Mailing List Archive

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 7:34?AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Howdy,
>
> I took a old hand me down puter and put TrueNAS and some hard drives in
> it a good while back. Well, the drives are filling up. I wanted to add
> another drive to the pool but it appears you can't do that. With LVM,
> it is easily doable, in minutes. So, TrueNAS, while a neat tool, isn't
> going to work for how I end up doing things. Time to get a better tool.
>
> I'm wanting to install something that I can use LVM on. It's something
> I'm already familiar with and it will serve me very well. I'm thinking
> about just installing a binary based OS that is lightweight. The old
> computer isn't super powerful. It has 8GBs of memory and a 4 core CPU.
> About 15 years old I think. I don't think I'll even need a GUI really.
> I figure I'll need NFS or something so I can mount it and LVM to manage
> the drives and such. I'll also need support for encryption. I use
> sys-fs/cryptsetup and whatever tools it depends on.
>
> Since some on this list have used other distros and know what they
> support, what would you recommend? Ubuntu? Slack? I do want something
> that is fairly well maintained and will be around for a long time.
> While I could likely install something else and LVM still have my data,
> I don't want to have to learn something only to switch and learn again.
> If there is a distro that has a light GUI, that would be fine too. I
> don't recall using a GUI to use LVM or encryption tho. Still, could
> come in handy if it is really light. Odds are, I'll only start the GUI
> if I need it.
>
> Thoughts? Alan, I bet you have some ideas. :/ LOL
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)

With TrueNAS I believe you can add new disks to an existing pool, but
if your pool was RAID1 I think you're just getting more RAID1, not more
space.

The more typical TrueNAS disk change is to rotate to a larger drive, where
you decommission a 3TB drive, physically remove it, add a new 6TB drive,
then go through the same process for your second/third/fourth drives. That
process grows your space.

If you're looking for a bog simple NFS server try Ubuntu Server. It will
take you maybe 20 minutes to install and after adding the NFS stuff should
do everything you want. I do that for my Plex and NFS needs. Ubuntu
server does not include X but you can add it later if you want.

Updating Ubuntu is more or less a two command process:

sudo apt update
sudo apt upgrade

The first command where it understands what's new, and the second
where it installs it. kernel updates typically add a new kernel but
keep the current kernel as a fallback in case something goes wrong.

Adding a new program is generally a one command process, such as:

sudo apt install nfs-kernel-server

See this page for instructions on getting NFS installed and working:

https://ubuntu.com/server/docs/service-nfs

NOTE: Ubuntu is systemd so you may or may not like that

Good luck whatever you do.

Cheers,
Mark

From what I understand, TrueNAS uses ZFS, not LVM.
You can, in fact, add a vdev to an existing zpool.
https://www.reddit.com/r/zfs/comments/8za4p1/adding_vdevs_to_pool_what_happens_to_the_existing/

As for other options, any of the ones you mentioned should serve file as a
NAS.
The ad#ntage of truenas is that it is built to be an appliance that you
don't need to think about much once it's set up. If that's what you need,
it's a good choice.
If you want the option to set things up yourself and don't mind a bit more
involvement, choose any distro.

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 10:34?AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:

> Howdy,
>
> I took a old hand me down puter and put TrueNAS and some hard drives in
> it a good while back. Well, the drives are filling up. I wanted to add
> another drive to the pool but it appears you can't do that. With LVM,
> it is easily doable, in minutes. So, TrueNAS, while a neat tool, isn't
> going to work for how I end up doing things. Time to get a better tool.
>
> I'm wanting to install something that I can use LVM on. It's something
> I'm already familiar with and it will serve me very well. I'm thinking
> about just installing a binary based OS that is lightweight. The old
> computer isn't super powerful. It has 8GBs of memory and a 4 core CPU.
> About 15 years old I think. I don't think I'll even need a GUI really.
> I figure I'll need NFS or something so I can mount it and LVM to manage
> the drives and such. I'll also need support for encryption. I use
> sys-fs/cryptsetup and whatever tools it depends on.
>
> Since some on this list have used other distros and know what they
> support, what would you recommend? Ubuntu? Slack? I do want something
> that is fairly well maintained and will be around for a long time.
> While I could likely install something else and LVM still have my data,
> I don't want to have to learn something only to switch and learn again.
> If there is a distro that has a light GUI, that would be fine too. I
> don't recall using a GUI to use LVM or encryption tho. Still, could
> come in handy if it is really light. Odds are, I'll only start the GUI
> if I need it.
>
> Thoughts? Alan, I bet you have some ideas. :/ LOL
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)
>
>

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 4:57?PM Igor Semyonov <igor.semyonov42@gmail.com>
wrote:

> From what I understand, TrueNAS uses ZFS, not LVM.
> You can, in fact, add a vdev to an existing zpool.
> https://www.reddit.com/r/zfs/comments/8za4p1/adding_vdevs_to_pool_what_happens_to_the_existing/
>
> As for other options, any of the ones you mentioned should serve file as a
> NAS.
> The ad#ntage of truenas is that it is built to be an appliance that you
> don't need to think about much once it's set up. If that's what you need,
> it's a good choice.
> If you want the option to set things up yourself and don't mind a bit more
> involvement, choose any distro.
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 10:34?AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Howdy,
>>
>> I took a old hand me down puter and put TrueNAS and some hard drives in
>> it a good while back. Well, the drives are filling up. I wanted to add
>> another drive to the pool but it appears you can't do that. With LVM,
>> it is easily doable, in minutes. So, TrueNAS, while a neat tool, isn't
>> going to work for how I end up doing things. Time to get a better tool.
>>
>> I'm wanting to install something that I can use LVM on. It's something
>> I'm already familiar with and it will serve me very well. I'm thinking
>> about just installing a binary based OS that is lightweight. The old
>> computer isn't super powerful. It has 8GBs of memory and a 4 core CPU.
>> About 15 years old I think. I don't think I'll even need a GUI really.
>> I figure I'll need NFS or something so I can mount it and LVM to manage
>> the drives and such. I'll also need support for encryption. I use
>> sys-fs/cryptsetup and whatever tools it depends on.
>>
>> Since some on this list have used other distros and know what they
>> support, what would you recommend? Ubuntu? Slack? I do want something
>> that is fairly well maintained and will be around for a long time.
>> While I could likely install something else and LVM still have my data,
>> I don't want to have to learn something only to switch and learn again.
>> If there is a distro that has a light GUI, that would be fine too. I
>> don't recall using a GUI to use LVM or encryption tho. Still, could
>> come in handy if it is really light. Odds are, I'll only start the GUI
>> if I need it.
>>
>> Thoughts? Alan, I bet you have some ideas. :/ LOL
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-) :-)
>>
>>
Hi Dale,

Yes, I have ideas, quite a few.

TrueNAS is FreeBSD+ZFS and it's totally what you want because ZFS is the
shizz and fixes all problems using storage, I use it myself.
Of course you can add more drives, the command is "zpool add" and the GUI
has all the right buttons.

NFS also works, you can use any old distro, they all have the tools. So
Gentoo or Ubuntu-12.04 or current Fedora, whatever.
Do the usual - PV all the drives, add them to a VG and create an LV.
For encryption, you must decide if you want LVM to do it, or the filesystem
- choice is yours.
I would advise not to put / in that VG. Rather boot off a small drive or
USB stick then all your drives are a full PV


Alan

--
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 4:57?PM Igor Semyonov
> <igor.semyonov42@gmail.com <mailto:igor.semyonov42@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> From what I understand, TrueNAS uses ZFS, not LVM.
> You can, in fact, add a vdev to an existing
> zpool. https://www.reddit.com/r/zfs/comments/8za4p1/adding_vdevs_to_pool_what_happens_to_the_existing/
>
> As for other options, any of the ones you mentioned should serve
> file as a NAS.
> The ad#ntage of truenas is that it is built to be an appliance
> that you don't need to think about much once it's set up. If
> that's what you need, it's a good choice.
> If you want the option to set things up yourself and don't mind a
> bit more involvement, choose any distro.
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 10:34?AM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com
> <mailto:rdalek1967@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Howdy,
>
> I took a old hand me down puter and put TrueNAS and some hard
> drives in
> it a good while back.  Well, the drives are filling up.  I
> wanted to add
> another drive to the pool but it appears you can't do that. 
> With LVM,
> it is easily doable, in minutes.  So, TrueNAS, while a neat
> tool, isn't
> going to work for how I end up doing things.  Time to get a
> better tool. 
>
> I'm wanting to install something that I can use LVM on.  It's
> something
> I'm already familiar with and it will serve me very well.  I'm
> thinking
> about just installing a binary based OS that is lightweight. 
> The old
> computer isn't super powerful.  It has 8GBs of memory and a 4
> core CPU. 
> About 15 years old I think.  I don't think I'll even need a
> GUI really. 
> I figure I'll need NFS or something so I can mount it and LVM
> to manage
> the drives and such.  I'll also need support for encryption. 
> I use
> sys-fs/cryptsetup and whatever tools it depends on.
>
> Since some on this list have used other distros and know what they
> support, what would you recommend?  Ubuntu? Slack?  I do want
> something
> that is fairly well maintained and will be around for a long
> time. 
> While I could likely install something else and LVM still have
> my data,
> I don't want to have to learn something only to switch and
> learn again. 
> If there is a distro that has a light GUI, that would be fine
> too. I
> don't recall using a GUI to use LVM or encryption tho.  Still,
> could
> come in handy if it is really light.  Odds are, I'll only
> start the GUI
> if I need it. 
>
> Thoughts?  Alan, I bet you have some ideas.  :/  LOL
>
> Thanks.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-) 
>
>
> Hi Dale,
>
> Yes, I have ideas, quite a few.
>
> TrueNAS is FreeBSD+ZFS and it's totally what you want because ZFS is
> the shizz and fixes all problems using storage, I use it myself.
> Of course you can add more drives, the command is "zpool add" and the
> GUI has all the right buttons.
>
> NFS also works, you can use any old distro, they all have the tools.
> So Gentoo or Ubuntu-12.04 or current Fedora, whatever.
> Do the usual - PV all the drives, add them to a VG and create an LV.
> For encryption, you must decide if you want LVM to do it, or the
> filesystem - choice is yours.
> I would advise not to put / in that VG. Rather boot off a small drive
> or USB stick then all your drives are a full PV
>
>
> Alan
>
> --
> Alan McKinnon
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com


Is there a how to, since it is a GUI, pictures would be nice, that shows
how to add a drive?  If I can add a drive, that'll work.  My duckduckgo
searches turned up results that says I can't do that.  I found dozens of
them.  I can't find a single one that shows how to do it tho.  I'd like
to use the GUI if possible.  I've read that for TrueNAS, everything
should be done with the GUI because of the way it is setup.  I dunno.  I
just want to do it. 

I do plan to replace that drive later tho.  I have a spare drive laying
around that I can put in for now.  Later, I plan to but a 14, 16 or 18TB
drive and replace it. I notice the 18TB drive prices are getting
reasonable.  Sort of.  Will I be able to add the larger drive then
remove the old temporary one later?  If I can't, I may as well switch
now.  I only have 4 slots, three already used I think.  I have little
wiggle room in that old rig.

If this falls though, sounds like Ubuntu is the tool.  It has been
around a long time and lots of people use it so don't see it going away
anytime soon. 

Thanks, to all, for the replies.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 6:50?PM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:


> Is there a how to, since it is a GUI, pictures would be nice, that shows
> how to add a drive? If I can add a drive, that'll work. My duckduckgo
> searches turned up results that says I can't do that. I found dozens of
> them. I can't find a single one that shows how to do it tho. I'd like to
> use the GUI if possible. I've read that for TrueNAS, everything should be
> done with the GUI because of the way it is setup. I dunno. I just want to
> do it.
>
> I do plan to replace that drive later tho. I have a spare drive laying
> around that I can put in for now. Later, I plan to but a 14, 16 or 18TB
> drive and replace it. I notice the 18TB drive prices are getting
> reasonable. Sort of. Will I be able to add the larger drive then remove
> the old temporary one later? If I can't, I may as well switch now. I only
> have 4 slots, three already used I think. I have little wiggle room in
> that old rig.
>
> If this falls though, sounds like Ubuntu is the tool. It has been around
> a long time and lots of people use it so don't see it going away anytime
> soon.
>
>
On the left side pane, last item is "Guide" - docs are very thorough, they
tell you how to do it

--
Alan McKinnon
alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com

<SNIP>
>
>
> Is there a how to, since it is a GUI, pictures would be nice, that shows
how to add a drive? If I can add a drive, that'll work. My duckduckgo
searches turned up results that says I can't do that. I found dozens of
them. I can't find a single one that shows how to do it tho. I'd like to
use the GUI if possible. I've read that for TrueNAS, everything should be
done with the GUI because of the way it is setup. I dunno. I just want to
do it.
>
> I do plan to replace that drive later tho. I have a spare drive laying
around that I can put in for now. Later, I plan to but a 14, 16 or 18TB
drive and replace it. I notice the 18TB drive prices are getting
reasonable. Sort of. Will I be able to add the larger drive then remove
the old temporary one later? If I can't, I may as well switch now. I only
have 4 slots, three already used I think. I have little wiggle room in
that old rig.
>
> If this falls though, sounds like Ubuntu is the tool. It has been around
a long time and lots of people use it so don't see it going away anytime
soon.
>
> Thanks, to all, for the replies.
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)

Dale,
You've gotten good advice from everyone. However there are some issues
around how you set up the pool originally as to what you can do now.

I am leaping to the conclusion that you put in multiple hard drives and
chose 'Mirror' and not 'Stripe'. If you chose to mirror multiple drives then
adding another drive to the mirror (read RAID) isn't going to make it
larger. If you chose stripe then it will. (TTBOMK)

If you are mirrored and have a larger drive you want to add, but don't
have either a physical slot to put it in OR don't have another controller
port then you can fail/dismiss/remove 1 drive from the mirror, install your
larger drive physically and then add it to the mirror and TrueNAS will do
the formatting and data copying. However ensure you are NOT using a
shingled drive.

I ran TrueNAS for a couple of years and it worked fine, but I did have
problems with a couple of their updates not applying correctly, or at least
leaving me with error messages. I never had an operational problem but
the error messages hung around and I got tired of not knowing how to
eliminate them.

That said I eventually decided that for my simplistic home needs I was
better off with Ubuntu Server and NFS. I don't use LVM but it's supported.

If you want to manage your server with a graphics front end look into
NetData. The free version gives me pretty much everything I liked about
the TrueNAS front end and it's HTML based so I can view the server
from any of my machines.

Best of luck,
Mark

Mark Knecht wrote:
> <SNIP>
> >
> >
> > Is there a how to, since it is a GUI, pictures would be nice, that
> shows how to add a drive?  If I can add a drive, that'll work.  My
> duckduckgo searches turned up results that says I can't do that.  I
> found dozens of them.  I can't find a single one that shows how to do
> it tho.  I'd like to use the GUI if possible.  I've read that for
> TrueNAS, everything should be done with the GUI because of the way it
> is setup.  I dunno.  I just want to do it.
> >
> > I do plan to replace that drive later tho.  I have a spare drive
> laying around that I can put in for now.  Later, I plan to but a 14,
> 16 or 18TB drive and replace it. I notice the 18TB drive prices are
> getting reasonable.  Sort of.  Will I be able to add the larger drive
> then remove the old temporary one later?  If I can't, I may as well
> switch now.  I only have 4 slots, three already used I think.  I have
> little wiggle room in that old rig.
> >
> > If this falls though, sounds like Ubuntu is the tool.  It has been
> around a long time and lots of people use it so don't see it going
> away anytime soon.
> >
> > Thanks, to all, for the replies.
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > :-)  :-)
>
> Dale,
>    You've gotten good advice from everyone. However there are some issues
> around how you set up the pool originally as to what you can do now.
>
>    I am leaping to the conclusion that you put in multiple hard drives and
> chose 'Mirror' and not 'Stripe'. If you chose to mirror multiple
> drives then
> adding another drive to the mirror (read RAID) isn't going to make it 
> larger. If you chose stripe then it will. (TTBOMK)
>
>    If you are mirrored and have a larger drive you want to add, but don't
> have either a physical slot to put it in OR don't have another controller
> port then you can fail/dismiss/remove 1 drive from the mirror, install
> your
> larger drive physically and then add it to the mirror and TrueNAS will do
> the formatting and data copying. However ensure you are NOT using a 
> shingled drive.
>
>    I ran TrueNAS for a couple of years and it worked fine, but I did have
> problems with a couple of their updates not applying correctly, or at
> least
> leaving me with error messages. I never had an operational problem but 
> the error messages hung around and I got tired of not knowing how to
> eliminate them.
>
>    That said I eventually decided that for my simplistic home needs I was
> better off with Ubuntu Server and NFS. I don't use LVM but it's supported.
>
>    If you want to manage your server with a graphics front end look into
> NetData. The free version gives me pretty much everything I liked about
> the TrueNAS front end and it's HTML based so I can view the server 
> from any of my machines.
>
> Best of luck,
> Mark


I have two drives and it sees them as one larger drive.  No RAID or
anything.  At least not that I know of anyway.  To be honest, I know
very little about RAID.  Read threads on it but never used it. 

Basically, I took two drives, I think they are 8 and a 10TB but may be
something else, and it sees them as one 18TB or something like that. 
I'm wanting to add a 6TB or something to that until I can get larger
drives, maybe a better plan too. 

I was wanting to build a storage solution with a Raspberry Pi thing but
those are like looking for hair on a frog.  O_O 

Alan, I clicked that link the other day, I didn't see anything there. 
Maybe it's there but I don't know I'm looking at it.  I get confused
between what LVM terms and TrueNAS terms are what. 

Dale

:-)  :-) 

P. S.  I wish I could install LVM on that thing but it just isn't built
for that. 

>
> I have two drives and it sees them as one larger drive. No RAID or
> anything. At least not that I know of anyway. To be honest, I know
> very little about RAID. Read threads on it but never used it.
>
> Basically, I took two drives, I think they are 8 and a 10TB but may be
> something else, and it sees them as one 18TB or something like that.
> I'm wanting to add a 6TB or something to that until I can get larger
> drives, maybe a better plan too.

OK, you chose striped. That gives more space but no redundancy. If
one of those drives goes bad you probably lose everything. Better to
choose mirrored if you want your data to be safe, assuming you don't
have a second TrueNAS box or some way to back it up.

Anyway, a simple NFS server with LVM sounds like it would make
you happy, and happy is or should be what life is about, so go make
yourself happy! ;-)

But learn about and use RAID or you're dancing on the head of
a pin for reliability.

Cheers,
Mark

Mark Knecht wrote:
>
> >
> > I have two drives and it sees them as one larger drive.  No RAID or
> > anything.  At least not that I know of anyway.  To be honest, I know
> > very little about RAID.  Read threads on it but never used it.
> >
> > Basically, I took two drives, I think they are 8 and a 10TB but may be
> > something else, and it sees them as one 18TB or something like that.
> > I'm wanting to add a 6TB or something to that until I can get larger
> > drives, maybe a better plan too.
>
> OK, you chose striped. That gives more space but no redundancy. If
> one of those drives goes bad you probably lose everything. Better to
> choose mirrored if you want your data to be safe, assuming you don't 
> have a second TrueNAS box or some way to back it up.
>   
> Anyway, a simple NFS server with LVM sounds like it would make
> you happy, and happy is or should be what life is about, so go make
> yourself happy! ;-) 
>
> But learn about and use RAID or you're dancing on the head of 
> a pin for reliability.
>
> Cheers,
> Mark


If you say so.  Sounds right.  ;-)  Those drives are my backup.  Some
important things I have three copies of.  Most stuff, my copies I work
with on my main rig and then the backup copy.  Odds of both failing
should be small.  After all, the drives spend most of their time
unplugged and locked in a fire safe.  A couple really important things I
may not can replace, like family pictures, those I also have copies on
DVD or something.  It's not 100% fool proof but it is better than
nothing at all. 

I hooked the drives back up.  I'm going to try adding that drive again,
if I can figure out how it is done.  I feel like I'm looking at the
option but don't know that is it.  :/

Dale

:-)  :-) 

On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 12:33?PM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Mark Knecht wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I have two drives and it sees them as one larger drive. No RAID or
> > > anything. At least not that I know of anyway. To be honest, I know
> > > very little about RAID. Read threads on it but never used it.
> > >
> > > Basically, I took two drives, I think they are 8 and a 10TB but may be
> > > something else, and it sees them as one 18TB or something like that.
> > > I'm wanting to add a 6TB or something to that until I can get larger
> > > drives, maybe a better plan too.
> >
> > OK, you chose striped. That gives more space but no redundancy. If
> > one of those drives goes bad you probably lose everything. Better to
> > choose mirrored if you want your data to be safe, assuming you don't
> > have a second TrueNAS box or some way to back it up.
> >
> > Anyway, a simple NFS server with LVM sounds like it would make
> > you happy, and happy is or should be what life is about, so go make
> > yourself happy! ;-)
> >
> > But learn about and use RAID or you're dancing on the head of
> > a pin for reliability.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Mark
>
>
> If you say so. Sounds right. ;-) Those drives are my backup. Some
> important things I have three copies of. Most stuff, my copies I work
> with on my main rig and then the backup copy. Odds of both failing
> should be small. After all, the drives spend most of their time
> unplugged and locked in a fire safe. A couple really important things I
> may not can replace, like family pictures, those I also have copies on
> DVD or something. It's not 100% fool proof but it is better than
> nothing at all.
>
> I hooked the drives back up. I'm going to try adding that drive again,
> if I can figure out how it is done. I feel like I'm looking at the
> option but don't know that is it. :/
>
> Dale
>
> :-) :-)

You should be able to add a drive to an existing striped pool.

IIRC, because I'm not using TrueNAS at this time, you want to
look at your pool, then choose the three dots in the upper right.

In a general Google search I would start with

TrueNAS add drive to existing striped pool

I see a number of reasonable looking pages but I've never
used a striped pool so YMMV.

As for the Ubuntu Server / LVM question, why do you want
to partition a storage pool? Why not just leave it as one large
drive, place different data in different directories, and then
mount the directories over NFS as needed?

You can still do backups of each directory and you have
no restrictions on data other than running out of disk space.

Good luck,
Mark

Alan McKinnon wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 6:50?PM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com
> <mailto:rdalek1967@gmail.com>> wrote:
>  
>
> Is there a how to, since it is a GUI, pictures would be nice, that
> shows how to add a drive?  If I can add a drive, that'll work.  My
> duckduckgo searches turned up results that says I can't do that. 
> I found dozens of them.  I can't find a single one that shows how
> to do it tho.  I'd like to use the GUI if possible.  I've read
> that for TrueNAS, everything should be done with the GUI because
> of the way it is setup.  I dunno.  I just want to do it. 
>
> I do plan to replace that drive later tho.  I have a spare drive
> laying around that I can put in for now.  Later, I plan to but a
> 14, 16 or 18TB drive and replace it. I notice the 18TB drive
> prices are getting reasonable.  Sort of.  Will I be able to add
> the larger drive then remove the old temporary one later?  If I
> can't, I may as well switch now.  I only have 4 slots, three
> already used I think.  I have little wiggle room in that old rig.
>
> If this falls though, sounds like Ubuntu is the tool.  It has been
> around a long time and lots of people use it so don't see it going
> away anytime soon. 
>
>
> On the left side pane, last item is "Guide" - docs are very thorough,
> they tell you how to do it
>
> --
> Alan McKinnon
> alan dot mckinnon at gmail dot com


OK.  I got it.  I now have extra space.  I'm still seriously thinking
about using Ubuntu and LVM tho. 

I actually clicked the option once before but a warning popped up so I
thought I was doing it wrong.  This time, I ignored the error since if I
went to LVM, I'd have to erase everything anyway.  Now when I get a
larger hard drive, I get to figure that out too.  :/  Oh, creating a
vdev was the trick.  Once that is done, expand the pool.  It's one of
those, once it is done, it seems easy.  ROFL  I guess vdev is like LVMs
pv, physical volume I think it is.  Crap, using two different things
that do the same thing different is confusing.  Even that is confusing. 
O_o

Mark, it did mention it is striped.  You nailed that good.  It also said
that if one drive fails, that's bad.  :-'

Thanks to all.  Still may play with Ubuntu.  I need to find someone
buying a new puter.  lol

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Mark Knecht wrote:
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2023 at 12:33?PM Dale <rdalek1967@gmail.com
> <mailto:rdalek1967@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Mark Knecht wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > I have two drives and it sees them as one larger drive.  No RAID or
> > > > anything.  At least not that I know of anyway.  To be honest, I know
> > > > very little about RAID.  Read threads on it but never used it.
> > > >
> > > > Basically, I took two drives, I think they are 8 and a 10TB but
> may be
> > > > something else, and it sees them as one 18TB or something like that.
> > > > I'm wanting to add a 6TB or something to that until I can get larger
> > > > drives, maybe a better plan too.
> > >
> > > OK, you chose striped. That gives more space but no redundancy. If
> > > one of those drives goes bad you probably lose everything. Better to
> > > choose mirrored if you want your data to be safe, assuming you don't
> > > have a second TrueNAS box or some way to back it up.
> > >  
> > > Anyway, a simple NFS server with LVM sounds like it would make
> > > you happy, and happy is or should be what life is about, so go make
> > > yourself happy! ;-)
> > >
> > > But learn about and use RAID or you're dancing on the head of
> > > a pin for reliability.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Mark
> >
> >
> > If you say so.  Sounds right.  ;-)  Those drives are my backup.  Some
> > important things I have three copies of.  Most stuff, my copies I work
> > with on my main rig and then the backup copy.  Odds of both failing
> > should be small.  After all, the drives spend most of their time
> > unplugged and locked in a fire safe.  A couple really important things I
> > may not can replace, like family pictures, those I also have copies on
> > DVD or something.  It's not 100% fool proof but it is better than
> > nothing at all.
> >
> > I hooked the drives back up.  I'm going to try adding that drive again,
> > if I can figure out how it is done.  I feel like I'm looking at the
> > option but don't know that is it.  :/
> >
> > Dale
> >
> > :-)  :-)
>
> You should be able to add a drive to an existing striped pool. 
>
> IIRC, because I'm not using TrueNAS at this time, you want to
> look at your pool, then choose the three dots in the upper right.
>
> In a general Google search I would start with
>
> TrueNAS add drive to existing striped pool
>
> I see a number of reasonable looking pages but I've never
> used a striped pool so YMMV.
>
> As for the Ubuntu Server / LVM question, why do you want
> to partition a storage pool? Why not just leave it as one large
> drive, place different data in different directories, and then 
> mount the directories over NFS as needed?
>
> You can still do backups of each directory and you have
> no restrictions on data other than running out of disk space.
>
> Good luck,
> Mark

The way I usually do a new drive, I partition the drive and name the
partition.  That way I know something is on it. The name usually, almost
always, tells what VG it belongs too.  One reason I do that is in case
I'm replacing a drive with a new drive and I'm running cgdisk, I can be
reasonably certain I'm working on the correct drive.  If something shows
up with a label of a VG, it's not new and empty.  I tend to run smartctl
-i to, just to be sure.  Some don't partition but it's sometimes hard to
tell there is data on it.  Keep in mind, I have about a dozen drives in
use here.  It's a lot to keep up with.  Also, when I buy a drive, I put
the brand, size and last 4 or 5 digits of serial number on a piece of
paper tape.  I then stick that on the end of the drive where the
connectors are.  That way I can see exactly which is which when I am
unhooking one.  Imagine unplugging a drive thinking it has been taken
off one VG but is on another VG and the wrong one.  No telling what kind
of a hornets nest that would upset. 

As a general rule, OS drive excluded, I always add a whole partitioned
drive to either a volume group on LVM or a pool thingy on TrueNAS.  My
OS is divided but that is the only drive that isn't all one partition
and all on one VG. 

There's a method to my madness sometimes.  My biggest problem, I need to
buy about two dozen 16 or 18TB drives and have a server type thing to
put them in.  Then redo everything from scratch.  Dang that won't be
cheap.  o_O

I'm updating the backups now.  It's been a couple weeks.  Gonna be a
while.  May take overnight.

Just for fun.  Part of df -h:


Filesystem                                     Size      Used   Avail
Use%    Mounted on
/dev/mapper/home-home--lv           7.3T     1.2T   6.0T  17%     /home
/dev/mapper/datavg-datalv            28T       24T    3.3T  89%    
/home/dale/Desktop/Data
/dev/mapper/crypt                         37T       31T    5.9T  84%    
/home/dale/Desktop/Crypt


And part of pvs:


root@fireball / # pvs -O vg_name
  PV               VG        Fmt    Attr    PSize    PFree
  /dev/sdf1    crypt     lvm2   a--     14.55t     0
  /dev/sdb1   crypt     lvm2   a--     14.55t     0
  /dev/sde1   crypt     lvm2   a--     <7.28t     0
  /dev/sdh1   datavg  lvm2   a--     12.73t      0
  /dev/sdc1   datavg   lvm2  a--    <9.10t      0
  /dev/sdd1   datavg  lvm2   a--    <5.46t      0
  /dev/sdi1    home    lvm2   a--    <7.28t      0
root@fireball / #

 I have two external drives that backup some data.  I then have the
TrueNAS system that backs up other data which now has three drives. 
This sounds massive don't it?  ROFLMBO

Anyway, I got it running again.  It'll last until I can get larger
drives.  That 6TB on datavg and 8TB on crypt will likely be the next
ones I replace with larger drives.  Likely 14, 16 or 18TB depending on
deal I can find.

Thanks.

Dale

:-)  :-) 

Am Wed, Sep 06, 2023 at 02:45:11PM -0500 schrieb Dale:

> Oh, creating a
> vdev was the trick.  Once that is done, expand the pool.  It's one of
> those, once it is done, it seems easy.  ROFL

Note that people used to shoot themselves in the foot when lazily (or by
accident) adding a single disk to an existing pool. If that pool was
composed of RAID vdevs, then now they had a non-redundant single disk in
that pool and it was not possible to remove a vdev from a pool! That
single-disk vdev could only be converted to a mirror to at least get
redundancy back.

The only proper solution was to destroy the pool and start from scratch. By now there is a partial remedy, in that it is possible to remove mirror vdevs from a pool. But no RAIDs:
https://forum.level1techs.com/t/solved-how-to-remove-vdev-from-zpool/192044/5
https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/performance-when-removing-zfs-vdevs-with-zpool-remove.1481148/post-40491873
And you get some left-over metadata about the removed vdev.

> I guess vdev is like LVMs pv, physical volume I think it is.

Haven’t we had this topic before? At least twice? Including the comparison between
the three layers of LVM with their equivalent in ZFS land. ;-)

ZFS is more meant for static setups, not constantly changing disk loadouts
of varying disk sizes.

--
Grüße | Greetings | Salut | Qapla’
Please do not share anything from, with or about me on any social network.

The boss is a human just like everyone else, he just doesn’t know.

Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
> Am Wed, Sep 06, 2023 at 02:45:11PM -0500 schrieb Dale:
>
>> Oh, creating a
>> vdev was the trick.  Once that is done, expand the pool.  It's one of
>> those, once it is done, it seems easy.  ROFL
> Note that people used to shoot themselves in the foot when lazily (or by
> accident) adding a single disk to an existing pool. If that pool was
> composed of RAID vdevs, then now they had a non-redundant single disk in
> that pool and it was not possible to remove a vdev from a pool! That
> single-disk vdev could only be converted to a mirror to at least get
> redundancy back.
>
> The only proper solution was to destroy the pool and start from scratch. By now there is a partial remedy, in that it is possible to remove mirror vdevs from a pool. But no RAIDs:
> https://forum.level1techs.com/t/solved-how-to-remove-vdev-from-zpool/192044/5
> https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/performance-when-removing-zfs-vdevs-with-zpool-remove.1481148/post-40491873
> And you get some left-over metadata about the removed vdev.

That's good to see.  I'll bookmark those links for the future.  At least
this is doable.  If I do mess up, I could just start over.  It only
takes about 10 days to copy over again.  o_O 

>> I guess vdev is like LVMs pv, physical volume I think it is.
> Haven’t we had this topic before? At least twice? Including the comparison between
> the three layers of LVM with their equivalent in ZFS land. ;-)
>
> ZFS is more meant for static setups, not constantly changing disk loadouts
> of varying disk sizes.
>

We may have but being more familiar with LVM, I try to sort of make it
make sense to me.  Honestly, ZFS doesn't really make sense, yet.  My
understanding, it has two layers instead of three.  I think.  If there
was a NAS thing like TrueNAS that used LVM instead, I'd be all over it. 
I likely would have never used TrueNAS at all.  If I found one, I'd
switch faster than a lightning strike.  Even if it is done in GUI I'd
switch.  Command line would be fine by me.  Honestly, once set up and a
network is working, all I need is for it to boot, let me enter the
encryption password and me able to mount the thing from my main rig.  Of
course, shutdown when done as well. 

Then it may be best for me to consider other options. I'm always adding,
swapping out or otherwise moving things around.  That is one thing I
like about LVM.  The only thing I try to avoid, shrinking a file
system.  I use ext4 so it is doable as long as there is enough space but
still, I try to avoid it.  I may have done that once, maybe. 

At least I got it done now.  Updating my backups went faster than
expected.  Already done and drives are back in the safe.  Since I have
three drives in the little cage and little room for air flow, I added a
fan to the drive cage.  They got up to the 40's C pretty quick.  Can't
have them getting hot. 

Thanks to all. 

Dale

:-)  :-)

On 7/9/23 11:09, Dale wrote:
> Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>> Am Wed, Sep 06, 2023 at 02:45:11PM -0500 schrieb Dale:
>>
>>> Oh, creating a
>>> vdev was the trick.  Once that is done, expand the pool.  It's one of
>>> those, once it is done, it seems easy.  ROFL
>> Note that people used to shoot themselves in the foot when lazily (or by
>> accident) adding a single disk to an existing pool. If that pool was
>> composed of RAID vdevs, then now they had a non-redundant single disk in
>> that pool and it was not possible to remove a vdev from a pool! That
>> single-disk vdev could only be converted to a mirror to at least get
>> redundancy back.
>>
>> The only proper solution was to destroy the pool and start from scratch. By now there is a partial remedy, in that it is possible to remove mirror vdevs from a pool. But no RAIDs:
>> https://forum.level1techs.com/t/solved-how-to-remove-vdev-from-zpool/192044/5
>> https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/performance-when-removing-zfs-vdevs-with-zpool-remove.1481148/post-40491873
>> And you get some left-over metadata about the removed vdev.
> That's good to see.  I'll bookmark those links for the future.  At least
> this is doable.  If I do mess up, I could just start over.  It only
> takes about 10 days to copy over again.  o_O
>
>>> I guess vdev is like LVMs pv, physical volume I think it is.
>> Haven’t we had this topic before? At least twice? Including the comparison between
>> the three layers of LVM with their equivalent in ZFS land. ;-)
>>
>> ZFS is more meant for static setups, not constantly changing disk loadouts
>> of varying disk sizes.
>>
> We may have but being more familiar with LVM, I try to sort of make it
> make sense to me.  Honestly, ZFS doesn't really make sense, yet.  My
> understanding, it has two layers instead of three.  I think.  If there
> was a NAS thing like TrueNAS that used LVM instead, I'd be all over it.
> I likely would have never used TrueNAS at all.  If I found one, I'd
> switch faster than a lightning strike.  Even if it is done in GUI I'd
> switch.  Command line would be fine by me.  Honestly, once set up and a
> network is working, all I need is for it to boot, let me enter the
> encryption password and me able to mount the thing from my main rig.  Of
> course, shutdown when done as well.
>
> Then it may be best for me to consider other options. I'm always adding,
> swapping out or otherwise moving things around.  That is one thing I
> like about LVM.  The only thing I try to avoid, shrinking a file
> system.  I use ext4 so it is doable as long as there is enough space but
> still, I try to avoid it.  I may have done that once, maybe.
>
> At least I got it done now.  Updating my backups went faster than
> expected.  Already done and drives are back in the safe.  Since I have
> three drives in the little cage and little room for air flow, I added a
> fan to the drive cage.  They got up to the 40's C pretty quick.  Can't
> have them getting hot.
>
> Thanks to all.
>
> Dale
>
> :-)  :-)
>
Hi Dale,

if you are feeling bored, google "gentoo NAS" and start reading.
Example: https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki/Home_server

Home brew is the only way to go!

BillK


>

Oh, forgot to mention the "this could be you" photo in that link

:)

BillK


On 7/9/23 11:24, William Kenworthy wrote:
>
> On 7/9/23 11:09, Dale wrote:
>> Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>>> Am Wed, Sep 06, 2023 at 02:45:11PM -0500 schrieb Dale:
>>>
>>>> Oh, creating a
>>>> vdev was the trick.  Once that is done, expand the pool. It's one of
>>>> those, once it is done, it seems easy.  ROFL
>>> Note that people used to shoot themselves in the foot when lazily
>>> (or by
>>> accident) adding a single disk to an existing pool. If that pool was
>>> composed of RAID vdevs, then now they had a non-redundant single
>>> disk in
>>> that pool and it was not possible to remove a vdev from a pool! That
>>> single-disk vdev could only be converted to a mirror to at least get
>>> redundancy back.
>>>
>>> The only proper solution was to destroy the pool and start from
>>> scratch. By now there is a partial remedy, in that it is possible to
>>> remove mirror vdevs from a pool. But no RAIDs:
>>> https://forum.level1techs.com/t/solved-how-to-remove-vdev-from-zpool/192044/5
>>>
>>> https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/performance-when-removing-zfs-vdevs-with-zpool-remove.1481148/post-40491873
>>>
>>> And you get some left-over metadata about the removed vdev.
>> That's good to see.  I'll bookmark those links for the future. At least
>> this is doable.  If I do mess up, I could just start over.  It only
>> takes about 10 days to copy over again.  o_O
>>
>>>> I guess vdev is like LVMs pv, physical volume I think it is.
>>> Haven’t we had this topic before? At least twice? Including the
>>> comparison between
>>> the three layers of LVM with their equivalent in ZFS land. ;-)
>>>
>>> ZFS is more meant for static setups, not constantly changing disk
>>> loadouts
>>> of varying disk sizes.
>>>
>> We may have but being more familiar with LVM, I try to sort of make it
>> make sense to me.  Honestly, ZFS doesn't really make sense, yet.  My
>> understanding, it has two layers instead of three.  I think.  If there
>> was a NAS thing like TrueNAS that used LVM instead, I'd be all over it.
>> I likely would have never used TrueNAS at all.  If I found one, I'd
>> switch faster than a lightning strike.  Even if it is done in GUI I'd
>> switch.  Command line would be fine by me.  Honestly, once set up and a
>> network is working, all I need is for it to boot, let me enter the
>> encryption password and me able to mount the thing from my main rig.  Of
>> course, shutdown when done as well.
>>
>> Then it may be best for me to consider other options. I'm always adding,
>> swapping out or otherwise moving things around.  That is one thing I
>> like about LVM.  The only thing I try to avoid, shrinking a file
>> system.  I use ext4 so it is doable as long as there is enough space but
>> still, I try to avoid it.  I may have done that once, maybe.
>>
>> At least I got it done now.  Updating my backups went faster than
>> expected.  Already done and drives are back in the safe.  Since I have
>> three drives in the little cage and little room for air flow, I added a
>> fan to the drive cage.  They got up to the 40's C pretty quick. Can't
>> have them getting hot.
>>
>> Thanks to all.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
> Hi Dale,
>
> if you are feeling bored, google "gentoo NAS" and start reading.
> Example: https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki/Home_server
>
> Home brew is the only way to go!
>
> BillK
>
>
>>
>
>
>

William Kenworthy wrote:
>
> On 7/9/23 11:09, Dale wrote:
>> Frank Steinmetzger wrote:
>>> Am Wed, Sep 06, 2023 at 02:45:11PM -0500 schrieb Dale:
>>>
>>>> Oh, creating a
>>>> vdev was the trick.  Once that is done, expand the pool.  It's one of
>>>> those, once it is done, it seems easy.  ROFL
>>> Note that people used to shoot themselves in the foot when lazily
>>> (or by
>>> accident) adding a single disk to an existing pool. If that pool was
>>> composed of RAID vdevs, then now they had a non-redundant single
>>> disk in
>>> that pool and it was not possible to remove a vdev from a pool! That
>>> single-disk vdev could only be converted to a mirror to at least get
>>> redundancy back.
>>>
>>> The only proper solution was to destroy the pool and start from
>>> scratch. By now there is a partial remedy, in that it is possible to
>>> remove mirror vdevs from a pool. But no RAIDs:
>>> https://forum.level1techs.com/t/solved-how-to-remove-vdev-from-zpool/192044/5
>>>
>>> https://arstechnica.com/civis/threads/performance-when-removing-zfs-vdevs-with-zpool-remove.1481148/post-40491873
>>>
>>> And you get some left-over metadata about the removed vdev.
>> That's good to see.  I'll bookmark those links for the future.  At least
>> this is doable.  If I do mess up, I could just start over.  It only
>> takes about 10 days to copy over again.  o_O
>>
>>>> I guess vdev is like LVMs pv, physical volume I think it is.
>>> Haven’t we had this topic before? At least twice? Including the
>>> comparison between
>>> the three layers of LVM with their equivalent in ZFS land. ;-)
>>>
>>> ZFS is more meant for static setups, not constantly changing disk
>>> loadouts
>>> of varying disk sizes.
>>>
>> We may have but being more familiar with LVM, I try to sort of make it
>> make sense to me.  Honestly, ZFS doesn't really make sense, yet.  My
>> understanding, it has two layers instead of three.  I think.  If there
>> was a NAS thing like TrueNAS that used LVM instead, I'd be all over it.
>> I likely would have never used TrueNAS at all.  If I found one, I'd
>> switch faster than a lightning strike.  Even if it is done in GUI I'd
>> switch.  Command line would be fine by me.  Honestly, once set up and a
>> network is working, all I need is for it to boot, let me enter the
>> encryption password and me able to mount the thing from my main rig.  Of
>> course, shutdown when done as well.
>>
>> Then it may be best for me to consider other options. I'm always adding,
>> swapping out or otherwise moving things around.  That is one thing I
>> like about LVM.  The only thing I try to avoid, shrinking a file
>> system.  I use ext4 so it is doable as long as there is enough space but
>> still, I try to avoid it.  I may have done that once, maybe.
>>
>> At least I got it done now.  Updating my backups went faster than
>> expected.  Already done and drives are back in the safe.  Since I have
>> three drives in the little cage and little room for air flow, I added a
>> fan to the drive cage.  They got up to the 40's C pretty quick.  Can't
>> have them getting hot.
>>
>> Thanks to all.
>>
>> Dale
>>
>> :-)  :-)
>>
> Hi Dale,
>
> if you are feeling bored, google "gentoo NAS" and start reading.
> Example: https://wiki.installgentoo.com/wiki/Home_server
>
> Home brew is the only way to go!
>
> BillK

Mine doesn't look like that pic, yet anyway.  I have a drive cage that I
took out of a old case.  Given how hot drives used to run, I have no
idea why they packed them so tight.  Even modern drives that run cooler
still need a fan and it has no holes for one.  I know, I drilled some to
add my fan.  It ran OK with two drives but three was to much. Anyway,
since I unhook and place the drives in a safe, I just put the cage on
top of the puter and hook it up.  When done, unhook and back in the
safe.  It could start to look like that pic I guess.  lol

Those links are interesting.  That old puter was given to me by a friend
that bought a new one.  I put more memory in it and a little bigger CPU
cooler but installing Gentoo on that thing would be time consuming even
with no GUI stuff.  I'd want to watch the temps to make sure it can
handle that too.  It's a quad core CPU running at 2.4GHz I think.  It's
a old Dell.  It's maxed out on memory.  That tells you something right
there.  LOL  If I switch to something I can use LVM on, it will likely
be Ubuntu.  Sounds easy enough. 

If I can ever build me a new rig, I'm going to recycle my current rig
into a NAS or something like it.  I just need to get around to building
a new rig, or the Raspberry things become available again.  That would
be neat there. 

I got to much stuff going on. :/

Dale

:-)  :-)