Mailing List Archive

A new theme on the way...
Hi all,

Thought I would share with you all that I am working on a new theme
that I hope to have done for .23. I know a lot of you have been happy
with Graphite so far, but I have a lot of things about it I am unhappy
with, so I started to work on something new. A couple of caveats
before going further. 1) The theme is going to be released under a
fairly restrictive license that disallows copying or derivative works,
so I'm not anticipating this ever being distributed with Myth. 2) I'm
using proprietary fonts that I cannot/will not distribute. I will
provide links for where you can purchase the fonts (about $15) but
will leave it up to the user to procure them. The theme will not work
properly without them. I am paying very careful attention to text
spacing this time, and switching fonts will break that.

That said, the new theme is called Arclight. It takes a lot of the
lessons I learned about theming in Graphite, and applies them to
something where I didn't a) become lazy and half-ass some of the
widgets, b) emphasizes absolute consistency and usability, and c)
don't limit myself to ugly linux-standard fonts. I have really only
gotten as far as theming the basic widgets, about 2/3rds of MythVideo,
and a little bit of Watch Recordings so far, but it's enough to get a
sense of the overall style. So far, I am very, very happy with it and
I've already switched to using it full-time (which I have found is the
key to getting a theme done).

Arclight is a true 1920x1080 theme, and the added screen real estate
makes a huge difference in fitting lots of information on the screen
without ever feeling cramped. It's a real pleasure to theme at this
resolution so far, and I don't see myself going back. Arclight *will*
work on 720p displays (I'm developing it on one) but looks best at
native resolution. Arclight will not support 4:3 or standard def
displays, it is absolutely unreadable at such low resolution.

Here are some (large!) screenshots from the actual UI (no mockups):

http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/PBB.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/browse.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/detail.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/edit.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/menu.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/mv_tree.png
http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/search.png

Bear in mind that I'm only about 5-6 days in to working on it, but I'm
very satisfied so far and I'm finding myself having a lot of fun
theming it.

For you aspiring themers out there, I strongly encourage you to read
Stuart Morgan's plea for themers that went out earlier today. MythUI
is by no means a finished product, but it's a *great* time to start
work on a theme. If you're like me, it may be the second one before a
lot of things start to "click," but that's totally okay and it's fun
to be a part of something lots of people in the community use.

Looking forward to the reactions to this, and to getting it finished
over the coming months in time for .23.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
> Looking forward to the reactions to this, and to getting it finished
> over the coming months in time for .23.
>
> Robert
>

Holy smokes, that looks amazing! I really like the Video Options menu with
the light frame and play button as bullets, super snazzy. When you select a
video in the Browse, I'm guessing the background is a clipped display of the
poster? That's very neat if so. Overall the layout is fantastic, really well
done all-around!

Bob
Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Wed, Sep 9, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Bobby Gill<brownitus@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> Holy smokes, that looks amazing! I really like the Video Options menu with
> the light frame and play button as bullets, super snazzy. When you select a
> video in the Browse, I'm guessing the background is a clipped display of the
> poster? That's very neat if so. Overall the layout is fantastic, really well
> done all-around!
>


Thanks-- Technically if you select an item in browse mode, it plays.
The detail.png file is the "item detail" screen, if one chooses to
call that up.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 2:08 AM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Thought I would share with you all that I am working on a new theme
> that I hope to have done for .23.  I know a lot of you have been happy
> with Graphite so far, but I have a lot of things about it I am unhappy
> with, so I started to work on something new.
> . . .
> Looking forward to the reactions to this, and to getting it finished
> over the coming months in time for .23.
>
> Robert

Outstanding work Robert. Your Graphite theme is already the coolest
theme hands down. Arclight is going to blow Graphite away. I look
forward to following the progress of Arclight.
--
_____________
Ryan Patterson
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:08 AM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Thought I would share with you all that I am working on a new theme
> that I hope to have done for .23.  I know a lot of you have been happy
> with Graphite so far, but I have a lot of things about it I am unhappy
> with, so I started to work on something new.  A couple of caveats
> before going further.  1) The theme is going to be released under a
> fairly restrictive license that disallows copying or derivative works,
> so I'm not anticipating this ever being distributed with Myth.  2) I'm
> using proprietary fonts that I cannot/will not distribute.  I will
> provide links for where you can purchase the fonts (about $15) but
> will leave it up to the user to procure them.  The theme will not work
> properly without them.  I am paying very careful attention to text
> spacing this time, and switching fonts will break that.

I don't mind being the voice of dissent here. I might be able to
stomach a non-GPL license, but there's no way in hell I'm paying money
for a font when there must be at least half a million free fonts all
over the internet. If the restrictive license doesn't allow
modification (to find a suitable font replacement), then I'll just
have to look forward to public release of 0.22 when the "masses" get
their hands on MythUI. The incredible skinning work done by folks for
projects such as XBMC prove that it's just a mater of time before
people step up and provide something open to the community.
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
2009/9/10 Christopher Meredith <chmeredith@gmail.com>:
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:08 AM, Robert McNamara
> <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> Thought I would share with you all that I am working on a new theme
>> that I hope to have done for .23.  I know a lot of you have been happy
>> with Graphite so far, but I have a lot of things about it I am unhappy
>> with, so I started to work on something new.  A couple of caveats
>> before going further.  1) The theme is going to be released under a
>> fairly restrictive license that disallows copying or derivative works,
>> so I'm not anticipating this ever being distributed with Myth.  2) I'm
>> using proprietary fonts that I cannot/will not distribute.  I will
>> provide links for where you can purchase the fonts (about $15) but
>> will leave it up to the user to procure them.  The theme will not work
>> properly without them.  I am paying very careful attention to text
>> spacing this time, and switching fonts will break that.
>
> I don't mind being the voice of dissent here. I might be able to
> stomach a non-GPL license, but there's no way in hell I'm paying money
> for a font when there must be at least half a million free fonts all
> over the internet. If the restrictive license doesn't allow
> modification (to find a suitable font replacement), then I'll just
> have to look forward to public release of 0.22 when the "masses" get
> their hands on MythUI. The incredible skinning work done by folks for
> projects such as XBMC prove that it's just a mater of time before
> people step up and provide something open to the community.
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-theming mailing list
> mythtv-theming@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-theming
>

have to agree with Chris.. nothing against Robert as he's well in his
right to do whatever he wants with his themes but I'll be waiting for
a normal theme, or who knows, I may finally finish one of my own.
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Christopher
Meredith<chmeredith@gmail.com> wrote:
> The incredible skinning work done by folks for
> projects such as XBMC prove that it's just a mater of time before
> people step up and provide something open to the community.

Nobody is going to force you to use it. :)

You should probably know, however, that *every* acclaimed skin for
XBMC (Aeon, Aeon Stark, MediaStream, etc) uses proprietary fonts.
They either include them illegally (Mediastream, original Aeon) or
have you download them from illicit rapidshare links (Aeon Stark). So
in fact, those skins are *not* using any of the "half million free
fonts..." Because the truth is, the quality and especially the
kerning on most free fonts suck. So my options are leave it to the
user to procure decent fonts in a legit way, or distribute them
illegally...

... and that's not how I roll.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
2009/9/10 Roy Lofthouse <lofty69@gmail.com>:
> 2009/9/10 Christopher Meredith <chmeredith@gmail.com>:
>> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 1:08 AM, Robert McNamara
>> <robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> Thought I would share with you all that I am working on a new theme
>>> that I hope to have done for .23.  I know a lot of you have been happy
>>> with Graphite so far, but I have a lot of things about it I am unhappy
>>> with, so I started to work on something new.  A couple of caveats
>>> before going further.  1) The theme is going to be released under a
>>> fairly restrictive license that disallows copying or derivative works,
>>> so I'm not anticipating this ever being distributed with Myth.  2) I'm
>>> using proprietary fonts that I cannot/will not distribute.  I will
>>> provide links for where you can purchase the fonts (about $15) but
>>> will leave it up to the user to procure them.  The theme will not work
>>> properly without them.  I am paying very careful attention to text
>>> spacing this time, and switching fonts will break that.
>>
>> I don't mind being the voice of dissent here. I might be able to
>> stomach a non-GPL license, but there's no way in hell I'm paying money
>> for a font when there must be at least half a million free fonts all
>> over the internet. If the restrictive license doesn't allow
>> modification (to find a suitable font replacement), then I'll just
>> have to look forward to public release of 0.22 when the "masses" get
>> their hands on MythUI. The incredible skinning work done by folks for
>> projects such as XBMC prove that it's just a mater of time before
>> people step up and provide something open to the community.
>> _______________________________________________
>> mythtv-theming mailing list
>> mythtv-theming@mythtv.org
>> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-theming
>>
>
> have to agree with Chris.. nothing against Robert as he's well in his
> right to do whatever he wants with his themes but I'll be waiting for
> a normal theme, or who knows, I may finally finish one of my own.
>
but having said that... if this theme is the one for me... $15 is
nothing for a decent one :)
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Sep 10, 2009, at 7:28 AM, Robert McNamara wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Christopher
> Meredith<chmeredith@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The incredible skinning work done by folks for
>> projects such as XBMC prove that it's just a mater of time before
>> people step up and provide something open to the community.
>
> Nobody is going to force you to use it. :)
>
> You should probably know, however, that *every* acclaimed skin for
> XBMC (Aeon, Aeon Stark, MediaStream, etc) uses proprietary fonts.
> They either include them illegally (Mediastream, original Aeon) or
> have you download them from illicit rapidshare links (Aeon Stark). So
> in fact, those skins are *not* using any of the "half million free
> fonts..." Because the truth is, the quality and especially the
> kerning on most free fonts suck. So my options are leave it to the
> user to procure decent fonts in a legit way, or distribute them
> illegally...

I have to agree here. As a one-time typographer (in the early to
mid-90's), I never found any free fonts worth their bytes they
consumed. More recently (in the last several years), I've found
Bitstream Vera very pleasing and tend to use it as my go-to font when
a free one is required.
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
but having said that... if this theme is the one for me... $15 is
nothing for a decent one :)
_______________________________________________

Graphite is currently my theme of choice, but this one is going to top it.
I said to Robert a few months ago that I doubt anyone would be able to top
Graphite for a long while. Apparently, a long time is not so long anymore,
especially when the designer of the new one is the same as the old one. And
yes $15 is not going to deter me either.

Rob, once you purchase the fonts do I have rights to install on any machine
or just 1? For example, say I have 3 frontends I want to use them on, would
that be $15 or $45?

Marc

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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 9:28 AM, Robert McNamara
<robert.mcnamara@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 7:18 AM, Christopher
> Meredith<chmeredith@gmail.com> wrote:
>> The incredible skinning work done by folks for
>> projects such as XBMC prove that it's just a mater of time before
>> people step up and provide something open to the community.
>
> Nobody is going to force you to use it.  :)
>
> You should probably know, however, that *every* acclaimed skin for
> XBMC (Aeon, Aeon Stark, MediaStream, etc) uses proprietary fonts.
> They either include them illegally (Mediastream, original Aeon) or
> have you download them from illicit rapidshare links (Aeon Stark).  So
> in fact, those skins are *not* using any of the "half million free
> fonts..."  Because the truth is, the quality and especially the
> kerning on most free fonts suck.  So my options are leave it to the
> user to procure decent fonts in a legit way, or distribute them
> illegally...
>
> ... and that's not how I roll.

I have found the MgOpen fonts to be very good

http://www.zvr.gr/typo/mgopen/index
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 7:41 AM, MarcT<myrdhn@gmail.com> wrote:
> but having said that... if this theme is the one for me... $15 is
> nothing for a decent one :)
> _______________________________________________
>
> Graphite is currently my theme of choice, but this one is going to top it.
> I said to Robert a few months ago that I doubt anyone would be able to top
> Graphite for a long while. Apparently, a long time is not so long anymore,
> especially when the designer of the new one is the same as the old one. And
> yes $15 is not going to deter me either.
>
> Rob, once you purchase the fonts do I have rights to install on any machine
> or just 1? For example, say I have 3 frontends I want to use them on, would
> that be $15 or $45?
>
> Marc

Marc,

I'm not sure of the license terms, as I wouldn't be the one selling
the fonts-- currently Arclight only uses Frutiger Light, though if I
find a really compelling reason I might add a second. If I could do
what I wanted w/ free fonts, I would, but the quality just isn't
there. As I get closer to releasing, I'll find a few options for
procuring the font and let people make their own choices. I suspect
the licenses are "for personal use" rather than per-seat, so I think
you should be fine.

I hope people don't come away with the impression that choosing closed
fonts was a vindictive choice-- Frutiger was just the font that did
what I wanted to do, and did it most beautifully.

It's also worth noting that a *lot* of people already have a legally
obtained copy of Frutiger on a windows install.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Thu, Sep 10, 2009 at 7:51 AM, Christopher
Meredith<chmeredith@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have found the MgOpen fonts to be very good
>
> http://www.zvr.gr/typo/mgopen/index


Interesting. Not to my taste, but thank you for mentioning them
here-- hopefully they will help someone starting on their own themes.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
Robert McNamara wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Thought I would share with you all that I am working on a new theme
> that I hope to have done for .23. I know a lot of you have been happy
> with Graphite so far, but I have a lot of things about it I am unhappy
> with, so I started to work on something new. A couple of caveats
> before going further. 1) The theme is going to be released under a
> fairly restrictive license that disallows copying or derivative works,
> so I'm not anticipating this ever being distributed with Myth. 2) I'm
> using proprietary fonts that I cannot/will not distribute. I will
> provide links for where you can purchase the fonts (about $15) but
> will leave it up to the user to procure them. The theme will not work
> properly without them. I am paying very careful attention to text
> spacing this time, and switching fonts will break that.
>
> That said, the new theme is called Arclight. It takes a lot of the
> lessons I learned about theming in Graphite, and applies them to
> something where I didn't a) become lazy and half-ass some of the
> widgets, b) emphasizes absolute consistency and usability, and c)
> don't limit myself to ugly linux-standard fonts. I have really only
> gotten as far as theming the basic widgets, about 2/3rds of MythVideo,
> and a little bit of Watch Recordings so far, but it's enough to get a
> sense of the overall style. So far, I am very, very happy with it and
> I've already switched to using it full-time (which I have found is the
> key to getting a theme done).
>
> Arclight is a true 1920x1080 theme, and the added screen real estate
> makes a huge difference in fitting lots of information on the screen
> without ever feeling cramped. It's a real pleasure to theme at this
> resolution so far, and I don't see myself going back. Arclight *will*
> work on 720p displays (I'm developing it on one) but looks best at
> native resolution. Arclight will not support 4:3 or standard def
> displays, it is absolutely unreadable at such low resolution.
>
> Here are some (large!) screenshots from the actual UI (no mockups):
>
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/PBB.png
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/browse.png
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/detail.png
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/edit.png
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/menu.png
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/mv_tree.png
> http://www.fecitfacta.com/Arclight/search.png
>
> Bear in mind that I'm only about 5-6 days in to working on it, but I'm
> very satisfied so far and I'm finding myself having a lot of fun
> theming it.
>
> For you aspiring themers out there, I strongly encourage you to read
> Stuart Morgan's plea for themers that went out earlier today. MythUI
> is by no means a finished product, but it's a *great* time to start
> work on a theme. If you're like me, it may be the second one before a
> lot of things start to "click," but that's totally okay and it's fun
> to be a part of something lots of people in the community use.
>
> Looking forward to the reactions to this, and to getting it finished
> over the coming months in time for .23.
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-theming mailing list
> mythtv-theming@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-theming
>
>
great work on both of your themes, however Graphite theme did not
account for overscan on some displays such as DLP's. I hope you keep
that in mind when you work on Arclight.

Thanx
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Zdzislaw Gorlicki
<zdzisekg@comcast.net> wrote:

>
> great work on both of your themes, however Graphite theme did not account
> for overscan on some displays such as DLP's. I hope you keep that in mind
> when you work on Arclight.
>
> Thanx

That was intentional, Arclight will be the same-- None of my TVs use
overscan, so I prefer to use the whole space. Users of televisions
with overscan can use Myth's screen wizard to adjust the UI size to
fit.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
Robert McNamara wrote:
> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 10:11 PM, Zdzislaw Gorlicki
> <zdzisekg@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>> great work on both of your themes, however Graphite theme did not account
>> for overscan on some displays such as DLP's. I hope you keep that in mind
>> when you work on Arclight.
>>
>> Thanx
>>
>
> That was intentional, Arclight will be the same-- None of my TVs use
> overscan, so I prefer to use the whole space. Users of televisions
> with overscan can use Myth's screen wizard to adjust the UI size to
> fit.
>
> Robert
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-theming mailing list
> mythtv-theming@mythtv.org
> http://mythtv.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-theming
>
>
The overscan on these displays is intentional to eliminate noice etc. My
DLP allows me to resize the image as well, the problem is uneven edges,
image bending and such. Resizing just does not do the trick for these sets.
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 11:47 PM, Zdzislaw Gorlicki
<zdzisekg@comcast.net> wrote:
> The overscan on these displays is intentional to eliminate noice etc. My DLP
> allows me to resize the image as well, the problem is uneven edges, image
> bending and such. Resizing just does not do the trick for these sets.

I'm sorry, I'm just not interested in sacrificing 5-10% of the screen
to overscan when I have none on any of my displays. I understand the
limitations of your display, but the display arae is too valuable to
give up in my opinion. I'm afraid the only option will be to use the
screen wizard or to choose an alternate theme.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Monday 28 Sep 2009 07:47:07 Zdzislaw Gorlicki wrote:
> The overscan on these displays is intentional to eliminate noice etc. My
> DLP allows me to resize the image as well, the problem is uneven edges,
> image bending and such. Resizing just does not do the trick for these sets.

You can specify different sizes for video and the UI. I've never had to use
these before because I don't have a problem with overscan, but you should look
at using this feature.

With mythui we are dropping the advice to leave a 5-10% margin for overscan,
it's too hit and miss, many TVs and monitors behave themselves and don't
overscan, we've provided settings to compensate for those that do. In the
mean-time as Robert said leaving that margin clear is a significant waste of
screen real-estate and really limits the design possibilities. Terra would be
impossible with that constraint because one of the core motifs are the lists
which extend right to the edge of the screen.
--
Stuart Morgan
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
Robert,

You say that Arclight will need Frutiger 45 Light Standard.
Is that the same as Frutiger LT 45 Light.ttf?

MarcT

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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:39 PM, MarcT <myrdhn@gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> You say that Arclight will need Frutiger 45 Light Standard.
> Is that the same as Frutiger LT 45 Light.ttf?
>
> MarcT
>

Mark,

If, when installed, it identifies itself to programs as "Frutiger LT
Std," (gEdit->Edit->Preferences->Font and Colors, Editor Font) then
yes.

Robert
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Re: A new theme on the way... [ In reply to ]
On Mon, Oct 26, 2009 at 9:39 PM, MarcT <myrdhn@gmail.com> wrote:
> Robert,
>
> You say that Arclight will need Frutiger 45 Light Standard.
> Is that the same as Frutiger LT 45 Light.ttf?
>
> MarcT
>

Mark,

If, when installed, it identifies itself to programs as "Frutiger LT
Std," (gEdit->Edit->Preferences->Font and Colors, Editor Font) then
yes.

Robert
_______________________________________________

I found it on a Windows machine I have. Haven't loaded it into Linux yet.
Windows shows it as Frutiger LT 45 Light.
I did however just look for Frutiger LT Std on a web search and found it for
download in OpenType format on someones web page, thou it shows as Frutiger
LT Std 45 Light. They look identical, but the TrueType version I have seems
to be cleaner. The OpenType version has some fuzziness in the edges. Could
just be my eyes playing tricks.

Marc

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