Mailing List Archive

On 30 August 2013 22:41, Thomas Mashos <thomas@mashos.com> wrote:

> I've made some changes to the Mythbuntu theme for 0.27. Only to the
> recording and video (browser view) screens. I did this to try and show
> more fanart. Here are some screenshots
>
> http://imagebin.org/269181
> http://imagebin.org/269182
> http://imagebin.org/269183
>
> Notice on the first two one is with the group highlighted, the other
> is with the recordings highlighted. The recordings shift to the left
> side when active in order to show the description on the right.
>
> The last one is the mythvideo one, it still shows the fanart on the
> complete background, but for some reason it didn't grab the background
> when I did the screenshot via SSH
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Thomas Mashos
>


Hi Thomas,

Firstly, thanks for this theme. I have been through every single one
during my time with myth and yours is the only one that works right for
me. But I see these changes as a move away from this and more like some of
the others I didn't get on with that well. Just one users opinion of
course!

On the recordings screen, this seems like less fanart, rather than more?
At the moment, with a recording selected, I get a screenshot, "DVD" type
cover and the large background image. On your screenshot, only the large
background image is shown now. This is like most other themes, that don't
show these other images at all, which is a real shame. With transparency
etc I can still see the large background image fine and think it is better
as background, behind the main text, rather than being centre of attention.

Current recordings screen example - http://i.imgur.com/AyA5BOg.jpg

Also, having only 5 recording items shown rather than the current 11 would
make things harder when scrolling through a long list on a remote, over
running what your after and then scrolling back up for example? Think I
would have to try this before dismissing completely I guess, but as
mentioned above, having transparent text over the background image is fine
in my opinion.

With the videos screen, I would just say the same as above, not having the
screen filled with videos seems like a waste in my opinion and the reason I
use your theme, as I think yours is the only one that does this right, by
not having a single vertical/horizontal list of videos to scroll through,
which would just take ages, but a full page, using all the space. But, to
be fair, your new screen shows 13 items compared to the current 15 items,
which makes 13 total screens compared to 11 (rounded up) on my largest
folder which has 158 items.

Anyway, I know you haven't asked for opinions, but saw this post and
thought I would send some anyway!

Cheers

Martin

On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 5:13 AM, Martin Moores <moores.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 30 August 2013 22:41, Thomas Mashos <thomas@mashos.com> wrote:
>>
>> I've made some changes to the Mythbuntu theme for 0.27. Only to the
>> recording and video (browser view) screens. I did this to try and show
>> more fanart. Here are some screenshots
>>
>> http://imagebin.org/269181
>> http://imagebin.org/269182
>> http://imagebin.org/269183
>>
>> Notice on the first two one is with the group highlighted, the other
>> is with the recordings highlighted. The recordings shift to the left
>> side when active in order to show the description on the right.
>>
>> The last one is the mythvideo one, it still shows the fanart on the
>> complete background, but for some reason it didn't grab the background
>> when I did the screenshot via SSH
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Thomas Mashos
>
>
>
> Hi Thomas,
>
> Firstly, thanks for this theme. I have been through every single one during
> my time with myth and yours is the only one that works right for me. But I
> see these changes as a move away from this and more like some of the others
> I didn't get on with that well. Just one users opinion of course!
>
> On the recordings screen, this seems like less fanart, rather than more? At
> the moment, with a recording selected, I get a screenshot, "DVD" type cover
> and the large background image. On your screenshot, only the large
> background image is shown now. This is like most other themes, that don't
> show these other images at all, which is a real shame. With transparency
> etc I can still see the large background image fine and think it is better
> as background, behind the main text, rather than being centre of attention.
>
> Current recordings screen example - http://i.imgur.com/AyA5BOg.jpg
>
> Also, having only 5 recording items shown rather than the current 11 would
> make things harder when scrolling through a long list on a remote, over
> running what your after and then scrolling back up for example? Think I
> would have to try this before dismissing completely I guess, but as
> mentioned above, having transparent text over the background image is fine
> in my opinion.
>
> With the videos screen, I would just say the same as above, not having the
> screen filled with videos seems like a waste in my opinion and the reason I
> use your theme, as I think yours is the only one that does this right, by
> not having a single vertical/horizontal list of videos to scroll through,
> which would just take ages, but a full page, using all the space. But, to
> be fair, your new screen shows 13 items compared to the current 15 items,
> which makes 13 total screens compared to 11 (rounded up) on my largest
> folder which has 158 items.
>
> Anyway, I know you haven't asked for opinions, but saw this post and thought
> I would send some anyway!
>
> Cheers
>
> Martin

everything Martin said. pictures are pretty, but usability is king.

--
Steve
http://www.mythtv.org/wiki/User:Steveadeff
Before you ask, read the FAQ!
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Steven Adeff <adeffs.mythtv@gmail.com> wrote on Sun, Sep 01, 2013 at 10:01:49AM -0400:
> On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 5:13 AM, Martin Moores <moores.martin@gmail.com> wrote:
> > On 30 August 2013 22:41, Thomas Mashos <thomas@mashos.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> I've made some changes to the Mythbuntu theme for 0.27. Only to the
> >> recording and video (browser view) screens. I did this to try and show
> >> more fanart. Here are some screenshots
> >>
> >> http://imagebin.org/269181
> >> http://imagebin.org/269182
> >> http://imagebin.org/269183
> >>
> >> Notice on the first two one is with the group highlighted, the other
> >> is with the recordings highlighted. The recordings shift to the left
> >> side when active in order to show the description on the right.
> >>
> >> The last one is the mythvideo one, it still shows the fanart on the
> >> complete background, but for some reason it didn't grab the background
> >> when I did the screenshot via SSH
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > Also, having only 5 recording items shown rather than the current 11 would
> > make things harder when scrolling through a long list on a remote, over
> > running what your after and then scrolling back up for example? Think I
> > would have to try this before dismissing completely I guess, but as
> > mentioned above, having transparent text over the background image is fine
> > in my opinion.
>
> everything Martin said. pictures are pretty, but usability is king.

I wonder if any usability studies have been done on the optimal number
of items to display on a single page of a paged list. A quick web
search didn't turn up anything useful.

When I started working on my theme, I wanted to fit as many items on
the screen as possible. I had 18 items per page at first, I think. But
I found that to be too many. Once I reached the page containing the
item of interest, if the item was near the middle, it took an annoying
number of keystrokes to reach the item. I ended up settling on 8 per
page.

I think the optimal number would vary depending on the total number of
items in the list. You'd probably want a larger page size for a list
of 1000 movies than a list of 20 TV episodes. This argues for
supporting both "big jumps" and "small jumps" through the list. A
small jump might be 1 page, while a big jump might be 5 pages. Or a
big jump might happen by pressing 8 and moving to the 80% point in the
list. I think I've seen some discussion on the list about MythTV
supporting this or something similar.

Regarding the changes Thomas made to the Mythbuntu theme, I like the
cleaner look of it. But I agree with the others that usability trumps
aesthetics, and in this case I think reducing the number of items per
page to 5 hurts usability. Also, on the recordings screen when the
recordings list has been shifted to the left, I'd miss being able to
see at a glance the dates of all the recordings. With the new version,
I'd have to select a recording to see its date.

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On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 7:41 AM, Thomas Mashos <thomas@mashos.com> wrote:
> I've made some changes to the Mythbuntu theme for 0.27. Only to the
> recording and video (browser view) screens. I did this to try and show
> more fanart. Here are some screenshots
>
> http://imagebin.org/269181
> http://imagebin.org/269182
> http://imagebin.org/269183
>
> Notice on the first two one is with the group highlighted, the other
> is with the recordings highlighted. The recordings shift to the left
> side when active in order to show the description on the right.
>
> The last one is the mythvideo one, it still shows the fanart on the
> complete background, but for some reason it didn't grab the background
> when I did the screenshot via SSH

Speaking purely as a user: Please don't do this to your recording screen.

I like being able to see a decent number of recordings simultaneously,
have Fanart turned off because it reduces readability, and -need- to
be able to see the description at a glance (my guide data often
doesn't have accurate subtitles, or only a date, so descriptions are
vital to telling episodes apart)

When I did use Fanart, it was my experience that the database was very
US-centric, producing no results for Australian content and poor
results for British content. Your proposed changes would result in 2/3
of my screen being filled with emptiness a lot of the time, for no
usability benefit.

- Chris
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On Sat, Aug 31, 2013 at 7:41 AM, Thomas Mashos <thomas@mashos.com> wrote:
> I've made some changes to the Mythbuntu theme for 0.27. Only to the
> recording and video (browser view) screens. I did this to try and show
> more fanart. Here are some screenshots
>
> http://imagebin.org/269181
> http://imagebin.org/269182
> http://imagebin.org/269183
>
> Notice on the first two one is with the group highlighted, the other
> is with the recordings highlighted. The recordings shift to the left
> side when active in order to show the description on the right.
>
> The last one is the mythvideo one, it still shows the fanart on the
> complete background, but for some reason it didn't grab the background
> when I did the screenshot via SSH

Speaking purely as a user: Please don't do this to your recording screen.

I like being able to see a decent number of recordings simultaneously, have
Fanart turned off because it reduces readability, and -need- to be able to
see the description at a glance (my guide data often doesn't have accurate
subtitles, or only a date, so descriptions are vital to telling episodes
apart)

When I did use Fanart, it was my experience that the database was very
US-centric, producing no results for Australian content and poor results for
British content. Your proposed changes would result in 2/3 of my screen
being filled with emptiness a lot of the time, for no usability benefit.

- Chris

Hi Thomas et al, just to prove that you can't please everyone I'd like to
say I'm very keen on the idea of more fanart. Personally I didn't think any
of the themes showed enough so I am currently trying to develop my own that
is a cross between your Mythbuntu theme and the Readability Theme (I need
decent size text to read it even on a big tv). One of the big things I love
as a new MythTV users is that visual punch of the fanart and coverart coming
up on screen as you cycle through recordings.

Co-incidentally I ended up with 8 rows of recordings with the text size that
worked for me.

I've attached a couple of links to where I have got to so far on my
recording screen.

http://imagebin.org/269518
http://imagebin.org/269519
http://imagebin.org/269520
http://imagebin.org/269521


Chris, I would be curious to know what version Myth you are using. With
fixes/0.26 the metadata would not consistently work for me on the Mythbuntu
theme. On 0.27 it is essentially perfect.


Mark

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Joey Morris <rjmorris.list@zoho.com> says:
> I wonder if any usability studies have been done on the optimal number
> of items to display on a single page of a paged list. A quick web
> search didn't turn up anything useful.

Don't forget visibility from across the room, which often goes hand in
hand with this. One of the reasons I chose the Mythbuntu theme despite
never having used any variant of Ubuntu, and later began working on
the theme, was its visibility. Many other themes seem to be written
for those using MythFrontend sitting in front a desktop, instead of
designed around the proverbial "10-foot interface".

> This argues for supporting both "big jumps" and "small jumps"
> through the list. A small jump might be 1 page, while a big jump
> might be 5 pages. Or a big jump might happen by pressing 8 and
> moving to the 80% point in the list. I think I've seen some
> discussion on the list about MythTV supporting this or something
> similar.

Aain, I point to the PAGETOP, PAGEBOTTOM, and PAGEMIDDLE bindings;
they are a huge help in navigating through lists with hundreds or
thousands of entries. I have them bound to 2, 8, and 5 respectively.

--
Yeechang Lee <ylee@pobox.com> | San Francisco
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On Sep 1, 2013, at 11:26, Christopher Kerr <mythtv@theseekerr.com> wrote:

> When I did use Fanart, it was my experience that the database was very
> US-centric, producing no results for Australian content and poor
> results for British content. Your proposed changes would result in 2/3
> of my screen being filled with emptiness a lot of the time, for no
> usability benefit.

TheMovieDb and TheTVDb are both entirely user generated content. If you find them lacking, spend some time and improve them.
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On Mon, Sep 2, 2013 at 7:43 PM, Raymond Wagner <raymond@wagnerrp.com> wrote:
> On Sep 1, 2013, at 11:26, Christopher Kerr <mythtv@theseekerr.com> wrote:
>
>> When I did use Fanart, it was my experience that the database was very
>> US-centric, producing no results for Australian content and poor
>> results for British content. Your proposed changes would result in 2/3
>> of my screen being filled with emptiness a lot of the time, for no
>> usability benefit.
>
> TheMovieDb and TheTVDb are both entirely user generated content. If you find them lacking, spend some time and improve them.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-theming mailing list
> mythtv-theming@mythtv.org
> http://www.mythtv.org/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-theming


Sorry this is so late, apparently I only replied to Yeechang Lee with this.


I've been doing some testing on the recordings screen after hearing
this feedback. This view adds banner and brings back coverart
(although in a different location since the shows are still moving
left). I'm a bit hesitant to put the preview screen back though, as
I've never really liked it that much.

Here's what it looks like so far.

http://imagebin.org/269437

I also want to test rounding out the corners of both the coverart and
banner. I'm toying with the idea of making the top section a bit
thicker and moving the banner up there, then moving the episode icons
(comm flagged, audio, resolution, etc) into the description field.


I think this view gives us the best of both worlds, although it still
needs a bit of tweaking. As for the Mythvideo changes I made, they
were really minor as it was only for the browser view (which looked
almost identical to that anyway.

I'd like to add that I agree with Raymond, the coverart and fanart is
user generated content. Please don't complain to us that it is US
centric, instead go and add content to it that is for your locale
(after all, that is what we did). While I love feedback and am willing
to make changes that people want, I am not going to hold back the
theme due to some locales missing fanart/coverart/banners.

Thanks,

Thomas Mashos
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