Mailing List Archive

Suggestions for managing HA of containers from within a Pacemaker container?
Hi,

I am working on Containerizing OpenStack in the Kolla project (http://launchpad.net/kolla). One of the key things we want to do over the next few months is add H/A support to our container tech. David Vossel had suggested using systemctl to monitor the containers themselves by running healthchecking scripts within the containers. That idea is sound.

There is another technology called “super-privileged containers”. Essentially it allows more host access for the container, allowing the treatment of Pacemaker as a container rather than a RPM or DEB file. I’d like corosync to run in a separate container. These containers will communicate using their normal mechanisms in a super-privileged mode. We will implement this in Kolla.

Where I am stuck is how does Pacemaker within a container control other containers in the host os. One way I have considered is using the docker —pid=host flag, allowing pacemaker to communicate directly with the host systemctl process. Where I am stuck is our containers don’t run via systemctl, but instead via shell scripts that are executed by third party deployment software.

An example:
Lets say a rabbitmq container wants to run:

The user would run
kolla-mgr deploy messaging

This would run a small bit of code to launch the docker container set for messaging.

Could pacemaker run something like

Kolla-mgr status messaging

To control the lifecycle of the processes?

Or would we be better off with some systemd integration with kolla-mgr?

Thoughts welcome

Regards,
-steve
Re: Suggestions for managing HA of containers from within a Pacemaker container? [ In reply to ]
Hello Steve,

Are you sure that Pacemaker is the right product for your project? Have you
checked Mesos/Marathon or Kubernates? Those are frameworks being developed
for managing containers.

On Sat Feb 07 2015 at 1:19:15 PM Steven Dake (stdake) <stdake@cisco.com>
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I am working on Containerizing OpenStack in the Kolla project (
> http://launchpad.net/kolla). One of the key things we want to do over
> the next few months is add H/A support to our container tech. David Vossel
> had suggested using systemctl to monitor the containers themselves by
> running healthchecking scripts within the containers. That idea is sound.
>
> There is another technology called “super-privileged containers”.
> Essentially it allows more host access for the container, allowing the
> treatment of Pacemaker as a container rather than a RPM or DEB file. I’d
> like corosync to run in a separate container. These containers will
> communicate using their normal mechanisms in a super-privileged mode. We
> will implement this in Kolla.
>
> Where I am stuck is how does Pacemaker within a container control other
> containers in the host os. One way I have considered is using the docker
> —pid=host flag, allowing pacemaker to communicate directly with the host
> systemctl process. Where I am stuck is our containers don’t run via
> systemctl, but instead via shell scripts that are executed by third party
> deployment software.
>
> An example:
> Lets say a rabbitmq container wants to run:
>
> The user would run
> kolla-mgr deploy messaging
>
> This would run a small bit of code to launch the docker container set
> for messaging.
>
> Could pacemaker run something like
>
> Kolla-mgr status messaging
>
> To control the lifecycle of the processes?
>
> Or would we be better off with some systemd integration with kolla-mgr?
>
> Thoughts welcome
>
> Regards,
> -steve
> _______________________________________________
> Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
>
> Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
>
Re: Suggestions for managing HA of containers from within a Pacemaker container? [ In reply to ]
> On 10 Feb 2015, at 1:45 pm, Serge Dubrouski <sergeyfd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello Steve,
>
> Are you sure that Pacemaker is the right product for your project? Have you checked Mesos/Marathon or Kubernates? Those are frameworks being developed for managing containers.

And in a few years they'll work out that they need some HA features and try to retrofit them :-)
In the meantime pacemaker is actually rather good at managing containers already and knows a thing or two about HA and how to bring up a complex stack of services.

The one thing that would be really interesting in this area is using the our policy engine as the kubernates scheduler.
So many ideas and so little time.

>
> On Sat Feb 07 2015 at 1:19:15 PM Steven Dake (stdake) <stdake@cisco.com> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I am working on Containerizing OpenStack in the Kolla project (http://launchpad.net/kolla). One of the key things we want to do over the next few months is add H/A support to our container tech. David Vossel had suggested using systemctl to monitor the containers themselves by running healthchecking scripts within the containers. That idea is sound.
>
> There is another technology called “super-privileged containers”. Essentially it allows more host access for the container, allowing the treatment of Pacemaker as a container rather than a RPM or DEB file. I’d like corosync to run in a separate container. These containers will communicate using their normal mechanisms in a super-privileged mode. We will implement this in Kolla.
>
> Where I am stuck is how does Pacemaker within a container control other containers in the host os. One way I have considered is using the docker —pid=host flag, allowing pacemaker to communicate directly with the host systemctl process. Where I am stuck is our containers don’t run via systemctl, but instead via shell scripts that are executed by third party deployment software.
>
> An example:
> Lets say a rabbitmq container wants to run:
>
> The user would run
> kolla-mgr deploy messaging
>
> This would run a small bit of code to launch the docker container set for messaging.
>
> Could pacemaker run something like
>
> Kolla-mgr status messaging
>
> To control the lifecycle of the processes?
>
> Or would we be better off with some systemd integration with kolla-mgr?
>
> Thoughts welcome
>
> Regards,
> -steve
> _______________________________________________
> Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
>
> Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
> _______________________________________________
> Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
>
> Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org


_______________________________________________
Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
Re: Suggestions for managing HA of containers from within a Pacemaker container? [ In reply to ]
> On 8 Feb 2015, at 7:09 am, Steven Dake (stdake) <stdake@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I am working on Containerizing OpenStack in the Kolla project (http://launchpad.net/kolla). One of the key things we want to do over the next few months is add H/A support to our container tech. David Vossel had suggested using systemctl to monitor the containers themselves by running healthchecking scripts within the containers. That idea is sound.

systemctl or pacemaker-remote in stand-alone mode?
I can imagine the latter more so than the former.

>
> There is another technology called “super-privileged containers”. Essentially it allows more host access for the container, allowing the treatment of Pacemaker as a container rather than a RPM or DEB file. I’d like corosync to run in a separate container.

Separate to even pacemaker?
My container-foo is weak... does they allow traditional IPC mechanisms between containers?

> These containers will communicate using their normal mechanisms in a super-privileged mode. We will implement this in Kolla.
>
> Where I am stuck is how does Pacemaker within a container control other containers in the host os. One way I have considered is using the docker —pid=host flag, allowing pacemaker to communicate directly with the host systemctl process. Where I am stuck is our containers don’t run via systemctl, but instead via shell scripts that are executed by third party deployment software.
>
> An example:
> Lets say a rabbitmq container wants to run:
>
> The user would run
> kolla-mgr deploy messaging
>
> This would run a small bit of code to launch the docker container set for messaging.
>
> Could pacemaker run something like
>
> Kolla-mgr status messaging
>
> To control the lifecycle of the processes?

If you wrote an RA that did so, then it can do whatever you like.
However the concept seems prone to internal split-brain given the number of entities wanting a piece of the container.

Will the containers always be in the pacemaker config or only added when someone runs 'deploy'?
How will pacemaker know when to start monitoring?
What should pacemaker do if it detects the container as failed?
How can it tell the difference between a failure and 'kolla-mgr kill messaging'?
Could pacemaker be the 3rd party that does the starting?
If so, perhaps look at the Docker agent.
If not, you will need to make sure pacemaker doesn't start health checking the container until the 3rd party has completely started it.


I'm not saying it cant work as described, I just want to understand the proposal better before I go too much further.

> Or would we be better off with some systemd integration with kolla-mgr?

systemd integration is rarely the answer :-)

>
> Thoughts welcome
>
> Regards,
> -steve
> _______________________________________________
> Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
>
> Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org


_______________________________________________
Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
Re: Suggestions for managing HA of containers from within a Pacemaker container? [ In reply to ]
----- Original Message -----
> Hi,

Hey Steve, Good to see you around :)

> I am working on Containerizing OpenStack in the Kolla project (
> http://launchpad.net/kolla ). One of the key things we want to do over the
> next few months is add H/A support to our container tech. David Vossel had
> suggested using systemctl to monitor the containers themselves by running
> healthchecking scripts within the containers. That idea is sound.

Knowing what I know about OpenStack HA now, that is a bad choice.

>
> There is another technology called “super-privileged containers”. Essentially
> it allows more host access for the container, allowing the treatment of

Yep, this is the way to do it. My plan is to have pacemaker running in a container,
and have pacemaker capable of launching resources within containers.

We already have a Docker resource agent. You can find it here,
https://github.com/ClusterLabs/resource-agents/blob/master/heartbeat/docker

Using that agent, pacemaker can launch a docker container, and then monitor
the container by performing health checks within the container. Here's an
example of how I'm using this technique to manage a containerized apache
instance.
https://github.com/davidvossel/phd/blob/master/scenarios/docker-apache-ap.scenario#L96


> Pacemaker as a container rather than a RPM or DEB file. I’d like corosync to
> run in a separate container. These containers will communicate using their


I actually already got pacemaker+corosync running in a container for testing
purposes. If you're interested you can checkout some of that work here,
https://github.com/davidvossel/phd/tree/master/lib/docker . The phd_docker_utils.sh
file holds most of the interesting parts.

> normal mechanisms in a super-privileged mode. We will implement this in
> Kolla.
>
> Where I am stuck is how does Pacemaker within a container control other
> containers in the host os. One way I have considered is using the docker
> —pid=host flag, allowing pacemaker to communicate directly with the host
> systemctl process. Where I am stuck is our containers don’t run via
> systemctl, but instead via shell scripts that are executed by third party
> deployment software.
>
> An example:
> Lets say a rabbitmq container wants to run:
>
> The user would run
> kolla-mgr deploy messaging

yes, and from there kolla-mgr hands the containers off to pacemaker to manage.

kolla is the orchestration, pacemaker is the scheduler for performing those tasks.

> This would run a small bit of code to launch the docker container set for
> messaging.
>
> Could pacemaker run something like
>
> Kolla-mgr status messaging
>
> To control the lifecycle of the processes?
>
> Or would we be better off with some systemd integration with kolla-mgr?
>
> Thoughts welcome
>
> Regards,
> -steve
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
>
> Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
>

_______________________________________________
Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
Re: Suggestions for managing HA of containers from within a Pacemaker container? [ In reply to ]
Pacemaker as a scheduler in Mesos or Kubernates does sound like a very
interesting idea. Packaging corosync into super privileged containers still
doesn't make too much sense to me. What's the reason in isolating something
and then giving it all permissions on a host machine?

On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Andrew Beekhof <andrew@beekhof.net> wrote:

>
> > On 10 Feb 2015, at 1:45 pm, Serge Dubrouski <sergeyfd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Steve,
> >
> > Are you sure that Pacemaker is the right product for your project? Have
> you checked Mesos/Marathon or Kubernates? Those are frameworks being
> developed for managing containers.
>
> And in a few years they'll work out that they need some HA features and
> try to retrofit them :-)
> In the meantime pacemaker is actually rather good at managing containers
> already and knows a thing or two about HA and how to bring up a complex
> stack of services.
>
> The one thing that would be really interesting in this area is using the
> our policy engine as the kubernates scheduler.
> So many ideas and so little time.
>
> >
> > On Sat Feb 07 2015 at 1:19:15 PM Steven Dake (stdake) <stdake@cisco.com>
> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am working on Containerizing OpenStack in the Kolla project (
> http://launchpad.net/kolla). One of the key things we want to do over
> the next few months is add H/A support to our container tech. David Vossel
> had suggested using systemctl to monitor the containers themselves by
> running healthchecking scripts within the containers. That idea is sound.
> >
> > There is another technology called “super-privileged containers”.
> Essentially it allows more host access for the container, allowing the
> treatment of Pacemaker as a container rather than a RPM or DEB file. I’d
> like corosync to run in a separate container. These containers will
> communicate using their normal mechanisms in a super-privileged mode. We
> will implement this in Kolla.
> >
> > Where I am stuck is how does Pacemaker within a container control other
> containers in the host os. One way I have considered is using the docker
> —pid=host flag, allowing pacemaker to communicate directly with the host
> systemctl process. Where I am stuck is our containers don’t run via
> systemctl, but instead via shell scripts that are executed by third party
> deployment software.
> >
> > An example:
> > Lets say a rabbitmq container wants to run:
> >
> > The user would run
> > kolla-mgr deploy messaging
> >
> > This would run a small bit of code to launch the docker container set
> for messaging.
> >
> > Could pacemaker run something like
> >
> > Kolla-mgr status messaging
> >
> > To control the lifecycle of the processes?
> >
> > Or would we be better off with some systemd integration with kolla-mgr?
> >
> > Thoughts welcome
> >
> > Regards,
> > -steve
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> > http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
> >
> > Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> > Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> > Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> > http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
> >
> > Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> > Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> > Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
>
> Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
>



--
Serge Dubrouski.
Re: Suggestions for managing HA of containers from within a Pacemaker container? [ In reply to ]
> On 25 Feb 2015, at 1:37 pm, Serge Dubrouski <sergeyfd@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Pacemaker as a scheduler in Mesos or Kubernates does sound like a very interesting idea.

Want to help make it work? :-)

> Packaging corosync into super privileged containers still doesn't make too much sense to me. What's the reason in isolating something and then giving it all permissions on a host machine?

Probably because someone realised that they wanted to container-ize the software for creating containers and nesting them was too horrible to contemplate.

>
> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Andrew Beekhof <andrew@beekhof.net> wrote:
>
> > On 10 Feb 2015, at 1:45 pm, Serge Dubrouski <sergeyfd@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Hello Steve,
> >
> > Are you sure that Pacemaker is the right product for your project? Have you checked Mesos/Marathon or Kubernates? Those are frameworks being developed for managing containers.
>
> And in a few years they'll work out that they need some HA features and try to retrofit them :-)
> In the meantime pacemaker is actually rather good at managing containers already and knows a thing or two about HA and how to bring up a complex stack of services.
>
> The one thing that would be really interesting in this area is using the our policy engine as the kubernates scheduler.
> So many ideas and so little time.
>
> >
> > On Sat Feb 07 2015 at 1:19:15 PM Steven Dake (stdake) <stdake@cisco.com> wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am working on Containerizing OpenStack in the Kolla project (http://launchpad.net/kolla). One of the key things we want to do over the next few months is add H/A support to our container tech. David Vossel had suggested using systemctl to monitor the containers themselves by running healthchecking scripts within the containers. That idea is sound.
> >
> > There is another technology called “super-privileged containers”. Essentially it allows more host access for the container, allowing the treatment of Pacemaker as a container rather than a RPM or DEB file. I’d like corosync to run in a separate container. These containers will communicate using their normal mechanisms in a super-privileged mode. We will implement this in Kolla.
> >
> > Where I am stuck is how does Pacemaker within a container control other containers in the host os. One way I have considered is using the docker —pid=host flag, allowing pacemaker to communicate directly with the host systemctl process. Where I am stuck is our containers don’t run via systemctl, but instead via shell scripts that are executed by third party deployment software.
> >
> > An example:
> > Lets say a rabbitmq container wants to run:
> >
> > The user would run
> > kolla-mgr deploy messaging
> >
> > This would run a small bit of code to launch the docker container set for messaging.
> >
> > Could pacemaker run something like
> >
> > Kolla-mgr status messaging
> >
> > To control the lifecycle of the processes?
> >
> > Or would we be better off with some systemd integration with kolla-mgr?
> >
> > Thoughts welcome
> >
> > Regards,
> > -steve
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> > http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
> >
> > Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> > Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> > Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> > http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
> >
> > Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> > Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> > Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
>
> Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
>
>
>
> --
> Serge Dubrouski.
> _______________________________________________
> Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
>
> Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org


_______________________________________________
Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
Re: Suggestions for managing HA of containers from within a Pacemaker container? [ In reply to ]
----- Original Message -----
> Pacemaker as a scheduler in Mesos or Kubernates does sound like a very
> interesting idea. Packaging corosync into super privileged containers still
> doesn't make too much sense to me. What's the reason in isolating something
> and then giving it all permissions on a host machine?

because soon everything will run in containers. Take a look at rhel atomic and
the stuff coreos is doing. The only way pacemaker will exist on those distributions
is if it lives in a super privileged container.

> On Mon, Feb 23, 2015 at 5:20 PM, Andrew Beekhof < andrew@beekhof.net > wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 10 Feb 2015, at 1:45 pm, Serge Dubrouski < sergeyfd@gmail.com > wrote:
> >
> > Hello Steve,
> >
> > Are you sure that Pacemaker is the right product for your project? Have you
> > checked Mesos/Marathon or Kubernates? Those are frameworks being developed
> > for managing containers.
>
> And in a few years they'll work out that they need some HA features and try
> to retrofit them :-)
> In the meantime pacemaker is actually rather good at managing containers
> already and knows a thing or two about HA and how to bring up a complex
> stack of services.
>
> The one thing that would be really interesting in this area is using the our
> policy engine as the kubernates scheduler.
> So many ideas and so little time.
>
> >
> > On Sat Feb 07 2015 at 1:19:15 PM Steven Dake (stdake) < stdake@cisco.com >
> > wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > I am working on Containerizing OpenStack in the Kolla project (
> > http://launchpad.net/kolla ). One of the key things we want to do over the
> > next few months is add H/A support to our container tech. David Vossel had
> > suggested using systemctl to monitor the containers themselves by running
> > healthchecking scripts within the containers. That idea is sound.
> >
> > There is another technology called “super-privileged containers”.
> > Essentially it allows more host access for the container, allowing the
> > treatment of Pacemaker as a container rather than a RPM or DEB file. I’d
> > like corosync to run in a separate container. These containers will
> > communicate using their normal mechanisms in a super-privileged mode. We
> > will implement this in Kolla.
> >
> > Where I am stuck is how does Pacemaker within a container control other
> > containers in the host os. One way I have considered is using the docker
> > —pid=host flag, allowing pacemaker to communicate directly with the host
> > systemctl process. Where I am stuck is our containers don’t run via
> > systemctl, but instead via shell scripts that are executed by third party
> > deployment software.
> >
> > An example:
> > Lets say a rabbitmq container wants to run:
> >
> > The user would run
> > kolla-mgr deploy messaging
> >
> > This would run a small bit of code to launch the docker container set for
> > messaging.
> >
> > Could pacemaker run something like
> >
> > Kolla-mgr status messaging
> >
> > To control the lifecycle of the processes?
> >
> > Or would we be better off with some systemd integration with kolla-mgr?
> >
> > Thoughts welcome
> >
> > Regards,
> > -steve
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> > http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
> >
> > Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> > Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> > Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
> > _______________________________________________
> > Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> > http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
> >
> > Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> > Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> > Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
>
> Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
>
>
>
> --
> Serge Dubrouski.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
>
> Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
>

_______________________________________________
Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
Re: Suggestions for managing HA of containers from within a Pacemaker container? [ In reply to ]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 25/02/15 04:45 PM, David Vossel wrote:
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>> Pacemaker as a scheduler in Mesos or Kubernates does sound like a
>> very interesting idea. Packaging corosync into super privileged
>> containers still doesn't make too much sense to me. What's the
>> reason in isolating something and then giving it all permissions
>> on a host machine?
>
> because soon everything will run in containers. Take a look at rhel
> atomic and the stuff coreos is doing. The only way pacemaker will
> exist on those distributions is if it lives in a super privileged
> container.

If I can respectfully disagree, or at least provide a different opinion;

I'm old enough to have seen many supposed "game changers" come and go.
Maybe containers will be different, but to simply assume so at this
stage and to base the future development of HA software on that
assumption seems ... risky.

I think there is an argument for supporting containers, sure, but not
to base plans on the assumption that they will become the be-all and
end-all.

- --
Digimer
Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/
What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without
access to education?
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_______________________________________________
Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
Re: Suggestions for managing HA of containers from within a Pacemaker container? [ In reply to ]
> On 26 Feb 2015, at 8:51 am, Digimer <lists@alteeve.ca> wrote:
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> On 25/02/15 04:45 PM, David Vossel wrote:
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> Pacemaker as a scheduler in Mesos or Kubernates does sound like a
>>> very interesting idea. Packaging corosync into super privileged
>>> containers still doesn't make too much sense to me. What's the
>>> reason in isolating something and then giving it all permissions
>>> on a host machine?
>>
>> because soon everything will run in containers. Take a look at rhel
>> atomic and the stuff coreos is doing. The only way pacemaker will
>> exist on those distributions is if it lives in a super privileged
>> container.
>
> If I can respectfully disagree, or at least provide a different opinion;
>
> I'm old enough to have seen many supposed "game changers" come and go.
> Maybe containers will be different, but to simply assume so at this
> stage and to base the future development of HA software on that
> assumption seems ... risky.
>
> I think there is an argument for supporting containers, sure, but not
> to base plans on the assumption that they will become the be-all and
> end-all.

Key phrase: "on these distros".
David's not suggesting everyone run Pacemaker like this, only people that have bought into distros that drank the container brand cool-aid (probably out of a container!).

>
> - --
> Digimer
> Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/
> What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without
> access to education?
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> _______________________________________________
> Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
> http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker
>
> Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
> Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
> Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org


_______________________________________________
Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
Bugs: http://bugs.clusterlabs.org
Re: Suggestions for managing HA of containers from within a Pacemaker container? [ In reply to ]
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 25/02/15 09:39 PM, Andrew Beekhof wrote:
>
>> On 26 Feb 2015, at 8:51 am, Digimer <lists@alteeve.ca> wrote:
>>
> On 25/02/15 04:45 PM, David Vossel wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>>> Pacemaker as a scheduler in Mesos or Kubernates does sound
>>>>> like a very interesting idea. Packaging corosync into super
>>>>> privileged containers still doesn't make too much sense to
>>>>> me. What's the reason in isolating something and then
>>>>> giving it all permissions on a host machine?
>>>>
>>>> because soon everything will run in containers. Take a look
>>>> at rhel atomic and the stuff coreos is doing. The only way
>>>> pacemaker will exist on those distributions is if it lives in
>>>> a super privileged container.
>
> If I can respectfully disagree, or at least provide a different
> opinion;
>
> I'm old enough to have seen many supposed "game changers" come and
> go. Maybe containers will be different, but to simply assume so at
> this stage and to base the future development of HA software on
> that assumption seems ... risky.
>
> I think there is an argument for supporting containers, sure, but
> not to base plans on the assumption that they will become the
> be-all and end-all.
>
>> Key phrase: "on these distros". David's not suggesting everyone
>> run Pacemaker like this, only people that have bought into
>> distros that drank the container brand cool-aid (probably out of
>> a container!).

Ah, ok then. :)

- --
Digimer
Papers and Projects: https://alteeve.ca/w/
What if the cure for cancer is trapped in the mind of a person without
access to education?
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_______________________________________________
Pacemaker mailing list: Pacemaker@oss.clusterlabs.org
http://oss.clusterlabs.org/mailman/listinfo/pacemaker

Project Home: http://www.clusterlabs.org
Getting started: http://www.clusterlabs.org/doc/Cluster_from_Scratch.pdf
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