Mailing List Archive

Gentoo Handbook versus x86 Quick Install Guide
Hi,

in the x86 Quick Install Guide [1] it is stated under "Code
Listing 2.38: Last edit of make.conf":
--snip--
You might want to recompile your whole system twice to make full use of
your latest configuration changes. It would take quite a long time to
complete and yield minimal speed benefits. It is recommended that you
let your system optimise itself gradually over time when new versions of
packages are released.
--end of snip--

Two remarks:
1.) The phrase "recompile your whole system twice" implicates (at least
for me) "emerge -e system && emerge -e system", while I read on the dev
list about the stage1-discussion [2], that it is recommend to do "emerge
-e world && emerge -e world && emerge --depclean", when you change your
compile options (well yes, and USE flags).

2.) In chapter "5.e. Configuring the Compile Options" [3] of the
Handbook there is nothing written comparing to this.


In the next Code Listing "Code Listing 2.39: Update your packages" of
the x86 Quick Install Guide there are some recommendations, what you
should, when you update your system:
--snip--
[...]
emerge libtool
[...]
etc-update
[...]
perl-cleaner all
[...]
python-updater
[...]
--end of snip--

Again you can find nothing about these recommendations in the handbook
in chapter "1.c. Maintaining Software" [4]. On the other hand you find
there the advise to run "emerge --depclean" and revdep-rebuild" after an
update of your complete system.


Any thoughts about this?
I think, both (handbook and guide) should be made consistent with each
other, with the handbook including some more informations about why you
should do this and that.

Regards,
Marc


[1] http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/gentoo-x86-quickinstall.xml
[2]http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.gentoo.devel/33290/match=decision+remove+stage1+2+installation+documentation
[3]http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=1&chap=5#doc_chap5
[4]http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/handbook/handbook-x86.xml?part=2&chap=1#doc_chap3
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Re: Gentoo Handbook versus x86 Quick Install Guide [ In reply to ]
On Thursday 06 July 2006 10:37, Marc Blumentritt wrote:
> Hi,

> Two remarks:

Hi,

One remark.
Please report it as a bug assigned to docs-team@gentoo.org in the
bugs.gentoo.org.

with regards,

Łukasz Damentko
Re: Gentoo Handbook versus x86 Quick Install Guide [ In reply to ]
Hi,

Marc Blumentritt schrieb:
>
> Any thoughts about this?
> I think, both (handbook and guide) should be made consistent with each
> other, with the handbook including some more informations about why you
> should do this and that.
>

one week and no answer, so perhaps I did something wrong? If I offended
in my post anyone, than sorry, I did not intend this in any way.

On the other hand, if you all think, that it is just not worth to answer
to my post, because of the insignificant content of it, I try to
convince you that this is not the case ;-)

Ok, why did I post about these differences in Handbook and Quick Installer?

I'm using Gentoo since Release 2005.0 and it was the documentation and
the step-by-step installation, which pushed me over to Gentoo. Why?
Because I wanted to learn more about how Linux is working and with
Gentoo I could (and still can) learn a lot! Before Gentoo I never
compiled anything before. I did not know anything about this mysterious
Toolchain and gcc. OK, I knew, that a compiler was creating binaries
from source code, but that's all. This changed by working with Gentoo. I
was one of the guys, who happily broke thier system with the gcc-3.4
upgrade (because I missed the upgrade guide). After resurrecting my
system, I decided to learn more about this Toolchain. I stumbled over a
lot of posts on the Forums, which were promoting "emerge -e system &&
emerge -e system && emerge -e world && emerge -e world" or
"emerge-wrappers" scripts for upgrading your system after changes of the
toolchain. For some time I believed, this was the way to go. But
recently I read in different places about opposing opinions, so I again
started to look for some official Gentoo guides containing anything
about this topic. This was the first time I read the Qick Install Guide
and I was surprised, that it stated more small informations than the
Handbook.

So here comes the answer to my own question: I wrote my post, because I
think, the handbook should contain every Informationen about installing
and maintaining yor Gentoo system. And this should be done with some
background explanations. The handbook is already great (really, thank
you all for this great guide), but the Quick Install guide contains more
informations about two topics (changing compile options and upgrading
your system), which are crucial. I wrote about this in my first post
without all my background thoughts you just (hopefully) read, because I
did not want to bore you with them, so I will stop right now!

Thanks for reading and any comments are welcome (I hope, there are some).
Regards,
Marc


P.S.: I'm still looking for more informations about toolchain handling
in Gentoo...
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Re: Re: Gentoo Handbook versus x86 Quick Install Guide [ In reply to ]
Hi,

I think things are quite quiet here at the moment. Holyday times etc :)
It is possible that they haven't read it yet :)

regards

Maurits

Op 14-jul-2006, om 10:31 heeft Marc Blumentritt het volgende geschreven:

> Hi,
>
> Marc Blumentritt schrieb:
>>
>> Any thoughts about this?
>> I think, both (handbook and guide) should be made consistent with
>> each
>> other, with the handbook including some more informations about
>> why you
>> should do this and that.
>>
>
> one week and no answer, so perhaps I did something wrong? If I
> offended
> in my post anyone, than sorry, I did not intend this in any way.
>
> On the other hand, if you all think, that it is just not worth to
> answer
> to my post, because of the insignificant content of it, I try to
> convince you that this is not the case ;-)
>
> Ok, why did I post about these differences in Handbook and Quick
> Installer?
>
> I'm using Gentoo since Release 2005.0 and it was the documentation and
> the step-by-step installation, which pushed me over to Gentoo. Why?
> Because I wanted to learn more about how Linux is working and with
> Gentoo I could (and still can) learn a lot! Before Gentoo I never
> compiled anything before. I did not know anything about this
> mysterious
> Toolchain and gcc. OK, I knew, that a compiler was creating binaries
> from source code, but that's all. This changed by working with
> Gentoo. I
> was one of the guys, who happily broke thier system with the gcc-3.4
> upgrade (because I missed the upgrade guide). After resurrecting my
> system, I decided to learn more about this Toolchain. I stumbled
> over a
> lot of posts on the Forums, which were promoting "emerge -e system &&
> emerge -e system && emerge -e world && emerge -e world" or
> "emerge-wrappers" scripts for upgrading your system after changes
> of the
> toolchain. For some time I believed, this was the way to go. But
> recently I read in different places about opposing opinions, so I
> again
> started to look for some official Gentoo guides containing anything
> about this topic. This was the first time I read the Qick Install
> Guide
> and I was surprised, that it stated more small informations than the
> Handbook.
>
> So here comes the answer to my own question: I wrote my post,
> because I
> think, the handbook should contain every Informationen about
> installing
> and maintaining yor Gentoo system. And this should be done with some
> background explanations. The handbook is already great (really, thank
> you all for this great guide), but the Quick Install guide contains
> more
> informations about two topics (changing compile options and upgrading
> your system), which are crucial. I wrote about this in my first post
> without all my background thoughts you just (hopefully) read,
> because I
> did not want to bore you with them, so I will stop right now!
>
> Thanks for reading and any comments are welcome (I hope, there are
> some).
> Regards,
> Marc
>
>
> P.S.: I'm still looking for more informations about toolchain handling
> in Gentoo...
> --
> gentoo-doc@gentoo.org mailing list
>

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Re: Gentoo Handbook versus x86 Quick Install Guide [ In reply to ]
Maurits Lamers schrieb:
> Hi,
>
> I think things are quite quiet here at the moment. Holyday times etc :)
> It is possible that they haven't read it yet :)
>
Ah, ok, have not thought about this...

Bye
Marc
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Re: Gentoo Handbook versus x86 Quick Install Guide [ In reply to ]
Lukasz Damentko schrieb:
> On Thursday 06 July 2006 10:37, Marc Blumentritt wrote:
>> Hi,
>
>> Two remarks:
>
> Hi,
>
> One remark.
> Please report it as a bug assigned to docs-team@gentoo.org in the
> bugs.gentoo.org.

OK. I didn't consider this as a bug, but more as something to discuss
on. I will report this as a bug ASAP.

Regards,
Marc
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gentoo-doc@gentoo.org mailing list
Re: Re: Gentoo Handbook versus x86 Quick Install Guide [ In reply to ]
Marc Blumentritt wrote:
> Lukasz Damentko schrieb:
>> On Thursday 06 July 2006 10:37, Marc Blumentritt wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> Two remarks:
>> Hi,
>>
>> One remark.
>> Please report it as a bug assigned to docs-team@gentoo.org in the
>> bugs.gentoo.org.
>
> OK. I didn't consider this as a bug, but more as something to discuss
> on. I will report this as a bug ASAP.
>
> Regards,
> Marc

Quick guide is targeted at seasoned users and suggests switching to ~x86.
Handbook is targeted at all users n00b included and will not consider ~arch
unless it's critical to do so.

Cheers,
--
/ Xavier Neys
\_ Gentoo Documentation Project
/
/\ http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/
Re: Gentoo Handbook versus x86 Quick Install Guide [ In reply to ]
Xavier Neys schrieb:
> Quick guide is targeted at seasoned users and suggests switching to ~x86.
> Handbook is targeted at all users n00b included and will not consider ~arch
> unless it's critical to do so.

Yes, I read this, but I do not think, that my post is connected to using
~arch. Please correct, if I'm wrong.

My first remark is about changing the march option. I realize now, that
I did not write this in my post (sorry, my fault), but if you look at
the quoted part in the Quick Install guide, the code listing 2.38 marks
the march option in blue and I thought (and still think) the "rebuild
twice" statement is about changing your march.

The second remark is about the commands you should do after a world
update, so again I do not see a ~arch connection.

Regards,
Marc
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