Mailing List Archive

jbeuree@rogers.com wrote:

>the 'low budget' cards would probably be better. Does anyone know of any other drawbacks with these?
>
They can't prefilter the videostream, resulting in a bit larger load on
the machine, but that should be about it.

>The Hauppauge WinTV Nova looks like a reasonable choice to me.
>
Yes. I'll probably buy them as well.

>Is there anything else I need to be aware of when specifically considering these cards for myth?
>
Yes, MythTV doesn't support them yet. I am working on it as we're
speaking, but it's very rough, I'd classify it as experimental. If you
have some debugging experience and are willing to invest time, you are
invited to help. Otherwise, I'd wait until it matured.

Greetings,

Ben

Ben,

Would the issue around cards not being able to prefilter cause a significantly larger load on the PCI bus? I'd eventually like to have a machine with a couple of these cards (and maybe even keep a cable tuner in it also). But if this would prevent this setup I may be better off getting a better card.

I do realize the code is experimental. I'd love to help work on it except I'm in the middle of a move and renovations at the moment. It'll probably be a while before I have time to work on setting up the card anyway. Maybe once things settle down some and I have a some time again.

There's a few little things I'd love to have time to do in addition to this also(e.g. volume controls in MythMusic).

Jerry

> From: Ben Bucksch <linux.news@bucksch.org>
> Date: 2003/05/06 Tue AM 10:50:51 EDT
> To: Discussion about mythtv <mythtv-users@snowman.net>
> Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] DVB-S support and mythtv
>
> jbeuree@rogers.com wrote:
>
> >the 'low budget' cards would probably be better. Does anyone know of any other drawbacks with these?
> >
> They can't prefilter the videostream, resulting in a bit larger load on
> the machine, but that should be about it.
>
> >The Hauppauge WinTV Nova looks like a reasonable choice to me.
> >
> Yes. I'll probably buy them as well.
>
> >Is there anything else I need to be aware of when specifically considering these cards for myth?
> >
> Yes, MythTV doesn't support them yet. I am working on it as we're
> speaking, but it's very rough, I'd classify it as experimental. If you
> have some debugging experience and are willing to invest time, you are
> invited to help. Otherwise, I'd wait until it matured.
>
> Greetings,
>
> Ben

jbeuree@rogers.com wrote:

>Would the issue around cards not being able to prefilter cause a significantly larger load on the PCI bus?
>
I don't think that PCI is an issue, I think we have a TS of maybe
16Mbit/s or something in that area. I was more concerned about RAM
bandwidth. But I don't think that's going to be a problem either. It's
not *that* much of data to process.

If anybody has more concrete data about the size of transport streams
and the load that PID filtering and TS->PS conversion brings per card,
I'd like to know it.

In any case, I think the code should work with both types of card. But I
don't know, I'll need to test it.

>I'd eventually like to have a machine with a couple of these cards (and maybe even keep a cable tuner in it also).
>
me too. Note that they are limited to 4 per machine, I think.

>But if this would prevent this setup I may be better off getting a better card.
>
I will personally go with 2 Nova cards and maybe keeping the analog card
for backup.

Remember also that you only "need" one card per transport stream. For DVB-T users say, this probably means that two cards would get you nearly all channels available simultaneously (4 are required at most).

PCI bandwidth is much lower than Memory bandwidth. Memory bandwidth is up to 2-4Gb/s (depends on MB), but PCI is 132Mb/s

-----Original Message-----
From: Ben Bucksch [mailto:linux.news@bucksch.org]
Sent: 06 May 2003 18:07
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] DVB-S support and mythtv


jbeuree@rogers.com wrote:

>Would the issue around cards not being able to prefilter cause a significantly larger load on the PCI bus?
>
I don't think that PCI is an issue, I think we have a TS of maybe
16Mbit/s or something in that area. I was more concerned about RAM
bandwidth. But I don't think that's going to be a problem either. It's
not *that* much of data to process.

If anybody has more concrete data about the size of transport streams
and the load that PID filtering and TS->PS conversion brings per card,
I'd like to know it.

In any case, I think the code should work with both types of card. But I
don't know, I'll need to test it.

>I'd eventually like to have a machine with a couple of these cards (and maybe even keep a cable tuner in it also).
>
me too. Note that they are limited to 4 per machine, I think.

>But if this would prevent this setup I may be better off getting a better card.
>
I will personally go with 2 Nova cards and maybe keeping the analog card
for backup.

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The only thing with Bell Expressvu and other DVB satellite services is that
they are encrypted streams, now there are some pci DVB cards that have
smartcard slots but I doubt they support the encryption Bell Expressvu uses
( a modified Nagravision ). The only problem that I see with it is the BEV's
implementation uses 2 keys, the one on your smartcard and one stored on a
chip in the receiver so to do BEV on a PC you'd either have to "pull" your
box keys and connect your smartcard to the computer or just have a universal
decrypter ( opening the door for signal pirates ).

I think the only functional way to do it will be to create a software
program to decrypt the stream which raises some ethical questions, even if
there was a mechanism to require a smartcard be connected to be used as
"proof" you had the subscription, somebody would just compile a new version
of the program that didn't require it.

Thoughts? And are there many people out there who would take advantage of a
Bell Expressvu solution?

- John

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net] On Behalf Of jbeuree@rogers.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:43 AM
To: mythtv-users@snowman.net
Subject: [mythtv-users] DVB-S support and mythtv


Hi all,

I've recently started using myth with a standard tuner card and cable tv.
The current version of myth is quite impressive. I'm looking at trying out
myth with a satellite (Bell Expressvu here in Canada) and am looking for
some suggestions and opinions on DVB cards.

From what I can tell, the 'full' DVB cards include hardware decoding
>and tv out. This doesn't appear to be useful for myth, as it has its
>own output for the OSD and other features. As such, the 'low budget'
>cards would probably be better. Does anyone know of any other drawbacks
>with these? The Hauppauge WinTV Nova looks like a reasonable choice to
>me.

Is there anything else I need to be aware of when specifically considering
these cards for myth? I've already got an ATI remote, so I don't need a card
that includes that.

Cheers,
Jerry

1

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mythtv-users@snowman.net
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I think you should contact Hauppauge or Technotrends. They will quickly be able to confirm if the CIM module (or whatever it is called) will work for your satellite. Also, if it doesn't work then you are at least registering interest in them getting working hardware for you



-----Original Message-----
From: John Kelley [mailto:john@kelley.ca]
Sent: 06 May 2003 18:55
To: 'Discussion about mythtv'
Subject: RE: [mythtv-users] DVB-S support and mythtv


The only thing with Bell Expressvu and other DVB satellite services is that
they are encrypted streams, now there are some pci DVB cards that have
smartcard slots but I doubt they support the encryption Bell Expressvu uses
( a modified Nagravision ). The only problem that I see with it is the BEV's
implementation uses 2 keys, the one on your smartcard and one stored on a
chip in the receiver so to do BEV on a PC you'd either have to "pull" your
box keys and connect your smartcard to the computer or just have a universal
decrypter ( opening the door for signal pirates ).

I think the only functional way to do it will be to create a software
program to decrypt the stream which raises some ethical questions, even if
there was a mechanism to require a smartcard be connected to be used as
"proof" you had the subscription, somebody would just compile a new version
of the program that didn't require it.

Thoughts? And are there many people out there who would take advantage of a
Bell Expressvu solution?

- John

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net] On Behalf Of jbeuree@rogers.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2003 11:43 AM
To: mythtv-users@snowman.net
Subject: [mythtv-users] DVB-S support and mythtv


Hi all,

I've recently started using myth with a standard tuner card and cable tv.
The current version of myth is quite impressive. I'm looking at trying out
myth with a satellite (Bell Expressvu here in Canada) and am looking for
some suggestions and opinions on DVB cards.

From what I can tell, the 'full' DVB cards include hardware decoding
>and tv out. This doesn't appear to be useful for myth, as it has its
>own output for the OSD and other features. As such, the 'low budget'
>cards would probably be better. Does anyone know of any other drawbacks
>with these? The Hauppauge WinTV Nova looks like a reasonable choice to
>me.

Is there anything else I need to be aware of when specifically considering
these cards for myth? I've already got an ATI remote, so I don't need a card
that includes that.

Cheers,
Jerry

1

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Edward Wildgoose wrote:

>PCI bandwidth is much lower than Memory bandwidth. Memory bandwidth is up to 2-4Gb/s (depends on MB), but PCI is 132Mb/s
>
Yes, but we're processing it, so oit's probably shuffled around a few times.