Mailing List Archive

Screen Saver for Widescreen TVs
A friend of mine has a problem with his new TV that I thought MythTV might be able to solve. He has a widescreen TV with a 16:9 aspect ratio, but there are no HGTV channels in our area, and our cable system provides the standard 4:3 aspect ratio picture. It's still a great TV for watching widescreen DVDs, but when watching regular TV he has to either watch a picture with gray bars on each side or use one of the TVs scaling features to fill up the whole screen.

For some shows, the scaling feature work great, but for many, the picture with the gray bars looks the best. The problem is that the TV comes with VERY BIG WARNING LABELS saying to watch it in that mode only 20% of the time as it could cause the picture tube to wear unevenly. We asked about this problem at a couple of stores, and one salesman said that he had indeed seen store sets which had been left in the "gray bar mode" 24/7 for a long time which had developed noticeable bars down the sides when displaying in full screen modes.

I did a little online research, and it seems like a lot of TVs have this problem. Some of them have some screen saver features to attempt to combat the problem, but I haven't seen any that really seem satisfactory. So I have some questions for the vast base of wisdom on this list:

1) What experience has everyone had with this?
2) What TV features are there to combat the problem?
3) Could a feature be added to MythTV to combat the problem?

Here's my "perfect" solution: when displaying a 4:3 aspect ratio picture, for each line of pixels, repeat the leftmost pixel out to the left and repeat the rightmost picture out to the right. The normal changing of the TV picture would cause the repeated pixels to change, thus saving the screen from unequal aging. The PERFECT TV would have sliding doors to cover the repeated sections of the screen - I know even MythTV can't do THAT, but my friend and I could probably kludge up something that would work - curtains or something.

Any ideas or information are welcome.

Drew
Re: Screen Saver for Widescreen TVs [ In reply to ]
> Any ideas or information are welcome.
>

I have a widescreen TV, but fortunately it is uses a tube. Plasma and
rear-projection TVs are the ones that really suffer from the burn-in
problem.

Unfortunately, I imagine most TV-outs on your standard video cards are
set for NTSC or PAL, and not for HDTV formats. What would be ideal
would be to change the MythTV GUI size settings to use a 16x9 aspect
ratio (1080x608, or something) and have a sufficiently expensive video
card that'll do HD out through a DVI connection.

My point is that if you're just using the standard TV-out, you cannot
truly send a 16x9 picture, or do anything to the "sides" of the image.
You only output a 4x3. If you want to zoom, stretch, or add the grye
bars, that is up to the TV to figure out how to display a 4x3 image in a
16x9 space.

For me and my Myth box, I just use my TV's "panorama" setting slightly
stretch the image to fill the screen so I don't have to worry about
uneven burn-in. For my tube TV that's not *really* a factor as much as
it is with RPTV or plasma, but it's more for the looks.

I would suggest checking out some of the HTPC (Home Theater PC) forums
on hometheaterspot or avsforum, as a lot of people there are connecting
HD-capable PCs to their HDTVs.

-Mike

--
Michael J. Sherman | msherman@stealthboy.dyndns.org
"Political correctness is just tyranny with manners." -Charlton Heston
RE: Screen Saver for Widescreen TVs [ In reply to ]
Can't you just connect an hdtv to a vid card via dvi and use it as a
monitor? You shouldn't have to use tvout at all

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net] On Behalf Of Michael J.
Sherman
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 8:50 AM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Screen Saver for Widescreen TVs




> Any ideas or information are welcome.
>

I have a widescreen TV, but fortunately it is uses a tube. Plasma and
rear-projection TVs are the ones that really suffer from the burn-in
problem.

Unfortunately, I imagine most TV-outs on your standard video cards are
set for NTSC or PAL, and not for HDTV formats. What would be ideal
would be to change the MythTV GUI size settings to use a 16x9 aspect
ratio (1080x608, or something) and have a sufficiently expensive video
card that'll do HD out through a DVI connection.

My point is that if you're just using the standard TV-out, you cannot
truly send a 16x9 picture, or do anything to the "sides" of the image.
You only output a 4x3. If you want to zoom, stretch, or add the grye
bars, that is up to the TV to figure out how to display a 4x3 image in a

16x9 space.

For me and my Myth box, I just use my TV's "panorama" setting slightly
stretch the image to fill the screen so I don't have to worry about
uneven burn-in. For my tube TV that's not *really* a factor as much as
it is with RPTV or plasma, but it's more for the looks.

I would suggest checking out some of the HTPC (Home Theater PC) forums
on hometheaterspot or avsforum, as a lot of people there are connecting
HD-capable PCs to their HDTVs.

-Mike

--
Michael J. Sherman | msherman@stealthboy.dyndns.org
"Political correctness is just tyranny with manners." -Charlton Heston

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Re: Screen Saver for Widescreen TVs [ In reply to ]
John Kelley wrote:

>Can't you just connect an hdtv to a vid card via dvi and use it as a
>monitor? You shouldn't have to use tvout at all
>
>
Unfortunately, this doesn't always work. Apparently the HDTV
manufacturers are incredibly lax in their DVI implementation... they
obviously never thought people would try to hook their computers up, so
lots of TVs don't send any plug'n'play timing info. Because HDTV
resolutions and refresh rates aren't standard PC ones, you have to
figure out the timing info for your tv and set your X server to do it
manually.

And even if you do all that, you typically get a *lot* of overscanning,
and it looks terrible. So, while it is possible, it's sort of a pain in
the ass and doesn't really help things that much.

This is why I'm trying to find a Canadian dealer who will sell me a set
Sampo makes... it has an SVGA input on the back, and works as a PnP
computer monitor as well as a widescreen HDTV. :)

Graeme
RE: Screen Saver for Widescreen TVs [ In reply to ]
Nice, I think the sonys will work, or at least the ppl in the sony store
say they will....

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net] On Behalf Of Unit3
Sent: Sunday, March 02, 2003 3:07 PM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Screen Saver for Widescreen TVs


John Kelley wrote:

>Can't you just connect an hdtv to a vid card via dvi and use it as a
>monitor? You shouldn't have to use tvout at all
>
>
Unfortunately, this doesn't always work. Apparently the HDTV
manufacturers are incredibly lax in their DVI implementation... they
obviously never thought people would try to hook their computers up, so
lots of TVs don't send any plug'n'play timing info. Because HDTV
resolutions and refresh rates aren't standard PC ones, you have to
figure out the timing info for your tv and set your X server to do it
manually.

And even if you do all that, you typically get a *lot* of overscanning,
and it looks terrible. So, while it is possible, it's sort of a pain in
the ass and doesn't really help things that much.

This is why I'm trying to find a Canadian dealer who will sell me a set
Sampo makes... it has an SVGA input on the back, and works as a PnP
computer monitor as well as a widescreen HDTV. :)

Graeme

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Re: Screen Saver for Widescreen TVs [ In reply to ]
John Kelley wrote:

>Nice, I think the sonys will work, or at least the ppl in the sony store
>say they will....
>
>
Heh, I'd haul a machine into the store and plug it into the TV before I
bought it. The people at the Sony store say a lot of things. ;)

Anyway, I can't afford what Sony charges for their HDTVs, so I've never
looked at their models. It's entirely possible that because they're a
higher end brand, their DVI connectors work "correctly".
Re: Screen Saver for Widescreen TVs [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 01:18:13PM -0600, Unit3 wrote:
> John Kelley wrote:
>
> >Nice, I think the sonys will work, or at least the ppl in the sony store
> >say they will....

> Heh, I'd haul a machine into the store and plug it into the TV before I
> bought it. The people at the Sony store say a lot of things. ;)
>
> Anyway, I can't afford what Sony charges for their HDTVs, so I've never
> looked at their models. It's entirely possible that because they're a
> higher end brand, their DVI connectors work "correctly".

I can attest to the fact that they do work right =)

http://www.poptix.net/albums/random/DSC00034.jpg

_very_ nice, especially with a video card that supports the wide
resolutions you need for such a beast. Quite an advantage considering you
actually see a wider playing field.

--
Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH Certified
http://www.poptix.net GPG public key 0x01938203
RE: Screen Saver for Widescreen TVs [ In reply to ]
What model is that? It looks like a plasme display (or am I just not
seeing part of the picture?)

- John

-----Original Message-----
From: mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net
[mailto:mythtv-users-bounces@snowman.net] On Behalf Of Matthew S.
Hallacy
Sent: Monday, March 24, 2003 1:41 PM
To: Discussion about mythtv
Subject: Re: [mythtv-users] Screen Saver for Widescreen TVs


On Sun, Mar 02, 2003 at 01:18:13PM -0600, Unit3 wrote:
> John Kelley wrote:
>
> >Nice, I think the sonys will work, or at least the ppl in the sony
> >store say they will....

> Heh, I'd haul a machine into the store and plug it into the TV before
> I
> bought it. The people at the Sony store say a lot of things. ;)
>
> Anyway, I can't afford what Sony charges for their HDTVs, so I've
> never
> looked at their models. It's entirely possible that because they're a
> higher end brand, their DVI connectors work "correctly".

I can attest to the fact that they do work right =)

http://www.poptix.net/albums/random/DSC00034.jpg

_very_ nice, especially with a video card that supports the wide
resolutions you need for such a beast. Quite an advantage considering
you actually see a wider playing field.

--
Matthew S. Hallacy FUBAR, LART, BOFH
Certified
http://www.poptix.net GPG public key
0x01938203
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