Mailing List Archive

I dont think that its necessary to push Joerg out, I am not even sure if
that is possible with the current regulations, I believe not.
But I have read more than once doc stating he is leaving Maemo completely,
and I read those statements as a step-down.

As for Council, eV structure.

The normal way an eV works, is that the eV board is the responsible for the
eV and everything concerning members, rules, regulations, competions et al.
There is no 'council', other that the assembly, which basically consists of
all (active) members, who can use their votes to for example reject
proposals from the eV board.
That, in other terms, means that the members are the 'council'.
However, eV board is responsible for any actions, legally - tax reporting
and all. So the eV board can of course not carry out actions from the
members that would be illegal, or against constitution of the eV.

That doesnt mean we can not have two entities, but practically, it would
make much of a difference.

/Niel

On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 7:29 AM, juice <juice@swagman.org> wrote:

> Woody14619 kirjoitti 2014-09-22 22:40:
>
>>
>> Again, I advocate for the complete separation of the two. Council is
>> Council
>> and does it's thing, making requests of the e.V., with no direct control
>> or
>> influence. The GA/e.V. are separate and own/operate m.o on the
>> communities
>> behalf, once taking that responsibility from HiFo. Simple, clean,
>> requires no
>> referendums, and keeps Council political crap out of e.V.
>>
>>
> I think this nicely sums out the situation.
>
> I have been thinking of this as we decided to have the referendum that'd
> clear out the council election problem, but maybe we have been trying to go
> at it from the wrong angle. I wanted to have the Maemo Council as a real
> ruling body, but it looks like it is not necessary as we already have Maemo
> e.V. as the successor of Hildon Foundation to take care of that.
> If council is to have the same role it had when Nokia was still the
> supreme acting agent in all things Maemo, we really need to change nothing.
>
> The only hindurance I see here is organizational complexity; we now have 2
> different entities, Maemo e.V. and Maemo Council, both having to hold
> separate elections by different electorate by their rulings.
>
> Additionally the members of the Maemo Council may be frustrated by the
> fact that the councillors have no real power except as to advice/request
> actions of Maemo e.V.
>
> - Juice -
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> maemo-community mailing list
> maemo-community@maemo.org
> https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-community
>

On Tue Sep 23 07:29:55 2014 juice <juice@swagman.org> wrote:
> I think this nicely sums out the situation.
>
> I have been thinking of this as we decided to have the referendum that'd
> clear out the council election problem, but maybe we have been trying to
> go at it from the wrong angle. I wanted to have the Maemo Council as a
> real ruling body, but it looks like it is not necessary as we already
> have Maemo e.V. as the successor of Hildon Foundation to take care of
> that.
> If council is to have the same role it had when Nokia was still the
> supreme acting agent in all things Maemo, we really need to change
> nothing.
>
> The only hindurance I see here is organizational complexity; we now have
> 2 different entities, Maemo e.V. and Maemo Council, both having to hold
> separate elections by different electorate by their rulings.
>
> Additionally the members of the  Maemo Council may be frustrated by the
> fact that the councillors have no real power except as to advice/request
> actions of Maemo e.V.
>
>      - Juice -

I Council gets frustrated by the "no real power" thing, there is easy solution - stepping down, and either get replaced by other volounteers, or disbanding Council alltogether.

I see Council exactly as this - volounteers, with no legal responsibility but no deciding power, either - bunch of people that gathers opinions and requests from Community, and forward those points to Board. Kind of community relations volounteers, as Board members may not have time to read every thing and could, otherwise, miss some important things.

If such scheme won't work, no problem - Board or General Assembly can vote on disbanding it and Council can go away. In such case, no one is going to miss it, really.

I hope that this separation of power (Board as legal force, Council as volounteers, just like other non-pad non-legal-binding positions, with only difference of being voted for) will be clearly stated in referendum, and no further Councilor gets any illusion of having blocking power/deciding power.

As for our little problem with spoiled kid joerg - I don't see any need to further worry about him, taking him "out", or whatever. He did everything he could to separate himself, and it is it - just outvote him where required, and ignore everywhere else. Maemo will move forward, and no one is going to ask any self-imposed authority for permission.

The only thing that may need attention, is fact that joerg is, surely, going to sprwad lies and propaganda in his troll's cave (maemo's irc channel), and there (quite a bunch, actually) active Maemo community members that clearly spent too much time on IRC (and none anywhere else), thus getting totally brain-washed by hearing one side of the story, over and over. Personally, I wouldn't like to see those people altering referendum results (considering hwo many votes we can expect, it's possible), so I advise delivering Board's rationale there, too.

Eagerly waiting for referendum.

/Estel