Mailing List Archive

On Wed, 17 May 2000, Horacio MG wrote:

> I've just realized that there's been a split(?) from the mainstream
> manual development ... or some such.

This has to do with the German funding and the requirement, that we
need a German manual soon. So we have translated the manual and Peter
did some work on it and enhanced it with some paragraphs for the
computer science unaware users ;-). It is ewasy for us to do this in
German and later translate it back to English.

As soon as Peter thinks the current German version is stable, we
should start to re-translate it and discuss the content. I hope Mike
can help with that. Doing a verbatim translation might not always be
the best way (e.g. we can use osther examples in Germany tha you can
use in Spain or the U.S.).

> German is only good to ask for a glass of red wine (that's "ein glass,
> rottschwein, bitte", richtig? ;)

Better use "Rotwein" "rott-schwein" may sound a little bit like
"red-pig" (it depends on the pronunciation) :-)

> into English, fine, but it would be nicer seeing how things are marching
> and perhaps getting a snapshot (ops! forgot this is a gnu zone) every

There are so many other things to do; but if there is a volunteer to
translate the chnanges back to english and Peter agrees with thah, she
can start with it.

Werner

--
Werner Koch OpenPGP key 621CC013
OpenIT GmbH tel +49 211 239577-0
Birkenstr. 12 email wk@OpenIT.de
D-40233 Duesseldorf http://www.OpenIT.de

El mié, 17 de may de 2000, a las 10:01:04 +0200, Werner Koch dijo:
>
> This has to do with the German funding and the requirement, that we
> need a German manual soon.

Ha, so it's true that no ones gives nothing in exchange for nothing :)

> As soon as Peter thinks the current German version is stable, we
> should start to re-translate it and discuss the content. I hope Mike
> can help with that.

I don't know if Mike spoke any German. Anyway, remember de Winter? He
translated the howto from German into Spanish, may be he should be
contacted.

> Doing a verbatim translation might not always be the best way (e.g. we
> can use osther examples in Germany tha you can use in Spain or the
> U.S.).

Agreed, in which case, a German could translate into English in first
instance, even if he gets it grammatically incorrect, and then an
English put it right and so on. All this can be done here.

> > German is only good to ask for a glass of red wine (that's "ein
> > glass, rottschwein, bitte", richtig? ;)
>
> Better use "Rotwein" "rott-schwein" may sound a little bit like
> "red-pig" (it depends on the pronunciation) :-)

;) but I knew ... just trying to show what the manual could look like
in Spanish if I tried to translate directly from German ...

> There are so many other things to do; but if there is a volunteer to
> translate the chnanges back to english and Peter agrees with thah, she
> can start with it.

Umh, a [de] -> [en] translator won't be that easy to find. Well, enough
to know the project didn't split between German and The Rest of the
World.

Wim, I hope 'pserver' is working fine and you still have my key for it.
I'll commit the changes some time today. Let me know if I have to send
you my key again (0x42337AE6).

Also, could you provide me with some statistics for mirroring GnuPG
(both ftp and www), please?


Saludos,

--
Horacio Anno MMDCCLIII aUC
homega@ciberia.es Valencia - ESPAÑA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Key fingerprint = F4EE AE5E 2F01 0DB3 62F2 A9F4 AD31 7093 4233 7AE6

Hello,

On Wed, 17 May 2000, Horacio MG wrote:

> I've just realized that there's been a split(?) from the mainstream
> manual development ... or some such.

I'm currently working on the german GNU Privacy Handbook... there are some
changes and some additions to the english edition. Here's a brief account on
what was done (and what's still going on)...


there are (or will be) some new chapters:

- a foreword (like "what's cryptography good for, why GnuPG?")
- a concise chapter on legal implications (with special focus on
germany)
- a chapter on the GNU Privacy Assistant
- a glossary of acronyms and technical terms used in the book
- a bibliography (recommended books)
- a guide to further resources on the internet
- an index
- and hopefully a chapter on Mozilla/Outlook plugins
- a concise reference derived from the manpage
- the GPL
? an appendix on how to install GnuPG on different Platforms ?


the following chapters have been dropped:

- c5 (topics)
- c6 (command reference)
- c7 (options reference)


the order and (therefore) the naming scheme have been changed:

NEW OLD

foreword.sgml
concepts.sgml c2.sgml
intro.sgml c1.sgml
keymanag.sgml c3.sgml
dailyuse.sgml c4.sgml
cryptolaw.sgml
gloss.sgml
biblio.sgml


There are plenty of minor changes throughout the remaining text as well...

*** Please be aware that it is still a work in progress; not all
changes and additions have been committed, yet... ***


> I'm afraid I can NOT translate from German, I wish I could, but my
> German is only good to ask for a glass of red wine (that's "ein glass,
> rottschwein, bitte", richtig? ;)

"Ein Glass Bier, bitte" sounds better ;-)

> If whatever has been done is going to be, sooner or later, translated
> into English

That's a good idea - as soon as the german version is in (or close to) a
final stade. I'm looking forward to cooperate...

> p.s. else, I might just try a "wild translation" with the "wortenbuch"
> in hand (risky as seen earlier };)

Don't ;-)

I will post to this list as soon as there is anything important going on in
the german GPH project.


bye,

Peter

El vie, 19 de may de 2000, a las 11:51:13 +0200, Peter Neuhaus dijo:
>
> there are (or will be) some new chapters:
>
> - a foreword (like "what's cryptography good for, why GnuPG?")
> - a concise chapter on legal implications (with special focus on
> germany)
> - a chapter on the GNU Privacy Assistant
> - a glossary of acronyms and technical terms used in the book
> - a bibliography (recommended books)
> - a guide to further resources on the internet
> - an index

Fine.

> - and hopefully a chapter on Mozilla/Outlook plugins

Hopefully? While I can understand it, I wish people were given the
chance of building the book with/out that particular chapter.

> - a concise reference derived from the manpage
> - the GPL

As I understand it, the GPL has no real effect on any language but
English. In fact, translations of the GPL usually point to the English
version.

> ? an appendix on how to install GnuPG on different Platforms ?

Interesting.

> the following chapters have been dropped:
>
> - c5 (topics)
> - c6 (command reference)
> - c7 (options reference)

???

> the order and (therefore) the naming scheme have been changed:
>
> NEW OLD
>
> foreword.sgml
> concepts.sgml c2.sgml
> intro.sgml c1.sgml
> keymanag.sgml c3.sgml
> dailyuse.sgml c4.sgml
> cryptolaw.sgml
> gloss.sgml
> biblio.sgml

Really meaning here that there will be no command & options reference
chapters?

Surely I have misunderstood something here. I cannot believe all Unix
commands and options have been dropped with no replacement for them, and
instead we're getting a windoze reference.

> > If whatever has been done is going to be, sooner or later,
> > translated into English
>
> That's a good idea - as soon as the german version is in (or close to)
> a final stade. I'm looking forward to cooperate...

Cooperate? I'm afraid you will have to translate German -> English on
your own. I wish I could help, "aber, haben Sie sehen mein Deutsch ist
gleich null?" Seriously, I only can do the English -> Spanish bit.


Anyway, just my opinion but, if the Unix Command & Option chapters won't
be there anymore then I believe the "old handbook" should be allowed to
stay and farther develope aside from the new one.

> I will post to this list as soon as there is anything important going on in
> the german GPH project.

Please, do.


Saludos,

--
Horacio Anno MMDCCLIII A.U.C.
hacho@crosswinds.net Valencia - ESPAÑA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Key fingerprint = F4EE AE5E 2F01 0DB3 62F2 A9F4 AD31 7093 4233 7AE6

El dom, 21 de may de 2000, a las 07:57:38 +0200, Werner Koch dijo:
>
> > Hopefully? While I can understand it, I wish people were given the
> > chance of building the book with/out that particular chapter.
>
> SGML has these nice Marked Sections.

In that case ... :)

> > Really meaning here that there will be no command & options reference
> > chapters?
>
> We should use the regular man page here and merge Mike's command
> reference and mine. I jsut asked Peter not to translate the man page
> now but wait until everything else is done.

Ah, good. At least that's an indication that the Guide's revamp is not
geared towards windoze.

--
Horacio Anno MMDCCLIII A.U.C.
hacho@crosswinds.net Valencia - ESPAÑA
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Key fingerprint = F4EE AE5E 2F01 0DB3 62F2 A9F4 AD31 7093 4233 7AE6

On Fri, 19 May 2000, Horacio MG wrote:

> > - and hopefully a chapter on Mozilla/Outlook plugins
>
> Hopefully? While I can understand it, I wish people were given the
> chance of building the book with/out that particular chapter.

SGML has these nice Marked Sections.

> As I understand it, the GPL has no real effect on any language but
> English. In fact, translations of the GPL usually point to the English
> version.

Sure, however, we have a German translation and it will be printed in
addition to the legally binding English version.

> Really meaning here that there will be no command & options reference
> chapters?

We should use the regular man page here and merge Mike's command
reference and mine. I jsut asked Peter not to translate the man page
now but wait until everything else is done.

Werner


--
Werner Koch OpenPGP key 621CC013
OpenIT GmbH tel +49 211 239577-0
Birkenstr. 12 email wk@OpenIT.de
D-40233 Duesseldorf http://www.OpenIT.de

On Sun, 21 May 2000, Horacio MG wrote:

> Ah, good. At least that's an indication that the Guide's revamp is not
> geared towards windoze.

The goal is to keep just one source code base; and this includes the
GPH of course.

Werner

--
Werner Koch OpenPGP key 621CC013
OpenIT GmbH tel +49 211 239577-0
Birkenstr. 12 email wk@OpenIT.de
D-40233 Duesseldorf http://www.OpenIT.de

Hi,

On Fri, 19 May 2000, Horacio MG wrote:

> > - and hopefully a chapter on Mozilla/Outlook plugins
>
> Hopefully? While I can understand it, I wish people were given the
> chance of building the book with/out that particular chapter.

To broaden the acceptance of GnuPG, of course... ;-) I will stick to mutt,
for my part.

> > - a concise reference derived from the manpage
[...] ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > the following chapters have been dropped:
> >
> > - c5 (topics)
> > - c6 (command reference)
> > - c7 (options reference)
>
> ???
[...]
> Really meaning here that there will be no command & options reference
> chapters?

See above... that will be the "concise reference". IMHO it's not necessary
to have 75 pages command & options reference as in the english GPH.
As I've said before, it isn't all work done, yet.

> > > If whatever has been done is going to be, sooner or later,
> > > translated into English
> >
> > That's a good idea - as soon as the german version is in (or close to)
> > a final stade. I'm looking forward to cooperate...
>
> Cooperate? I'm afraid you will have to translate German -> English on
> your own. I wish I could help, "aber, haben Sie sehen mein Deutsch ist
> gleich null?" Seriously, I only can do the English -> Spanish bit.

Your german is getting better, though... but let's finish the german
version first... :-)

> Anyway, just my opinion but, if the Unix Command & Option chapters won't
> be there anymore then I believe the "old handbook" should be allowed to
> stay and farther develope aside from the new one.

There will be a reference. The german GPH won't be a reduced
version of the english one - rather an expanded.

bye,

Peter

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On Sun, 21 May 2000, Horacio MG wrote:
> > > Really meaning here that there will be no command & options reference
> > > chapters?
> >
> > We should use the regular man page here and merge Mike's command
> > reference and mine. I jsut asked Peter not to translate the man page
> > now but wait until everything else is done.
>
> Ah, good. At least that's an indication that the Guide's revamp is not
> geared towards windoze.

My impression is that Peter is narrowing the focus of the manual to be
more of a user's guide. So only a limited set of commands and options
will be documented in that guide. There is probably room for a developer's
guide in the future that documents all of the commands and options and
includes chapters such as the one on writing user interfaces.

I think the refocus is a good idea, by the way. The page count of the
current command reference doesn't bother me; the stylesheet just happens
to be white-space happy. What I don't like is that it documents lots
of commands and options that a normal user should not have to know about.

Mike

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