Mailing List Archive

On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 09:44:43PM +0000, Mr. Adam ALLEN wrote:
> Discovered MythTV last night and very, very impressed.
> But I need to dedicate (and buy) some hardware for the system.
>
>
> I have two choices:
>
> 1) Buy a Via Eden board.
> Not sure about these cheap boards, ? 80 with 800Mhz chip on board,
> integrated video (with TVout), sound and LAN. Linux compatibility is the
> worst - so far through lots of searching google - asking here if anyone
> knows of show stoppers.

You might want to check the archives since this (and some other options for
a small dedicated machine have been discussed a bit very recently. IMHO the
Eden will not be fast enough.

> I've not found specific chipsets used. It's critical that the on-board
> stuff works because it only has one PCI slot for the capture card. It's
> advantage is that it's fanless- so won't keep me awake at night!
> Dedicated an Athlon with huge fan is too noisy!!

An Athlon doesn't have to be noisy but you could also look for a P3-Tutilane
(sp) or P4 based solution as well. A high end P3 would be easier to make
really quiet than an Athlon or P4 and still be much faster than a VIA
solution.


> http://www.viavpsd.com/products/epia_mini_itx_spec.jsp
>
> 2) Use my old AMD K6-3 450Mhz - but I'd need to find a new video card
> (cheap) with TV-out...
> What card is recommended?

If your existing card works fine but is missing TV-out you might want to get
a scan converter box instead.

--
Ray

Learn from my mistake: don't get a shoddy mobo, and make sure that you
CAN add a video capture card, sound card, and AGP video card if the
onboard stuff doesn't work. I went around in circles with a whole host of
problems before finally biting the bullet and buying a system that I knew
would work.

I'd say the biggest problem with most people is the sound--you really need
to be able to use ALSA sound. IMO, it's wise to get "popular"
sound/video/capture cards as those are usually the ones that have proper
drivers.

I worked for many hours trying to get a RedHat machine with onboard video
and sound to work. I finally said "screw it" and I downloaded Mandrake9
(has full ALSA support outta da box) and got a new machine with a
soundblaster and an Nvidia AGP card (with TV-out). It only took me a
couple hours to get that setup working :) It's really a trade off: spend
a little more money and spend a lot less of your own time, or skimp on
hardware and spend a boat-load of your time trying to get it to work.

I got a case that looks cool *and* is quite (my PlayStation2 is louder!).
You can get quite fans if you want to pay a couple bucks more...or you can
install fanless coolers yourself.

If you want a small quite machine, you may want to look at the new shuttle
mobo/cases.

Just my $.02

Jeremy


> Discovered MythTV last night and very, very impressed.
> But I need to dedicate (and buy) some hardware for the system.
>
>
> I have two choices:
>
> 1) Buy a Via Eden board.
> Not sure about these cheap boards, £ 80 with 800Mhz chip on board,
> integrated video (with TVout), sound and LAN. Linux compatibility is the
> worst - so far through lots of searching google - asking here if anyone
> knows of show stoppers.
> I've not found specific chipsets used. It's critical that the on-board
> stuff works because it only has one PCI slot for the capture card. It's
> advantage is that it's fanless- so won't keep me awake at night!
> Dedicated an Athlon with huge fan is too noisy!!
>
> http://www.viavpsd.com/products/epia_mini_itx_spec.jsp
>
> 2) Use my old AMD K6-3 450Mhz - but I'd need to find a new video card
> (cheap) with TV-out...
> What card is recommended?
>
>
> Thanks for a great piece of software - very, very impressed.
>
> --
> NAME : Adam Allen.
> EMAIL : adam@dynamicinteraction.co.uk
>
> COMMENT : ~~~~ insert your favourite signature comment here ~~~~
>
> PGP
> : http://search.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=adam%40dynamicinteraction.co.uk

I had horrible issues with fan noise on my machine...yea, you can get
quieter fans, but then theres the hard drive noise..EXPECIALLY if you're
talking about streaming the video to/from disk..What i did was simply
put my computer in my attic, and use an NTSC modulator for about $75 to
modulate it to a cable channel...the added benefit is that i can watch
it on ANY TV in my house! (i also have the s-video and line-out cables
running down through the wall for better quality..

the modulated NTSC signal is actually REAL nice and clean..i'd say it's
even better that hooking it up directly to your TV. This is because i
only need a very small rca connector to plug into the modulator..

hope this helps..

-Mark




On Mon, 2002-11-25 at 17:09, Jeremy Oddo wrote:
> Learn from my mistake: don't get a shoddy mobo, and make sure that you
> CAN add a video capture card, sound card, and AGP video card if the
> onboard stuff doesn't work. I went around in circles with a whole host of
> problems before finally biting the bullet and buying a system that I knew
> would work.
>
> I'd say the biggest problem with most people is the sound--you really need
> to be able to use ALSA sound. IMO, it's wise to get "popular"
> sound/video/capture cards as those are usually the ones that have proper
> drivers.
>
> I worked for many hours trying to get a RedHat machine with onboard video
> and sound to work. I finally said "screw it" and I downloaded Mandrake9
> (has full ALSA support outta da box) and got a new machine with a
> soundblaster and an Nvidia AGP card (with TV-out). It only took me a
> couple hours to get that setup working :) It's really a trade off: spend
> a little more money and spend a lot less of your own time, or skimp on
> hardware and spend a boat-load of your time trying to get it to work.
>
> I got a case that looks cool *and* is quite (my PlayStation2 is louder!).
> You can get quite fans if you want to pay a couple bucks more...or you can
> install fanless coolers yourself.
>
> If you want a small quite machine, you may want to look at the new shuttle
> mobo/cases.
>
> Just my $.02
>
> Jeremy
>
>
> > Discovered MythTV last night and very, very impressed.
> > But I need to dedicate (and buy) some hardware for the system.
> >
> >
> > I have two choices:
> >
> > 1) Buy a Via Eden board.
> > Not sure about these cheap boards, £ 80 with 800Mhz chip on board,
> > integrated video (with TVout), sound and LAN. Linux compatibility is the
> > worst - so far through lots of searching google - asking here if anyone
> > knows of show stoppers.
> > I've not found specific chipsets used. It's critical that the on-board
> > stuff works because it only has one PCI slot for the capture card. It's
> > advantage is that it's fanless- so won't keep me awake at night!
> > Dedicated an Athlon with huge fan is too noisy!!
> >
> > http://www.viavpsd.com/products/epia_mini_itx_spec.jsp
> >
> > 2) Use my old AMD K6-3 450Mhz - but I'd need to find a new video card
> > (cheap) with TV-out...
> > What card is recommended?
> >
> >
> > Thanks for a great piece of software - very, very impressed.
> >
> > --
> > NAME : Adam Allen.
> > EMAIL : adam@dynamicinteraction.co.uk
> >
> > COMMENT : ~~~~ insert your favourite signature comment here ~~~~
> >
> > PGP
> > : http://search.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=adam%40dynamicinteraction.co.uk
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-dev mailing list
> mythtv-dev@snowman.net
> http://www.snowman.net/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-dev
>

On Monday 25 November 2002 23.09, Jeremy Oddo wrote:

> I'd say the biggest problem with most people is the sound--you really need
> to be able to use ALSA sound. IMO, it's wise to get "popular"
> sound/video/capture cards as those are usually the ones that have proper
> drivers.

No offence but I find ALSA to be a major PITA. I'm using a soundblaster live
card with OSS. Simple and it works. You make need to tell kde to use OSS
and not auto detect sound.

I would really love to get my SMP athlon quiet. I have tried various fans for
the few extra bucks, different cpu coolers and PSUs. You can make them
liveable with but not sleepable. I've also been thinking about a low noise
solution just for this and ínstall something to make the output streaming or
just use a remote xterm.

Tony

my 1Kr worth :)
--
Contract ASIC and FPGA design.
Telephone
+46 702 894 667

On 25 Nov 2002 at 14:59, Ray wrote:

> You might want to check the archives since this (and some other options for a
> small dedicated machine have been discussed a bit very recently. IMHO the
> Eden will not be fast enough.

Even if it was 3x the speed it still wouldn't be fast enough as it's fpu
capabilites are much lower than needed for (de)compression. That unit is
based on IIRC a combination of the former cyrix cpu's and the c6 cpu's,
neither of which is known for it's fpu capabilty.

The only way I could suggest one of these units is if you had a hardware
encoding tv card. There is _some_ support for hardware mjpeg in cvs.....

> An Athlon doesn't have to be noisy but you could also look for a P3-Tutilane
Yes it does, even the quietest fans are still quite noisy. You'd probably
need to look at some other solution like a pelltier or a liquid cooling unit,
either that, or one REALLY BIG ASS heatsink.... Doubt you could find a case
to fit that into though ;-)

> (sp) or P4 based solution as well. A high end P3 would be easier to make
> really quiet than an Athlon or P4 and still be much faster than a VIA
> solution.
Agreed.

--
Harondel J. Sibble
Sibble Computer Consulting
Creating solutions for the small business and home computer user.
help@pdscc.com (use pgp keyid 0x3AD5C11D) http://www.pdscc.com
(604) 739-3709 (voice/fax) (604) 686-2253 (pager)

On Mon, 2002-11-25 at 23:26, Tony Clark wrote:
> On Monday 25 November 2002 23.09, Jeremy Oddo wrote:
>
> > I'd say the biggest problem with most people is the sound--you really need
> > to be able to use ALSA sound. IMO, it's wise to get "popular"
> > sound/video/capture cards as those are usually the ones that have proper
> > drivers.
>
> No offence but I find ALSA to be a major PITA. I'm using a soundblaster live
> card with OSS. Simple and it works. You make need to tell kde to use OSS
> and not auto detect sound.
>
> I would really love to get my SMP athlon quiet. I have tried various fans for
> the few extra bucks, different cpu coolers and PSUs. You can make them
> liveable with but not sleepable. I've also been thinking about a low noise
> solution just for this and ínstall something to make the output streaming or
> just use a remote xterm.


My linux router is under my bed, and the replacement drive is too loud
(it's a 166Mhz before CPU's and PSU's needed fans). I'm of the opinion
now that the constant unchanging noise from the CPU fan is better than
the hard-drive writing data on/off.

It'd be nice to encode on my big box (Athlon 1Ghz + 384Mb RAM), and then
do the decoding on the AMD 450, could cope with leaving on 25/7.
Although that doesn't exist yet does it. (Sometimes I wish my
programming were better). It'd be nice to export the spool file to the
"decoding" box, which simply does the frontend tasks - and using
client/server to start/stop the encoding on the "encoder".

The other option- not found details of if this available yet; would be
nice to put a new video card (w/tv-out) into the existing box, and have
the mythtv projected onto the second display. I've not looked into
multi-headed displays with Linux yet, and don't know if this can be done
within Linux with some redirection trickery.

After reading the archives (can't quite understand why I didn't do that
before the initial post!) - I've decided against the VIA on board
integrated thing. I've been interested in Transmeta - but not dived into
this enough, or found where to source board/processor in single qty's
over in the UK.


Regards,
Adam

EMAIL : adam@dynamicinteraction.co.uk

COMMENT : ~~~~ insert your favourite signature comment here ~~~~

PGP : http://search.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=adam%40dynamicinteraction.co.uk

On 25 Nov 2002, Mr. Adam ALLEN wrote:

> On Mon, 2002-11-25 at 23:26, Tony Clark wrote:
> > On Monday 25 November 2002 23.09, Jeremy Oddo wrote:
> >
> > > I'd say the biggest problem with most people is the sound--you really need
> > > to be able to use ALSA sound. IMO, it's wise to get "popular"
> > > sound/video/capture cards as those are usually the ones that have proper
> > > drivers.
> >
> > No offence but I find ALSA to be a major PITA. I'm using a soundblaster live
> > card with OSS. Simple and it works. You make need to tell kde to use OSS
> > and not auto detect sound.
> >
> > I would really love to get my SMP athlon quiet. I have tried various fans for
> > the few extra bucks, different cpu coolers and PSUs. You can make them
> > liveable with but not sleepable. I've also been thinking about a low noise
> > solution just for this and ínstall something to make the output streaming or
> > just use a remote xterm.
>
>
> My linux router is under my bed, and the replacement drive is too loud
> (it's a 166Mhz before CPU's and PSU's needed fans). I'm of the opinion
> now that the constant unchanging noise from the CPU fan is better than
> the hard-drive writing data on/off.
>
> It'd be nice to encode on my big box (Athlon 1Ghz + 384Mb RAM), and then
> do the decoding on the AMD 450, could cope with leaving on 25/7.
> Although that doesn't exist yet does it. (Sometimes I wish my
> programming were better). It'd be nice to export the spool file to the
> "decoding" box, which simply does the frontend tasks - and using
> client/server to start/stop the encoding on the "encoder".
>
> The other option- not found details of if this available yet; would be
> nice to put a new video card (w/tv-out) into the existing box, and have
> the mythtv projected onto the second display. I've not looked into
> multi-headed displays with Linux yet, and don't know if this can be done
> within Linux with some redirection trickery.

I have setup my computer so that mythtv runs in it's own X session.
Basically, I do "xinit /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm2 -- :1 -screen TV" and then run
"mythfrontend" when the xsession comes up. "TV" is a custom-defined
"screen" in my XF86Config:

Section "Screen"
Identifier "TV"
Device "NVIDIA GeForce 2 GTS (generic)"
Monitor "ViewSonic PS"
DefaultDepth 24
Subsection "Display"
Depth 24
Modes "800x600"
EndSubSection
EndSection

I can then switch between my normal X session and my MythTV xsession with
the "Ctrl+Alt+F7" and "Ctrl+Alt+F8" sequences. I'm working on mapping
hotkeys to run scripts to enable/disable TV out since the NVidia card I
have has problems when I switch X sessions with the TVout enabled.

- Christoph

> After reading the archives (can't quite understand why I didn't do that
> before the initial post!) - I've decided against the VIA on board
> integrated thing. I've been interested in Transmeta - but not dived into
> this enough, or found where to source board/processor in single qty's
> over in the UK.
>
>
> Regards,
> Adam
>
> EMAIL : adam@dynamicinteraction.co.uk
>
> COMMENT : ~~~~ insert your favourite signature comment here ~~~~
>
> PGP : http://search.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=adam%40dynamicinteraction.co.uk
>
>

On Mon, Nov 25, 2002 at 03:40:11PM -0800, Harondel J. Sibble wrote:
>
>
> On 25 Nov 2002 at 14:59, Ray wrote:
>
> > An Athlon doesn't have to be noisy but you could also look for a P3-Tutilane
> Yes it does, even the quietest fans are still quite noisy.

No really, I've been using big heatsinks (often Alpha 8045T) along with very
slow spinning 80mm fans for a while now with VERY good results. The PEP66
can also be a good solution if you can find good temp controlled 60mm fans
(or make your own controller). Admittedly this solution does require
choosing your motherboard and case more carefully and sometimes requires
some time with the dremmel tool but the result is a very quiet cpu cooler.

> You'd probably need to look at some other solution like a pelltier or a
> liquid cooling unit, either that, or one REALLY BIG ASS heatsink....

Peltiers and liquid cooling tend to make noise issues worse rather than
better unless they are VERY carefully thought out.


> Doubt you could find a case to fit that into though ;-)

One of these years I'll try using a heat pipe to connect to a BAH or RBAH
mounted on the case. I actually have a few heat pipes around here somewhere
but I'm concerned that they'll break when I attempt to bend them.

--
Ray

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

> I got a case that looks cool *and* is quite (my PlayStation2
> is louder!).

What's the case?

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Hi,

> > I got a case that looks cool *and* is quite (my PlayStation2
> > is louder!).
>
> What's the case?

If anyone is interested in cases, I got a coolermaster atc-610:

http://www.coolermaster.com/case/p610.htm

which is a bit pricey, but is very quiet (can't hear it at all), and most
importantly, looks like av equipment.

A close runner up for me was the dign case which you can see pictures of here:

http://www.moddin.net/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=171

(also nice at it is a full atx case, the coolermaster requires a micro-atx
board). I went with coolermaster as I had a hard time finding the DIGN in
Canada.

Cheers,

Alex
--
Alex Krohn

On Monday 25 November 2002 16:23, Christoph Neumann spake thus:
>
> I have setup my computer so that mythtv runs in it's own X session.
> Basically, I do "xinit /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm2 -- :1 -screen TV" and then
> run "mythfrontend" when the xsession comes up. "TV" is a custom-defined
> "screen" in my XF86Config:
>
> Section "Screen"
> Identifier "TV"
> Device "NVIDIA GeForce 2 GTS (generic)"
> Monitor "ViewSonic PS"
> DefaultDepth 24
> Subsection "Display"
> Depth 24
> Modes "800x600"
> EndSubSection
> EndSection
>
> I can then switch between my normal X session and my MythTV xsession with
> the "Ctrl+Alt+F7" and "Ctrl+Alt+F8" sequences. I'm working on mapping
> hotkeys to run scripts to enable/disable TV out since the NVidia card I
> have has problems when I switch X sessions with the TVout enabled.
>
> - Christoph

Since this could well be useful for various other people, I'm doing a
similar thing after reading and implementing the XF86Config part of
Christoph's setup. I'm using a small startup script, called mythstartup,
which looks like this:

---- Begin script ----
#!/bin/sh
/usr/X11R6/bin/twm &
/usr/local/bin/mythfrontend # this never returns
---- End script ----

In combination with a $HOME/.twmrc which has the following salient features:

---- Begin .twmrc fragment ----
NoTitle
UsePPosition "on"
RandomPlacement
NoGrabServer
ClientBorderWidth
FramePadding 0
---- End .twmrc fragment ----

Then I start it with:

xinit /home/mythtv/mythstartup -- :1 -screen TV

This gives me a dedicated MythTV session that's always running. The box is
only a 1GHz P3, and my wife uses it, so I have to be careful about the
encoding resolution and codec/options that I use, but it works fine for the
moment.

I did try starting mythfrontend on its own, without a window manager, but I
found that there were problems with keyboard focus getting lost, either
after changing the theme or watching live TV -- couldn't change channels,
pause, or even stop viewing. Thankfully Ctrl-Alt-Backspace works well :)

BTW, the machine it's running on has *no* hard drive. It has a root
filesystem on NFS, and automounts the /media/video filesystem as necessary.
Works just dandy over a switched 100Mbit network. This goes a long way to
making the machine silent. Case and CPU fans are all there is, and though
I'd love to get rid of them both, it's one of the little Shuttle PCs and so
there isn't space for large heatsinks or big, slow fans. Oh, 768MB RAM
doesn't hurt either ;)

-- C.

> My linux router is under my bed, and the replacement drive is too loud
> (it's a 166Mhz before CPU's and PSU's needed fans). I'm of the opinion
> now that the constant unchanging noise from the CPU fan is better than
> the hard-drive writing data on/off.
>
> It'd be nice to encode on my big box (Athlon 1Ghz + 384Mb RAM), and then
> do the decoding on the AMD 450, could cope with leaving on 25/7.
> Although that doesn't exist yet does it. (Sometimes I wish my
> programming were better). It'd be nice to export the spool file to the
> "decoding" box, which simply does the frontend tasks - and using
> client/server to start/stop the encoding on the "encoder".
>
Easy easy enough run the everything but frontend on the encoder box and
frontend only on
the display box. Mount the video in the same place (/mnt/video) with the
video being
on nfs for the display box. I would like to have a couple of display boxes
with one centeral machine for storage/encoding.

> The other option- not found details of if this available yet; would be
> nice to put a new video card (w/tv-out) into the existing box, and have
> the mythtv projected onto the second display. I've not looked into
> multi-headed displays with Linux yet, and don't know if this can be done
> within Linux with some redirection trickery.

On Tue, 2002-11-26 at 18:08, Michael Proctor-Smith wrote:
> > My linux router is under my bed, and the replacement drive is too loud
> > (it's a 166Mhz before CPU's and PSU's needed fans). I'm of the opinion
> > now that the constant unchanging noise from the CPU fan is better than
> > the hard-drive writing data on/off.
> >
> > It'd be nice to encode on my big box (Athlon 1Ghz + 384Mb RAM), and then
> > do the decoding on the AMD 450, could cope with leaving on 25/7.
> > Although that doesn't exist yet does it. (Sometimes I wish my
> > programming were better). It'd be nice to export the spool file to the
> > "decoding" box, which simply does the frontend tasks - and using
> > client/server to start/stop the encoding on the "encoder".
> >
> Easy easy enough run the everything but frontend on the encoder box and
> frontend only on
> the display box. Mount the video in the same place (/mnt/video) with the
> video being
> on nfs for the display box. I would like to have a couple of display boxes
> with one centeral machine for storage/encoding.

I'm ok with the nfs exporting/mounting, what I don't understand is how
to separate the two tasks out with mythtv.

--
NAME : Adam Allen.
EMAIL : adam@dynamicinteraction.co.uk

COMMENT : ~~~~ insert your favourite signature comment here ~~~~

PGP : http://search.keyserver.net:11371/pks/lookup?op=vindex&search=adam%40dynamicinteraction.co.uk

On Mon, 25 Nov 2002, Colin Panisset wrote:

> On Monday 25 November 2002 16:23, Christoph Neumann spake thus:
> >
> > I have setup my computer so that mythtv runs in it's own X session.
> > Basically, I do "xinit /usr/X11R6/bin/fvwm2 -- :1 -screen TV" and then
> > run "mythfrontend" when the xsession comes up. "TV" is a custom-defined
> > "screen" in my XF86Config:
> >
> > Section "Screen"
> > Identifier "TV"
> > Device "NVIDIA GeForce 2 GTS (generic)"
> > Monitor "ViewSonic PS"
> > DefaultDepth 24
> > Subsection "Display"
> > Depth 24
> > Modes "800x600"
> > EndSubSection
> > EndSection
> >
> > I can then switch between my normal X session and my MythTV xsession with
> > the "Ctrl+Alt+F7" and "Ctrl+Alt+F8" sequences. I'm working on mapping
> > hotkeys to run scripts to enable/disable TV out since the NVidia card I
> > have has problems when I switch X sessions with the TVout enabled.
> >
> > - Christoph
>
> Since this could well be useful for various other people, I'm doing a
> similar thing after reading and implementing the XF86Config part of
> Christoph's setup. I'm using a small startup script, called mythstartup,
> which looks like this:
>
> ---- Begin script ----
> #!/bin/sh
> /usr/X11R6/bin/twm &
> /usr/local/bin/mythfrontend # this never returns
> ---- End script ----
>
> In combination with a $HOME/.twmrc which has the following salient features:
>
> ---- Begin .twmrc fragment ----
> NoTitle
> UsePPosition "on"
> RandomPlacement
> NoGrabServer
> ClientBorderWidth
> FramePadding 0
> ---- End .twmrc fragment ----
>
> Then I start it with:
>
> xinit /home/mythtv/mythstartup -- :1 -screen TV
>
> This gives me a dedicated MythTV session that's always running. The box is
> only a 1GHz P3, and my wife uses it, so I have to be careful about the
> encoding resolution and codec/options that I use, but it works fine for the
> moment.
>
> I did try starting mythfrontend on its own, without a window manager, but I
> found that there were problems with keyboard focus getting lost, either
> after changing the theme or watching live TV -- couldn't change channels,
> pause, or even stop viewing. Thankfully Ctrl-Alt-Backspace works well :)

Yeah. I tried to do this without the window manager and had trouble too.
That's why I chose twm2 since it has low overhead. The key bindings are
fine until you go into TV mode. I think it's because the TV view is a
separate window that gets put in front of the interface window. Since
there is no window manager to automatically focus the new window, all the
key bindings stop working.

> BTW, the machine it's running on has *no* hard drive. It has a root
> filesystem on NFS, and automounts the /media/video filesystem as necessary.
> Works just dandy over a switched 100Mbit network. This goes a long way to
> making the machine silent. Case and CPU fans are all there is, and though
> I'd love to get rid of them both, it's one of the little Shuttle PCs and so
> there isn't space for large heatsinks or big, slow fans. Oh, 768MB RAM
> doesn't hurt either ;)
>
> -- C.
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> mythtv-dev mailing list
> mythtv-dev@snowman.net
> http://www.snowman.net/mailman/listinfo/mythtv-dev
>
>