Mailing List Archive: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro

Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro

May 31, 2003, 10:24 AM

Post #1 of 12 (2490 views)

All,

Thanks for the tips - Wasnt able to respond directly because my mail
server was freaking out. I've switched over to my @Home account, will
probably switch to the comcast account shortly.

Just a quick update - I have the binaries and dependencies built and
ready for my initial testing, as soon as my Pundit arrives. I am using
one of my previous projects as a starting point; it was an in-car MP3
jukebox using the IRPM3 project, running on a hacked I-Opener running a
tweaked version of Ingo Paschke's M4I distribution. His distribution
fits X, Opera, BlackBox, BusyBox, XMMS, Opera, Flash, Samba, and several
other tools within 16 MB of flash memory (!!!). I've stripped most of
the stuff that I didn't need (namely X and Opera) out of my MP3 Jukebox;
am starting over for this project, and am shooting for a full frontend
distribution on a 32 Meg CF card (but I may have to expand that to 64 if
it won't fit).

Why use this instead of a cd-based distribution like Knoppix? Mainly
because I have most of the tools together and have spent a good deal of
time working with this distribution. I also want a completely diskless
system for my frontend, and I think its just plain cool to fit a full,
working Linux distribution within 32 megs.

I have a laundry list of items that I want to finish before sending it
out to others to test:

1) Bootup: The distribution boots from a cramfs partition on flash, and
the boot process is pretty slow - ~45 seconds on my I-Opener (Rise
PR266@133 mhz, 32 megs ram). The I-Opener is notoriously slow; I expect
to see sub-30 second boot times on the Pundit. I want to get APM
suspend/resume fully working to avoid the bootup delay. I am also
hoping that I can set an APM wakeup event from my serial IR remote via
the BIOS - making the whole thing more tivo-like. Can't test either
until I get my hardware!

2) Integrate the Linux Progress Patch for a nice, clean display during
bootup. (If anyone has already created a Myth/LPP boot screen, I would
REALLY appreciate it if you would send it to me - I have very little
artistic talent <g>)

3) Develop a packaging system (ala the LRP / Leaf system) for supporting
extra modules. Haven't really thought this one fully out, but it would
be really nice to be able to extend the distribution without having to
resort to re-building or manually transferring files. I could see
Skins, myth packages, drivers, and other optional components fitting in
nicely here.

4) Test and fix dependency issues, remove unused binaries & libs, and
update all components to latest available STABLE versions.

Tips? Suggestions? Input? Let me know what you think!

== Steve

Re: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro [ In reply to ]

matt at mattmarsh

May 31, 2003, 10:48 AM

Post #2 of 12 (2422 views)

Permalink

Hi,

Sounds like you're doing a great job with this! I'm just about to
order a Pundit and other bits so it's very interesting to me...
Some comments below...

> 1) Bootup: The distribution boots from a cramfs partition on flash, and
> the boot process is pretty slow - ~45 seconds on my I-Opener (Rise
> PR266@133 mhz, 32 megs ram). The I-Opener is notoriously slow; I expect
> to see sub-30 second boot times on the Pundit. I want to get APM
> suspend/resume fully working to avoid the bootup delay. I am also
> hoping that I can set an APM wakeup event from my serial IR remote via
> the BIOS - making the whole thing more tivo-like. Can't test either
> until I get my hardware!

I've been wondering about the whole wake-up from remote myself too. Do
you think it will be possible from using an IR remote in the serial support
as you suggest? I noticed from the Pundit manual that it does have an
option to wake when and external modem signals one of the serial lines,
so if you could get the IR remote to do that I suppose it would be possible?

Right now, I had been thinking I'd have to go without the wake up and
was considering getting the ATI Remote Wonder. I'd have to turn the
machine on manually but then at least the remote could turn it off. It
also would have the advantage of being RF instead of IR so I could hide
the dongle away behind everything.

The only other way I could think of getting remote wakeup to work was
to use some X10 kit, but that would require at least 3 pieces of kit:
1. an X10 remote to send an X10 reciever (these can also plug into the
machine so that once it boots it will pick up and give events to
the machine).
2. An X10 reciever which would pick up the event from the remote and
send out another X10 event to an X10 computer controller.
3. An X10 computer controller which would signal the serial line to
make the machine wakeup.
That's all getting a bit expensive and clumsy though...

> 2) Integrate the Linux Progress Patch for a nice, clean display during
> bootup. (If anyone has already created a Myth/LPP boot screen, I would
> REALLY appreciate it if you would send it to me - I have very little
> artistic talent <g>)

I too was looking at that project the other day... it looks like it might
have been stalled for a while though and might not work with the latest
kernels? Anyone got any experience of this?

> 3) Develop a packaging system (ala the LRP / Leaf system) for supporting
> extra modules. Haven't really thought this one fully out, but it would
> be really nice to be able to extend the distribution without having to
> resort to re-building or manually transferring files. I could see
> Skins, myth packages, drivers, and other optional components fitting in
> nicely here.

Sounds like a great idea!

> Tips? Suggestions? Input? Let me know what you think!

Sounds very interesting to me... I'd definately be interested in giving
something like this a try when I get my kit!

Matt

--
Matt N. Marsh
Email: matt@mattmarsh.net
Web: http://www.mattmarsh.net/

Re: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro [ In reply to ]

frank at openminds

May 31, 2003, 10:50 AM

Post #3 of 12 (2394 views)

Permalink

On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 10:24:20AM -0700, Steve Davidson wrote:
> All,

> distribution on a 32 Meg CF card (but I may have to expand that to 64 if
> it won't fit).

according to my research, there's no CF reader in the pundit. So beware
you'd need a PCMCIA 2 CF converter, and need to check if the bios can
boot of a PCMCIA device.

> 1) Bootup: The distribution boots from a cramfs partition on flash, and
> the boot process is pretty slow - ~45 seconds on my I-Opener (Rise
> PR266@133 mhz, 32 megs ram). The I-Opener is notoriously slow; I expect
> to see sub-30 second boot times on the Pundit. I want to get APM
> suspend/resume fully working to avoid the bootup delay. I am also
> hoping that I can set an APM wakeup event from my serial IR remote via
> the BIOS - making the whole thing more tivo-like. Can't test either
> until I get my hardware!

Suspend/Resume from ram will take about 5 to 10 seconds I guess...

> 2) Integrate the Linux Progress Patch for a nice, clean display during
> bootup. (If anyone has already created a Myth/LPP boot screen, I would
> REALLY appreciate it if you would send it to me - I have very little
> artistic talent <g>)

If you use the BIOS suspend/Resume, you won't be able to change that
screen, but indeed, a nice mythtv bootupscreen would be nice...

> 3) Develop a packaging system (ala the LRP / Leaf system) for supporting
> extra modules. Haven't really thought this one fully out, but it would
> be really nice to be able to extend the distribution without having to
> resort to re-building or manually transferring files. I could see
> Skins, myth packages, drivers, and other optional components fitting in
> nicely here.

debian? :)

Frank

Re: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro [ In reply to ]

frank at openminds

May 31, 2003, 10:57 AM

Post #4 of 12 (2415 views)

Permalink

On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 06:48:57PM +0100, Matt Marsh wrote:
>
> I've been wondering about the whole wake-up from remote myself too. Do
> you think it will be possible from using an IR remote in the serial support
> as you suggest? I noticed from the Pundit manual that it does have an
> option to wake when and external modem signals one of the serial lines,
> so if you could get the IR remote to do that I suppose it would be possible?

Yes! If the pundit is able to wake up when on modem signal, it's
possible to wake it up with a serial IR as well. (Worst case, you have
to buy a tiny DB9 connector and solder 2 lines together with your IR
remote)

> The only other way I could think of getting remote wakeup to work was
> to use some X10 kit, but that would require at least 3 pieces of kit:
> 1. an X10 remote to send an X10 reciever (these can also plug into the
> machine so that once it boots it will pick up and give events to
> the machine).
> 2. An X10 reciever which would pick up the event from the remote and
> send out another X10 event to an X10 computer controller.
> 3. An X10 computer controller which would signal the serial line to
> make the machine wakeup.
> That's all getting a bit expensive and clumsy though...

You can't realy use that in combination with suspend to ram. AFAIK, the
X10 cuts power, meaning the RAM would lose power and thus lose its
contents...

Frank

Re: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro [ In reply to ]

matt at mattmarsh

May 31, 2003, 11:18 AM

Post #5 of 12 (2411 views)

Permalink

> > I've been wondering about the whole wake-up from remote myself too. Do
> > you think it will be possible from using an IR remote in the serial support
> > as you suggest? I noticed from the Pundit manual that it does have an
> > option to wake when and external modem signals one of the serial lines,
> > so if you could get the IR remote to do that I suppose it would be possible?
>
> Yes! If the pundit is able to wake up when on modem signal, it's
> possible to wake it up with a serial IR as well. (Worst case, you have
> to buy a tiny DB9 connector and solder 2 lines together with your IR
> remote)

Then that sounds like a possibility. The manual on the ASUS site does
say that it can wake on the external modem signal which I take to mean
serial modem...

> > The only other way I could think of getting remote wakeup to work was
> > to use some X10 kit, but that would require at least 3 pieces of kit:
> > 1. an X10 remote to send an X10 reciever (these can also plug into the
> > machine so that once it boots it will pick up and give events to
> > the machine).
> > 2. An X10 reciever which would pick up the event from the remote and
> > send out another X10 event to an X10 computer controller.
> > 3. An X10 computer controller which would signal the serial line to
> > make the machine wakeup.
> > That's all getting a bit expensive and clumsy though...
>
> You can't realy use that in combination with suspend to ram. AFAIK, the
> X10 cuts power, meaning the RAM would lose power and thus lose its
> contents...

Ah, that's certainly one way of using X10, but you can buy an X10 computer
controller which plugs into the serial port and will do the wake up thing
as though it is a modem just like in the above IR way. But anyway, there
is no need for all this X10 nonsense if the IR remote works fine... the
only pity is that for the IR one I'm gonna have to have a visible dongle :-(

Matt

--
Matt N. Marsh
Email: matt@mattmarsh.net
Web: http://www.mattmarsh.net/

Re: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro [ In reply to ]

buzzdat1 at attbi

May 31, 2003, 11:40 AM

Post #6 of 12 (2431 views)

Permalink

On Sat, 2003-05-31 at 10:48, Matt Marsh wrote:
{ snip }

> I've been wondering about the whole wake-up from remote myself too. Do
> you think it will be possible from using an IR remote in the serial support
> as you suggest? I noticed from the Pundit manual that it does have an
> option to wake when and external modem signals one of the serial lines,
> so if you could get the IR remote to do that I suppose it would be possible?

I have been told that it *should* be possible. I'll have to do some
testing.

>
> Right now, I had been thinking I'd have to go without the wake up and
> was considering getting the ATI Remote Wonder. I'd have to turn the
> machine on manually but then at least the remote could turn it off. It
> also would have the advantage of being RF instead of IR so I could hide
> the dongle away behind everything.
>
> The only other way I could think of getting remote wakeup to work was
> to use some X10 kit, but that would require at least 3 pieces of kit:
> 1. an X10 remote to send an X10 reciever (these can also plug into the
> machine so that once it boots it will pick up and give events to
> the machine).
> 2. An X10 reciever which would pick up the event from the remote and
> send out another X10 event to an X10 computer controller.
> 3. An X10 computer controller which would signal the serial line to
> make the machine wakeup.
> That's all getting a bit expensive and clumsy though...

It's probably simpler than this - I was thinking of a basic circuit with
a Basic Stamp I, an IR receiver, and a relay to trip the physical power
switch - this should work too. I've seen *some* examples on various BS
sites, and have some friends with significant microcontroller
experience. I *will* get something to work here... <g>

>
> > 2) Integrate the Linux Progress Patch for a nice, clean display during
> > bootup. (If anyone has already created a Myth/LPP boot screen, I would
> > REALLY appreciate it if you would send it to me - I have very little
> > artistic talent <g>)
>
> I too was looking at that project the other day... it looks like it might
> have been stalled for a while though and might not work with the latest
> kernels? Anyone got any experience of this?
>

This seems like an on-again, off-again project - AFAIK, Mandrake
included it with one of the later releases, then removed it for the most
recent releases. I think that SUSE is shipping with it as well (?)

Any input on this? Anyone?

== Steve

Re: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro [ In reply to ]

buzzdat1 at attbi

May 31, 2003, 11:43 AM

Post #7 of 12 (2399 views)

Permalink

On Sat, 2003-05-31 at 10:50, Frank Louwers wrote:
> On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 10:24:20AM -0700, Steve Davidson wrote:
> > All,
>
> > distribution on a 32 Meg CF card (but I may have to expand that to 64 if
> > it won't fit).
>
> according to my research, there's no CF reader in the pundit. So beware
> you'd need a PCMCIA 2 CF converter, and need to check if the bios can
> boot of a PCMCIA device.

I've used CF-> IDE adapters for my other projects (mostly LRP router
boxen) with a great deal of success. CF cards have an embedded IDE
controller, so it's a simple adapter; they can be found for around $20.

>
> > 1) Bootup: The distribution boots from a cramfs partition on flash, and
> > the boot process is pretty slow - ~45 seconds on my I-Opener (Rise
> > PR266@133 mhz, 32 megs ram). The I-Opener is notoriously slow; I expect
> > to see sub-30 second boot times on the Pundit. I want to get APM
> > suspend/resume fully working to avoid the bootup delay. I am also
> > hoping that I can set an APM wakeup event from my serial IR remote via
> > the BIOS - making the whole thing more tivo-like. Can't test either
> > until I get my hardware!
>
> Suspend/Resume from ram will take about 5 to 10 seconds I guess...

Depends on the system. My Zaurus resumes in under one second, my
I-Opener takes about three seconds. Hopefully someone has already
solved the APM problems with the Pundit's chipset - will have to do some
research.

>
> > 2) Integrate the Linux Progress Patch for a nice, clean display during
> > bootup. (If anyone has already created a Myth/LPP boot screen, I would
> > REALLY appreciate it if you would send it to me - I have very little
> > artistic talent <g>)
>
> If you use the BIOS suspend/Resume, you won't be able to change that
> screen, but indeed, a nice mythtv bootupscreen would be nice...
>
> > 3) Develop a packaging system (ala the LRP / Leaf system) for supporting
> > extra modules. Haven't really thought this one fully out, but it would
> > be really nice to be able to extend the distribution without having to
> > resort to re-building or manually transferring files. I could see
> > Skins, myth packages, drivers, and other optional components fitting in
> > nicely here.
>
> debian? :)

The .deb format may work very well; whatever the format is, it will need
to play well with my distribution (cramfs can be a picky beast)

>
>
> Frank
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@snowman.net
> http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Re: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro [ In reply to ]

buzzdat1 at attbi

May 31, 2003, 11:46 AM

Post #8 of 12 (2425 views)

Permalink

On Sat, 2003-05-31 at 11:18, Matt Marsh wrote:
> > > I've been wondering about the whole wake-up from remote myself too. Do
> > > you think it will be possible from using an IR remote in the serial support
> > > as you suggest? I noticed from the Pundit manual that it does have an
> > > option to wake when and external modem signals one of the serial lines,
> > > so if you could get the IR remote to do that I suppose it would be possible?
> >
> > Yes! If the pundit is able to wake up when on modem signal, it's
> > possible to wake it up with a serial IR as well. (Worst case, you have
> > to buy a tiny DB9 connector and solder 2 lines together with your IR
> > remote)
>
> Then that sounds like a possibility. The manual on the ASUS site does
> say that it can wake on the external modem signal which I take to mean
> serial modem...

This is what I was thinking of. *should* be do-able.

BTW, is the download on the Asus site working now? All of the versions
that I've gotten have been corrupt. Could someone send me the PDF?
(buzzdat1@attbi.com)

>
> > > The only other way I could think of getting remote wakeup to work was
> > > to use some X10 kit, but that would require at least 3 pieces of kit:
> > > 1. an X10 remote to send an X10 reciever (these can also plug into the
> > > machine so that once it boots it will pick up and give events to
> > > the machine).
> > > 2. An X10 reciever which would pick up the event from the remote and
> > > send out another X10 event to an X10 computer controller.
> > > 3. An X10 computer controller which would signal the serial line to
> > > make the machine wakeup.
> > > That's all getting a bit expensive and clumsy though...
> >
> > You can't realy use that in combination with suspend to ram. AFAIK, the
> > X10 cuts power, meaning the RAM would lose power and thus lose its
> > contents...
>
> Ah, that's certainly one way of using X10, but you can buy an X10 computer
> controller which plugs into the serial port and will do the wake up thing
> as though it is a modem just like in the above IR way. But anyway, there
> is no need for all this X10 nonsense if the IR remote works fine... the
> only pity is that for the IR one I'm gonna have to have a visible dongle :-(
>
> Matt

Feels like overkill to me... <g>

== Steve

Re: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro [ In reply to ]

frank at openminds

May 31, 2003, 11:54 AM

Post #9 of 12 (2437 views)

Permalink

On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 11:43:45AM -0700, Steve Davidson wrote:
> On Sat, 2003-05-31 at 10:50, Frank Louwers wrote:
> > On Sat, May 31, 2003 at 10:24:20AM -0700, Steve Davidson wrote:
> > > All,
> >
> > > distribution on a 32 Meg CF card (but I may have to expand that to 64 if
> > > it won't fit).
> >
> > according to my research, there's no CF reader in the pundit. So beware
> > you'd need a PCMCIA 2 CF converter, and need to check if the bios can
> > boot of a PCMCIA device.
>
> I've used CF-> IDE adapters for my other projects (mostly LRP router
> boxen) with a great deal of success. CF cards have an embedded IDE
> controller, so it's a simple adapter; they can be found for around $20.

yes, but the Pundit has only 1 ide channel, so you if you go for that
solution, you can't attach a harddisk ... hmm, wait, that was your
intention :)

Frank

Re: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro [ In reply to ]

matt at mattmarsh

May 31, 2003, 12:05 PM

Post #10 of 12 (2419 views)

Permalink

>
> BTW, is the download on the Asus site working now? All of the versions
> that I've gotten have been corrupt. Could someone send me the PDF?
> (buzzdat1@attbi.com)

Works fine for me, I'll email you a copy.

Matt

--
Matt N. Marsh
Email: matt@mattmarsh.net
Web: http://www.mattmarsh.net/

RE: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro [ In reply to ]

danman at dtconnect

May 31, 2003, 12:08 PM

Post #11 of 12 (2446 views)

Permalink

Uh, oh... I just sent one too...

Hope you're not on Dialup.. ; )

............................................
Dan Mount

-----Original Message-----
From: Matt Marsh [mailto:matt@mattmarsh.net]
Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2003 3:05 PM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro

>
> BTW, is the download on the Asus site working now? All of the
versions
> that I've gotten have been corrupt. Could someone send me the PDF?
> (buzzdat1@attbi.com)

Works fine for me, I'll email you a copy.

Matt

--
Matt N. Marsh
Email: matt@mattmarsh.net
Web: http://www.mattmarsh.net/
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@snowman.net
http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Re: Update: Pundit/MythFE Distro [ In reply to ]

m0j0 at foofus

May 31, 2003, 3:49 PM

Post #12 of 12 (2426 views)

Permalink

> > > 2) Integrate the Linux Progress Patch for a nice, clean display during
> > > bootup. (If anyone has already created a Myth/LPP boot screen, I would
> > > REALLY appreciate it if you would send it to me - I have very little
> > > artistic talent <g>)
> >
> > I too was looking at that project the other day... it looks like it might
> > have been stalled for a while though and might not work with the latest
> > kernels? Anyone got any experience of this?
> >
>
> This seems like an on-again, off-again project - AFAIK, Mandrake
> included it with one of the later releases, then removed it for the most
> recent releases. I think that SUSE is shipping with it as well (?)

LPP works fine for me using 2.4.21-rc4. I grabbed the version from
http://lpp-themes.sourceforge.net/. I also threw together (many months
ago) a quick image (see http://www.foofus.net/m0j0/). Nothing fancy, but
feel free to give it a shot.

Joe