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Hi,

I propose that since most devs are asking others to vote for them
we remove the whole testing requirement and make promoting to extras-testing something that's at the will of the developer.

--
Sent from my Nokia N950
Regards,
Mohammad Abu-Garbeyyeh


On 12/12/11 05:47 PM Neal H. Walfield wrote:

Hi,

I'm afraid that extras is dying due to a lack of interest in testing
packages.

Last month, I uploaded some Woodchuck-related packages to
extras-devel. I asked on #maemo a few times for people to test my
packages. I asked on this mailing list. And, I asked on
talk.maemo.org. In the end, most of the testers were people who I
know personally and asked to do me a favor and vote for my package. I
doubt that they actually tested it. This is a waste of time: it
doesn't improve the quality of packages and my time could be better
spent working on my package.

There is one person who appears to test packages: Harald Schmidt. He
has been designated a tester and appears to periodically check
extras-testing for new packages.

Given this, I propose that we use the following criteria for promoting
to extras:

- 10 days incubation (unchanged)
- maintainer + 1 designated "testers" (e.g., Harald Schmidt) thumbs up
or maintainer + 3 non-testers

Thoughts?

Neal

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Hi Neal,

Thank you for taking the time to post this and to make a proposal. In my
opinion, the testing of packages is an essential function of the community
and we should come up with a solution that accounts for the lesser volume
of active participants in maemo these days.

FWIW, the council (of which I am a member) suggested the idea of a limited
number of "supertesters" to Nemein awhile ago. The approval of a single
supertester would, in the absence of any disapproval, be sufficient for
promotion. IMHO, there should be an open call for individuals to volunteer
as supertesters but first crowdsource the qualifications so that we have an
objective measure by which to select from the volunteers.

Rob Bauer (SD69)

On Mon, Dec 12, 2011 at 10:47 AM, Neal H. Walfield <neal@walfield.org>wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I'm afraid that extras is dying due to a lack of interest in testing
> packages.
>
> Last month, I uploaded some Woodchuck-related packages to
> extras-devel. I asked on #maemo a few times for people to test my
> packages. I asked on this mailing list. And, I asked on
> talk.maemo.org. In the end, most of the testers were people who I
> know personally and asked to do me a favor and vote for my package. I
> doubt that they actually tested it. This is a waste of time: it
> doesn't improve the quality of packages and my time could be better
> spent working on my package.
>
> There is one person who appears to test packages: Harald Schmidt. He
> has been designated a tester and appears to periodically check
> extras-testing for new packages.
>
> Given this, I propose that we use the following criteria for promoting
> to extras:
>
> - 10 days incubation (unchanged)
> - maintainer + 1 designated "testers" (e.g., Harald Schmidt) thumbs up
> or maintainer + 3 non-testers
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Neal
>
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>

Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I'm happy to learn that there is
already infrastructure for differentiating super-testers from normal
tesers. I think promoting orphaned packages is a different discussion
and I think this should be decided seperately.

My new proposal is:

- quarantine for 10 days, promote after: 1 tester + 1 super-tester approve
- quarantine for 10 days, promote after: 3 testers approve

Thanks,

Neal
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Em 13-12-2011 11:00, Neal H. Walfield escreveu:
> Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I'm happy to learn that there is
> already infrastructure for differentiating super-testers from normal
> tesers. I think promoting orphaned packages is a different discussion
> and I think this should be decided seperately.
>
> My new proposal is:
>
> - quarantine for 10 days, promote after: 1 tester + 1 super-tester approve
> - quarantine for 10 days, promote after: 3 testers approve
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neal

I second this suggestion. Maybe with one modification : 1
super-tester should be enough.
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> On 12/12/2011 08:19 PM, emme750 at gmail.com wrote:
>> You should also solve the problem of those applications that are ready to be promoted, but the maintainer is no longer "alive".
>> For example, after one month of the release, the promotion may become automatic, or we should enable Supertester to do this.
>>
>
> This have been talked about, but stopped at a question - do you really
> want orphaned packages published in Extras ? If a problem surfaces or a
> bug gets reported, there is nobody to take care of it, and removal can
> get really tricky (who gets final say as how broken it has to be to ask
> Niels to remove it, what if there are other packages depending on the
> orphaned one, etc).
>
>
> Best regards,
> Attila Csipa

My opinion : if the orphaned package is in extras-testing for a long
time (1 month or more) and has a lot of positive votes (12, 2x the 6
needed to promotion), then it is reasonable that it is stable and well
tested. So it should be promoted to extras by some Maemo admin member.

Best regards,

Roberto Colistete Jr.

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On 14-Dec-11 03:00, Roberto Colistete Jr. wrote:
>> This have been talked about, but stopped at a question - do you really
>> want orphaned packages published in Extras ? If a problem surfaces or a
>> bug gets reported, there is nobody to take care of it, and removal can
>> get really tricky (who gets final say as how broken it has to be to ask
>> Niels to remove it, what if there are other packages depending on the
>> orphaned one, etc).
>
> My opinion : if the orphaned package is in extras-testing for a long
> time (1 month or more) and has a lot of positive votes (12, 2x the 6
> needed to promotion), then it is reasonable that it is stable and well
> tested. So it should be promoted to extras by some Maemo admin member.

Two problems:

1. The apps might have been tested on older versions of dependencies,
which have been superseeded in the meantime. For example I have
deprecated QtMobility 1.1, so it doesn't matter how well tested it was,
that version of mobility is no longer available. Ditto for, say, things
that depend on the kernel - it might work on one (old) version of the
power kernel, but not another, etc.

2. It's not about promoting, it's about dealing with it when it's
already in Extras and it goes wrong (and things do go wrong). If it's an
orphaned package, there is a lack final authority who can (from a
technical perspective) say what should be done, should it be a known
issue, should it be removed, can someone take over, etc, etc. This is
already a problem in Extras, it's just not too widespread (partially
because the orphaned packages that could cause problem are stuck in
testing) so we are in practice ignoring it.

Best regards,
Attila Csipa
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2011/12/14 Attila Csipa <maemo@csipa.in.rs>

> On 14-Dec-11 03:00, Roberto Colistete Jr. wrote:
>
>> This have been talked about, but stopped at a question - do you really
>>> want orphaned packages published in Extras ? If a problem surfaces or a
>>> bug gets reported, there is nobody to take care of it, and removal can
>>> get really tricky (who gets final say as how broken it has to be to ask
>>> Niels to remove it, what if there are other packages depending on the
>>> orphaned one, etc).
>>>
>>
>> My opinion : if the orphaned package is in extras-testing for a long
>> time (1 month or more) and has a lot of positive votes (12, 2x the 6
>> needed to promotion), then it is reasonable that it is stable and well
>> tested. So it should be promoted to extras by some Maemo admin member.
>>
>
> Two problems:
>
> 1. The apps might have been tested on older versions of dependencies,
> which have been superseeded in the meantime. For example I have deprecated
> QtMobility 1.1, so it doesn't matter how well tested it was, that version
> of mobility is no longer available. Ditto for, say, things that depend on
> the kernel - it might work on one (old) version of the power kernel, but
> not another, etc.
>
> 2. It's not about promoting, it's about dealing with it when it's already
> in Extras and it goes wrong (and things do go wrong). If it's an orphaned
> package, there is a lack final authority who can (from a technical
> perspective) say what should be done, should it be a known issue, should it
> be removed, can someone take over, etc, etc. This is already a problem in
> Extras, it's just not too widespread (partially because the orphaned
> packages that could cause problem are stuck in testing) so we are in
> practice ignoring it.
>
> Best regards,
> Attila Csipa
>
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>


Is it possible to transfer the maintainance for orphaned packages to other,
still active, developers?
If so, I would volunteer myself for maintainance of some orphaned packages.

Nicolai

Hi Nicolai,

> Is it possible to transfer the maintainance for orphaned packages to other,
> still active, developers?
> If so, I would volunteer myself for maintainance of some orphaned packages.

If you look at the package's page (e.g.,
http://maemo.org/packages/view/feedingit/), there is a "Request to be
maintainer of this package" button.

Neal
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2011/12/14 Neal H. Walfield <neal@walfield.org>

> Hi Nicolai,
>
> > Is it possible to transfer the maintainance for orphaned packages to
> other,
> > still active, developers?
> > If so, I would volunteer myself for maintainance of some orphaned
> packages.
>
> If you look at the package's page (e.g.,
> http://maemo.org/packages/view/feedingit/), there is a "Request to be
> maintainer of this package" button.
>
> Neal
>

Yes, but who decides to transfer the maintainance? Can this only be done by
the current
maintainer?
I doubt most maintainers of orphaned packages are listening to this
request.

At Wed, 14 Dec 2011 13:32:47 +0100,
Nicolai Hess wrote:
> Yes, but who decides to transfer the maintainance? Can this only be done by
> the current
> maintainer?
> I doubt most maintainers of orphaned packages are listening to this
> request.

As I understand it, the maintainer gets an email. If they ignore it
for, say, a week, I bet you could ask Niels Breet to authorize the
request.

Neal

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Hi,

There has been support for and no objections to the below proposal.
How do we go about implementing this?

Thanks,

Neal

At Tue, 13 Dec 2011 14:00:54 +0100,
Neal H. Walfield wrote:
>
> Thanks to everyone for the feedback. I'm happy to learn that there is
> already infrastructure for differentiating super-testers from normal
> tesers. I think promoting orphaned packages is a different discussion
> and I think this should be decided seperately.
>
> My new proposal is:
>
> - quarantine for 10 days, promote after: 1 tester + 1 super-tester approve
> - quarantine for 10 days, promote after: 3 testers approve
>
> Thanks,
>
> Neal
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-developers mailing list
> maemo-developers@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-developers
>
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