Mailing List Archive

I like that idea...


-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net] On Behalf Of Nathan Smith
Sent: woensdag 7 mei 2003 16:06
To: 'mythtv-users@snowman.net'
Subject: [mythtv-users] Day Dream MythTV P2P Network



Wouldn't it be cool (and illegal) if all MythTV machines could
participate in a P2P network? If you missed recording a show your
MythMAchine could snatch it from across the network.
Of course you could probably patch it together now with Gnutella or
something, but it would be cool if it was a MythTV-Exclusive network?

-Nate
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@snowman.net
http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Or even better to make a network where all the mythtv check the listings
he got wit hother users... And download them from eatchother and not
everybody from one server...

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net] On Behalf Of Nathan Smith
Sent: woensdag 7 mei 2003 16:06
To: 'mythtv-users@snowman.net'
Subject: [mythtv-users] Day Dream MythTV P2P Network



Wouldn't it be cool (and illegal) if all MythTV machines could
participate in a P2P network? If you missed recording a show your
MythMAchine could snatch it from across the network.
Of course you could probably patch it together now with Gnutella or
something, but it would be cool if it was a MythTV-Exclusive network?

-Nate
_______________________________________________
mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@snowman.net
http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

I've been thinking of a similar idea. It could also have elements of
Shoutcast, and people could arrange their own videos, effectively
creating their own TV show or channel. Distributing broadcasts might be
a violation of copyright law (hasn't stopped many people) but there's
legitimate use to get MythTVers networking. It doesn't necessarily need
to be a PART of MythTV though. I've been thinking why people don't set
up mirrors for TV listings...

Watteel Pascal wrote:

>Or even better to make a network where all the mythtv check the listings
>he got wit hother users... And download them from eatchother and not
>everybody from one server...
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net
>[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net] On Behalf Of Nathan Smith
>Sent: woensdag 7 mei 2003 16:06
>To: 'mythtv-users@snowman.net'
>Subject: [mythtv-users] Day Dream MythTV P2P Network
>
>
>
>Wouldn't it be cool (and illegal) if all MythTV machines could
>participate in a P2P network? If you missed recording a show your
>MythMAchine could snatch it from across the network.
>Of course you could probably patch it together now with Gnutella or
>something, but it would be cool if it was a MythTV-Exclusive network?
>
>-Nate
>___
>

Count me out until I get fiber running to me door ;)

Joe Schmidt said:
> I've been thinking of a similar idea. It could also have elements of
> Shoutcast, and people could arrange their own videos, effectively
> creating their own TV show or channel. Distributing broadcasts might be
> a violation of copyright law (hasn't stopped many people) but there's
> legitimate use to get MythTVers networking. It doesn't necessarily need
> to be a PART of MythTV though. I've been thinking why people don't set
> up mirrors for TV listings...
>
> Watteel Pascal wrote:
>
>>Or even better to make a network where all the mythtv check the
>> listings he got wit hother users... And download them from eatchother
>> and not everybody from one server...
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net
>>[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net] On Behalf Of Nathan Smith
>> Sent: woensdag 7 mei 2003 16:06
>>To: 'mythtv-users@snowman.net'
>>Subject: [mythtv-users] Day Dream MythTV P2P Network
>>
>>
>>
>>Wouldn't it be cool (and illegal) if all MythTV machines could
>>participate in a P2P network? If you missed recording a show your
>> MythMAchine could snatch it from across the network.
>>Of course you could probably patch it together now with Gnutella or
>> something, but it would be cool if it was a MythTV-Exclusive network?
>>
>>-Nate
>>___
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@snowman.net
> http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

I too have thought of a similar idea. After spending many hours and $$ on
mythtv it would suck not to have a program listing.

<These are all North American based thoughts>

The P2P network could be populated with something along the lines of a
single file per day per network per timezone.
I can see where local stations might be a problem, but the generic network
listing might be enough.
Using a zipcode would make things a bit more complex.
So an alternate "mythfilldatabase" might peruse the p2p network filling in
the database using files it has found that meets the criteria.

<date><numeric network code><numeric timezone code>.tgz

0507200300090001.tgz

let's pretend:
0009 is HBO
0001 is eastern standard time.

These numbers were pulled out of thin air of course.

Forgive the mailed brainstorm.

Calvin...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Schmidt" <joe_schmidt@nospammail.net>
To: "Discussion about mythtv" <mythtv-users@snowman.net>
Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2003 10:26 AM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Day Dream MythTV P2P Network


> I've been thinking of a similar idea. It could also have elements of
> Shoutcast, and people could arrange their own videos, effectively
> creating their own TV show or channel. Distributing broadcasts might be
> a violation of copyright law (hasn't stopped many people) but there's
> legitimate use to get MythTVers networking. It doesn't necessarily need
> to be a PART of MythTV though. I've been thinking why people don't set
> up mirrors for TV listings...
>
> Watteel Pascal wrote:
>
> >Or even better to make a network where all the mythtv check the listings
> >he got wit hother users... And download them from eatchother and not
> >everybody from one server...
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net
> >[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net] On Behalf Of Nathan Smith
> >Sent: woensdag 7 mei 2003 16:06
> >To: 'mythtv-users@snowman.net'
> >Subject: [mythtv-users] Day Dream MythTV P2P Network
> >
> >
> >
> >Wouldn't it be cool (and illegal) if all MythTV machines could
> >participate in a P2P network? If you missed recording a show your
> >MythMAchine could snatch it from across the network.
> >Of course you could probably patch it together now with Gnutella or
> >something, but it would be cool if it was a MythTV-Exclusive network?
> >
> >-Nate
> >___
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@snowman.net
> http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users

Completely uninteresting to me. The bandwith requirements are too much
and I don't like the idea of exposing the project to legal risk. I
believe that linux people have a underserved reputation as pirates, and
add on top of that the broad appeal myth could have and I think it is
possible that some big powerful companies would come sniffing around
trying to find something illegal about what we do. I think if we stick
to exercising our fair use right to time-shift content, and stay away
from anything fishy we would be able to withstand such scrutiny. The
last thing we need is to see Isaac hauled to court by the TV industry.



Cedar


Nathan Smith wrote:

>Wouldn't it be cool (and illegal) if all MythTV machines could participate
>in a P2P network? If you missed recording a show your MythMAchine could
>snatch it from across the network.
>Of course you could probably patch it together now with Gnutella or
>something, but it would be cool if it was a MythTV-Exclusive network?
>
>-Nate
>_______________________________________________
>mythtv-users mailing list
>mythtv-users@snowman.net
>http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>
>

Cedar McKay said:
> Completely uninteresting to me. The bandwith requirements are too much
> and I don't like the idea of exposing the project to legal risk.
>
Totally agree. The thought *IS* a good one, but transfering 1GB+ is a
killer.

> believe that linux people have a underserved reputation as pirates
>
I don't know about that...linux people use linux apps...and most of those
fall under GPL. Pirating GPL software is kinda pointless ;)

> add on top of that the broad appeal myth could have and I think it is
> possible that some big powerful companies would come sniffing around
> trying to find something illegal about what we do. I think if we stick
> to exercising our fair use right to time-shift content, and stay away
> from anything fishy we would be able to withstand such scrutiny. The
> last thing we need is to see Isaac hauled to court by the TV industry.
>
Well, if it's only Isaac being hauled away <g>. Just kidding Isaac! But
Cedar brings up a good point. With MythTV getting as strong as it is, we
really need to be careful that we don't tred in illegal waters.

Jeremy

thor said:
> On Wednesday 07 May 2003 04:23 pm, Cedar McKay wrote:
>
>> possible that some big powerful companies would come sniffing around
>> trying to find something illegal about what we do.
>
> Not to get all high and mighty on the Jeffersonian Democracy thing, but
> I always look at incumbent power as a challenge, not something to be
> hiding from. Call me crazy ...
>
Of course, the good ol' US of A is not based on the Jeffersonian Democracy
thing. It's more a case of "which industry or large corporation thinks
they're losing a little bit of cash and how many politicians are up for
re-election". Or in better terms: he with the money wins.

Crap, did I just open the gates to a flame war? If so, someone please
close 'em!

>
>
>>possible that some big powerful companies would come sniffing around
>>trying to find something illegal about what we do.
>>
>>
>
> Not to get all high and mighty on the Jeffersonian Democracy thing, but I
>always look at incumbent power as a challenge, not something to be hiding
>from. Call me crazy ...
>
>
>

I agree. That is why I think we need to be completely legal and have all
our ducks in a row. That way if someone big does get aggressive with us
we can tell them to stuff it, and fight them like hell. Free council
from sypathetic lawyers or perhaps the EFF is likely to follow. If we
are not completely legal we are in a much tougher spot, and are less
likely to get support from friendly lawyers. We need to be in a position
of strength. Also, I am all for pushing to the limits of our freedom,
particulary with respect to fair use. I'm just suggesting we don't
wander off into areas that are clearly illegal.


Cedar

A separate project to handle P2P videos would be about as legal as any
other filesharing network, and it COULD be an avenue for legal
broadcasts (public domain or self-created works). I agree that MythTV
should stay in the clear, but I'd be glad to work on a project alongside
MythTV that accomplishes streaming P2P. Isolate it from MythTV, but
perhaps make them compatible? I should be worrying about getting MythTV
working first, at any rate.

An idea I had: Someone in Ireland views a streamed broadcast from a
server in France. A person in Germany connects to the person in Ireland,
another German connects to the first German, the German connects to
someone in England, a person in the United States connects to a person
in England, and a person in Canada connects to the person in the United
States. If we treated clients as servers, and made routes to different
broadcasts based on latency, we could have a pretty far-reaching,
scalable network without having some dedicated high-capacity central
servers.


Cedar McKay wrote:

>>
>>
>>> possible that some big powerful companies would come sniffing around
>>> trying to find something illegal about what we do.
>>>
>>
>>
>> Not to get all high and mighty on the Jeffersonian Democracy
>> thing, but I always look at incumbent power as a challenge, not
>> something to be hiding from. Call me crazy ...
>>
>>
>>
>
> I agree. That is why I think we need to be completely legal and have
> all our ducks in a row. That way if someone big does get aggressive
> with us we can tell them to stuff it, and fight them like hell. Free
> council from sypathetic lawyers or perhaps the EFF is likely to
> follow. If we are not completely legal we are in a much tougher spot,
> and are less likely to get support from friendly lawyers. We need to
> be in a position of strength. Also, I am all for pushing to the limits
> of our freedom, particulary with respect to fair use. I'm just
> suggesting we don't wander off into areas that are clearly illegal.
>
>
> Cedar

Mmm, maybe more of a philosophical/legal discussion- I certainly don't want
a flame war, this stuff is too fun to get all serious about. It was a
daydream/embryonic idea and I don't want anyone to put the Kibosh on MythTV.

That said, the movie industry now makes it possible for me to download a
whole Movie for $2-$4 USD over my 144kb IDSL and view it on my computer.
With the right codec (DIVX?) the file size could become a non-issue.

If we are "timeshifting" now is it that big of a leap to "virtual
timeshifting" or "virtual recording". Maybe the networks will let us get
away with it if we all sign a statement promising to watch all the
commercials instead of skipping them. Wink, wink, nudge, nudge.

Perhaps a Gnutella client that integrates easily would be the way to do it
safely. Like selling the parts to make weapons automatically separately
from the weapon itself?

-Nate


thor said:
> On Wednesday 07 May 2003 04:23 pm, Cedar McKay wrote:
>
>> possible that some big powerful companies would come sniffing around
>> trying to find something illegal about what we do.
>
> Not to get all high and mighty on the Jeffersonian Democracy thing, but
> I always look at incumbent power as a challenge, not something to be
> hiding from. Call me crazy ...
>
Of course, the good ol' US of A is not based on the Jeffersonian Democracy
thing. It's more a case of "which industry or large corporation thinks
they're losing a little bit of cash and how many politicians are up for
re-election". Or in better terms: he with the money wins.

Crap, did I just open the gates to a flame war? If so, someone please
close 'em!

Just use bit torrent. http://www.torrentse.cx/
Its already there. We can just use that. Simple, works, and already made.

Tom Howard

On Wednesday 07 May 2003 04:23 pm, Cedar McKay wrote:

> possible that some big powerful companies would come sniffing around
> trying to find something illegal about what we do.

Not to get all high and mighty on the Jeffersonian Democracy thing, but I
always look at incumbent power as a challenge, not something to be hiding
from. Call me crazy ...

- thor

Tom Howard wrote:

>Just use bit torrent. http://www.torrentse.cx/
>Its already there. We can just use that. Simple, works, and already made.
>
>Tom Howard
>
>
That looks more like a wholesale method of pirating movies, rather than
a way to exchange or stream broadcast TV.

Nevermind, I misinterpreted the nature of the project. Still not exactly
what I had in mind (maybe it was exactly what someone else had in mind?)
but it seems pretty groovy.

Joe Schmidt wrote:

> Tom Howard wrote:
>
>> Just use bit torrent. http://www.torrentse.cx/
>> Its already there. We can just use that. Simple, works, and already
>> made.
>>
>> Tom Howard
>>
>>
> That looks more like a wholesale method of pirating movies, rather
> than a way to exchange or stream broadcast TV.
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-users mailing list
> mythtv-users@snowman.net
> http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users
>

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, May 07, 2003 at 05:48:34PM -0400, Joe Schmidt wrote:
> Tom Howard wrote:
>
> >Just use bit torrent. http://www.torrentse.cx/
> >Its already there. We can just use that. Simple, works, and already made.
> >
> >Tom Howard
> >
> >
> That looks more like a wholesale method of pirating movies, rather than
> a way to exchange or stream broadcast TV.

Umm, then you don't know much about bit torrent. It is used for the most
part for trading broadcast TV and FLACs of concerts. The nice thing is that
it is fairly bandwidth friendly. Unfortunately, the link provided by Howard
is less than representative.

Jeff
- --
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Computer Science is as much about computers as astronomy is about telescopes
-- Edsger Wybe Dijkstra (1930-2002)
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.2.2 (GNU/Linux)

iD8DBQE+uYMyXazNjIaibJERAphLAJ9UTAAIjkzeHkuTNl3Wv3aHL9l9yQCeMXzz
4oygGCxjbfCp+EFtJubWrQw=
=Euzi
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

Sorry about that... but that's where I go to trade my tv shows. Basically,
I was meaning to suggest using bit torrent (since it's bandwidth friendly)
and having a site kind of like that where we can exchange shows.

--Tom


>Umm, then you don't know much about bit torrent. It is used for the most
>part for trading broadcast TV and FLACs of concerts. The nice thing is
>that
>it is fairly bandwidth friendly. Unfortunately, the link provided by
>Howard
>is less than representative.
>
>Jeff

On Wednesday 07 May 2003 07:23 pm, Tom Howard wrote:
> Sorry about that... but that's where I go to trade my tv shows.
> Basically, I was meaning to suggest using bit torrent (since it's bandwidth
> friendly) and having a site kind of like that where we can exchange shows.

This discussion does not belong on the mythtv list.

Isaac