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I think this is a great idea.

However, I think that if you wanted to build a *business* then a really great forward would be to try and build into the price some slack to either "pay" developers for new feature requests, or perhaps just to effectively offer a "licence" cost back to help fund future developments. There is obviously no *obligation* to do this, but I would like to think that we can give something back to Isaac and the other developers who have contributed to this great project

Good luck!
----- Original Message -----
From: ramon.roca@xcombo.com
To: Discussion about mythtv
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 7:15 PM
Subject: [mythtv-users] selling hardware


I've already seen a post with this subject before.

The fact is that in the very last days weeks, as soon as I've got my box working, I'm getting friends who ask me for bulding another one for them. At this point I've already built half dozen of units, you can imagine, no free time since that.
That is giving me a lot of work since right now I was still not able to create a linux image with everything and then just dump it on the new hardware. But hopefully I'll be able to do it in the near future.
What I'm configuring currently is a box with a full featured linux (I've tried with RedHat and SuSE), with a Pinnacle PCTV pro, Hauppauge Nexus-s for Satellite TV, MSI Hermes 650-P barebone box, a wireless PCMCIA to get networked, a 1700 Celeron and a 80GB HDF. I'm curretly using both mythtv (CVS) and vdr (which means many overlaped functionality).

What happens here (Spain) is that there is nothing like TiVo (yet), and the ones that will come in the future looks like will be related to commercial broadcasting platforms/initiatives that in any case will be based on commercial software and a monthly fee.

What I see is that this kind of set-top box is really attractive, but for any people who don't have previous experience in linux (like me three months before), requires time and investigation to let it work, as well of risks having to choose the appropiate hardware etc. At least that was my experience.

Since I'm really excited on this idea, and as long as it fits into my possibilities, I don't care of spending time building those boxes. I think that it is a way also for extending the use of linux to people who otherwise will not have ever a chance for it.

Being realistic, that's not a business. I'm not a harware dealer. In fact I'm selling those units installed, with a lot of time spent on each one without extra cost for the buyer: the software is GNU and the hardware, whatever it costs. At this point I do only see a testimonial return as soon as I get discounts from the hardware distributors (5%, max 10%).

But again, I think that doing this I'm doing the right thing and contributing to this king of projects and the linux community.

If someone else is also interested on doing this, maybe we can setup together a serious inititiative around the globe (I haven't seen in Spain people doing this yet). Maybe someone else is already in the same situation like me. Let me know if anyone is interested.

Ramon.






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I had also toyed with suggesting a licensing scheme (if I ever manage to get my own test system working and eventually get a business built around the same concept) but I'd also thought that maybe the core developers could be paid on a contract basis to work on such demanding things as fixing the EPG when Zap2It changed their schema/shuts their doors and other such disastrous events that would otherwise render Myth useless or at a serious disadvantage. Let's face it, without an EPG it becomes far less attractive so there's incentive for a supplier to get such things worked out ASAP and an incentive for the core developers to be paid for their hard work.
Certainly something to ponder I think.
----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Wildgoose
To: ramon.roca@xcombo.com ; Discussion about mythtv
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] selling hardware


I think this is a great idea.

However, I think that if you wanted to build a *business* then a really great forward would be to try and build into the price some slack to either "pay" developers for new feature requests, or perhaps just to effectively offer a "licence" cost back to help fund future developments. There is obviously no *obligation* to do this, but I would like to think that we can give something back to Isaac and the other developers who have contributed to this great project

Good luck!
----- Original Message -----
From: ramon.roca@xcombo.com
To: Discussion about mythtv
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 7:15 PM
Subject: [mythtv-users] selling hardware


I've already seen a post with this subject before.

The fact is that in the very last days weeks, as soon as I've got my box working, I'm getting friends who ask me for bulding another one for them. At this point I've already built half dozen of units, you can imagine, no free time since that.
That is giving me a lot of work since right now I was still not able to create a linux image with everything and then just dump it on the new hardware. But hopefully I'll be able to do it in the near future.
What I'm configuring currently is a box with a full featured linux (I've tried with RedHat and SuSE), with a Pinnacle PCTV pro, Hauppauge Nexus-s for Satellite TV, MSI Hermes 650-P barebone box, a wireless PCMCIA to get networked, a 1700 Celeron and a 80GB HDF. I'm curretly using both mythtv (CVS) and vdr (which means many overlaped functionality).

What happens here (Spain) is that there is nothing like TiVo (yet), and the ones that will come in the future looks like will be related to commercial broadcasting platforms/initiatives that in any case will be based on commercial software and a monthly fee.

What I see is that this kind of set-top box is really attractive, but for any people who don't have previous experience in linux (like me three months before), requires time and investigation to let it work, as well of risks having to choose the appropiate hardware etc. At least that was my experience.

Since I'm really excited on this idea, and as long as it fits into my possibilities, I don't care of spending time building those boxes. I think that it is a way also for extending the use of linux to people who otherwise will not have ever a chance for it.

Being realistic, that's not a business. I'm not a harware dealer. In fact I'm selling those units installed, with a lot of time spent on each one without extra cost for the buyer: the software is GNU and the hardware, whatever it costs. At this point I do only see a testimonial return as soon as I get discounts from the hardware distributors (5%, max 10%).

But again, I think that doing this I'm doing the right thing and contributing to this king of projects and the linux community.

If someone else is also interested on doing this, maybe we can setup together a serious inititiative around the globe (I haven't seen in Spain people doing this yet). Maybe someone else is already in the same situation like me. Let me know if anyone is interested.

Ramon.






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mythtv-users mailing list
mythtv-users@snowman.net
http://lists.snowman.net/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-users



------------------------------------------------------------------------------


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----- Original Message -----
From: Alex Davidson
To: Discussion about mythtv
Sent: Monday, April 28, 2003 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] selling hardware


> I had also toyed with suggesting a licensing scheme (if I ever manage to
get my own test system working and eventually get a business built around
the same concept)

----- Original Message -----
From: Edward Wildgoose
To: ramon.roca@xcombo.com ; Discussion about mythtv
Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2003 2:42 PM
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] selling hardware

> I think this is a great idea.

> However, I think that if you wanted to build a *business* then a really
great forward would be to try and build into the price some slack to either
"pay" developers

Totally agree Edward,
However, in my opinion, being realistic, to talk about real business with
earnings looks wonderful but I don't think that makes sense (yet), GNU
software and the software that someone ads to it never can be licensed, and
many things still to mature.
I'm just talking at this point of selling hardware that we know that works,
configure it and therefore help beginners join to this project and sharing
experiences between those who do this. At this point I don't see earnings in
term of benefits, even if you do sell harware, the margins do not provide
such possibilities, and adding an extra cost, for instance, as a service for
configuration, for something that can break in any moment.... by now just
getting the money back and spending time on it And time, like probably many
of you is something that I don't have in excess. I'm still looking in many
things and let's see if can finish some of them!
Anyway, again, if anybody is interested, specially in Spain, and if fits
into my possibilities and constraints, I'll try to help. And if anybody else
wants to share reources that could be excellent as well.
I'm just thinking... providing disk images to dump over specific hardware
configurations, constructing a site to build a community of who are doing
this, to give an example, there are many questions that those buyers can
come to you, like helping them to synch their palm or download their digital
fotos from their camera!, which obviously is not a mythtv question...,
selecting hardware, maybe hardware comparisons? look i.e. at vcdhelp.com...
I don't know, comments wellcome,.
Of course, if the things mature, and a real revenue stream comes with
earnings, i.e. as an internet shop, then the developers should somehow
either get paid or be invited to join the activity, I don't now. But that's
future.
My current plans are still to maintain the current job that I'm getting paid
for and therefore be able to handle my mortage... In the meantime I have to
find time for building another box that a friend have asked me for, see if I
can do something on the DVB thing, maintan the xmltv grabber for Spain and
also to allow some translations happens ... :)

Ramon.

> Totally agree Edward,
> However, in my opinion, being realistic, to talk about real business with
> earnings looks wonderful but I don't think that makes sense (yet), GNU
> software and the software that someone ads to it never can be licensed,
and
> many things still to mature.

Completely agree. It's tough. I guess I just hope that people *think*
about trying to build in some margin to try and feed back into the project.
It could be as simple as charging 20Euros extra per box and sending it to
your favourite developer via paypal.

Or perhaps a friend is willing to pay for a feature to be added?

Anyway, clearly difficult, but it doesn't prevent us trying.

Good luck Isaac and others. Great project I really look forward to seeing
what gets added each week!

Thanks

> Van: ramon.roca@xcombo.com
>
> I'm just talking at this point of selling hardware that we know that
> works, configure it and therefore help beginners join to this project and
> sharing experiences between those who do this.

Indeed, selling (assembled?) hardware with an installed Linux distro and
"some software, which includes MythTV" seems doable. No support for
software, but broken hardware should be dealt with off coarse. Just a
community site with fora, mailinglists and documentation.

> I'm just thinking... providing disk images to dump over specific hardware
> configurations,

btw, in the case you didn't find it already, partimage is a good OSS
partition imager.

> constructing a site to build a community of who are doing
> this, to give an example, there are many questions that those buyers can
> come to you, like helping them to synch their palm or download their
> digital fotos from their camera!, which obviously is not a mythtv
> question..., selecting hardware, maybe hardware comparisons? look i.e. at
> vcdhelp.com...
> I don't know, comments wellcome,.

If you are going to setup a thing like this you might want to discuss a bit
with webmasters of big Linux(-newbie) community sites, exchange ideas,
software (= PHP scripts). Not that I expect this will become 'the next
slashdot' or something that big. But you'll have more visitors and posts
than doable in something normal phpbb forum.

Though it is possible with more 'out of the box' OSS software, a 'smallish'
site like knoppix.org is good example. You just need to get the 'mood'
right, as new users encounter people who like to help you, they will be
quite likely to answer some questions for others.

Henk Poley <><