium G400
> >>
> >>I've seen people having problems with both on the
> >>list. Also, I'm
> >>wondering if cheaper nVidia GeForce4 MX 440-8x
> based
> >>cards would be as
> >>good as the ASUS.
> >>
> >>Thank you for any recommendations.
> >>
> >>Ellen
> >>
> >>
> >>>_______________________________________________
> >>>
> >>>
> >>mythtv-users mailing list
> >>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >__________________________________
> >Do you Yahoo!?
> >Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
> design software
> >http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
> >
> >
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> >_______________________________________________
> >mythtv-users mailing list
> >mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users


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Ellen,
I'm using the Asus V9180 Magic. It works great and the driver install
is quite easy. Just follow the detailed instructions that the driver
installs in /usr/share/doc/NVIDIA_GLX-1.0 Here's were you can find the
latest linux nvidia drivers. http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux.html

I'm running RedHat 9 with kernel 2.4.21. If you run into problems I'll
gladly share any config file info you might need help on. I'm using
the S-video output and didn't need any overscan adjustments. I'm very
happy with the video quality. My system uses the pvr-250 at 720x480
and the picture looks as good as the tv's built-in tuner.

Mark:

Where can I find instructions for setting up this card?
I just got hold of a G4 MX 440 with the TV-out. I would like to
set this up on my Myth box.

Which nvidia driver are you referring to? Any how-to's or hints?

TIA,

Steve B.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark" <>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users@mythtv.org>
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 5:24 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Recommended graphics card with tv-out?


> I don't know what your time is worth to you, but mine is fairly precious.
> With that said, go out and buy a Geforce4 MX440SE card w/TVout.
> I got mine from newegg.com, it cost like $45. Install nvidia driver.
> flawless TVout in less than 30 minutes. Mines' an Albatron. Unless you
> are the type
> that needs to bang your head on a wall to feel like you did something,
> then get an ATI or something.
>

<snip>


_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

> -----Original Message-----
> From: mythtv-users-bounces@mythtv.org
> [mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@mythtv.org]On Behalf Of Steve B.
> Sent: Monday, August 04, 2003 3:24 PM
> To: Discussion about mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Recommended graphics card with tv-out?
>
>
> Mark:
>
> Where can I find instructions for setting up this card?
> I just got hold of a G4 MX 440 with the TV-out. I would like to
> set this up on my Myth box.
>
> Which nvidia driver are you referring to? Any how-to's or hints?
>
> TIA,
>
> Steve B.

I have a GeForce4 MX 420. Using the 4363 Nvidia binary drivers. XF86Config
attached.

-JAC

> I just got hold of a G4 MX 440 with the TV-out. I would like to
> set this up on my Myth box.
>
> Which nvidia driver are you referring to?

Nvidia Linux drivers for your card live here:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/linux_display_ia32_1.0-4496.html

Or you can go to www.nvidia.com and follow the menus.

> Any how-to's or hints?

The README.txt file (/usr/share/doc/NVIDIA_GLX-1.0/README post-install) that
comes with the driver is actually very informative.

--
Anduin Withers


_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Did you actually ever get it to stop crashing when exiting X? I have the
exact same problem. Works perfectly with everything else, except exiting
X, oh and fullscreen xmame will do it as well. If you have any clue how
to get it to work I'd be eternally grateful.

Jason Schloer


-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces@mythtv.org
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@mythtv.org] On Behalf Of Ian Forde
Sent: Sunday, August 03, 2003 3:37 PM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Cc: spertus@mills.edu
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Recommended graphics card with tv-out?

On Sun, 2003-08-03 at 12:10, Ellen Spertus wrote:
> What tv-out graphics card is most trouble-free? The database
> (http://pvrhw.goldfish.org/tiki-page.php?pageName=pvrhw_gfx) lists 5
> cards, but notes that tv-out is reported not to work on two (Radeon
7500
> and Tachyon G9000 Pro). A third (S3 Savage 2000), which I own, has
> issues with xv. That leaves the following two cards:
>
> - ASUS nVidia V9180 Magic
> - Matrox Millennium G400
>
> I've seen people having problems with both on the list. Also, I'm
> wondering if cheaper nVidia GeForce4 MX 440-8x based cards would be as
> good as the ASUS.

Well, I've been using one of the nVidia GeForce Ti4200 cards and it just
plain works. I don't remember the manufacturer though...

My process for buying a video card for myth went like this:

Ian goes to store, asking, "where are the nvidia chipset video cards?"
Clerk shows me the ATI cards.
Ian moves onto the next store.
Repeat until I find a store with nvidia-chipset cards.
Once I find a store with nvidia cards, I look for one with tv-out...

and that's pretty much it! Building the driver was easy. Getting it to
display to the TV was easy. (Getting it to stop crashing when I exited
X was hard, but since I run myth fulltime on this box, I don't even care
about that anymore!)

-I
--
__________________________________
Ian Forde, RHCE, CCSE, SCNA, SCDME
CYTBeN, Inc.
ian@duckland.org / ian@cytben.com

I put a disclaimer in the first sentence. "If your time is worth
something to you.... "
If you are unemployed, your time is worth something less than it was, no?

Joe V wrote:

>Mark,
>
>Like I said, at the moment, I'm currently unemployed,
>and have been so for the last two months. Spending an
>extra $45 to get a MythTV box working is not an option
>for me right now, considering that I live in
>California, and $45 is about 5% of my monthly rent.
>
>At the moment, I'm trying to build a MythTV box out of
>parts that I have lying around my apartment. I tend
>to upgrade a fair amount, so I typically have parts
>lying around.
>
>In addition, should I get this working (which I think
>I might be able to), it might save some people $45 (if
>they, like me, have an older Radeon card lying
>around), which they can use to offset the cost of a
>hardware MPEG encoder or something.
>
>I figure there'e no harm in trying. I'll be buying a
>new box to run MythTV on anyway (since I'm finding my
>Athlon 1.4 to be a bit sluggish), but I figure that if
>I can reuse some of the other hardware, then I don't
>have to spend as much money. Worst case scenario, I
>shell out the money for a scan converter (I'd rather
>do that than buy yet another video card, as I have two
>perfectly good video cards here). And heck, it's fun,
>I get a kick out of solving problems.
>
>Maybe I lose some time, maybe I don't. It's quite
>simple to get TV Out working at an older ATI Radeon,
>and most of the time spent is the computer compiling
>stuff. I start the compile, walk away, and check on
>it inbetween innings of the baseball game. I was
>thinking about it, and it might be as simple as
>recompiling the X server and Qt, which for me is easy.
>
>On the other hand, if I was employed right now, I
>probably wouldn't be messing with any of this.
>
>Now then, for the rest of you, if I actually get this
>working, without it being completely convoluted (which
>I think is possible), I'll post instructions to the
>list, and later on, get them on my website.
>
>-- Joe
>
>--- Mark <fairlane@voyager.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I don't know what your time is worth to you, but
>>mine is fairly precious.
>>With that said, go out and buy a Geforce4 MX440SE
>>card w/TVout.
>>I got mine from newegg.com, it cost like $45.
>>Install nvidia driver.
>>flawless TVout in less than 30 minutes. Mines' an
>>Albatron. Unless you
>>are the type
>>that needs to bang your head on a wall to feel like
>>you did something,
>>then get an ATI or something.
>>
>>Joe V wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Myself, I've tried with both a G400 and an
>>>All-In-Wonder Radeon (the original R100 series),
>>>
>>>
>>and
>>
>>
>>>have had trouble with both. There is a kind soul
>>>(thanks, Matt) who is assisting me with the G400
>>>
>>>
>>right
>>
>>
>>>now, and there's a possibility that I'll actually
>>>
>>>
>>get
>>
>>
>>>it working. Hopefully. :)
>>>
>>>Somebody else on the list once said, "the Radeons
>>>
>>>
>>will
>>
>>
>>>work, but if you spend more time than $30-$45, go
>>>
>>>
>>out
>>
>>
>>>and buy a GeForce card". I'd have to agree with
>>>
>>>
>>this
>>
>>
>>>sentiment, even though at the moment I'm unemployed
>>>(so my time isn't worth much right now). I don't
>>>
>>>
>>have
>>
>>
>>>a GeForce card kicking around here, and I'm not
>>>
>>>
>>going
>>
>>
>>>to buy one, but I do have the G400 and Radeon here.
>>>
>>>As for the Radeon, you can get TV Out to work -
>>>
>>>
>>it's
>>
>>
>>>quite the complicated procedure, and probably won't
>>>work too well with many Linux distributions. You
>>>
>>>
>>have
>>
>>
>>>to install an older distro that has XFree86 4.2,
>>>recompile the X Server with the Gatos "devel"
>>>
>>>
>>branch,
>>
>>
>>>and then TV Out will work. Unfortunately for me,
>>>
>>>
>>in
>>
>>
>>>doing that, and building MythTV, well, MythTV
>>>segfaulted right away, definitely because of the
>>>rebuilding of the X Server. (If anybody wants
>>>detailed instructions on how I built it, let me
>>>
>>>
>>know,
>>
>>
>>>and I can post them. After getting TV Out booting
>>>with X though, I don't think I can help).
>>>
>>>If you're going to use a Radeon, expect to have to
>>>build everything from source. I know how to do it,
>>>it's just not worth my time.
>>>
>>>At this point I'm looking at trying to get the G400
>>>
>>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>>work again. If not, then I'm just going to get a
>>>
>>>
>>scan
>>
>>
>>>converter.
>>>
>>>It all depends on how much money you are willing to
>>>spend, and what you have already. I'm trying to
>>>
>>>
>>get
>>
>>
>>>TV Out with cards that I already have, but I
>>>
>>>
>>wouldn't
>>
>>
>>>buy any of these cards, unless soemthing was
>>>guaranteed (and from reading the list archives, it
>>>seems that nothing is guaranteed). You might want
>>>
>>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>>consider a scan converter also.
>>>
>>>-- Joe
>>>
>>>--- Ellen Spertus <spertus@mills.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>What tv-out graphics card is most trouble-free?
>>>>
>>>>
>>The
>>
>>
>>>>database
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>(http://pvrhw.goldfish.org/tiki-page.php?pageName=pvrhw_gfx)
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>lists 5
>>>>cards, but notes that tv-out is reported not to
>>>>
>>>>
>>work
>>
>>
>>>>on two (Radeon 7500
>>>>and Tachyon G9000 Pro). A third (S3 Savage 2000),
>>>>which I own, has
>>>>issues with xv. That leaves the following two
>>>>cards:
>>>>
>>>>- ASUS nVidia V9180 Magic
>>>>- Matrox Millennium G400
>>>>
>>>>I've seen people having problems with both on the
>>>>list. Also, I'm
>>>>wondering if cheaper nVidia GeForce4 MX 440-8x
>>>>
>>>>
>>based
>>
>>
>>>>cards would be as
>>>>good as the ASUS.
>>>>
>>>>Thank you for any recommendations.
>>>>
>>>>Ellen
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>mythtv-users mailing list
>>>>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>__________________________________
>>>Do you Yahoo!?
>>>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site
>>>
>>>
>>design software
>>
>>
>>>http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>mythtv-users mailing list
>>>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>>>
>>>
>>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>>
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>_______________________________________________
>>mythtv-users mailing list
>>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>>
>>
>>
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>
>__________________________________
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>Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
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>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users@mythtv.org
>http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>

_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@mythtv.org
http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

At the moment, yes, my time is worth less than when I
was working. If I could justify the money, I'd just
drive to Fry's and pick up a GeForce 4 card with TV
Out and be done with it all. Besides, I'm bored at
the moment. :)

After about two days of working on this, I have made
the following conclusions:
1. Yes, it is possible to use an ATI AIW Radeon card
for TV Out for MythTV.
2. I would not recommend it if getting another video
card or a scan converter is possible (or, unless you
have time to burn)
3. The picture on it is actually superior than what I
have gotten to work on my Matrox G400 DualHead w/TV
Out (thus far). I've never seen TV Out on an nVidia
card, so I can't compare.
4. It's a pain in the butt, and I haven't gotten it
fully working (though if I don't get the G400 working,
I might go back to it). Most of the time spent though
is waiting for software to compile, it's not too
complicated.
5. When you customize RedHat's package list and tell
it not to install X or desktop environments, it goes
behind your back and does it anyway (RedHat 9)

Now then, how I got it to work (for those interested),
not detailed instructions:
1. You need the GATOS "devel" branch code.
2. You need to build XFree86 4.2.0 from scratch
3. You need to rebuild Qt 3.x

Doing this, I got MythTV working with TV Out, the
image had excellent colors, by default was stretched
to about 97% of the screen width. By playing around
with the over/underscanning and positioning within
MythTV, I was able to get a very satisfactory picture
(the GUI itself was fullscreen, and fine). However,
the font sizes were way too small, and it didn't use
the correct font for the theme (I suspect that this
was an issue with FreeType, or the X server
configuration, I never fully investigated it).

Now then, like I said, if I don't get this G400 I have
kicking around to work, then I might go back to it.
But, don't anybody wait for me to do it, just in case
I never get around to it. :)

-- Joe

--- Mark <fairlane@voyager.net> wrote:
> I put a disclaimer in the first sentence. "If your
> time is worth
> something to you.... "
> If you are unemployed, your time is worth something
> less than it was, no?
>
> Joe V wrote:
>
> >Mark,
> >
> >Like I said, at the moment, I'm currently
> unemployed,
> >and have been so for the last two months. Spending
> an
> >extra $45 to get a MythTV box working is not an
> option
> >for me right now, considering that I live in
> >California, and $45 is about 5% of my monthly rent.
> >
> >At the moment, I'm trying to build a MythTV box out
> of
> >parts that I have lying around my apartment. I
> tend
> >to upgrade a fair amount, so I typically have parts
> >lying around.
> >
> >In addition, should I get this working (which I
> think
> >I might be able to), it might save some people $45
> (if
> >they, like me, have an older Radeon card lying
> >around), which they can use to offset the cost of a
> >hardware MPEG encoder or something.
> >
> >I figure there'e no harm in trying. I'll be buying
> a
> >new box to run MythTV on anyway (since I'm finding
> my
> >Athlon 1.4 to be a bit sluggish), but I figure that
> if
> >I can reuse some of the other hardware, then I
> don't
> >have to spend as much money. Worst case scenario,
> I
> >shell out the money for a scan converter (I'd
> rather
> >do that than buy yet another video card, as I have
> two
> >perfectly good video cards here). And heck, it's
> fun,
> >I get a kick out of solving problems.
> >
> >Maybe I lose some time, maybe I don't. It's quite
> >simple to get TV Out working at an older ATI
> Radeon,
> >and most of the time spent is the computer
> compiling
> >stuff. I start the compile, walk away, and check
> on
> >it inbetween innings of the baseball game. I was
> >thinking about it, and it might be as simple as
> >recompiling the X server and Qt, which for me is
> easy.
> >
> >On the other hand, if I was employed right now, I
> >probably wouldn't be messing with any of this.
> >
> >Now then, for the rest of you, if I actually get
> this
> >working, without it being completely convoluted
> (which
> >I think is possible), I'll post instructions to the
> >list, and later on, get them on my website.
> >
> >-- Joe
> >
> >--- Mark <fairlane@voyager.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I don't know what your time is worth to you, but
> >>mine is fairly precious.
> >>With that said, go out and buy a Geforce4 MX440SE
> >>card w/TVout.
> >>I got mine from newegg.com, it cost like $45.
> >>Install nvidia driver.
> >>flawless TVout in less than 30 minutes. Mines' an
> >>Albatron. Unless you
> >>are the type
> >>that needs to bang your head on a wall to feel
> like
> >>you did something,
> >>then get an ATI or something.
> >>
> >>Joe V wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Myself, I've tried with both a G400 and an
> >>>All-In-Wonder Radeon (the original R100 series),
> >>>
> >>>
> >>and
> >>
> >>
> >>>have had trouble with both. There is a kind soul
> >>>(thanks, Matt) who is assisting me with the G400
> >>>
> >>>
> >>right
> >>
> >>
> >>>now, and there's a possibility that I'll actually
> >>>
> >>>
> >>get
> >>
> >>
> >>>it working. Hopefully. :)
> >>>
> >>>Somebody else on the list once said, "the Radeons
> >>>
> >>>
> >>will
> >>
> >>
> >>>work, but if you spend more time than $30-$45, go
> >>>
> >>>
> >>out
> >>
> >>
> >>>and buy a GeForce card". I'd have to agree with
> >>>
> >>>
> >>this
> >>
> >>
> >>>sentiment, even though at the moment I'm
> unemployed
> >>>(so my time isn't worth much right now). I don't
> >>>
> >>>
> >>have
> >>
> >>
> >>>a GeForce card kicking around here, and I'm not
> >>>
> >>>
> >>going
> >>
> >>
> >>>to buy one, but I do have the G400 and Radeon
> here.
> >>>
> >>>As for the Radeon, you can get TV Out to work -
> >>>
> >>>
> >>it's
> >>
> >>
> >>>quite the complicated procedure, and probably
> won't
> >>>work too well with many Linux distributions. You
> >>>
> >>>
> >>have
> >>
> >>
> >>>to install an older distro that has XFree86 4.2,
> >>>recompile the X Server with the Gatos "devel"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>branch,
> >>
> >>
> >>>and then TV Out will work. Unfortunately for me,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>in
> >>
> >>
> >>>doing that, and building MythTV, well, MythTV
> >>>segfaulted right away, definitely because of the
> >>>rebuilding of the X Server. (If anybody wants
> >>>detailed instructions on how I built it, let me
> >>>
> >>>
> >>know,
> >>
> >>
> >>>and I can post them. After getting TV Out
> booting
> >>>with X though, I don't think I can help).
> >>>
> >>>If you're going to use a Radeon, expect to have
> to
> >>>build everything from source. I know how to do
> it,
> >>>it's just not worth my time.
> >>>
> >>>At this point I'm looking at trying to get the
> G400
>
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________
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On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 12:54, Jason Schloer wrote:
> Did you actually ever get it to stop crashing when exiting X? I have the
> exact same problem. Works perfectly with everything else, except exiting
> X, oh and fullscreen xmame will do it as well. If you have any clue how
> to get it to work I'd be eternally grateful.

Yeah, but I'm not sure what did it. I've attached my XF86Config file.
I also ended up disabling everything even closely related to power
management (APM) from the BIOS settings...

-I

--
__________________________________
Ian Forde, RHCE, CCSE, SCNA, SCDME
CYTBeN, Inc.
ian@duckland.org / ian@cytben.com

Mark,

In my quest to find the best TV Out picture, as I'm
sure you know, I'm exploring different options (I
know, I'm beating a dead horse here). My goal is to
have the picture scale on my TV set, as close to as
well as my TV displays the incoming cable signal (I
hate borders). If a GeForce4 card will do that, I'd
be willing to get one (as either a little treat, or
once I get myself a job, depending on the price).

Anyway, I was wondering how small you can shrink the
borders to without losing any of the picture (it seems
that the binary nVidia drivers are half-decent for
that, so I'm hearing on the list). Here's what I've
measured with a ruler (yeah, I know, not quite
scientific):
Normal TV: 1/4" border left, right, bottom, 1/8" top
G400 TV Out:: 1 1/4" left, 1/2" right, 1/2" top, 1/8"
bottom.

I think that the normal TV borders are a restriction
of the TV, where's the G400 borders are a restriction
of both the TV and the video card. Up close, the G400
border matches the color of the TV border, or so it
seems.

I was wondering, could you tell me the best you've
managed to get with your card (should be similar
across most nVidia cards, assuming they use the same
TV Out chip)? Muchly appreciated.

Anybody else with scan converters or other setups that
they have working properly are more than invitied to
chip in.

Thanks,
Joe

--- Mark <fairlane@voyager.net> wrote:
> I put a disclaimer in the first sentence. "If your
> time is worth
> something to you.... "
> If you are unemployed, your time is worth something
> less than it was, no?
>
> Joe V wrote:
>
> >Mark,
> >
> >Like I said, at the moment, I'm currently
> unemployed,
> >and have been so for the last two months. Spending
> an
> >extra $45 to get a MythTV box working is not an
> option
> >for me right now, considering that I live in
> >California, and $45 is about 5% of my monthly rent.
> >
> >At the moment, I'm trying to build a MythTV box out
> of
> >parts that I have lying around my apartment. I
> tend
> >to upgrade a fair amount, so I typically have parts
> >lying around.
> >
> >In addition, should I get this working (which I
> think
> >I might be able to), it might save some people $45
> (if
> >they, like me, have an older Radeon card lying
> >around), which they can use to offset the cost of a
> >hardware MPEG encoder or something.
> >
> >I figure there'e no harm in trying. I'll be buying
> a
> >new box to run MythTV on anyway (since I'm finding
> my
> >Athlon 1.4 to be a bit sluggish), but I figure that
> if
> >I can reuse some of the other hardware, then I
> don't
> >have to spend as much money. Worst case scenario,
> I
> >shell out the money for a scan converter (I'd
> rather
> >do that than buy yet another video card, as I have
> two
> >perfectly good video cards here). And heck, it's
> fun,
> >I get a kick out of solving problems.
> >
> >Maybe I lose some time, maybe I don't. It's quite
> >simple to get TV Out working at an older ATI
> Radeon,
> >and most of the time spent is the computer
> compiling
> >stuff. I start the compile, walk away, and check
> on
> >it inbetween innings of the baseball game. I was
> >thinking about it, and it might be as simple as
> >recompiling the X server and Qt, which for me is
> easy.
> >
> >On the other hand, if I was employed right now, I
> >probably wouldn't be messing with any of this.
> >
> >Now then, for the rest of you, if I actually get
> this
> >working, without it being completely convoluted
> (which
> >I think is possible), I'll post instructions to the
> >list, and later on, get them on my website.
> >
> >-- Joe
> >
> >--- Mark <fairlane@voyager.net> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I don't know what your time is worth to you, but
> >>mine is fairly precious.
> >>With that said, go out and buy a Geforce4 MX440SE
> >>card w/TVout.
> >>I got mine from newegg.com, it cost like $45.
> >>Install nvidia driver.
> >>flawless TVout in less than 30 minutes. Mines' an
> >>Albatron. Unless you
> >>are the type
> >>that needs to bang your head on a wall to feel
> like
> >>you did something,
> >>then get an ATI or something.
> >>
> >>Joe V wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>>Myself, I've tried with both a G400 and an
> >>>All-In-Wonder Radeon (the original R100 series),
> >>>
> >>>
> >>and
> >>
> >>
> >>>have had trouble with both. There is a kind soul
> >>>(thanks, Matt) who is assisting me with the G400
> >>>
> >>>
> >>right
> >>
> >>
> >>>now, and there's a possibility that I'll actually
> >>>
> >>>
> >>get
> >>
> >>
> >>>it working. Hopefully. :)
> >>>
> >>>Somebody else on the list once said, "the Radeons
> >>>
> >>>
> >>will
> >>
> >>
> >>>work, but if you spend more time than $30-$45, go
> >>>
> >>>
> >>out
> >>
> >>
> >>>and buy a GeForce card". I'd have to agree with
> >>>
> >>>
> >>this
> >>
> >>
> >>>sentiment, even though at the moment I'm
> unemployed
> >>>(so my time isn't worth much right now). I don't
> >>>
> >>>
> >>have
> >>
> >>
> >>>a GeForce card kicking around here, and I'm not
> >>>
> >>>
> >>going
> >>
> >>
> >>>to buy one, but I do have the G400 and Radeon
> here.
> >>>
> >>>As for the Radeon, you can get TV Out to work -
> >>>
> >>>
> >>it's
> >>
> >>
> >>>quite the complicated procedure, and probably
> won't
> >>>work too well with many Linux distributions. You
> >>>
> >>>
> >>have
> >>
> >>
> >>>to install an older distro that has XFree86 4.2,
> >>>recompile the X Server with the Gatos "devel"
> >>>
> >>>
> >>branch,
> >>
> >>
> >>>and then TV Out will work. Unfortunately for me,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>in
> >>
> >>
> >>>doing that, and building MythTV, well, MythTV
> >>>segfaulted right away, definitely because of the
> >>>rebuilding of the X Server. (If anybody wants
> >>>detailed instructions on how I built it, let me
> >>>
> >>>
> >>know,
> >>
> >>
> >>>and I can post them. After getting TV Out
> booting
> >>>with X though, I don't think I can help).
> >>>
> >>>If you're going to use a Radeon, expect to have
> to
> >>>build everything from source. I know how to do
> it,
> >>>it's just not worth my time.
> >>>
> >>>At this point I'm looking at trying to get the
> G400
>
=== message truncated ===


__________________________________
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Joe - I have probably in general the same video card as Mark (mine's Chaintech, but also a GeForce 4MX440SE, with the nVidia TV out chip). I also have experience trying to get the Matrox G400 to work, and sold that partially because it was just a pain to use and partially because I could not set the overscan properly without distorting the output from the G400 (I got visible diagonal banding across the picture).

You generally want your TV to overscan a bit but it's probably best not to have your card overscan by quite the same amount - that way you'll get the most picture from the TV signal without the distortion that a non-overscanning NTSC TV will give you.

I set my TV to overscan by about 1/2" (I'm about as scientific as you) in the service menu of my 27" set. By default, any graphics card I try with this level of TV overscan gives me borders of about 2 inches on all sides. Obviously, that's a lot for any card to compensate for. If you have a service menu on your TV, you could probably set the TV to overscan *more*, which would allow you to set the graphics card to overscan less and therefore probably wouldn't run into the problem I had with the G400. You can basically adjust your TV set to your graphics card rather than the other way around - provided you have a service menu that you can access (check Google for your model number).

With the Matrox card I was manually able to adjust the overscan of each side of the picture, though this was a time-consuming and laborious process and when I finally did get things to a point where I was happy with the overscan level, I had the aforementioned banding issue.

With the GeForce 4, it's much, much simpler. Everything is basically automatic. Install the driver, which involves typing one command at the bash prompt, then make a few changes to your XF86Config. That's it, and TV out will be working even before booting into X, so you can disconnect your monitor completely. Overscan is set with one simple command in XF86Config. There is a 10 level range to set the overscan, with decimal settings from 0 to 1.0. It does not give you the level of configurability that the framebuffer device using the G400 does (you can't adjust each side individually) but for most people this won't be an issue, and if you have an accessible TV service menu it definitely won't be (since you can adjust the picture centering that way).

I have my overscan set to 0.7 and I can see my entire desktop that way, with the exception of maybe 3-4 pixels on the sides and bottom. The top is actually underscanned by a pixel or two but I can easily fix that in my TV service menu. If I went to the next level of overscan in the card drivers, the entire picture is overscanned but a little too much for my liking. Probably not more than most TV's are by default, though.

I would definitely recommend a GeForce 4 card over the G400, if you can afford one (they're cheap as graphics cards go, but I understand you're looking for work right now). One other thing to consider, though, is the different TV chips in GeForce 4 cards. There are three that I know of, and I'm not sure which is best. I have the nVidia chip in my card, and it's great. Another GeForce 4 I have (in my main PC) has a Philips chip, though, and it's a bit wonky on the TV output until you actually get into X.

Jeff

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joe V [mailto:joevph@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:35 PM
> To: Discussion about mythtv
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Recommended graphics card with tv-out?
>
>
> Mark,
>
> In my quest to find the best TV Out picture, as I'm
> sure you know, I'm exploring different options (I
> know, I'm beating a dead horse here). My goal is to
> have the picture scale on my TV set, as close to as
> well as my TV displays the incoming cable signal (I
> hate borders). If a GeForce4 card will do that, I'd
> be willing to get one (as either a little treat, or
> once I get myself a job, depending on the price).
>
> Anyway, I was wondering how small you can shrink the
> borders to without losing any of the picture (it seems
> that the binary nVidia drivers are half-decent for
> that, so I'm hearing on the list). Here's what I've
> measured with a ruler (yeah, I know, not quite
> scientific):
> Normal TV: 1/4" border left, right, bottom, 1/8" top
> G400 TV Out:: 1 1/4" left, 1/2" right, 1/2" top, 1/8"
> bottom.
>
> I think that the normal TV borders are a restriction
> of the TV, where's the G400 borders are a restriction
> of both the TV and the video card. Up close, the G400
> border matches the color of the TV border, or so it
> seems.
>
> I was wondering, could you tell me the best you've
> managed to get with your card (should be similar
> across most nVidia cards, assuming they use the same
> TV Out chip)? Muchly appreciated.
>
> Anybody else with scan converters or other setups that
> they have working properly are more than invitied to
> chip in.
>
> Thanks,
> Joe
>
> --- Mark <fairlane@voyager.net> wrote:
> > I put a disclaimer in the first sentence. "If your
> > time is worth
> > something to you.... "
> > If you are unemployed, your time is worth something
> > less than it was, no?
> >
> > Joe V wrote:
> >
> > >Mark,
> > >
> > >Like I said, at the moment, I'm currently
> > unemployed,
> > >and have been so for the last two months. Spending
> > an
> > >extra $45 to get a MythTV box working is not an
> > option
> > >for me right now, considering that I live in
> > >California, and $45 is about 5% of my monthly rent.
> > >
> > >At the moment, I'm trying to build a MythTV box out
> > of
> > >parts that I have lying around my apartment. I
> > tend
> > >to upgrade a fair amount, so I typically have parts
> > >lying around.
> > >
> > >In addition, should I get this working (which I
> > think
> > >I might be able to), it might save some people $45
> > (if
> > >they, like me, have an older Radeon card lying
> > >around), which they can use to offset the cost of a
> > >hardware MPEG encoder or something.
> > >
> > >I figure there'e no harm in trying. I'll be buying
> > a
> > >new box to run MythTV on anyway (since I'm finding
> > my
> > >Athlon 1.4 to be a bit sluggish), but I figure that
> > if
> > >I can reuse some of the other hardware, then I
> > don't
> > >have to spend as much money. Worst case scenario,
> > I
> > >shell out the money for a scan converter (I'd
> > rather
> > >do that than buy yet another video card, as I have
> > two
> > >perfectly good video cards here). And heck, it's
> > fun,
> > >I get a kick out of solving problems.
> > >
> > >Maybe I lose some time, maybe I don't. It's quite
> > >simple to get TV Out working at an older ATI
> > Radeon,
> > >and most of the time spent is the computer
> > compiling
> > >stuff. I start the compile, walk away, and check
> > on
> > >it inbetween innings of the baseball game. I was
> > >thinking about it, and it might be as simple as
> > >recompiling the X server and Qt, which for me is
> > easy.
> > >
> > >On the other hand, if I was employed right now, I
> > >probably wouldn't be messing with any of this.
> > >
> > >Now then, for the rest of you, if I actually get
> > this
> > >working, without it being completely convoluted
> > (which
> > >I think is possible), I'll post instructions to the
> > >list, and later on, get them on my website.
> > >
> > >-- Joe
> > >
> > >--- Mark <fairlane@voyager.net> wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >>I don't know what your time is worth to you, but
> > >>mine is fairly precious.
> > >>With that said, go out and buy a Geforce4 MX440SE
> > >>card w/TVout.
> > >>I got mine from newegg.com, it cost like $45.
> > >>Install nvidia driver.
> > >>flawless TVout in less than 30 minutes. Mines' an
> > >>Albatron. Unless you
> > >>are the type
> > >>that needs to bang your head on a wall to feel
> > like
> > >>you did something,
> > >>then get an ATI or something.
> > >>
> > >>Joe V wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>Myself, I've tried with both a G400 and an
> > >>>All-In-Wonder Radeon (the original R100 series),
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>and
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>have had trouble with both. There is a kind soul
> > >>>(thanks, Matt) who is assisting me with the G400
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>right
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>now, and there's a possibility that I'll actually
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>get
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>it working. Hopefully. :)
> > >>>
> > >>>Somebody else on the list once said, "the Radeons
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>will
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>work, but if you spend more time than $30-$45, go
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>out
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>and buy a GeForce card". I'd have to agree with
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>this
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>sentiment, even though at the moment I'm
> > unemployed
> > >>>(so my time isn't worth much right now). I don't
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>have
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>a GeForce card kicking around here, and I'm not
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>going
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>to buy one, but I do have the G400 and Radeon
> > here.
> > >>>
> > >>>As for the Radeon, you can get TV Out to work -
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>it's
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>quite the complicated procedure, and probably
> > won't
> > >>>work too well with many Linux distributions. You
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>have
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>to install an older distro that has XFree86 4.2,
> > >>>recompile the X Server with the Gatos "devel"
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>branch,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>and then TV Out will work. Unfortunately for me,
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>in
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>doing that, and building MythTV, well, MythTV
> > >>>segfaulted right away, definitely because of the
> > >>>rebuilding of the X Server. (If anybody wants
> > >>>detailed instructions on how I built it, let me
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>know,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>>and I can post them. After getting TV Out
> > booting
> > >>>with X though, I don't think I can help).
> > >>>
> > >>>If you're going to use a Radeon, expect to have
> > to
> > >>>build everything from source. I know how to do
> > it,
> > >>>it's just not worth my time.
> > >>>
> > >>>At this point I'm looking at trying to get the
> > G400
> >
> === message truncated ===
>
>
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Jeff,

Thanks for the info.

I checked my TV, looked up the manual, and did a
Google search. There's no "service menu" where I can
set overscan settings. You'd figure for a 32" TV,
that there would be something there. Oh well.
There's no way to adjust the TV picture size, only the
colors.

I'll get something working... But, it sounds like the
GeForce4 might be worth investigating, especially if
it doesn't involve a series of convoluted fbset, and
it's probably a bit cheaper (or at least same price)
as a hardware scan converter.

-- Joe

--- Jeff Williams <JeffW@rockstargames.com> wrote:
> Joe - I have probably in general the same video card
> as Mark (mine's Chaintech, but also a GeForce
> 4MX440SE, with the nVidia TV out chip). I also have
> experience trying to get the Matrox G400 to work,
> and sold that partially because it was just a pain
> to use and partially because I could not set the
> overscan properly without distorting the output from
> the G400 (I got visible diagonal banding across the
> picture).
>
> You generally want your TV to overscan a bit but
> it's probably best not to have your card overscan by
> quite the same amount - that way you'll get the most
> picture from the TV signal without the distortion
> that a non-overscanning NTSC TV will give you.
>
> I set my TV to overscan by about 1/2" (I'm about as
> scientific as you) in the service menu of my 27"
> set. By default, any graphics card I try with this
> level of TV overscan gives me borders of about 2
> inches on all sides. Obviously, that's a lot for
> any card to compensate for. If you have a service
> menu on your TV, you could probably set the TV to
> overscan *more*, which would allow you to set the
> graphics card to overscan less and therefore
> probably wouldn't run into the problem I had with
> the G400. You can basically adjust your TV set to
> your graphics card rather than the other way around
> - provided you have a service menu that you can
> access (check Google for your model number).
>
> With the Matrox card I was manually able to adjust
> the overscan of each side of the picture, though
> this was a time-consuming and laborious process and
> when I finally did get things to a point where I was
> happy with the overscan level, I had the
> aforementioned banding issue.
>
> With the GeForce 4, it's much, much simpler.
> Everything is basically automatic. Install the
> driver, which involves typing one command at the
> bash prompt, then make a few changes to your
> XF86Config. That's it, and TV out will be working
> even before booting into X, so you can disconnect
> your monitor completely. Overscan is set with one
> simple command in XF86Config. There is a 10 level
> range to set the overscan, with decimal settings
> from 0 to 1.0. It does not give you the level of
> configurability that the framebuffer device using
> the G400 does (you can't adjust each side
> individually) but for most people this won't be an
> issue, and if you have an accessible TV service menu
> it definitely won't be (since you can adjust the
> picture centering that way).
>
> I have my overscan set to 0.7 and I can see my
> entire desktop that way, with the exception of maybe
> 3-4 pixels on the sides and bottom. The top is
> actually underscanned by a pixel or two but I can
> easily fix that in my TV service menu. If I went to
> the next level of overscan in the card drivers, the
> entire picture is overscanned but a little too much
> for my liking. Probably not more than most TV's are
> by default, though.
>
> I would definitely recommend a GeForce 4 card over
> the G400, if you can afford one (they're cheap as
> graphics cards go, but I understand you're looking
> for work right now). One other thing to consider,
> though, is the different TV chips in GeForce 4
> cards. There are three that I know of, and I'm not
> sure which is best. I have the nVidia chip in my
> card, and it's great. Another GeForce 4 I have (in
> my main PC) has a Philips chip, though, and it's a
> bit wonky on the TV output until you actually get
> into X.
>
> Jeff
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Joe V [mailto:joevph@yahoo.com]
> > Sent: Tuesday, August 05, 2003 2:35 PM
> > To: Discussion about mythtv
> > Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Recommended graphics
> card with tv-out?
> >
> >
> > Mark,
> >
> > In my quest to find the best TV Out picture, as
> I'm
> > sure you know, I'm exploring different options (I
> > know, I'm beating a dead horse here). My goal is
> to
> > have the picture scale on my TV set, as close to
> as
> > well as my TV displays the incoming cable signal
> (I
> > hate borders). If a GeForce4 card will do that,
> I'd
> > be willing to get one (as either a little treat,
> or
> > once I get myself a job, depending on the price).
> >
> > Anyway, I was wondering how small you can shrink
> the
> > borders to without losing any of the picture (it
> seems
> > that the binary nVidia drivers are half-decent for
> > that, so I'm hearing on the list). Here's what
> I've
> > measured with a ruler (yeah, I know, not quite
> > scientific):
> > Normal TV: 1/4" border left, right, bottom, 1/8"
> top
> > G400 TV Out:: 1 1/4" left, 1/2" right, 1/2" top,
> 1/8"
> > bottom.
> >
> > I think that the normal TV borders are a
> restriction
> > of the TV, where's the G400 borders are a
> restriction
> > of both the TV and the video card. Up close, the
> G400
> > border matches the color of the TV border, or so
> it
> > seems.
> >
> > I was wondering, could you tell me the best you've
> > managed to get with your card (should be similar
> > across most nVidia cards, assuming they use the
> same
> > TV Out chip)? Muchly appreciated.
> >
> > Anybody else with scan converters or other setups
> that
> > they have working properly are more than invitied
> to
> > chip in.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Joe
> >
> > --- Mark <fairlane@voyager.net> wrote:
> > > I put a disclaimer in the first sentence. "If
> your
> > > time is worth
> > > something to you.... "
> > > If you are unemployed, your time is worth
> something
> > > less than it was, no?
> > >
> > > Joe V wrote:
> > >
> > > >Mark,
> > > >
> > > >Like I said, at the moment, I'm currently
> > > unemployed,
> > > >and have been so for the last two months.
> Spending
> > > an
> > > >extra $45 to get a MythTV box working is not an
> > > option
> > > >for me right now, considering that I live in
> > > >California, and $45 is about 5% of my monthly
> rent.
> > > >
> > > >At the moment, I'm trying to build a MythTV box
> out
> > > of
> > > >parts that I have lying around my apartment. I
> > > tend
> > > >to upgrade a fair amount, so I typically have
> parts
> > > >lying around.
> > > >
> > > >In addition, should I get this working (which I
> > > think
> > > >I might be able to), it might save some people
> $45
> > > (if
> > > >they, like me, have an older Radeon card lying
> > > >around), which they can use to offset the cost
> of a
> > > >hardware MPEG encoder or something.
> > > >
> > > >I figure there'e no harm in trying. I'll be
> buying
> > > a
> > > >new box to run MythTV on anyway (since I'm
> finding
> > > my
> > > >Athlon 1.4 to be a bit sluggish), but I figure
> that
> > > if
> > > >I can reuse some of the other hardware, then I
> > > don't
> > > >have to spend as much money. Worst case
> scenario,
> > > I
>
=== message truncated ===


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> Jeff,
>
> Thanks for the info.
>
> I checked my TV, looked up the manual, and did a
> Google search. There's no "service menu" where I can
> set overscan settings. You'd figure for a 32" TV,
> that there would be something there. Oh well.
> There's no way to adjust the TV picture size, only the
> colors.
>
> I'll get something working... But, it sounds like the
> GeForce4 might be worth investigating, especially if
> it doesn't involve a series of convoluted fbset, and
> it's probably a bit cheaper (or at least same price)
> as a hardware scan converter.

Have you tried nvtv?
I just got it working quite well for my gf3 ti for overscan.
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The overscan function on the Nvidia driver works great. No borders on mine.

Joe V wrote:

>Mark,
>
>In my quest to find the best TV Out picture, as I'm
>sure you know, I'm exploring different options (I
>know, I'm beating a dead horse here). My goal is to
>have the picture scale on my TV set, as close to as
>well as my TV displays the incoming cable signal (I
>hate borders). If a GeForce4 card will do that, I'd
>be willing to get one (as either a little treat, or
>once I get myself a job, depending on the price).
>
>Anyway, I was wondering how small you can shrink the
>borders to without losing any of the picture (it seems
>that the binary nVidia drivers are half-decent for
>that, so I'm hearing on the list). Here's what I've
>measured with a ruler (yeah, I know, not quite
>scientific):
>Normal TV: 1/4" border left, right, bottom, 1/8" top
>G400 TV Out:: 1 1/4" left, 1/2" right, 1/2" top, 1/8"
>bottom.
>
>I think that the normal TV borders are a restriction
>of the TV, where's the G400 borders are a restriction
>of both the TV and the video card. Up close, the G400
>border matches the color of the TV border, or so it
>seems.
>
>I was wondering, could you tell me the best you've
>managed to get with your card (should be similar
>across most nVidia cards, assuming they use the same
>TV Out chip)? Muchly appreciated.
>
>Anybody else with scan converters or other setups that
>they have working properly are more than invitied to
>chip in.
>
>Thanks,
>Joe
>
>--- Mark <fairlane@voyager.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I put a disclaimer in the first sentence. "If your
>>time is worth
>>something to you.... "
>>If you are unemployed, your time is worth something
>>less than it was, no?
>>
>>Joe V wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>>Mark,
>>>
>>>Like I said, at the moment, I'm currently
>>>
>>>
>>unemployed,
>>
>>
>>>and have been so for the last two months. Spending
>>>
>>>
>>an
>>
>>
>>>extra $45 to get a MythTV box working is not an
>>>
>>>
>>option
>>
>>
>>>for me right now, considering that I live in
>>>California, and $45 is about 5% of my monthly rent.
>>>
>>>At the moment, I'm trying to build a MythTV box out
>>>
>>>
>>of
>>
>>
>>>parts that I have lying around my apartment. I
>>>
>>>
>>tend
>>
>>
>>>to upgrade a fair amount, so I typically have parts
>>>lying around.
>>>
>>>In addition, should I get this working (which I
>>>
>>>
>>think
>>
>>
>>>I might be able to), it might save some people $45
>>>
>>>
>>(if
>>
>>
>>>they, like me, have an older Radeon card lying
>>>around), which they can use to offset the cost of a
>>>hardware MPEG encoder or something.
>>>
>>>I figure there'e no harm in trying. I'll be buying
>>>
>>>
>>a
>>
>>
>>>new box to run MythTV on anyway (since I'm finding
>>>
>>>
>>my
>>
>>
>>>Athlon 1.4 to be a bit sluggish), but I figure that
>>>
>>>
>>if
>>
>>
>>>I can reuse some of the other hardware, then I
>>>
>>>
>>don't
>>
>>
>>>have to spend as much money. Worst case scenario,
>>>
>>>
>>I
>>
>>
>>>shell out the money for a scan converter (I'd
>>>
>>>
>>rather
>>
>>
>>>do that than buy yet another video card, as I have
>>>
>>>
>>two
>>
>>
>>>perfectly good video cards here). And heck, it's
>>>
>>>
>>fun,
>>
>>
>>>I get a kick out of solving problems.
>>>
>>>Maybe I lose some time, maybe I don't. It's quite
>>>simple to get TV Out working at an older ATI
>>>
>>>
>>Radeon,
>>
>>
>>>and most of the time spent is the computer
>>>
>>>
>>compiling
>>
>>
>>>stuff. I start the compile, walk away, and check
>>>
>>>
>>on
>>
>>
>>>it inbetween innings of the baseball game. I was
>>>thinking about it, and it might be as simple as
>>>recompiling the X server and Qt, which for me is
>>>
>>>
>>easy.
>>
>>
>>>On the other hand, if I was employed right now, I
>>>probably wouldn't be messing with any of this.
>>>
>>>Now then, for the rest of you, if I actually get
>>>
>>>
>>this
>>
>>
>>>working, without it being completely convoluted
>>>
>>>
>>(which
>>
>>
>>>I think is possible), I'll post instructions to the
>>>list, and later on, get them on my website.
>>>
>>>-- Joe
>>>
>>>--- Mark <fairlane@voyager.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>I don't know what your time is worth to you, but
>>>>mine is fairly precious.
>>>>With that said, go out and buy a Geforce4 MX440SE
>>>>card w/TVout.
>>>>I got mine from newegg.com, it cost like $45.
>>>>Install nvidia driver.
>>>>flawless TVout in less than 30 minutes. Mines' an
>>>>Albatron. Unless you
>>>>are the type
>>>>that needs to bang your head on a wall to feel
>>>>
>>>>
>>like
>>
>>
>>>>you did something,
>>>>then get an ATI or something.
>>>>
>>>>Joe V wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Myself, I've tried with both a G400 and an
>>>>>All-In-Wonder Radeon (the original R100 series),
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>and
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>have had trouble with both. There is a kind soul
>>>>>(thanks, Matt) who is assisting me with the G400
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>right
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>now, and there's a possibility that I'll actually
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>get
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>it working. Hopefully. :)
>>>>>
>>>>>Somebody else on the list once said, "the Radeons
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>will
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>work, but if you spend more time than $30-$45, go
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>out
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>and buy a GeForce card". I'd have to agree with
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>this
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>sentiment, even though at the moment I'm
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>unemployed
>>
>>
>>>>>(so my time isn't worth much right now). I don't
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>have
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>a GeForce card kicking around here, and I'm not
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>going
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>to buy one, but I do have the G400 and Radeon
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>here.
>>
>>
>>>>>As for the Radeon, you can get TV Out to work -
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>it's
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>quite the complicated procedure, and probably
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>won't
>>
>>
>>>>>work too well with many Linux distributions. You
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>have
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>to install an older distro that has XFree86 4.2,
>>>>>recompile the X Server with the Gatos "devel"
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>branch,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>and then TV Out will work. Unfortunately for me,
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>in
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>doing that, and building MythTV, well, MythTV
>>>>>segfaulted right away, definitely because of the
>>>>>rebuilding of the X Server. (If anybody wants
>>>>>detailed instructions on how I built it, let me
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>know,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>and I can post them. After getting TV Out
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>booting
>>
>>
>>>>>with X though, I don't think I can help).
>>>>>
>>>>>If you're going to use a Radeon, expect to have
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>to
>>
>>
>>>>>build everything from source. I know how to do
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>it,
>>
>>
>>>>>it's just not worth my time.
>>>>>
>>>>>At this point I'm looking at trying to get the
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>G400
>>
>>
>>
>=== message truncated ===
>
>
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Well the best TV-OUT I ever found was from a Matrox Marvel G400TV card.
Of course I was taking advantage of the hardwarte Back End Scaler
functionality. I have tried ATI and it isn't even close. However ATI
with its component hdtv adapter is another story. It has produced the
best picture I have ever seen on my 51" Sony Widescreen. I have only
tried using the adapter with my ATI 8500DV AIW card under Windoze. I
think it may be just a matter of setting proper timings and resolutions
to get it working under Linux.

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